₦airaland Forum

Osagyefo98:
Stupid thread

Someone will just disguise himself into another ethnic Facebook group just to be constituting nuisance.

What sort of useless and inferiority complex is this?

Others are having issues and sorting themselves out, another person is drinking paracetamol on their head?

Most of these people don't even know their community have Facebook groups but are fixated on other people's thought.

Even at that what I read is amadabo which is still subservient to Amayanabo.

Every Ruler be it smallest In a clan has its palace.

You guys should let others have their peace and stop meandering with the mindset they will fight to disagreement.

#spits.... senseless thread and fictious imaginations.

Hmmm things are becoming clearer.

Anonymous15:
They have come again....
419ers
They have resumed their stupidity this year.

So you are still here. How is Nembe our Igbo brothers.

Ekealterego:
Someone called out this revisionist more than 10 years ago.
Bkayy, Slayerforever

This is really not a recent issue

The summary of all these is that Ijaw will get tired. If Finima want to carry their Ijaw way of life and go then let them go, so they can stop armtwisting others into embracing the Ijaw way of life.


Umuigbo don't stop discussing Bonny and Opobo till Ijaw row their canoes away from those two areas.

While you can argue about what Amadabo means and the superiority of the word. This is what the Brown people think of their leader. Observe the HRH.

Ideally no other chief or head of district or whatever should bear HRH.

This same affront happened last month when Alagbariya house suddenly added royal to their house flag, making it Alagbariya Royal House. Pepple personally asked for them to bring down the flag which they refused. So he asked his palace guys to retrieve the flag which they did and handed to Pepple. Till today that flag is yet to be seen.

Why add Royal to their house name. They want to overthrow the king?

The Alagbariya house later walked out of the event.



That evening in Bonny groups the admins deactivated the comments from too much bad blood on the page that day. It turns out even Halliday wants to rule Bonny too. One Halliday girl openly asked Pepple when he will come down from the throne. That he has been ruling for 25 years.

This guy is beginning to suspect something fishy about Alagoa and co.

BKayy:
Did Finima give any particular reasons for their autonomy?

I won't be happy if this was done as a bait for violence.

Money is at the centre of it. They don't want to share money with any other part of the island because the oil plant, seaport and all that is in their zone.

Secondly, they feel Pepple is not Ibani enough! The Dagogo girl was saying yesterday everywhere in Bonny Igbo Igbo Igbo. That they're sick of it. That they will go as Finima and do Ibani things to the fullest . I'm looking for that comment I'm hoping she hasn't deleted it!

mrvitalis:
That's an amadabo not Amayanabo it's shows they are still loyal to the Amayanabo of bonny

Come back when their is an Amayanabo of finima

Amadabo is equivalent to what we call Nze in Igbo land

Did you see the first picture on the thread. His royal highness.

Do you know that is what even started the fight.

BKayy:
I noticed the resurgence of Igbo consciousness amongst Bonny people in recent months.

You think it's easy to pretend you are Ijaw when your chi is laughing at you everyday

Look at what Brown are using Pepple to do.

Alagoa and IYC in the mud

The Finima people gave this Pepple boy sleepless night yesterday.

This one is trying to sue for peace. But he spoilt everything by ending with a language even King Pepple doesn't understand.

mrvitalis:
That's an amadabo not Amayanabo it's shows they are still loyal to the Amayanabo of bonny

Come back when their is an Amayanabo of finima

Amadabo is equivalent to what we call Nze in Igbo land

I will shock you my brother. Just wait for one pix I will upload here.

First paragraph. Okwu nkasi obi

This clown is begging for history lessons now Brown house has seceded. I thought they don't want to learn before

Can you imagine this grown man is begging for others to tell him his history. Who do this boy this thing

Attached picture. Pepple and Brown house come at each other.

The Finima girl calls the Pepple guy an Ibo boy insultively. Can you imagine The boy doesn't dull at all. He fires her back

In that picture you will observe that they didn't use the Amanyanabo title but rather Amadabo. Amadabo is just another name for a king.

This move is to show that they don't want to be ruled by Pepple anymore. They are complaining that Pepple is allowing Igbo to flourish in Bonny so they have seceded to do their Ibani Ijaw things. More pictures from Bonny group.


You can see the comment of the guy in the picture. They are taunting the king and Pepple house.

After relentless spells of attacks on Ijaws by Igbo nationalists the Ijaw are now in disarray. You will recall that Umuigbo have been telling Ijaws to get their hands off Bonny.

Well, we are happy to announce that the heat is reaching IYC in their propaganda room. They have advised the Brown house of Finima to secede from Bonny and found their own kingdom with their own king.

Ladies and gentlemen as I'm talking to you Finima has just installed a king. Pictures attached for your viewing pleasure.

Ekealterego:
The earliest written record of Andonni was written by Barbot. Check out the Barbot book that I sent you one time.

James Barbot visited "Dony" and described what he saw there. Captain Adams was the second person that visited, 1823. Crow's work 9 years later draws heavily from Adams.

Then later, Clarke and Oldfield at same time with the Lander Brothers.

Hmm

Ekealterego:
Yes, Obolo is obviously Ibibiod (Lower Cross), it was ChinenyeN who claimed that the name for the Andonnis (Obolo people in Rivers state) came from Ijaws.
Yes, Obolo got some Igbo influence too, especially, Andonni. Possibly Aro or Anam.
Their word for One is "ge" or some say, "nge". and three as Ita. Same with many groups in Abia, like Aro, some Bende etc.

The influence on these examples could also be the other way around.

Their language is too close to Ibibiod for them to have been Igbos. Also considering that Obolo territory continues far into Akwa Ibom state.

The Igbo influence is likely Ndoki. Ndoki also founded Okrika before Ijaw expansion happened. Check this screenshot.

okeyglm:
this is work ohanaeze ndi Igbo is supposed to be doing. bringing together all the Igbo speaking areas but unfortunately they not interested in that.

We have now gone underground to do things ourselves. The opening post is a testament to the fact work is going on behind the scenes.

Later on another thread we will all see together just how deep our pro Igbo arguments are hitting the Ijaw camp.

Ekealterego:
Always writing one Ijawcentric Alagoa inspired rubbish.

Andonni is not shredded in mystery or illusioned in Secrecy. The wars with Bonny and the culture featured as well as any other group on the coast.

The earliest recording of Andonni was Dony (by James Barbot in 1699).
We assume that Barbot wrote Igbos as Hickbaus and Okrika as Creeka. So, let's leave that aside.

However, let's move further the next generation of literatures/history of Andonni, Captain John Adams (1823) or Crow (1831) to Clarke who recorded their language (a few years after Crow) to the Lander brothers, Oldfield and Laird and Baikie, they all recorded an penned down the A in Andonni.

Their language recorded and their people seen as an extention of the Mokos (Mocoes) i.e Ibibiods, Ogonis (to some extent etc. Andonni people did not have any business with "Ijaw" as it was known then. Obolo rather is the centre point from Efik to the east, to Ogbia (not the political ijaw Ogbia) to the west.

One cannot deny that the Andonnis are one of the founding group or related with the Abuas up until Ogbia and occupied many places that is known as Brass today, who still maintain a native Obololike language (not in any way Ijaw or Ijoid)

Talking of Etymology, the natives spelt out their names quite well to Barbot and later to John Adams and Clarke or even later Oldfield and Baikie.

Clarke, recorded words with I, like "Ibo", Igede, and the others, so letter "I" was never his problem.

If anything, going by spelling conventions then, A was added to N in some cases, or "un" in place of "N" like Ungwa (Koelle).
There is no way on this earth, I would have gone missing from Andonni, rather, the other possible name would be "Ndonni", a letter "N" less than what Barbot spelt as "Dony".

That's how you expressed that Ndoki was generated from an Ijaw word, following Alagoa's fraudulent imagination.

Is Obolo's ancestry in doubt? Surely not.

Obolo are obviously Ibibiod with a mix of Igbo. It's plausible to have one or two brass features but that's as far as brass goes in Obolo.

ChinenyeN:
https://www.nairaland.com/6490424/how-correct-igbo-dialect-grouping

Ahhhhhh interesting thread.

ChinenyeN:
Oh, trust me, I recall. We had quite a nice and revealing conversation a while back about language, ancestry and how to delineate the surviving speech forms. It showed just how obstinate you could be until you do your own research that confirms something. I don't know if you recall. So I'm not surprised, hence why I'm choosing now to simply leave it as it is and allow you the space and time needed to research for your own sake.

*Thinking*

I can't recall at the moment. I will check my history.

ChinenyeN:
That depends on two things. 1) How much energy I have for the day, 2) How indefensible your statements may be. Other than that, for the most part, I haven't nitpicked at much of what you've said. Only one specific thing (i.e. Agbaye). Everything else I've given you kudos for, but of course, this is how you chose to remember our interaction.

Lol

ChinenyeN:
The same Hugh Crow who's memoir was written and published 20 years after Robertson provided "St Anthony", making him an even less reliable source on this matter. That is who you are sticking with? You're chosing to stick to something so indefensible? In that case, I guess there is nothing more to be said to you then. You're clearly choosing to be obstinate, so I will simply leave it at that. We can return to the topic at hand so I can see your compilation and interpretations regarding Bonny culture.

Yes I'm obstinate and not easily convinced. You should have figured by now.


The culture chapter will be ready maybe in 2 days. I'm not chanced now to write it.


I'm sure you'll be here to argue as usual

ChinenyeN:
SlayerForever, I will respond to you, since you continue to show that I can give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now, let me ask, are you aware of where the "Anthony" comes from? Are you aware of the earliest recorded instance that the academia has been able to verify for "Anthony"? It is the 19th century, specifically in the "Notes of Africa" written by G. A. Robertson. Robertson's voyage (and the notes and map he produced) were mostly written in 1810s and published by 1819. I have full text copies of both the Notes of Africa and the writing regarding the voyage. They're sitting in my DropBox, if you'd like me to share.

It is in Robertson's map that the academia is able to verify the earliest use of "St Anthony" with respect to the river, which Robertson himself explicitly notes as being called "Andoney" by Europeans. You can see it on page 305. There are a number of things to note/observe about both Robertson and his statement.

1. Robertson was from England. To believe that Andoni was derived from Anthony would mean to believe that an English man would be both the first person to offer "Anthony" and also corrupt it to Andoni. I don't know about anyone else, but it would make no sense that someone would offer both the first noted instance of "St Anthony" and in the same work, corrupt it to Andoni.

2. Thanks to Robertson's own notes and writings about his own voyage, we know that #1 above (Andoni derived from Anthony) could not possibly be correct. Robertson's statements on page 305 of his Notes on Africa are rather clear. Basic English comprehension tells us that the clause "called by Europeans Bonny and Andoney" suggests Andoney to have been the preferred nomenclature at the time, and the usage of "St Anthony" perhaps his own introduction.

3. We can be relatively sure of the conclusion in #2 above (that he likely introduced St. Anthony), because the academia has found no maps prior to his time that mention "St Anthony". In fact, the previous map (done by James Barbot, 1699 - over a hundred years before Robertson's time) uses "Rio Dony" (a.k.a The River Dony).

What does all this mean? Andoni (Andoney) predates Anthony. Dony predates Andoney. It is well-established in the traditions of Obolo people that the Ijaw are the ones specifically known to refer to them as "Idoni", from which Barbot derived "Dony". By what basis would Barbot have had to refer to the Obolo as "Dony" and the river as "Rio Dony"? Both of these exist explicitly in Ijaw and Obolo oral traditions as "Idoni" and "Idontoro" (Idoni River) respectively.

So no, Andoni is not derived from "Anthony". In short, it is indefensible to make such a claim when both oral traditions and European voyage records indicate otherwise.

It is yet an Englishman in the person of Crow that said it is Anthony and I'm sticking with that.

There are historical documents that show that on interview of the obolo people they could not proffer a meaning to the name Andoni. It appeared foreign.

For the Idoni I haven't come across it. The closest you're getting to something verifiable is the name Igoni still in use today by the Kalabari and co. That name is what they called the Ogoni people for being on good terms and it stuck. Until I get a very concrete varying view from what I've shared, any other thing is easy to dismiss for me my dear sister.

Fejoku:
Andoni was derived from Idoni. This is correct. They have no single connection with Ijaws though.
I've noticed that the boundary between the Andonis and Kalabari seems to be a melting pot of different ethnicities. Ogu-Bolo lga specifically has some names of communities that's suggestive of Igbo settlements. I'll like others to investigate that area too.

Kalabari has no boundary with Andoni though. Ogu Bolo to the north, yes. But Kalabari no.

As for Andoni, Andoni is simply Anthony. Crow mentioned so. It appears to be a name some explorers used to denote the area.

If Bonny has been Igbo populated logic says Ogu Bolo will likely be too. Even Andoni is part Igbo. Ndoki and some Aro dominated that area of the coast up to New Kalabar.

ChinenyeN:
SlayerForever, please continue on with the thread. I'm interested in seeing the cultural materials you've compiled as well as what your interpretations (and basis for interpretation) are (will be) concerning the cultural materials.

We are here together. When complete I will post as due.

ChinenyeN:
I would encourage you to do some research then. It is well-corroborated within the eastern delta and environs by Igbo-speaking, Ijaw-speaking, Ogoni-speaking, Obolo-speaking and Ibibio/Efik-speaking people’s that “Andoni” is derived from “Idoni”.


Help me understand your statement here. Is this your answer to my earlier inquiry about why you based your analysis off of the presence of the name Agbaye in Opobo?


We all know writers are free to offer up whatever interpretation they so choose, but it doesn’t change the fact that interpretations are left indefensible when writers are not able to sufficiently state the basis of such interpretations or offer up any shred of insight into the linguistic, cultural, social, political, etc context that informed their interpretation. It will get tossed out by anyone who takes half a moment to scrutinize it.

For instance, I’ve inquired about your interpretation regarding Agbaye, but aside from the quote above (in which you mention Alagbanye as well as Opobo as likely ancestors provided to A. G. Leonard), you’ve done little to nothing to sufficiently explain the context that informed the basis of your Agbaye analysis.

I even tried to lend you a hand by exposing the phenomenon of a time-worn name before giving the rest of my response in one of my previous posts. I was looking to see if perhaps it was what you needed to explain the relationship between Alagbariye and Agbaye (my thought was that perhaps you did not have the right words before to explain it). For example, if you were to say that you chose Agbaye, because you discovered it is a time-worn name for the founding ancestor that is still preserved in Ubani (Bonny and Opobo) oral traditions, then we could have had some place to begin. However, nothing of the sort was rendered by you, except to equate Agbayi with Agbaye, which we have shown to not even be equated by Opobo people themselves. This renders the Agbayi/Agbaye basis indefensible.

Look, I actually like this thread you have here, and for the most part, you have some defensible material here. So you’re doing good work, for the most part, and I want you to keep doing it. However, this particular indefensible part leaves a hole in the discussion that (if not plugged up) could potentially render the entire thread as circumstantial. It will in effect get tossed out, because anyone who takes half a moment to assess will discover the inability to defend the Agbayi/Agbaye basis.

Anyhow, maybe I have let this interaction go on for too long. I’ll sit back and try to enjoy the rest of the thread as you compile your information.

How many writers who said Ndoki came from Isedeni or Ebeni-toru in the central Delta have had their spurious claims thrown out. How many can defend such. Write yours. And I write mine. Surely you know everyone can hold their scholarly opinion.


Andoni is not Idoni. Andoni is simply Anthony. I'm sure you are appreciative. You can thank me later.

Lalasticlala