₦airaland Forum

pazienza:
So you admit that oil wealth in the East and Midwest were more important and lucrative to the Igboman than the Northern jobs.

So why then would he give these crude oil wealth up, just to control a relatively poor FG?

Your points are not in harmony, it's almost like you are making them up as go along the way.

Centralization of the government is totally parallel to desire to keep the oil wealth of ND.Ndiigbo can't be guilty of both, as they are directly opposite to each other. You will have to choose one. So, which is it?

There is a correlation between centralisation and oil wealth of ND. The correlations are GREED and COVETOUSNESS.

Greed of desire to be controlling everybody.

Covetousness of aggregating the nation's resources under their control.

The same correlation the present beneficiary of the monstrous centralisation is benefiting from and using to prevent decentralisation.

If there is no correlation, we can all stop complaining about resource control and leave things the way they are.

pazienza:
Oil boom was in 70s you say, yet for many times, Ndiigbo had been accused of wanting Biafra because of greed to have the oil wealth of East and Midwest to ourselves. How do you reconcile this your admission that Oil was a non factor in the 60s with this accusation.

How many times have Ndiigbo been declaring publicly that Ironsi, Nzeogwu acted on their own? Are you People listening to that or are you lots more interested in making the Igbo villains by all means?

Oil boom is different from oil presence. Get that straight.

The Oil presence in ND made you to annexe ND. Period.

the same way the people that acted in revenge, acted on their own.

knowledgeable:
Which ever way the above points you've pointed out is pointing to has been invalidated and at the same vindicated the Igbos by boko haram and all it stand for as regards to Igbo quest for self preservation. That's if you can objectively connect the dots here.

they are 2 different incidents. The only connecting dot here is secession.

vanunu:
Were the perpetrators of 1966 genocide in which 30,000 innocent men, women and children were killed , brought to justice. For ur information none of those army officers were set free by ironsi, they were all in detention awaiting trial .

Which action preceded the genocide?

They were not set free but they were lounging and artying around. Awolowo was sent to Prison in Eastern Region, Wole Soyinka was sent to prison in the north for backing Biafra, Why were the coupists sent to Eastern Region fPrisons?

pazienza:
So, you really believe that the petty northern jobs were more lucrative than the newly discovered crude oil wealth of the Eastern and Western region, that the so called greedy Igbo man would give up the enormous crude wealth of the East and Midwest for the crumbs found in the North?


Surely even you must know that those two ideas doesn't add up.

Ironsi policies were clearly anti Igbo when clinically dissected. He couldn't be acting on behalf of Ndiigbo, the man was acting of his own behalf.

How many people were aware of the new found oil and what was the price of oil as at then. Oil boom was in the 70s.

Igbos groups should have declared publicly that Ironsi was acting on his own.

Vessi:
even after you have read speech by northern premiers on taking over Nigeria and using the rest of Nigeria as stooges? My friend wake up!!!

It has been some time I read that report hence a bit difficult to dig out. But be rest assured if you dig deep. You will find it. Report was by one within the circles of first coup plotters.

i have scouted the net far and wide, i did not see anything of such.

If you do, kindly post here for us to see and analyse.

Vessi:
there are online reports that a jihad led my sardauna was to be launched about a day after the coup. That prompted the coup plotters to execute the coup and get rid of sardauna and Co. Thereby saving Nigeria from the act of being Islamized.

Absolute rubbish and mega lies.

Even the coupists never said that in their broadcast. What type of Jihad can Sardauna lead in 1966? Abeg, even if we are to make up some stories, let them have substance.

SOUNDKING:
your hatred had made you not know, that the best side of a story is from an eye witness, this is it, my father fought in the war under x brigade let by major joe achuzia,he show me pix of himseft with H.M.G, the way he told me the story was similar to what i heard from other people including what i saw online,history is pased from father to children may be you were not opportuned to sit with your father for reasons best known to you.in my biafra land when someone told you, ''his father said'' you have to respect him cos he is seen as responsible. Irresponsible people don't have any story to pass from their father to their children.

I laugh in Greek.

Your father told you of his false heroics. If he was such an hero, he would also have joined his friends to commit suicide. Why did he not?

Your father was resoundingly defeated and he had to tell you a story to make him look like a superman that he never was and he will never be.

How do you expect the story of your father to be objective? Tell the world how many books you have read n the war and not the tales by moonlight story that was told you by your father, under the orange tree.

perryy:
Nigeria is doomed. Just and see. We are not one, and those foolanis saying one Nigeria are just saying so because of the oil. My question is, if this oil is in the north or SW, would there still be one Nigeria? The answer is a resounding NO. #death to nigeria

Oil is in Ondo.

There is reserve in Tonkeji Island of Ogun State.

Lagos is a potential oil producing. May we never find oil there.

How is that our business?

ilugunboy:
One of the chief architect of the GEJ hate and tribally charged campaign that is supposedly in a position to lead the opposition is already trying to warm his way to those that matters in APC just to retain his last minute appointment Sec position.

That Adaobi is a just a green snake under the green grass. He contributed immensely to GEJ's loss. He is sycophant of the highest order and a power hungry vulture.

Sincerely, I never believed that story for once.

I knew it was the handiwork of some sore losers, mischief makers, trying to sow the seeds of discord.

Remarkable:
.. he also didn't highlight the state of the nation that led to the Jan. '66 coup, and how the citizenry were yearning for a revolution; the cause of that coup would have been good insight.

Nice angle to the untwining of this convoluted mess.

What were the events that led to the coup, that justified selective killings of leaders of other regions?

pazienza:
Again, you are running in cycles. Remember that you are yet to prove how the control of the regions were not more beneficial to Ndiigbo more than the centralization of the government, considering the newly acquired crude oil wealth of the Midwestern and Eastern regions.

Now to address your current post.

Is it possible that the same reason why Orizu refused to swear Dipcharima in, was the exact reason why Ogundipe refused to pick up the mantle following Ironsi's death. You don't want to be on the way of an armed power hungry man with troops at his command. Do you ever consider the fact that Orizu was a human and 'might be scared of his life?


Why was Ironsi interested in taking over? Did you really ask that question? A man who had tested power as a high ranked military officer was presented with an opportunity to rule a country, and you wonder why he desired power? Isn't the desire for power a primordial instinct of most humans?

Ironsi was interested in power because he was a human being, and not because he had a secret meeting with Ndiigbo.

Why Zik was not in the country during the coup, no one knows, but it's also on record that the impending coup was a public knowledge that most top government officials knew about, perhaps Zik was more careful than the rest.

Either way, it doesn't matter, as you are yet to tell me how the control of a centralized FG would have served Ndiigbo better than the control of the Nigerian two oil rich regions, considering the 50:50 revenue sharing formula between the regions and the FG.

That is where greed, acting-before-thinking and lack of foresight comes in. Ironsi should have been contented with being in control as HOS and he should have left the regions the way they were. He created a monstrous political structure that is eating us all up.

Back to your question. A centralised govt would have given the Ibos the chance to fully harness the opportunities that abounds in the north then, knowing fully well that the Northern Regions was not as well educated as the south, It would have given them the opportunity to take over all the civil service jobs in the north. We are all aware of the open bigotry of Sardauna, publicly saying they will consider foreigners for employment first before southerners.

zendy:
Oh really? My independence day is 30th May, the date of the declaration of Biafra.

Indeed.

SOUNDKING:
shut up, no body forced what to vote on any body during the referendum igbos saw Biafra as the only land they could call their own,that is why we had too much act of petrotism from Igbos during war,i could remenber my father told me about many of his coleagues from the achuzia's X brigade, that chose to commit suicide rather than go back to Nigeria. We shall rise again!!!!

Definitely the demented you woke up this morning, omo ti o niran.

Your father told you and you are not even ashamed of yourself. Lazy way out of having an informed knowledge. Some of us did not wait for our fathers to tell us, we read every book and article available on the war. That was the same way Chimamanda was telling us how her uncle told her his make-me-feel-good tales by moonlight stories.

Do yourself a great service of reading up.

His colleagues committed suicide and their supposed sissy leader spared his own life by dressing as a woman while running away to Abidjan.

Definitely they died a worthless death just like suicide bombers of Boko Haram,

pazienza:
So, you believe others complied at gun points, but Orizu had a choice and didn't comply to Ironsi directives at gun point, simply because he( Orizu) was Igbo?


You see how you Igbophobia blinds you to the true nature of human.

No human will give away his powers willingly, We have seen cousins fight each other for power( Amaechi and Omehia), but you somehow believe that Orizu would willingly surrender his powers and become ordinary and anonymous simply because Ironsi was a fellow Igbo, you mean to say that Orizu had no political ambitions of his own? Do you know how distant Nnewi is from Umuahia?

Do you really for once think that an unarmed Orizu really stood a chance at defying Ironsi, a military man with gun who commands battalions of soldiers?

You are clearly not being objective.

You missed the point.

Orizu had the opportunity to swear in Dipcharima and he declined and he refused to co-operate with the other ministers.. Whether he did at gun point or not is inconsequential again, once he fettered away the golden opportunity to continue with our nascent democracy of then, by simply handling a swearing in ceremony of 10minutes and oath taking.

It would have been a different ball game entirely if he had sworn in Dipcharima and Ironsi comes into the Exco and forced all of them to resign and hand over to him. We shall all know Ironsi was acting out his own script with the coup plotters.

Why was Ironsi interested in taking over, if he was not part of the plot ab initio, at least he said the coup has been crushed. He could as well allow the democratic structure to continue by the constitutional succession plan.

People can see through all the lies and deceptions. How will a sitting, though ceremonial president leave the country for 3months for mere medical check up and vacation. FRom Britain he ended up in the carribeans, Even the meeting of Heads of Commonwealth that as held in early Jan of 1966 could not bring him back into the country and this was a person that loves podium more than his home.

pazienza:
I don't know his motives, but whatever his motives were, it's obvious that it wasn't pro Igbo, it was more of personal selfishness.

Osadebey and Okpara didn't willingly surrender their thrones and visions for the East and Midwest, they were forced to by Ironsi, likewise Orizu the speaker.

Okpara had plans of placing PH ahead of Lagos, he had been working on that plan diligently with just revenues from Enugu coal and Palm oil plantations spread mostly in Igboland and Ibibiolands, just when he got crude wealth to accelerate that master plan of his, Nzeogwu and his boys put a stop to everything.

Based on the fact that we do not know his motive, you can believe it was for personal selfish interest and i can also believe what i deemed fit.

Did Okpara shred the master plan or he died with it? Why has this angelic Masterplan not been followed rigidly till date?

The Ministers informed Orizu that they have chosen Zana Dipcharima to be the Acting PM, having learnt of the fate that befell Balewa. Orizu rejected the proposal, being the acting President, due to the unending vacation of ZIk which was thought to have been tipped off by his cousin about the impending coup. Nwafor Orizu refused to co-operate with the ministers.

Orizu liaised and co-operated fully with Ironsi and handed over to Ironsi and other ministers complied at gun points.

Notice the trend:

Coup plotters - Led by Nzeogu, cousin to Zik
Beneficiary -- Ironsi
President that went for medical check up just before the coup -- ZIk
The acting president that refused to swear in Dipcharima -- Orizu
The acting president that handed over to the military --- Orizu
The military president that took over -- Ironsi.

Be objective in this. There is a connecting dot in all of this.

What is the way forward should be the next thing and not the continuous dwelling on events of 50years ago, carried out by guys that were less than 35years of age.

meforyou1:
i beg you in the name of good God, just try it.

Na so, you dared northerners and they did and nothing happened.

You are daring us at your peril.

zendy:
There is no territorial integrity to protect if the state has no legitimacy.

You are funny. Legitimacy lies in your celebration of independence.

pazienza:
You are all over the place. You need to calm down.

You are yet to answer my question, so I ask again. Can you authoritatively prove that Nzeogwu and co were acting on behalf of Ndiigbo? Yes or No.


Now let me give you reasons why Nzeogwu coup was not to Igbo advantage.

1. Igbo controlled two of the four regions of Nigeria before Nzeogwu coup. Osadebey and Okpara were the premiers of the Midwestern and Eastern regions respectively.

2. The regions enjoyed enormous powers, so much that Akintola's New coalition with the North would matter less, seeing as the two Igbo controlled regions just newly discovered oil wealth, and with the 50:50 revenue sharing formula between the region and the FG then, control of the East and Midwest was more lucrative than control of the FG.

3. How exactly did Ironsi centralization ish favour Ndiigbo, when it now meant that we had to share the newly discovered crude oil wealth of the Midwest and East with the North and the West, haven't we been accused of wanting Biafra just to corner the crude oil wealth of ND, how exactly would centralization of the government, help Ndiigbo to corner the crude oil, don't you think that regionalism was a better way to go, if the theory of Igbo greed for crude oil must hold?

4. The crude wealth of the Midwest and East would have put Ndiigbo millions of miles away from the North and the West, once we allowed the minorities to have an upper hand in the wealth.

Nzeogwu coup was totally anti Igbo.

It eliminated Akintola, Awo's nemesis. With Akintola alive, Yorubas would remain divided between Awo and Akintola, making their exploitation easier. Akintola death freed Awo, United Yorubas who then worked against Ndiigbo as a United front.

I have answered your question on whether the coup was executed on behalf of the igbos or not? Of course you do not expect them to come to the market square to ask for mandate to execute the coup on behalf of certain groups of people. However, taking into cognisance the executioners of the coup, the victims of the coup and beneficiaries of the coup, one might be technically inclined to believe so.

Igbos were controlling the 2 regions. Beautiful. What now made Ironsi to centralise power? I will like to know the presumed motive(s), because he could still have been the Head of State and still leave the region's the way they were.

zendy:
Julius Nyereres insightful piece on Biafra says it all. Of course, I don't expect everyone to have the brain power to understand the concept of self determination which he enunciated here. The Biafran tragedy could have been averted if the ideology of "we must all be Nigerians wether we live me it or not!" Had been done away with. Sadly,even to this day, many so called Nigerians still have this archaic mentality. I am an Igbo man, I have the right inalienable right to decide for myself if I am Nigerian or not. After all, Lord Lugard did not seek my consent before threw me together with people I have no connection with such as Yorubas and Hausas. A country or derives it's legality to exist as nation by obtaining the express consent or permission of the people. If a country loses that consent, it loses legitimacy. Nigeria was a fraud when it was created by Lugard in 1914 because it didn't take into account the wishes of the people. Lugard knew that the area now known as the SS/SE would have rejected being included in Nigeria. Nigeria was a fraud then, it is a fraud now and it will always remain the personification of the fraudulent practice of the White Man in Africa and that is why it will work. Biafra is the only alternative and homeland I as an Igbo man recognise.

The concept of self determination that he elucidated in the write up was effectively negated by the part of the write up that says State must protect their territorial integrity and sovereignty.

pazienza:
Adaka Boro was not a leader of Ijaw people, he held no elective post or appointment post. How would Ironsi be sure he was actually speaking for Ijaw people, when we had Ijaw leaders in Enugu singing a different song. The only way would have been by Referendum to determine where the people stood, a similar thing was done for Bamenda in the Eastern region.

Moreover, you don't see Ndiigbo defending Ironsi actions of trying to uphold the fallacy of one Nigeria, no Igbo man defends his pre civil war actions, non of them were to our benefit.


No one down East is applauding GEJ for fighting to preserve the North, the General consensus is that he should let the North divide to allow the East freedom.

Can we say the same of the support Gowon and Awo got from their people, in their effort to bring back the East?

On a side note, the Biafran scenario is entirely different from the Boro and GEJ case. No body was killing the Ijaws, the North( Boko haram) were killing themselves,where as Biafrans were being killed by Nigerians with tact support/ in action of the Northern controlled central government.

There is simply no basis for the comparison of the those three events.

In all the cases I cited, the integrity of the sovereignty of the State is being threatened and the sitting President at that point in time acted decisively to protect the sovereignty of the nation.

Emphasis is on the protection of territorial integrity and sovereignty of the nation and not who is killing who.

I never supported the kiling of Igbos by northerners and can never support the killing of human beings. Most people 's point of view is that if there was no coup of January, under events that occurred would not have. That was the Genesis of the whole crisis.

Ijaw people never denied Adaka Boro's declaration. Just because a handful of Ijaws in the parliament in Enugu were singing different tunes, does not make his declaration invalid. Was Ike Nwachukwu not in the Nigerian Army that fought against Biafra? Would he not have been telling Gowon some unprintable things about Ojukwu. Would he not have informed Gowon that Ojukwu was forcing his pet project on his people.

Which independent person was present at the referendum for the declaration of Biafra? How are we sure Ojukwu did not use cohesive force to choose the people that voted at the referendum, using the Abacha's style and taking into cognisance that results are still being written in people's bedroom in 2015.

If Biafra declaration is valid, same goes for Isaac Boro's declaration.

In your own opinion, looking at those unfortunate incidents retrospectively, what do you think each party ought to have done differently, that could have been beneficial to all?

pazienza:
They were being detained, pending judgment of their case, would you have rather preferred jungle justice?

Can you authoritatively prove that Nzeogwu and co were acting on behalf of the Igbo nation?

How many days does it take to court martial coup plotters? They were being detained in prisons in Eastern Region, where it was recorded those guys leave the prison at will for partying.

It must definitely be a day-prison facility.

Gideon Orkar and his boys were executed under how many days? Vatsa was sentenced under how many days? Dimka was arraigned and sentenced under how many days. The prosecution of soldiers that led the mutiny in Bornu and refused to fight the BH war took how many months to be completed?

Ironsi had 6months to serve justice and he never did.

I cannot authoritatively state that they acted on behalf of Igbo nation, but some facts are on ground that gave credence to it.

It was coup that was led by majorly Igbo officers. Fact.

It was a coup that the none of political gladiators of Igbo extraction was not killed. Fact.

It was also a known fact that just one Igbo officer was killed, which was out of vendetta. Fact.

The beneficiary of the coup was an igbo officer. Fact.

Regional powers were cancelled and power was centralised just for igbo to "dominate" others, like they used to say. Not a fact but is well founded.

pazienza:
The
federal Government argues that in
demanding the renunciation of secession
before talks, and indeed in its entire
"police action", it is defending the
territorial integrity of Nigeria. On this
ground it argues also that it has a right to
demand support from all other
governments, and especially other African
governments. For every state, and every
state authority, has a duty to defend the
sovereignty and integrity of its nation; this
is a central part of the function of a
national government.
Africa accepts the validity of this point, for
African states have more reason than
most to fear the effects of disintegration.
.

Ironsi stood on this ground to crush the declaration of Republic of Niger Delta by Adaka Isaac Boro.

Shagari stood on same to chase the Chadian rebels back into Chad.

GEJ is standing on the same premise to crush. Book Baram's declared Caliphate.

Gowon simply just did same.

pazienza:
Such words have even less
effect when the speakers have made no
attempt to bring the perpetrators of crimes
to justice,

Were the perpetrators of the 1st coup brought to justice?

Was that fair on others.

pazienza:
Zik was Zik of Africa, he was friends with virtually all who mattered in Africa, yet not all in Africa approved of Biafra struggle, and Biafra did sent delegates to those nations like they did to Tanzania.

You failed to attack Nyerere points, you rather chose to attack the person, a clear admission of intellectual laziness.

Pazienza let us discuss the topic objectively because it is a lovely write up that is intellectually sound enough for informative discussion.

Drop all your grandstanding and let us discuss this objectively.

If you want the thread to go down the hill, we shall gladly oblige you. I can't shout.

pazienza:
The rights and wrongs of the original
coup d'etat, the rights and wrongs of the
attitudes taken by different groups in the
politics of pre and post coup Nigeria, are
all irrelevant to the fear which Ibo people
feel.

He brushed over the coup d'etat that killed the leaders of other regions as well as high ranking Army officers of other regions, as if it was a none issue and emphasised the fear of the Ibos.

Action always begat a reaction.

Genesis always precedes revelation.

What a fair comment.

Wonderful write up but 2 key things are critically missing :

1. He brushed over the incidence of Jan 1966 as if it was a none issue. Maybe, he did not understand the import of that singular action that spiralled out of control because he is not a Nigerian.

2. He also failed to disclose his blossoming friendship with Zik in this write up, in the spirit of objectivity. There is no way most of what he wrote would not have been based on hearsays of Zik. It took several diplomatic trips for Zik to convince Nyerere to recognise the new country and it was even done on friendship basis. He would have been fair enough to tell us in his write up that Zik was his very good friend.

SonOfEl:
i know truth is bitter, but try to swallow it, it will cure your complex.

Open your eyes and see the reality of your status in this country.

Your inferiority complex is visible and obvious to all.

Remarkable:
When I said fear-fear people have no pride and no dignity, it sounded harsh, but its the truth and your post just displayed it... when a government voted in by the people kidnaps them... (and dumps them in wee hours of the morning at the head-bridge) ... that becomes a sign of bravery?

well... its these same fear-fear people that pride themselves in bombing market places and refugee camps during the civil war, whereas their grownass men wer running away from Biafran boys with sticks.

What else do you have? Mr. Fear-fear?

(and just in case you didn't get the sarcasm in my post... using an arm of government to kidnap defenceless civilians is no bravery... it is the hallmark of cowardice! and proves my point that you are all cowards! Man up! for 4Ks sake, Man! the! 4! Cup!!!

As usual stup1d people are always blaming others for their woes. Your government failed to make arrangement for their transportation and we were even magnanimous to transport them down to your gully eroded land and dumped them under wherever. What happened. NOTHING. The best you did was to make noise as usual and issue your usual lame ultimatum.

Grown up men were running away from.you cassava stick wielding boys and they still massacred 3million of you? Then it must have been angel of death of that killed those 3millions for the fun of it. Y1boman and illogical shallow reasoning will always baffle others.

They were kidnapped and dumped on your land and what came out of it? NOTHING. Don't you get it that, no one takes you guys serious. You guys are bunch of laughing stocks

shineeye:
Abeg let me leave these clowns of S waste people and go and pick up my sweet girl we are going to in door pool party got no time for waste men

South Haters that hate everything under the sun.