₦airaland Forum

GeneralDae:
You are not dealing with my points, you are just giving me same old theology in mainstream christianity and all you heard from your Pastor.

The bible said all men shall be judged according to their deeds, it never says they are judged solely for not receiving christ. Prove to me otherwise. Besides to receive christ is to obey his teachings. Matthew 25v31-46 tells us how God judged the goats who were separated from the sheep, they went to Hellfire for not showing love, not on whether they received christ or not. Besides, what does it even mean to receive christ if not to obey his teachings?

I am not asking why righteous people die, I am simply saying it contradicts your theory that physical death is the ultimate punishment for earthly crimes. If it is, then why does God still judge the souls of the dead for their earthly crimes according to the book of Revelation?

I am not here to argue religion with you. Hence I will only address questions which are in line with the initial post you are responding to.

There is no where I said physical death was the ultimate punishment for sin. Remove the word physical and you are on point. Death is the punishment for sin.

The first is the physical death which everyone of us will taste if Jesus doesn't come now. I have explained to you why we all will die a physical death ( Adam's sin). Either a human dies from getting old or dies from other causes, death is death.

Now the second death will come after Jesus Christ's judgement.

What will christ's judgement be all about?

First those who have recieved, accepted and believed him while they were still alive will be automatically saved irrespective of their deeds ( and punishment on earth )before they received him .

Those who didnt recieve him before their physical death are condemned already. It doesn't matter their deeds.
They are already condemned for Adam's sin before they were born. No need talking of what they did after growing older.

GeneralDae:
sotall



Do you have proof for this? that with God all sins are equal? and please don't tell me you got this from the book of James, James never said all sins are equal in terms of God's punishment. He was only telling us not to be Hypocrites when keeping the law or by selecting what law to keep or not to keep, since it was thesame God who gave them all. The bible never said all sins are equal in terms of punishment else there would be no need for God to judge all men according to their deeds.


But in this world all men die. If you read matthew 25v31-46, the people who want to hell in that passage were judged for not feeding the hungry and taking care of the helpless. They knew what to do and did not do it, and it was counted against them as sin. So in that sense people are still judged by God even after death for the wrongs they do in this world, because as we know even Pastors and Popes die.



The thief on the cross was to be with jesus that day in paradise, the bible never said he is in heaven yet. Besides Jesus later left paradise in the grave, went to preach to the spirits in hades and afterwards resurrected. Only after 40 days did he ascend to heaven, yet the thief remained in paradise for all we know. Read your bible.
If death is the only earthly punishment, then why does God still judge people when they die, for the sins they committed on earth? If they have already being judged by dying e.g the book of Revelation says they are judged according to their deeds.


Anybody can say prayer to receive christ but only works of righteousness demonstrates the faith of that person. The judgement in Matthew 25v31 against those who go to hell was not about receiving christ but was about works.



This makes no sense from the bible. The judgement of God according to book of revelation as well as Matthew 25 was based on the earthly deeds of men, not based on just receiving christ, so that contradicts your theory that death only was sufficient as punishment for earthly crimes.


But even the judgement of the second death is still based on our deeds according to the bible.

You are arguing for arguing sake.

Right from the the time Adam committed sin, all humans born from sex lost eternal life. Man dying when he gets old is as a result of sin, likewise all sickness and disease also came as a result of that sin.

So the reason we still die (physical death)is because of that sin by Adam.


That's what Christ came to correct so that we can gain back what Adam lost i.e eternal life.


Now until Christ's second coming, both the righteous and sinners that have died will remain where they are. It's when he comes there will be a resurrection and then judgement.

So stop asking why righteous people still die.

Also I want you to understand that even if a man doesn't commit any sin at the moment but fails to receive Jesus and acknowledge his sacrifice for man, he is condemned.

That's the point you need to get. Getting eternal life through Jesus is all about accepting and believing him and is not about your righteousness.

If you are righteous without Christ, you are condemned.

GeneralDae:
Thank you jarry. The preaching that one can just simply ask for forgiveness on their deathbed and they gain it all at that moment is a strange one to me.

Also I wonder what faith is, without works of righteousness to show for it.

Our righteousness doesn't save us. Only faith that Christ died for our sins saves us.

What works do you expect from a man on a sick bed than the man praying and believing that Christ died for his sins?

If you receive Christ and you still have life on earth , then continue in your righteousness and there is a great reward for it apart from eternal life which you get by believing in Jesus.

Saying one who doesn't do works cant get saved is a wrong teaching.

GeneralDae:
sotall


Where do you get this from? Even Paul in the epistles tells you that whatever a man sows he would reap, even after Jesus had died. Even if we ignore Paul, where in the gospels did Jesus teach that his sacrifice is superior to the law of reaping and sowing ( a universal law)? Even Jesus tells us that if we want God to forgive us, we should forgive those who sin against us so that God would forgive us. You see that we have to do some things to earn God's forgiveness, and it is not about relying on the sacrifice or death of Jesus but on the will to forgive those who trespass against us. God also has conditions for the forgiveness of our sins, which are repentance and then forgiveness towards those who trespass against us. It is all about Karma, my man.


Where again did you get this from? What bible are you reading for Heaven's sake? Even our common sense tells us that one who stole a piece of meat from his father's pot out of hunger cannot be compared to Bokoharam who kill people for fun. If you are correct, then why does Jesus say some people would be flogged stripes according to what they did? If all sins are thesame then what is the essence of God's Judgement, there would be no need to Judge men according to their deeds, but simply throw every sinner into hell? If God does not classify sin, then why does John say there is a sin that leads unto death? and why is Paul careful to warn us that the sin of fornication is also a sin against the body.
James does not tell us that all sins are thesame, he simply said we should not be hypocrites and we should keep God's laws to the full not neglecting one for another.


A man who can escape earthly punishment say for instance an Emperor who is a dictator of a powerful nation and cannot be punished by the law for his crimes, are you saying if he gives his life to christ just before his death, he becomes automatically saved?

Just the way God's thought are higher than man's thought, so are his ways.

If men were God, a man who stole a meat from pot will recieve a lighter sentence than the one who killed. But with God all sins are equal. If you are found wanting in one, you are found wanting in all.

All sins lead to death which is the ultimate price for sin.


Right there on the cross, the thief only told Jesus to remember him and he was with Christ in his kingdom just as Christ promised. Remember the man was still punished for his sins ( punishment by man) by getting killed by the soldiers. That death is the earthly punishment called Karma.

If he hasn't receive Christ on that day, his soul will still be on the row of condemnation when Christ will come to judge the world.

So sin brings to things....earthly punishment (karma) which can be physical death or whatever problems our sin causes us.

The second one is the punishment after Christ's judgement. Now remember that by default, every human born of woman doesn't have eternal life anymore after Adam fell in the garden. Now if Christ didn't come to make the sacrifice he did, all humans born from Adam are condemned to death according to the instructions God gave Adam in the beginning. ( the day you shall eat this fruit, that day ye shall surely die). So only those that recieve Christ and believe he died for their sins will escape condemnation. This is the second punishment and is different from the punishment one receives for committing sin on earth.

Remember the bible describes two types of death...the physical death which is the one we see happening here. The second death is that which will come after Christ judgment.

GeneralDae:
Thank you jarry. The preaching that one can just simply ask for forgiveness on their deathbed and they gain it all at that moment is a strange one to me.

Also I wonder what faith is, without works of righteousness to show for it.

We are not saved because of righteousness but by faith in Jesus.

Yes one can ask for forgiveness on their death bed and be saved. The ultimate punishment for sin is death. There is no greater punishment. But I need you to understand that God knows the heart of all men. If a man plans in his heart to wait till he is on the stick bed or about to die before receiving Jesus, what if death comes suddenly upon him without him knowing? That's a foolish thing to do.


Remember when Jesus said we shouldn't fear that which can only destroy the body and not the soul but we should fear God that can destroy both the body and soul.


It is being saved from the second punishment (punishment from God) of our sins that Christ came for not the earthly punishment. So if a man steals and he is convicted and sent to life imprisonment, he can receive christ and be saved while he serves his sentence.
He can even be freed if God decides to have compassion.

GeneralDae:
my man, God is not mocked, whatever a man sows he would reap. The preaching that one can ask for forgiveness at the last minute is dangerous. It is thesame bible that says whatever a man sows he would reap, so I believe there would still be a form of judgement by fire for total cleansing in the afterlife for such a sinner who repented at his/her deathbed.
Remember the person may have been a bandit who killed people and destroyed families and then was arrested and sentenced to death, just before the execution, he made sure to ask for forgiveness just to make heaven. God is not so foolish to grant such a person immediate heaven. Karma would still play it's role. Karma is a universal law set by God himself.

Stop this belief!

Yes, there is a law of sowing and reaping but the grace and sacrifice of Jesus is superior to that law as far as heaven and earth is concerned.

Now I want you to understand something. According to the bible a man that killed one million people and a man that told a lie committed the same thing called sin. No sin is greater than the other. It is we humans who sees one sin and rate it over the other.

Now we also need to understand that earthly punishment for sins ends when a man dies. Most times this earthly punishment is from the government for those who committed crimes. Apart from this punishment, when a man dies the judgement will take place. If the man received Jesus and believed in his heart that Jesus died for his sins before he died on earth, then there is no punishment from God to him.

ChocolateWine:
Please don't preach to me that that the things of God are beyond our understanding. The Bible was written for humans and the Bible it is perfect to make us upright. God cannot be hiding things from us and except us to be obedient.

I do hope you understand. Just explain to me what you think i don't understand. A good teacher is one who can teach a little child, even Jesus said that.




Apparently you don't understand your own statement. What is faith? While answering that use James 2:26. While at that too, remember we said having faith and going back to sin has no forgiveness left. Hence our conscience is involved, which is judged by God.




If you keep preaching this kind of preaching, you should not called such people fools, they are being smart.

Life is all a risk and the life we have today favours bad people most, so anyone waiting last minute is taking a good risk. Imagine someone who has 98% chances of accepting Jesus in his heart before he gives up his last breathe, c'mon let's be objective.

Afterall it also means he can be selective with the sin he commits and immediately prays for forgiveness each time, afterall God is forever merciful, according to your preaching.

The truth is what it is despite it being like foolishness or smartness (according to you) in human reasoning.

The sacrifice of Jesus Christ which only requires faith or believing in him is a fact. The bible doesn't say you must have been a believer for a period of time before you can be saved.

Immediately you accept and believe Jesus and that he died for your sins, no matter the phase you are in life whether about to die or not, you are saved.

There is no other condition. If you have been believing there is another condition apart from this, you need another orientation.

ChocolateWine:
What do you mean by make peace with Jesus?

Are you indirectly emboldening badness?

What is the use of being a good person if 98% of the time you'd make peace with God at the last minute?

Using the case of the thief nailed with Jesus does not in anyway supports this claim.

The criminal from his statement you could see that he has heard about Jesus, but likely haven't accepted him as saviour or believe in him or have faith in him.

As he lay there side by side with Jesus he was watching as event unfolded, he even rebuked the other thief for condemning Jesus pointing out why at least he should have the fear God seeing what was happening.

That was when he begged Jesus, remember me in your Kingdom.

Hebrews 10:26 clearly makes us understand that there is no sacrifice in the law for willful sinners.

Who are willful sinners? Someone who knows Christ and believes he's the savior and maybe goes for baptism, but still goes back to sin.

My people God cannot be a fool.

If we know Christ and still continue in sin there is no grace left for us in the last minute.

Let's not deceive people and harden them in the path of sin while interpreting the word of God wrongly.

You need a deeper understanding of what the grace and sacrifice of Jesus entails.

For we aren't justified by works, but by faith.

That statement covers everything about being saved. Your being righteous or having good works isnt enough to save you, only faith in Jesus will do that.

As for giving your life to Christ at the last minute, it's a sure way of being saved but not everyone has the luxury of accepting Christ the last moments before they die.

It's only a fool that will keep committing sin and waiting for the last moments to accept Christ. Such a person may not have a that chance. The person's death may come suddenly before they realize it.

Kukukillus:
The bitter truth is that no man can make Peace with God at the last minutes, it has to be before the last minutes long enough to clear your karma. God is not a fool.

The thief on the cross gave his life to Jesus at the last minute and he made it.

Na wa

Good evening

SOLD

IamGreen1:
The last part though, he doesn't deserve to be free. The said girl has already being damaged. Maybe you don't understand how sha, I know of a little girl that was damaged by her step dad. She's the one that go around calling men by herself now. Most of them end up being self destructive courtesy of men like Baba Ijesha, he should rot in jail abeg.

If only men were God!

The man deserves to be punished but not to rot in jail.
Everyone deserves a chance to repent of their wrongs.

That's why Jesus came. He doesn't condemn anyone no matter the sin, after punishment, everyone deserves a chance to repent.

naija4life247:
Remove the last paragraph in this your post before I start searching for you to deal with you mercilessly

I pray you dont get into a situation where you desperately beg for a second chance.

To err is human, to forgive is divine.

A bad habit not stopped early enough will eventually expose , destroy or disgrace you.

This is a lesson for whoever is reading this.
Many of us have what we do secretly that is bad and we find it difficult to stop.

Take a stand now and stop whatever immoral habit you have been engaging in. It will either destroy you or expose you.


As for the man, I pray he comes out of this later and repent.

Lip service

Available

Good

Available

Good morning

Good morning

Good morning

Available

Good morning

Available

Available