₦airaland Forum

@Abdul-Majeed: As sSalaamualaykum.
Islam is not about killing.

The Messenger [sa] was insulted to his blessed face and if he killed people upon the first insult,
the learned jews of Madina who later enter Islam would not have had the chance.

The whole of Makka would have been a city slaughtered.

You need to take it easy and you need to improve your quality so that the image of Islam can truly shine through.

^^^ the yoruba in you just came out.

i know a whole lot of christians who insult me by islam;
telling me muslims knock heads on the floor. telling me my last messenger [sa] was deficient in good morals.

the same people will say i am a good person. I challenge them by reminding them my best came from Islam and Muhammad [sa].


i am simply telling you that if your proposal is successful while you are alive, Muslims by their love for Islam have saved your religion of christianity and you from the oral pogrom of the atheist, for example. you would will reap the benefit of the struggles of the muslims, standing firm on their faith.

^^^ 4 posts, one after another. in all, you have said nothing.
debunk if you can. you will have to provide proofs of your 'debunking".


is Allah the moongod? He said no in a clear and direct verse above: you dont worship the moon.


You worship Allah, the God all, including man, angels, etc an yes the moon and sun and stars.

@^^^^: if this your opinion quoted here becomes the reality of the future, in my sincere and unbiased observation, though i hate many of the steps the muslims do take to voice their position, the outcome is that Islam would have benefited even you:

Maybe through this sordid saga the world can come to a consensus on how to treat all religions with respect where ever they reside.

even though you are not a muslim and may actually hate ever becoming one.


Muhammad [sa] asked Jibril [as] if Jibril had received benefit of association with Muhammad as Allah says in The Quran, Muhammad [sa] is a means of mercy? Jibril [as] was reported to have answered that before revelation to Muhammad [sa], though he Jibril carried revelation to earlier messengers and prophets [as], it was until Muhammad's time and only that Allah says about Jibril to be trustworthy in Surah Najm, that he Jibril became assured. Before he used to be so afraid that maybe he was making mistake, fearing if he had not performed as expected.

@Ubenedictus:

by Ubenedictus(m): 2:10pm

Sweetnecta:
@Udenedictus: abeg tell me who the another comforter is ol' chap,

i cant seem to find the word "another comforter" in my bible, pls can u show me d passage where u got those words

You should have goggled it. Never mind/ Here is it from this muslim to you christian man: John 14 verse 16

New Living Translation (©2007)
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.

You guys may actually have incomplete Bibles. You are the 2nd person to ask me for this.

capable of hearing from God, and then speaking what he hears from God to men. How did he deliver his "speak to man" to man and how did man hear his "speaking to them"?

act2 show how d spirit speaks thru man, he speaks to man's heart, he speaks thru dreams, visions and in d core of our being, he grants man utterance, act 15:28 show how d spirit guides the church. The scriptures makes it clear that the comforter is the holy spirit.

read the roe of the another comforter. None of the things in your list is part of what he was to do with the disciples. How did God speak with the another comforter? We may not know, but we know that God spoke to many and in most cases they audiences heard The Very Voice of God, Aloud. Moses is one. Before that Adam. Even many of ordinary people heard the Voice of God Loud and Clear if we have to believe the Bibles on the matter of Baptism of Jesus. Jews dont practice baptism. But thats another matter. How could God have spoken to these many people, and His last speech to His Another comforter, we may say God did not use voice? Even if that is an argument, we know man hears with ears not with hearts. We will expect The another comforter to talk to man about what God sent him to tell man in a sounding loud voice. Read from your Bibles what the another comforter was to do, including praising Jesus. That at least he must do with Audible voice. You can ignore the correcting of mistakes assumed to be the norm. How dull can the disciples be to fall into mistakes so soon that the another comforter must come to correct them? It is just too soon for the best students of the master to fall into an error. List their errors for me, if you know any to support the opinion that they were corrected?



@iv4fb:

by iv4fb: 5:05pm
@sweetnecta, so jesus sent mohammed? Interesting.

No. Jesus didnt send Muhammad [sa]. You didnt read anything like that from me. From the Bible, it is not clear what Jesus did wit anything, including creation and the appearance of the Another comforter. The Bible fluctuates between Jesus and God and in places where no one can work the name of Jesus in, there is deafening silence. God was to send the another comforter. God sent Jesus as we know. Jesus never sent anything and those who followed him were given to hi by God is evidence of God ability over Jesus inability. It is not surprising that we will find God capable of sending anyone, man or angel. Man prophet are sent to men community to make believers of them. Angels are normally sent to human prophets to support the or deliver messages so that they deliver them to men. Many was not a prophet had angel appeared to her as a full man.

And Islam is perfect?

Yes. But Muslims are not. they seek repentance and pray for guidance, always.

With the terrorism that even you condemn?

Muslims commit terrorism if this is your argument, against Islam. Islam is different from muslims. Islam is religion while muslims are people who say they are practicing the religion of Islam. You will measure a good muslim by how close to the truth of Islam he/she is.

Damn! Maybe you don't even listen to urself, u just spill as it flows. If islam were perfect, why fight for your god/God?

Moses was a perfect prophet so much that God spoke to him throughout. God did not even allow man to know where he was buried. You even believe that God alloed Mose to see part of Him. Yet God commanded Moses to fight disbelief and disbelievers, even to wipe them out in towns and cities. God does not change.

Coz you hold him sacred? so kill all his other creatures. Ok, islam is perfect, the Bible said Jesus sent mohammed- are u happy now?

This is not a win or lose contest. The truth is said.

Well, if that's what islam teaches you, of how perfect it is, how to kill the non-muslim, how to be violent, how to conceal the truth-defend lies, then let ur mohammed comfort u with 70 virgins in aljana!

if i have 1 virgin on earth I will be happy to have what I get in Paradise. I wonder what truth i am concealing or the lies I am defending? There must be shame, so expose me or you have accused without any proof?

If you will be logical and rational, I won't mind explaining things to you for they are mystery. I am a christian and I have/read and obey the Bible so do u with your Quaran, if you feel like reading the Bible and get confused, ask questions with open mind. I for instance won't bother reading your quoran, I'm comfortable with what I have and I believe in the completeness of the Bible, u can use the Bible to defend ur Quoran, u can even say junk about the Bible, we're peaceful people, we will leave u to urself and we won't even bother doing anything to your Quoran, we have a better Book. So if you wanna learn, ask with open mind, Otherwise, stick to your believes, use the Bible to defend ur quoran, stop asking question you have carved answers for.

I opened a thread for you to just tell me how a ghost speaks to man, you cant for as long as you have been make post here. How logical and rational can you be if you do not see deficiency in your false truth about Bibles, a book that is inconsistent that you a protestant will never accept the Bible of the roman catholic, or that of the ethiopian orthodox? How open minded are you when you have not read the Quran and already made up your mind not read it, even the absolute truth is what you will discover in it. If it is the textboo that your professor says you must conduct your thesis on for easy Ph. D. award, what will you do? Yet it will be better for you than that with God Almighty.

Fyi, I'm done with this. So my conclusion is Fear God and keep His commandments-whichever god/God you serve

have a safe trip.

@obadiah777 and Ubenedictus:

by Ubenedictus(m): 3:21am

obadiah777: THE COMFORTER IS THE WORDS OF GOD. THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST MAKES YOU ALIVE ( JOHN 6 VS 63 ). THE COMFORTER IS THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE. THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE IS CHRIST ( REVELATION 19 VS 13 ). THE COMFORTER IS THE BIBLE.

John 6 verse 63: New Living Translation (©2007)
The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

revelations 19 verse 13: New Living Translation (©2007)
He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.

if the 2 verses above support your argument that the Bible is the word of God and spirit of Jesus are the same, and that spirit of Jesus is the another comforter, please read the below and see how corrupt is your opinion of "word of God", which is full of opinions of men.

1 corinthians 7 verse 25; New Living Translation (©2007)
Now regarding your question about the young women who are not yet married. I do not have a command from the Lord for them. But the Lord in his mercy has given me wisdom that can be trusted, and I will share it with you.

1 corinthians 4 verse 3: New Living Translation (©2007)
As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don't even trust my own judgment on this point.

2 Timothy 4 verse 13: New Living Translation (©2007)
When you come, be sure to bring the coat I left with Carpus at Troas. Also bring my books, and especially my papers

Galatians 2:11-13

New Living Translation (NLT)
Paul Confronts Peter the rock of the church of Jesus.

11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. 13 As a result, other Jewish Christians followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means 'rock'), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it.

Please tell me if Paul was correct to think little of Peter or it was Jesus who was correct to think so highly of Peter? I think the spirit of Jesus which is the Bible as another comforter is going between corruption and maybe truth in the functions it was meant for in the lives of the disciples; to correct them of mistakes, teach them new things, lead them all truth, reminded the of what Jesus said, take from what is Jesus and show them, convict the world of the children of Israel of sins, glorify Jesus, all of these after the spirit have heard from God. But almost all the Bible, all the old testament and 90% of the Gospel was already revealed before Jesus made that statement. 100% of the Gospel which was about Jesus was already revealed before Jesus was raise up by his Lord. If this is the case, how is the Bible the another comforter that was to come in the future?

You have a whole lot of explanations on this matter and while you are at it, tackle this quote as part of the spirit of Jesus which is another comforter according to you. what significance is there in this truncated verse, having no true beginning or definite ending, and lacking spiritual value?

New Living Translation (©2007)
Matthew 27 verse 52: and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead.

@Udenedictus:

are u freking kidding me?

abeg tell me who the another comforter is ol' chap, capable of hearing from God, and then speaking what he hears from God to men. How did he deliver his "speak to man" to man and how did man hear his "speaking to them"?

@iv4fb:

by iv4fb: 11:49pm
Mr sweetnecta, I really don't like arguing with u, for apart from the fact that your points are usually illogical, you start with insults when you're frustrated.

How did you arrive at me being illogical and please point out my insulting you? Your sin is too thin so i am sorry if you are offended, but i will like to see how i insulted you, while i ignored the wrong opinion of bella3 telling me who dreams in english does not have this very language as my 2nd or even my 3rd language and definitely not my 1st. she started writing in hausa, a language i have no clue of [lol. the girl na some woman].

If indeed you take things easy and think thru, why will Jesus promise to send mohammed? Does that make sense? Maybe he probably sent him to u and ur folks. Saying the Holyspirit is a spirit, sure He is, or don't u know that God is spirit too? Sometimes you talk like a teenager. I really don't know if you're trying to impress somebody with ur points.

i am a teenager in my head, so that settles it and we can now move to the meat of the meat of the thread.

Jesus said God will send the another comforter. This shows that there must have been at least one comforter before the another comforter will come. To know what the another comforter will look like, we have to know what the comforter before him looked like. If this comforter before the another is human, we can not rule out human to be another comforter. If you rule out the possibility that he will be human, then you have to give convincing evidence and no christian has done that here or anywhere for that matter.

we have to consider the nature the audience of the first comforter and how he communicated with it to determine how the another comforter may probably communicate. I know that you have not claimed at angel was a comforter, but angels have spoken to humans, in form of human. Nowhere an angel spoke to anyone in the Bible other than taking the shape of man and it is always in audible voice. If the audience of any earlier comforter was human, we can see that he must have spoken to them in audible voice and we expect consistency in the speech of the another comforter to man, unless you can prove otherwise. After all, this another comforter was to hear from God, indicating that he is not God.

how he hears God is not an issue, but how he speaks to man is. the compounding issue is how an hears. ears, God created for man to hear. in every point i have made, man has to be considered as possible another comforter. no man has ever heard speech with any other organ except his ears. When God was reported to have sent His spirit in a dove lie shape, they said they heard voice coming far away heaven and even seeing the heaven opens up, an impossible feat, if it happens, a great miracle indeed because of the normal range of human sight.

Muhammad [sa] is a human prophet and only human prophets [as] were sent to human listeners. This is why we can not rule out Muhammad [sa] out being the only prophet of God sent. Just because he was not a jew is not an excuse to exclude him. And just because there is a 610 years gap between them is not an excuse because we are still expecting Jesus who said he will come immediately some 2000 years ago. immediately in the lifetime of those people, people already dead now, will be false. except that we all accept that those people Jesus will come in their lifetime will be believers, but their population will be small compared to the general population of people when it does happen. If Jesus is not found at fault on his return even now, then 610 years is just the right time for a correcting comforter who only speaks in the Name of God.

You see, that's why there is no and there'll never be peace on earth.

you are playing God here and you are completely wrong. I expect peace to reign on earth because it had reigned, before.

Islam and christianity are separate and parallel,

judaism is even more parallel to christianity. i do hope you know there are other ways or religions on earth?

they don't serve the same god/God-whichever one u choose!

am not against your opinion here.

Using christianity to defend islam is folly for why will the Bible existing hundreds of years defend the Quaran that came much later?

educated people should not assume that earlier data should be better than latest or newest data. Torah of jews you as a christian see Jesus in it. You did not know that it was earlier than new testament and how come you can find Jesus in it? The case of Quran is better than both. Allah says Jesus said to his people that he was sent to reconfirm Torah and inform them of a future messenger whose name is Ahmad [sa]. If you dont get it, it is a loss cause.

A father don't look like his child, rather his child looks like his father!

A real child that resembles the real father. But a fake father has no quality that true son of a true father will take. I hope you remember this when you are finding Torah to support New Testament.

Maybe u don't know that Islam came to being coz of the supposed oppressions of christianity. Look pal, both religions are not perfect, they have their flaws and issues, claiming urs is perfect is the exact cause of issues on earth-its a religion of peace and 'they' commit the most havoc. Almost all crime associated with religion are perpetrated by the muslims. Christianity also have lots of issued, different variance, different beliefs, even some diabolical folks are associated with it.

Islam is perfect and I will prove it to you. I have waited without any intelligible answer on the very simple question of this thread. If the muslims were to be asked about Islam, i bet you would have had a straightforward answer, right away.

a friend out of D. C. called yesterday talking about Aisha [ra] and the messenger [sa]. In our conversation he thought there was a character flaw in the marriage. I asked him if it was his own opinion or has a good reason behind it. The best of Judge is God and He did not choose a deficient personality to bestow revelation. By the time I was finished with this friend, we agreed that I should come to D. C. to talk with a strong pastor about religion. My plan is to tell them that if they find Islam convincing, they must come to it. I will let them choose the topic and set the tone of the conversation.

Just maybe a whole church will revert to Islam. I pray it is the case.

All I want u to do is to serve ur god/God in truth and spirit, don't use another religion to defend urs (that's folly), u even believe part of the Bible right? I don't and never will believe any word of the Quaran and I have my reasons,from sexuality of her prophet to supporting violence, killings in the name of her god/God and that's why I'll never read or believe anything it says-while ur reasons for reading the bible is to look for points to defend ur ways.

the 1st and last bold betray your sincerity to learning. even if truth is in what you will not read because of your arrogance, you will continue to hold on to lies. thats not a sign of enlightenment.

as to the 2nd bold, you may read the Quran and realize that sexuality of Muhammad [sa] at least parallel those of Abraham the father of faith and Friend of God, Jacob who is the father of children of Israel, Solomon the wise, and if you complain about any young wife, you will find that Adam was the husband of Eve the same day that she was alive, and at least as matured as Mary was when Holy Spirit of the Bible got her pregnant. Your violence in Islam is Islamic defense attitude, except that you would have preferred the prophet [sa] and the muslims [ra] with him turned the other cheek to those who are ready to kill wit the first blow.

If u need another religion to brighten ur religious ways, then you're lost (no offense intended).

None taken because I simply asked a simple question which had became an impossible to answer for you. How can I be eager to need a non answer to brighten my religious ways?

Honestly, the way you keep going tooth and nail to defend ur religion, I don't think you're evern sure of your religion, may God help you-only Him can!

Amin to the bold. You will actually know that you are wrong about me and Islam if i were to be in front of you. Islam and me are perfect together.

Toba if you think Hijab or Kimar is a sign of perfection, that was your mistake.
The young woman is still a human being, young still and has the value and trappings of youth in her.

in spite of her hijab, she will make mistakes. but the hijab might have prevented her from making colossal mistakes and proud of such mistakes.

see. when you called her out, she was contrived. she apologized to you, right away. i am sure she will not repeat it exactly the same way, again.


but why are you greeting muslim woman in hijab/nikab for?


Is there no place you will not hunt for muslim woman? Oga o.

You kinda not tell the truth when you said you were thinking of converting.
i have read couples of your recent posts on religion that make fun of islam.

Toba you are very pathological. Her mistake was in a contained store with just 3 of you or just a handful of people.


your exposing her was to put down islam, and its a global ameboish. you compound your deceit with telling her your false intention while on nairaland the only thing you see good about islam is the woman.

@conise:

by coninse: 12:43pm On Sep 14
PLEASE NOTE: I'm not using this post to start a fight or embarrass the Muslims. I just want to understand more about the religion. Although I'm not a Muslim but I have close friends and families who are Muslims. If you feel offended, I'm so sorry but if you would like to enlighten me more on these quotes, I'll be grateful.

You could have done yourself a whole heap of good if you have done some research, studying, discussion with your close friends and families who are muslims or even leadership of muslim communities in your town, before coming here without absolutely any of what an astute person seeking truth should do. Anyway, i will just attempt the first 5 quoted and hope you will do some work of your own to get to the truth. We must realize that verses of Quran were are to give information, new or reinforced what has been known, warn, encourage, guide, instruct, answer, caution and lead as in guidance to good or away from evil. No verse lacks the reason for revelation. Unlike other scriptures where you have unnecessary once upon a time stories or opinions of individuals, all you have in the Quran is Word of God, He directly relating to Muhammad [sa] through the archAngel Jibril [as] and in the last 4 verse of chapter 2 directly with Muhammad [sa] when the latter went to heaven in the night journey of Isra wa Miraj.

Here are some quotes from the "Holy" Qur'an which I find disturbing. Can any peace loving Muslims out there explain this?


Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war. Qur’an:9:5

who were the disbelievers in this verse? The answer is the Makkan pagans who oppressed the young community of muslims under Muhammad [sa] for 13 years. The oppression was so much on the friends and families and clan of the prophet [sa] in so many ways that so many muslis were tortured, a male and female died [RA], the community was banished from the general population that at the end of 13 years of these, Hijra to Madina was the logical option if they were to stabilize and know peace. When they arrived in Madina, the Makkans who kept the properties of the muslims did not leave them alone. The second year in Madina, God Almighty gave the order to fight back. This is one of the verses concerning the permission in Surah Taubah. You as a human know that there is a need to preserve your life by preventing anyone to taking it from you.

Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission. Qur’an:9:29

This is part of the set of verses relating to what I said above, in part. If you extend it outside this scope, it will not be less valuable than how David slew Goliath. Those who opposed God will have to be dealt with when God commands it, because they have been evil doers and need to be checked so that evil does not become acceptable and become non reversible. God sanitizes evil, always. If you ignore the rainfall of Noah, you can not ignore the flood of Moses and if you do that it will be difficult to ignore the killing of the golden calf worshipers, or the hittatites, jebusites, etc, etc, till you get to the total destruction of the city of Jericho. Do you forget the people of Lot how they were destroyed?

Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah. Qur’an:8:39

when people oppose you, they may actually do it by aggression, taking up arms against your mere speaking out. John the son of Zacharia was killed by the opposition because he spoke out against illegal sexual activity.

So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).Qur’an:8:39

Just a correction in the translation; Fitnah is trial, not disbelief or non muslim. All evil action against the body, soul weighing down the muslim is "Trial", fitnah. In the cases when the non muslims have been at war against the young muslim community, it was a standing fitnah. When God commanded the Muslims to defend themselves, He allowed them to fight them until all trial/fitnah will be over from those who have been causing fitnah.

Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them. Qur’an:9:14

This is within the concept of defending yourself.


I wanna state clearly that there is no start of aggression in Islam. Surah Kafiruun chapter 109 is enough to attest to that. Its concept is live and lets live [you have your way and i have mine. you keep your way and i keep mine. we both agree on one point; we disagree].

he is a prophet whose teaching we must obey.

he is our prophet [as].

@iv4fb:

by iv4fb: 11:04pm On Sep 14
@sweetnecta, you're still here? Let me explain something to u. Both books were written in different generations, the first one state things the way they are and the next one tries to copy part of the initial one to gain relevance; [b[that's my opinion.[/b] Using passages from the first to defend that the other book is relevant or genuine in this case doesn't sound logical

No one will think your opinion is worth the effort of single stroke on the keyboard if you can not show us the portion copied by the next from the first? And when you provide evidence, please remember that the Quran said the body of pharaoh was recovered so that future generations of people will see it, while the Bibles do not say this. Please do remember that Jesus said a speaking comforter to man, while your Bible is saying it is the holy spirit. We know that the holy spirit does not have a body so he does not have a mouth to speak to man with. When angels talk to man unless as in revelation, angels will take the form of man. The angel wrestling with Jacob is an example. When angel appeared to marry is another example. If the spirit of God is to talk to man, if we are to use the Bible to serve our position here, when Jesus was being baptized, the voice was heard, telling man in word and language that man understands. Why is your another comforter not following either process; become a man or as a shape of a dove, where in both cases man heard him speak in way that what he said was recognizable and recorded?

@Bella3:

by Bélla3(f): 9:18pm On Sep 13
Ya Ubangiji.
Obviously english isnt ur 1st or 2nd language. Let me rephrase my statement

I agree, though it is the language i almost exclusively dream in.

Jesus WAS the current comforter at the time of the disciple, when he was about to depart he promised them another comforter that wil abide forever. The first contact with the other comforter was at the Upper room were they were filled with the Holy spirit. An were given al they needed boldnes, courage, understanding, comfort etc. THE COMFORTER IS STILL DOING THAT TILL TODAY.

Show me boldness, courage, understanding comfort, etc in the verses that outline the ROLE of the Another comforter to the disciples? Before I go further, if the verses are correct, the contact of the another comforter should be beginning and ending with the disciples. The disciples were to hear from the another comforter who will only speak what he heard God speak to him. So what did God tell the another comforter which he would have to repeat to the disciples? Show me boldness, courage, understanding, comfort in it, instead of correction because they are in error? Is there any way anything is corrected unless it is assumed that there is some sort of error, at the time the correction will be made? Tell me what is the error that the disciples already fell into so soon after Jesus left? the details of the correction please? Below is the set of duties or what the another comforter was to do with the disciples. Perchance, you maybe able to fish out courage from the list:

John 16:12-15
12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Hmm.. Ya Ubanangiji raba ni da irin wawancin nan

This is hausa? i dont speak hausa. sorry.

@Tiberius84:

All the other disciples and the whole contemporary church accepted that Paul met Jesus (in a revelation when he got converted from persecuting the early church, but maybe at other times.) The early Christians were very (VERY) strict about what they excepted as a holy writing, and the fact that Paul's letters made the cut proves it that his writings were thoroughly trusted by the whole Christian church as the word of God. If we're talking about Christianity, Paul's writings are just as authoritative as the Gospels. In fact, Luke, the writer of one of the gospels and the Book of Acts, was a traveling companion to Paul.

the last bold proved the points of the muslims that no eye witness wrote about Jesus who preached the Gospel given to him instead of the gospels written about him in the Bible. There is no way if Luke was a disciple will now be relegated to being a companion of Paul instead of Paul being his companion [follower]. How can what Paul provides be the word of God when he stated that he did not receive any guidance from God when he said he was penning his own opinion on marriage and women speaking, including demanding for his own cloak? His demand for his cloak be brought along is now word of God? Do you know that there was no church in the lifetime of Jesus, pointing out your mistake in the first bold? No word in hebrew language of Jesus to mean church. at least not when Jesus was alive who probably familiar with synagogue, if at all.

I think I wasn't clear about my comment about "knowing God correctly." When I wrote about living "a life as one who knows is accepted by God" meant that because I know God's character, I can be assured that my life is safely hidden in His hands, and that I am forgiven for all my sins. I can be sure that He accepts me as His child (a thing that, I think, sounds very scandalously from an Islamic point of view.) And I know that it doesn't depend on my own goodness and worthiness but on His grace and His mercy. I tried to contrast this correct knowledge of God to the sadness of not knowing God correctly, which results in continuous fear from His wrath (as if He was constantly trying to find in me), and trying to become "good enough" for Him (which is impossible!) But one who knows God's character correctly knows it that He would never reject even the worst sinner who repents and humbly comes to Him for forgiveness.

i do hope you read your writing because you shift from knowing God without giving us how to not truly knowing what will happen to you without giving us any reason to now follow you to this opposite position you hold while you insist you that you a son [son should be sure of what dad will do]. I am a slave and I am sure of what my Master will do. In all your argument above Jesus is not present. And if you say that he is present, he already said he will deny you as he will say he does not know you. In either case you may not be a winner.

But, other parts of the law were a very clear and detailed description about how to worship God: the different sacrifices, the different feasts, and the like.

so tell me how believers should pray at night, by contrasting your prayer to the standing, prostrating of face to bowing of the head that Jesus did all night long in Gethsemane? I wanna know if you are following Jesus or you are just writing and not actually following him by actions.

Jesus says in Matthew 5: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." (If you go to a Jewish Pessach dinner, it's almost creepy how every little thing is a reference to Jesus, including His death.)

i can safely say that you may have seen a real jew 'live' few times or even everyday, but you have not attended any of their seder, including the passach [passover] dinner. I have attended many, in my days of ignorance and i am sorry to say, no one ever mentioned Jesus since they do not even believe him. I think you are making your statement about Jesus and passover [a non religious but only ethnic/traditional event] dinner from the Jews for Jesus who are christians, anyway. The tribal jews which includes religious and non religious jews practice the seder because it is an ethnic thing for all of them. Judaism and for the most part all observe passover, whether he or she is religious or not. This is their religion as they say "our tradition is our religion or identity". God does not need them to observe the passover anymore but it a self imposition similar how Jacob forbade himself from eating the hindquarter of cattle, a tradition that the jews includes non consumption of milk with meat. I am sure you dont know this. Go on goggle and research it. the non religious jews and majority of the religious jews have walked away from the slightest remnant of how God wants the jews and all humans to worship Him. While Jesus demonstrated it by his prayer in Gethsemane, only the muslims hold on to it, today. And observing the prophets, the muslims still slaughter in remembrance and in the everlasting tradition of Ibrahim [as] intention of sacrifice of his son in obedience to God.

Now that the worshipping God in that prescribed way no longer makes the same sense,

note that you did not tell us how they used to worship God everyday and what they also do in addition to it on sabbath. You cant even tell us how Jesus worshiped and kept the laws and the prophets and you are now saying these are now irrelevant. How irrelevant are they when Jesus not even a jot should anyone encourage anyone to abolish?

as the one who they pointed at has already come. The letter to the Hebrews, chapter 9 talks about it. In the same letter, in chapter 7 we read: "For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."

how can you accept the bold when it is against the advise of Jesus that abolishing the least of the laws will make one the least in the kingdom of heaven? No wonder Jesus will say to you guys "i do not know ye".

Now, that Jesus came, worship is different.

But Jesus said no one should abolish the laws and the prophets?

Jesus said: "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him." (John 4:23) It means that worshipping God is not about the form,

The same form that Jesus observed and told people to uphold? What is the use of his saying "whosoever abolishes and encourages anyone to do so, he will be the least in the kingdom of heaven?" You can leave Jesus behind and tell him you are moving forward with him. The two cant happen at the same time. If they can, here is your chance to tell us.

it's about being filled with His Spirit and being in His truth.

if spirit was to fill any group, if the bibles recorded Jesus accurately, it was the 12 disciples. there is no carry forward at all.

In fact, our very lives must bring glory to God, be a testimony of His grace, that's real worship.

worship is different. Unless you can show me where Jesus said what you are insinuating, and i hope you will not forget that Jesus said no one should abolish what he himself practiced of the laws and the prophets.

So, I won't be able to give you a full detail, because life is too detailed for that =)

And here you are trying to convince or convert me? This is awful. I can tell you about worship in Islam. It is both internal and external. External; salah, zakat, sadaqah, sawm, hajj, recitation of Quran, etc. Internal: Not associating anything with God, having hope in Him that He will sustain you and forgive you, never losing hope in His Mercy, trusting Him that He will fulfill His Promises and His Mercy is available to you, attaching your heart to Him and your soul ever yearning for Him. I can give you a forever list and all my muslim brothers and sisters on Nairaland and the world at large will accept everyone of them. Islam is complete in the lifetime of Muhammad [sa] and no future comforter will appear in Islam to correct, lead to a different truth, etc like Jesus said of the another comforter to his disciples.

(It might cause some confusion that Christians often call singing songs "worship." But that's just to say that "we're singing to worship God" (e.g. proclaiming how great, merciful, glorious, full of grace He is), it's not saying that "worship equals singing to God" – worship is much more than that.)

there is no place you are told to offer the bold as worship. No place. You have no worship and you can not tell me a prescribed process of worship from God, except that you come to Quran the Islamic Holy Book.

(The Christian view of mercy v.s. grace is this: mercy is being forgiven though I deserve judgment, grace is being given good things even though I deserve the opposite.)

everyone is in judgement except by the Mercy of God. The Mercy of God the Gracious, if you will is Grace from Him because He is Gracious. I dont see anything special and unique to christianity here since Allah is The Gracious.

i am interested to know about the "differences i know about between islam and christianity". You want my email or you wanna do it on NL? I have a thread I will love you to contribute. Its on NL and it is a simple question; i wanna know who is the another comforter who heard from God before he spoke to man. What did he say to the disciples that the Bibles reported Jesus promised the another comforter to? How is he abiding by them forever now that they are all in the graves? What did he say to correct them and from what wrong? You are in for a shock of your life. I will take you to task, InshaAllah. And i hope when you find the truth, you will follow the reality instead of behaving like toto in the wizard of oz?


[b]I will try my best, I am very busy now (I'm already abusing my sleeping time just to answer you smiley) But I'll do my best and I'll definitely go on your thread. Just give me a few days; my brother's wedding is in three days, and it means I have to fly to another country! =)[/b

I wish you brother a happy married life. We will be hear InshaAllah when you are ready to talk about the obvious, about.

I don't quite agree to what cescy wrote there. God will not punish the innocent. Now, of course, the problem is, we can see (really) innocent people around… But still, one thing I know about God: He knows us completely, He will not judge anybody who's not worthy of it, and He will not judge anybody who asks Him for forgiveness, even if His knowledge is incomplete about Him. Why would He, when it's only by His convicting us that we even realize we need to turn to Him: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day," says Jesus in John 6:44. So, even just turning to God and asking His forgiveness is a gift of God!

so you are deceitfully making Jesus God here, thinking you can gloss over it and I will not pay attention? remember i walked into this discussion because the first post you made. so i dont see how cescy is the one I am talking to here, but you? You are the one who brought the story of the arab woman. You are the one who is indecisive if God is Capable all by Himself or it is He and Jesus or Jesus alone that can forgive man, created weak.

I'm not shivering for hating my neighbor either. Since the moment that I got saved by God's grace I know that God adopted me into His family, now He is my Father, not because I'm good or because I'll never sin again (I'm still imperfect, obviously), but [b]on account of His Son: "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God." (John 16:26-27)

you are a son of God on one hand, yet you have to depend on "His son" and you are saying that you are not perfect, after all of that. This is weird because son of God should be perfect, have complete knowledge. You obviously lack both and we already know that Jesus said he did not know everything and he was not God, but God in heaven is Perfect and knows everything. I am certain neither you now he is son of God. The Quran responds to your claim of being son of God by saying why does God punish you: just like He punishes even those of us who say we are slaves? And He punishes severely: you or anyone.

I didn't quite get what cescy meant there... But anyway, Jesus of course wasn't a "Christian," that name was given by the mockers of the "Way" (as the early Christians simply called themselves.) But they thought of being persecuted for Christ their Lord as an honor, and accepted that name. So, "Christian" is just a name, the concept is being a disciple of Christ Jesus. "Christ" is greek for the Jewish word "Messiah" which stands for (God's) "Annointed" – the one who God sent (anointing somebody with oil was the sign of giving authority or assigning a position, such as kingship.) Jesus couldn't have been his own disciple or follower, obviously =)

did Jesus have a religion was my statement to you, even though your religion is christianity? If your religion or method of worship is different from his, you are definitely not following him. "Way" is sirat or deem in arabic. The way is therefore the way of righteousness/straight way; siratal mustaquim from Surah Fatiha. John was anointed. So was Moses an many many more. Your argument is weak and I hereby invite you to Islam. Take it and be benefited.

@Tiberius84:

All the other disciples and the whole contemporary church accepted that Paul met Jesus (in a revelation when he got converted from persecuting the early church, but maybe at other times.) The early Christians were very (VERY) strict about what they excepted as a holy writing, and the fact that Paul's letters made the cut proves it that his writings were thoroughly trusted by the whole Christian church as the word of God. If we're talking about Christianity, Paul's writings are just as authoritative as the Gospels. In fact, Luke, the writer of one of the gospels and the Book of Acts, was a traveling companion to Paul.

the last bold proved the points of the muslims that no eye witness wrote about Jesus who preached the Gospel given to him instead of the gospels written about him in the Bible. There is no way if Luke was a disciple will now be relegated to being a companion of Paul instead of Paul being his companion [follower]. How can what Paul provides be the word of God when he stated that he did not receive any guidance from God when he said he was penning his own opinion on marriage and women speaking, including demanding for his own cloak? His demand for his cloak be brought along is now word of God? Do you know that there was no church in the lifetime of Jesus, pointing out your mistake in the first bold? No word in hebrew language of Jesus to mean church. at least not when Jesus was alive who probably familiar with synagogue, if at all.

I think I wasn't clear about my comment about "knowing God correctly." When I wrote about living "a life as one who knows is accepted by God" meant that because I know God's character, I can be assured that my life is safely hidden in His hands, and that I am forgiven for all my sins. I can be sure that He accepts me as His child (a thing that, I think, sounds very scandalously from an Islamic point of view.) And I know that it doesn't depend on my own goodness and worthiness but on His grace and His mercy. I tried to contrast this correct knowledge of God to the sadness of not knowing God correctly, which results in continuous fear from His wrath (as if He was constantly trying to find in me), and trying to become "good enough" for Him (which is impossible!) But one who knows God's character correctly knows it that He would never reject even the worst sinner who repents and humbly comes to Him for forgiveness.

i do hope you read your writing because you shift from knowing God without giving us how to not truly knowing what will happen to you without giving us any reason to now follow you to this opposite position you hold while you insist you that you a son [son should be sure of what dad will do]. I am a slave and I am sure of what my Master will do. In all your argument above Jesus is not present. And if you say that he is present, he already said he will deny you as he will say he does not know you. In either case you may not be a winner.

But, other parts of the law were a very clear and detailed description about how to worship God: the different sacrifices, the different feasts, and the like.

so tell me how believers should pray at night, by contrasting your prayer to the standing, prostrating of face to bowing of the head that Jesus did all night long in Gethsemane? I wanna know if you are following Jesus or you are just writing and not actually following him by actions.

Jesus says in Matthew 5: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." (If you go to a Jewish Pessach dinner, it's almost creepy how every little thing is a reference to Jesus, including His death.)

i can safely say that you may have seen a real jew 'live' few times or even everyday, but you have not attended any of their seder, including the passach [passover] dinner. I have attended many, in my days of ignorance and i am sorry to say, no one ever mentioned Jesus since they do not even believe him. I think you are making your statement about Jesus and passover [a non religious but only ethnic/traditional event] dinner from the Jews for Jesus who are christians, anyway. The tribal jews which includes religious and non religious jews practice the seder because it is an ethnic thing for all of them. Judaism and for the most part all observe passover, whether he or she is religious or not. This is their religion as they say "our tradition is our religion or identity". God does not need them to observe the passover anymore but it a self imposition similar how Jacob forbade himself from eating the hindquarter of cattle, a tradition that the jews includes non consumption of milk with meat. I am sure you dont know this. Go on goggle and research it. the non religious jews and majority of the religious jews have walked away from the slightest remnant of how God wants the jews and all humans to worship Him. While Jesus demonstrated it by his prayer in Gethsemane, only the muslims hold on to it, today. And observing the prophets, the muslims still slaughter in remembrance and in the everlasting tradition of Ibrahim [as] intention of sacrifice of his son in obedience to God.

Now that the worshipping God in that prescribed way no longer makes the same sense,

note that you did not tell us how they used to worship God everyday and what they also do in addition to it on sabbath. You cant even tell us how Jesus worshiped and kept the laws and the prophets and you are now saying these are now irrelevant. How irrelevant are they when Jesus not even a jot should anyone encourage anyone to abolish?

as the one who they pointed at has already come. The letter to the Hebrews, chapter 9 talks about it. In the same letter, in chapter 7 we read: "For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."

how can you accept the bold when it is against the advise of Jesus that abolishing the least of the laws will make one the least in the kingdom of heaven? No wonder Jesus will say to you guys "i do not know ye".

Now, that Jesus came, worship is different.

But Jesus said no one should abolish the laws and the prophets?

Jesus said: "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him." (John 4:23) It means that worshipping God is not about the form,

The same form that Jesus observed and told people to uphold? What is the use of his saying "whosoever abolishes and encourages anyone to do so, he will be the least in the kingdom of heaven?" You can leave Jesus behind and tell him you are moving forward with him. The two cant happen at the same time. If they can, here is your chance to tell us.

it's about being filled with His Spirit and being in His truth.

if spirit was to fill any group, if the bibles recorded Jesus accurately, it was the 12 disciples. there is no carry forward at all.

In fact, our very lives must bring glory to God, be a testimony of His grace, that's real worship.

worship is different. Unless you can show me where Jesus said what you are insinuating, and i hope you will not forget that Jesus said no one should abolish what he himself practiced of the laws and the prophets.

So, I won't be able to give you a full detail, because life is too detailed for that =)

And here you are trying to convince or convert me? This is awful. I can tell you about worship in Islam. It is both internal and external. External; salah, zakat, sadaqah, sawm, hajj, recitation of Quran, etc. Internal: Not associating anything with God, having hope in Him that He will sustain you and forgive you, never losing hope in His Mercy, trusting Him that He will fulfill His Promises and His Mercy is available to you, attaching your heart to Him and your soul ever yearning for Him. I can give you a forever list and all my muslim brothers and sisters on Nairaland and the world at large will accept everyone of them. Islam is complete in the lifetime of Muhammad [sa] and no future comforter will appear in Islam to correct, lead to a different truth, etc like Jesus said of the another comforter to his disciples.

(It might cause some confusion that Christians often call singing songs "worship." But that's just to say that "we're singing to worship God" (e.g. proclaiming how great, merciful, glorious, full of grace He is), it's not saying that "worship equals singing to God" – worship is much more than that.)

there is no place you are told to offer the bold as worship. No place. You have no worship and you can not tell me a prescribed process of worship from God, except that you come to Quran the Islamic Holy Book.

(The Christian view of mercy v.s. grace is this: mercy is being forgiven though I deserve judgment, grace is being given good things even though I deserve the opposite.)

everyone is in judgement except by the Mercy of God. The Mercy of God the Gracious, if you will is Grace from Him because He is Gracious. I dont see anything special and unique to christianity here since Allah is The Gracious.

i am interested to know about the "differences i know about between islam and christianity". You want my email or you wanna do it on NL? I have a thread I will love you to contribute. Its on NL and it is a simple question; i wanna know who is the another comforter who heard from God before he spoke to man. What did he say to the disciples that the Bibles reported Jesus promised the another comforter to? How is he abiding by them forever now that they are all in the graves? What did he say to correct them and from what wrong? You are in for a shock of your life. I will take you to task, InshaAllah. And i hope when you find the truth, you will follow the reality instead of behaving like toto in the wizard of oz?


[b]I will try my best, I am very busy now (I'm already abusing my sleeping time just to answer you smiley) But I'll do my best and I'll definitely go on your thread. Just give me a few days; my brother's wedding is in three days, and it means I have to fly to another country! =)[/b

I wish you brother a happy married life. We will be hear InshaAllah when you are ready to talk about the obvious, about.

I don't quite agree to what cescy wrote there. God will not punish the innocent. Now, of course, the problem is, we can see (really) innocent people around… But still, one thing I know about God: He knows us completely, He will not judge anybody who's not worthy of it, and He will not judge anybody who asks Him for forgiveness, even if His knowledge is incomplete about Him. Why would He, when it's only by His convicting us that we even realize we need to turn to Him: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day," says Jesus in John 6:44. So, even just turning to God and asking His forgiveness is a gift of God!

so you are deceitfully making Jesus God here, thinking you can gloss over it and I will not pay attention? remember i walked into this discussion because of the op ed, the first post you made. so i dont see how cescy is the one I am talking to here, but you? You are the one who brought the story of the arab woman. You are the one who is indecisive if God is Capable all by Himself or it is He and Jesus or Jesus alone that can forgive man, created weak.

I'm not shivering for hating my neighbor either. Since the moment that I got saved by God's grace I know that God adopted me into His family, now He is my Father, not because I'm good or because I'll never sin again (I'm still imperfect, obviously), but [b]on account of His Son: "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God." (John 16:26-27)

you are a son of God on one hand, yet you have to depend on "His son" and you are saying that you are not perfect, after all of that. This is weird because son of God should be perfect, have complete knowledge. You obviously lack both and we already know that Jesus said he did not know everything and he was not God, but God in heaven is Perfect and knows everything. I am certain neither you now he is son of God. The Quran responds to your claim of being son of God by saying why does God punish you: just like He punishes even those of us who say we are slaves? And He punishes severely: you or anyone.

I didn't quite get what cescy meant there... But anyway, Jesus of course wasn't a "Christian," that name was given by the mockers of the "Way" (as the early Christians simply called themselves.) But they thought of being persecuted for Christ their Lord as an honor, and accepted that name. So, "Christian" is just a name, the concept is being a disciple of Christ Jesus. "Christ" is greek for the Jewish word "Messiah" which stands for (God's) "Annointed" – the one who God sent (anointing somebody with oil was the sign of giving authority or assigning a position, such as kingship.) Jesus couldn't have been his own disciple or follower, obviously =)

did Jesus have a religion was my statement to you, tough your religion is christianity? If your religion is different from his or your method of worship is different from his, you are definitely not following him. "Way" is sirat or deem in arabic. The way is therefore the way of righteousness; siratal mustaquim from Surah Fatiha. John was anointed. So was Moses an many many more. Your argument is not strong and I hereby invite you to Islam. Take it and be benefited.

@Tiberius84:

"Immanuel" literally means "God is with us" in Hebrew, and it's not Jesus' personal name, but His descriptive name: He's God who came to us.

IshmaEl IsraEl all contain God just like EmmanuEl. While the first two were actually called these names, Jesus was called Jesus and not Emmanuel, a direct proof that the name did not stick, considering that "God is not a man or son of man". Jesus said he was a an and son of man. Think about it.

... king, ruler which he was not within the jewish people,

he failed the litmus test with those he was exclusively send to. how do you claim the completely impossible for him then? maybe the way he is your God, the evidences opposing reality?

His kingship, as He explained to the Pharisees whose picture of Messiah was that of a military leader, was "not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." (John 18)

God in His Wisdom have used the Bible to answer you, pointing to me the confusion of this statement. We had good leaders who were kings and rulers in this world. David and his son Solomon [as] were 2 examples. There was a law giver who was a judge. His name was Moses [as]. The Lord of heavens is also the Lord of this world, and He is One God Whom Jesus prostrated to. If you are saying that Jesus didnt fight makes him special, there were many prophets who didnt fight because fighting was not prescribed to them. John [as] was one of them. So was his father, Zacharia [as].

But i need to remind you that the condition of Jesus was the same as the condition of Moses in Egypt before exodus and the condition of Muhammad [sa] in Makka before hijra to Madina. Both, God did not make fighting and victorious for them until they had a separate community of "believers" behind them away from the idolaters. Jesus never was a leader of no standing community except a small one; the 12 disciples. Do you realize that Jesus asked swords be acquired by the disciples? And he asked people to stand guard, though they fell asleep? That when they came to arrest him some ear was chopped off? I tell you, the reason Jesus didnt fight was simple; fight was not prescribed for him, hence the crowd that followed him were fainted at heart and with them being of "little faith" he knew any battle will be suicidal. And prophets [as] do not practice suicidal, and must be unlike Samson.

Jesus, before He died, talked about sending the comforter (or helper), and it's universally understood parallel to His statement after He resurrected: "He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, 'which,' He said, 'you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.'" (Acts 1:4-5) And it indeed happened not much time later, as we read about it in the beginning of Acts, chapter 2: "When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

so i ask you has Jesus returned as he promised the same disciples to really show me that it may be possible that the event of the day of pentecost may even be the event of the another comforter coming to the disciples? If Jesus pass in one; I will be back in your lifetime guys. It may help us accept that the holy spirit which is unseen is the another comforter that will hear from God. Then speak to man. {I often wonder if God needs to wait to hear God before God speaks to man?].

If Jesus that was body and flesh didnt fulfill his personal promise to those who knew him, how was another comforter which is spirit going to come because Jesus said so? It does not make sense because if you are not making good on your promise, how can you vouch for another entity and expect those who have sound mind to believe you? By the way what new lesson did the another comforter teach? What correction did he make? Show me where the disciples recorded it. By the way anyone who did less than what Jesus said the another comforter will do is not the another comforter. If the holy spirit did not tell the disciples what God told him, he failed being the another comforter. If we are still waiting for the return of Jesus, yet those he promised already died, they may not be the people he was actually going to return in their lifetime, in the same way that the another comforter was not meant for them, because they may not have fell into any error that correction must be made to. How about 610 years after the statement if we are still expecting Jesus to return "immediately" while still waiting after over 2,000 years?

I agree that all God is asking for is sincere repentance. As James (in chapter 4) quotes the Proverbs of King Solomon: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

I know that Islam has very clear rules about what to do and how to live. God, when He gave the law to Moses, gave similarly clear rules. But, nobody could keep the law! I mean, people could keep it more or less, but if somebody breaks the tiniest part of the law, he breaks the entire law. We learn it from the letter to the Romans (chapter 7) that the law is good, but it's purpose was not to make us good, but to show us that we're evil. We know we are sinners because we break the law. Everybody does things that even his own conscience says: "IT'S BAD." Actually, Paul in this same letter, in chapter 1, says that those who doesn't know the written law of Moses will be judged by the law God put in their own conscience.

Notice you praise Islam. Let me praise Islam more clearly in the contest of sin, forgiveness, etc. We do not have perfect humans so God allows and expects mistakes, sins and seeking repentance which He accepts. A person who consumes alcohol will be said to have broken all the laws in Islam. The person who steals will not be looked at in the same way as a person who performed adultery or as an outright disbeliever who is not a muslim who practices idolatry or other forms of association with God. But forgiveness through personal sincere repentance wipe off any and all sins. A disbeliever has his sin of disbelief wiped off when he enters Islam by making the declaration. I see how Merciful God is in Islam instead of the rigidity of God you expressed in judaism where a mere jot for a moment is considered disregard of everything or in christianity where human blood is needed, the same one you said shed his blood had clearly told you he will say to a lot of you that he does not know you. I am grateful to God that today is friday, a day to renew my faith even more so and I know that God has promised He will allow intercession and accept of Muhammad [sa] on behalf of believers.

@tiberius84:

That was during the three years, before He died. You might notice that even then, He did set free the woman's daughter from being possessed by demons.

i am ashamed for you who continue to say a prophet of God died a cursed man. If you say he was God the whole believers are ashamed for you. Why would God want to be on earth, change His Nature away fro being God, die a gruesome death in the hands of a few from a tribe, left for dead on a tree, hung, etc and finally can not get 3 nights and 3 days right?

Jesus did come to die. He said so, as quoted before: "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

i didnt see death in the bold though he said he can for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Who are the "lost sheep of the house of Israel"? Can you tell me if any Nigerian in this, anyone outside the jews?

After He died and rose, right before He ascended to heaven, He said: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and (as your going) make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." It's in Matthew 20. But even in the Old Testament, many prophecies talk about it. Genesis 12, for example, where God blesses Abraham: "in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Are all the descendants of Abraham [as] only from Jacob? Only from Isaac? Not so. The one who was alive when Abraham was blessed as you quoted was Ishmael [as] who God took responsibility in naming him. He was part of the covenants because circumcision to mark this covenant was performed on him by his father Abraham. Isaac came many years later. When Yahweh said Ishmael would be a blessed and great nations, you do not expect it will be only oil or abaya and jilbab, covering the body only, but will lack spiritual frontline? God is not unjust and He was not going to change on Ishmael. Ishmael never was recorded to be an evil man or suspected of any evil. It will not be surprising that his bloodline will be a prophet [sa], hence fitting the man Jesus said will come after him to convince the world of sin, hear from God and speak to man about it, etc.

I say the above about Muhammad [sa] to show you that your talking about authority being given suddenly to Jesus of the Bible does mean little. After all the same Jesus, satan was reported to have told him "all things on earth has been given me, so worship me so that I can give them to you". Has that been the outcome, finally? For me and the muslims, we say that is not the case and what was said about Jesus in the Bible if more than being prophet of God, is absolutely rejected.

If Jesus is God, He can say "fool" – first of all, He has the knowledge. Second, God (unlike us) is the Creator, He has the right to judge.

and you had said God hates sin above. Does God go against His Own rules? Could you tell me an incident that God changed His Own rule? Please dont quote Trinity or man God as example because this discussion is all about those fallacies. The Holy God will not warn people from evil and then indulge in it.

But it's not even that. When Jesus says that ("whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire" He's comparing the written law to God's actual requirements. The Jews tried to honor the letter of the law, but they didn't care about what was behind it, and that's what Jesus was talking about. You can see how He went through many of the commandments in that same chapter (Matthew 5.)

Do you know what are the requirements of God and what are behind them? The jews who didnt care about what is behind the law were the "lost sheep" and I am sure the whole christendom has violated the greatest of the essence of the Law [God is One and He is not on earth, not human but Unique and does not act like human, Capable and Independent enough to do all things befitting Him, while all depend on Him, He does not depend or in need of anything. All worship befits Him from human and other creations as He had commanded upon each group].

The problem is that everybody sins. Let's assume I live a perfect life. I also do many good things. If I steal something, will I not be judged? (I'm talking about justice, not that it's "not a big deal." ) Would my good deeds undo (completely erase) that one small thing? Could I stand up before God and say: "I am good enough even for You, I deserve to go to heaven"?

But why will somebody else be standing up saying he is good enough "even for You [God]" to be this criminal [he points to you as the criminal], saying to God "you [the criminal] deserves to go to heaven? If the first is not make sense and I agree with you that it is arrogance. So is the other. And Jesus reinforced it by saying "The Only One Who is Good is God". Remember that?

The only reason I can stand up before God is because He forgave me. And the only reason He could forgave me is because Jesus died for me. And the only reason Jesus died for me is so that He can forgive me...

God does not love you if the bold is factored in. Love is direct and not indirect, even among mortal. Why does God to love His creatures because of another creature or indirectly? God forgives all sins, as long as you acknowledge Him by getting away from the sin of not fully recognizing Him as your Cherisher Lord. God didn't need anyone to permit Him before He created. He created because He is the Creator. He will forgive because He is the Forgiver of those who seek forgiveness. Remember Adam and Eve? They were forgiven while arrogant satan was not. The difference was one group sort forgiveness and the arrogant didnt.

The judgment is death, but "it was not possible that He should be held by it." (Acts 2:24)

Every soul shall taste death. Everyone. None of your saints is here today. They are all dead. And I am sure you will take them to be righteous with God. All who have been righteous have died. Jesus and ELijah and another [Enoch] were lifted up. No one says Elijah died on earth. Thats even a bigger miracle. Yet no one claims he is God. The bone of dead Elias or another rose somebody from the dead. It i a dead argument that you are presenting to support fallacy. Your heart is not accepting it and you term it "mystery". And unfortunately, after all that you claim for Jesus you will present seeking forgiveness by individuals from God. Jesus already said some of y'all he will deny. I wonder why? You you know, after you claimed he had died for you? What is the value of the death even to him who says he will deny you? What value does the dying have for you, if he denies you and you still fail and sentenced?

@tiberius84;

by tiberius84(m): 1:09am

Eye for eye was not a command about what to perform, it was a restriction to how you could take revenge. Actually, revenge itself was considered forbidden if the act wasn't premeditated (that's what the refuge tows, set up all over the land, were about.) Before the law, it was the same cycle of revenge as it still is at many parts of the world. The law restricted it, revenge had to be of the same proportion, and it couldn't be a reason for counter-revenge.

You have presented a defense for Islam because all revenges are discouraged so much so that you can it is forbidden for those who truly fear Allah and hope in Him for Mercy. We still have a town as refuge where no fight or violence is permissible. It is Makka.

About Woodstock and practicality. Jesus didn't try to be practical but He was explaining what was behind the letter of the law. The Jews were happy to do the visible things but forget about the spirit of the law.

Is any group more spiritual than the muslims?

God couldn't let sin unforgiven, because He doesn't only loving, he's also perfect, therefore just. ]b]Would you consider a human judge, who let's a child-Molester and murderer go free saying "I forgive you", merciful, or just corrupted and raving mad?[/b] God can't do that.

God should be better than a judge who is governed by the law of the land. Remember the president is even under the law of the nation? They saw "no one is above the law". Does this apply to Yahweh, too? This is to show you that Allah could, while you say Yahweh couldnt. Who will ask or question or challenge God if He shows abundant Mercy where you expect "perfect Justice"? Yet the attorneys seeking leniency for guilty defendant ask the court to temper mercy with justice, meaning give us mercy oh court [the judge on the bench], instead of giving us the full weight of the justice [such a court may just put the defendant on probation instead of throwing in prison]. God should be better. Allah is Perfect in Mercy, Full of Mercy.

God, however, provided a way through the death of Jesus. The payment was made. That's how you can go to God and ask for His mercy: because the way has already been made.

And Jesus didnt see it fit to say this while he said I was sent but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel? This your statement it gets as he be o. Not true at all.

Actually, Abraham was justified by His faith in God's promise, even though it didn't happen yet (Jesus came hundreds of years later) and he didn't know about the exact details. But, his faith in God was counted for him as righteousness.

The Friend of God depends on Jesus or promise of Jesus? Give us the verse or verses from the lips of Abraham or Jesus or anyone in between. You will not find it. Never mind what Paul said Jesus said.

And that's where we arrive at the same conclusion about asking for mercy: yes, you can go to God and ask for His mercy, and He will forgive. The difference between our understanding is that I know that it cost God a lot that He can be so forgiving toward us.

It does not cost God anything to forgive. He, God is Forgiving, Merciful. He owns Forgiveness. Which is of greater effort; creation of man or forgiveness of man? If is creation, then forgiving the creation is easier. Look, a designer of bridge will spend more energy to build it than what it will take him to maintain it, repairing bit by bit so that it does not crumble like that. Allah says your Lord is your Maintainer. Allah is Superior in His Forgiveness by His Mercy.

I agree that the doctrine of Trinity is not a concept that can be solved by math

Nothing in christianity makes sense. Nothing, except what Islam agrees in. If you know anything out this, let me know.

(however, even though 1+1+1 is not equal 1, 1x1x1 is; it's not a solution,

How about 1-1-1? 2 formulas destroyed Trinity.

it's just showing that there are more ways to look at it the same thing.) This subject has been an issue of much debate, and it's quite possible that it simply can't be understood by man – even if it is so, it doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense.

And you are a man? God is not the Author of confusion. At least not giving weak man something he cant make simple sense of. I hope you dont think you are talking to people who dont reason?

God isn't that of confusion, but God is awesome. Let's imagine I have a cat. I'm not confusing, yet my little cat can't understand everything about my nature and my purposes. I'm just way beyond the capacity of it's little brain, there's nothing to do about it. Still, it can trust me for giving it food every morning. Not that I actually have a cat =)

thank God there is a pavlov salivating dog experiment. Your cat will expect you to give him cat food in the day at some point when you are up and moving about. If for days you dont feed him as you used to do that he had come to associate you with, then you have created confusion. This is similar to God forgiving Adam, Eve an all He had forgiven before, until you claimed a slanted process of forgiveness for God and heap it all on Jesus who came for only the lost sheep of Israel. You are confusing all. Thank God I have comfort in Allah Who does not ask for blood of anyone before He Forgives repenting persons.

Anyway I wasn't trying to prove Trinity, I just needed it for my explanation because this is one of Christianity's defining doctrines, clearly seen in how the Bible describes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

unworkable equation for One God i say if 3 elements are there to prove 1. 1 is enough for 1 as evidence of 1 as complete 1.

About Jesus as servant. He Himself made himself "of no reputation."

You have no evidence or proof to support your baseless statement. It must come from God and or Jesus without anything or verse from the bibles debunking it.

It was a choice He made,

No. He was a servant and nothing else. Servant like servants before him; Noah, Abraham to name a few.

to give up on being as God, and come and live like a man, just so that He can reconcile mankind with Himself.

I dont wanna poke fun at you because this is a serious matter. But Jesus is no God because there is One God. That God is the Lord that Jesus prostrated to. You are insulting our intelligence with your making the "son of man" more than son of man and you are no better than a hindu in faith in God with your statement about Jesus as God. Remember the hindus make everything God, too? You are in a bad company, man.

Also, servanthood is considered contemptible in human terms, but Jesus says in Luke 22: "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave – just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." – Jesus places servanthood (giving yourself for others) as the highest thing, and He wasn't only talking about it, He was the greatest example. God stooped down to us nobodies, coming to us as a mere man, then dying for us, who deserved nothing. Only so that He can forgive us our sins and give us mercy.

When did Jesus ruled over any gentile, if you remember him saying from your Bibles "I am only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"? when was a gentle from the house of Israel, and now a lost sheep from it? Please give up bad speech.

I read this story in an article from William C. Chittick about Muhammad where, in the end of the story, he says: "God puts into hellfire only those who refuse to go anywhere else." I absolutely agree. God is reaching out to everyone, every day, trying to convince them of their sinfulness, and their need for help from Him, and it takes a lifetime of resisting Him to go to hell (exactly as the story above tells.) Anybody who humbles himself and accepts he need God's forgiveness will be forgiven. Christian or Muslim or Hindu. God (Allah) is merciful indeed, He judges the heart, He doesn't judge one's knowledge about Him.

I will ignore your listing of Christian or Muslim or Hindu, but focus on the reality that you ignore and try to spin a web around it. Muhammad [sa] says in that quote that there is no blood of anyone, neither innocent or the guilty to avoid hellfire but enter Paradise. I think you missed that part. Thats the Superiority of the Mercy and Forgiveness from Allah over fake Gods or maybe fake concepts of God.

@ol'dirty; you are here now. i am sure you didn't have to fight your way to get in like entering a high school dining hall.
enjoy the ride and dont be an ol' grouch. there is no e mosque since there is no e salat, e quran reading or e dkirAllah, the
3 things real mosques are meant for.

welcome to fun and obviously a good debate. stay honest in your dialogue here.

and we think like the rest of normal people; not with our elbows, but the brain and feel with the heart.

whats your question and maybe somebody might take you on?

^^^ I wonder if Jesus is the current comforter, even now that he is not abiding with the disciples, when is the another comforter coming to abide with these dead disciples.

bella3, whatever that language you wrote up there, this muslim does not understand it and i really dont care to know it or the meaning of what you wrote.

my question is unanswered and you are digging more dirt to cover yourself up when you gleefully present Jesus as "abiding forever" comforter, while you could have been on a safer though peril road at the end that Paul is the another comforter. denying Muhammad [sa] who is clearly with a Book of Guidance that Billions read currently is like anyone denying that Larry Silverstein didn't say "pull it" just few hours before Building 7 of the world trade center complex fell without anything "pulling it down".

we know the another comforter was to come after Jesus must have left. if Jesus is still the current comforter, then we must be expecting the another comforter still, rendering the opinion that what happen according to the Bibles on the day of pentecost as fluke. If you say Jesus is the another comforter because you say he is current, we will as you where is he since all the people in christianity are awaiting him, still?

either way you slice the onion, your eyes are definitely going to tear up.

^^^ I wonder if Jesus is the current comforter, even now that he is not abiding with the disciples, when is the another comforter coming to abide with these dead disciples.

bella3, whatever that language you wrote up there, this muslim does not understand it and i really dont care to know it or the meaning of what you wrote.

my question is unanswered and you are digging more dirt to cover yourself up when you gleefully present Jesus as "abiding forever" comforter, while you could have been on a safer though peril road at the end that Paul is the another comforter. denying Muhammad [sa] who is clearly with a Book of Guidance that Billions read currently is like anyone denying that Larry Silverstein didn't say "pull it" just few hours before Building 7 of the world trade center complex fell without anything "pulling it down".

we know the another comforter was to come after Jesus must have left. if Jesus is still the current comforter, then we must be expecting the another comforter still, rendering the opinion that what happen according to the Bibles on the day of pentecost as fluke. If you say Jesus is the another comforter because you say he is current, we will as you where is he since all the people in christianity are awaiting him, still?

either way you slice the onion, your eyes are definitely going to tear up.

@Bella3:

by Bélla3(f): 11:46pm On Sep 12

Sweetnecta:


@Bella3: Sis. Where did i insult you and how? Forgive me if I did. But omo, you didnt turn the other cheek. You are not following orders o.


Yes. The jews say Yahweh. You christians say Jehovah. You even shout Hallelujah not knowing that I will find Ellah the God of Jesus there.


Yahweh is a title, too? seriously?


yes it is, you're refering to God.

i would not know what your "yes is is, along with you are referring to God is/are answering my post, or posts above. You are too vague in your responses. Let me just assume that you are saying that Yahweh is a title and I am referring to God by it. If I am correct, then you have failed religion 101 because every religion has a Name for its God, except Christianity according to you, if I assumed rightly.

The Jews have Names for their God. Yahweh is an example. Eloi is another. Jesus according to the Bible shouted Ellah, instead of Yahweh, Jehovah, Eloi, Abba so much loudly that they jews mocked that he was calling Elias.

I told u i was offended doesnt mean i didnt turn the other cheek.

You have to turn the other cheek first. But which cheek did you turn and how? I didnt feel any contact on any cheek or did I miss it? So why are you offended? If this is how turning the other cheek is on you and the feeling of hitting the first cheek by me "is" then i am certain its not a quality of patience. Islam says overlook their wrong and forgive them of their sins/offenses.

You see, am told nt to hold things against people,tell them where they went wrong rather than judge, and dats exactly what i just did.

poor man argument when the reach actually forgives. How is it that you did not say what my errors were, where I erred exactly. If you wrong me, I will tell you what I take as an offense, if you ask me. If you dont I will overlook it.

by Bélla3(f): 11:49pm On Sep 12
The current comforter then was Jesus.

but Jesus is not with us, now. so the 'abide forever' is an epic fail.

@Nakash:

by nakash: 3:53pm
So Jesus is the son of God from him saying that he will ask his Father.

Sweetnecta: @Bella3 above question. Here is your answer in the quote:

Jesus is not son of God more than the arrogant jews saying they are the tribe of God, exclusively from other humans, all created by this Glorious God. You have taking their bait and you are literally behaving like them. I remember the sons of God mating with daughters of men. Other sons of God are in the Bibles, too. Where do you place them? They are less children of God than Jesus am sure because their mothers are not virgins like Mary?


@Bella3:

by Bélla3(f): 7:44pm
Sweetnecta do you have to insult me?

Sis. Where did i insult you and how? Forgive me if I did. But omo, you didnt turn the other cheek. You are not following orders o.

Do you seriously think God can have a name?

Yes. The jews say Yahweh. You christians say Jehovah. You even shout Hallelujah not knowing that I will find Ellah the God of Jesus there.

Jehovah(usually attached to another name) is a title.

Yahweh is a title, too? seriously?

Christ is a title,[/quote[what about Jesus, title too?


[quote]Comforter is another title.

whats his name since Jesus is the name of the one with christ as tirle?

The power of God is refered to as comforter because that is what the Holy Spirit does.

No one says the holy spirit as comforter is the power of God. Show me that verse, sharp, sharp. By the way in another there is always a former or current of the same time. Who was former or current before Jesus spoke about another comforter?

JESUS IS LORD.

Absolutely not because Jesus has a Lord.
How far now, woman? I want the learned me to show their faces; Frosbel, Olaadegbu, etc. They are all yellow belly.

@cescy, et al including tiberius84:

by cescky(m): 12:59pm

tiberius84: https://www.nairaland.com/newpost?topic=1042498&post=12106490



Hello ... E_monkey? Nice name =) I am a Christian and, quite accidentally, this morning I heard a woman talk about how and why she became a Christian. She's from Iran, she was a Muslim, then she moved to England. There, she found her brother became a Christian. She didn't like it, of course =) Her point was that just as Jesus (as a great prophet) raised the level of standard from the law of Moses, Muhammad also raised the level of Jesus' teaching into an even higher level. So, as Islam is already perfect, why should she go backwards, to a lower level? It didn't make sense. So, she refused to listen and, after a while, she asked her brother to shut up about it because she wasn't interested.

But, eventually, she visited her brother's friend because they promised they won't talk to her about Christianity. However, as she was talking to the man's wife in one corner, her brother and the man were reading the Bible in another, and she could hear them. They were talking about a portion we call "the sermon on the mount." It's in Matthew's account about the life of Jesus, in chapter five. What caught her attention was what Jesus said in this portion:



This started her thinking because this concept of revenge ( "eye to eye" ) is in the law of Moses, but she realized Jesus took it to a much higher level than that. So, she thought, it's Islam that brought it back to the lower level that it was before! Now, of course, she didn't accept it right then because she wanted to know more, she couldn't just discard everything she believed in, she didn't want to having to go back and forth between the two, it's too important a matter for that. But that's what started her out, so I thought I could share it with you.

The farewell address of the messenger [sa] is at least equal to the sermon on the mount of Biblical Jesus. I have read both of them and his seasoned heart knows the truth. You people should get the farewell address for yourself to know the truth. "eye for eye" was never out of fashion the very reason that even the unproven adulteress was going to be stoned. Allah allowed the full scope of justice among humans to reign by allwoing

1}. Those with hard heart seek their just justice by allowing the eye for eye.

2]. Those with softer heart to seek justice and mercy by receiving compensation in "blood money" for what they lost.

3]. Those who seek mercy and noting else to leave it to God without eye for eye or blood money.


When you look at the above compared to the eye for eye only where the world will become blind in few generations, and the forgive all by turning the other cheek where the strongest will survive, the rest dead and rotten before their time, you will quickly see that those who value lives will not dare to hurt another live because he fears the possible revenge of the eye for eye or a big hit in the pocket sending him to poor house. He does not know whether the potential victim will forgive as in no 3.


The eye for eye is like the wild wild west while turning the other cheek is like woodstock. neither is practical in any place or city or time like today's new york city or lagos, etc. It is what Allah says with the 3 options that will fit a city like new york where everyone mind his own business, unless when truly needed to interfere in stopping evil or propagating goodness.

The basic teaching of Christianity is that man is sinful but God is just, so God can't let man's sin without punishment. We all already sinned so, for a perfect God, we can't be "good enough." But God is also loving, and he found a way to be able to not to have to punish us, but for that, I'll need to talk about this doctrine called "trinity" first.

you people based on your proposition of Jesus speech in the sermon on the mount have made Yahweh worse than yourselves. Yahweh will not let sin go while you mere mortal that seek His Mercy will let sin, wrong as plucking your eye out go! what a load of crock. If this is what convince the woman, then she truly belongs to confused state of mind.

The Islamic take of God is that He is Merciful and no one should lose hope of His Mercy, Forgiveness. And no one has to die for you, but only your heartfelt sincere repentance is needed. How easy is that!

From the Bible, we can see that there are three separate persons (with their own separate will) with the attributes that only God can have (things like all-knowing, all-powerful, one who we can rightly worship, etc.) Now, at the same time, we know that there is ONE God. Jesus talked about his Father, and the Jews wanted to stone him, because he made himself equal with God. And that's a terrible sin, except if you are indeed equal with God. Now, when we talk about Jesus as the Son, this must not be interpreted in the context of human procreation, because it has nothing to do with it. In fact, the Bible says the Son has always existed, just as the Father. It's about the relationship between them: that the Son, while being equal with the Father, still submits to His will. How can God be one and yet three persons? I think it's okay that God is great enough that we can't understand or explain everything about him =)

if i have a dime for every confused statement! At least the last bold is very confusing begging the statement that God is not the Author of confusion. How is 3 equal to 1 or 1 equal to 3 in the first bold? Are 3 equals not 3 while 1 is always 1? if i have 3 pies of pizza, how can i make 1 pie of same size as any one of them out of them without munching up 2 full pies slices? Does all powerful, all knowing, the One Who all right of absolute worship belongs need to share these Rights/Qualities with anyone and still have the Absolute right, Alone? Jesus did not make himself equal with God from his own lips; here is an illustration of it for you, "Of my own power I can do nothing. . ." His disciples supported him by saying "Your servant Jesus who You sent". There is no place that you will have servant equal to the MASTER WHO sent him. No place. And how is a partner submitting to his partner? Even a wife dont submit to husband all the time. From my own family experience. I dont to every business partner. sometimes, the subordinate has better idea that the boss must follow for the bottom line. This your partnership between Jesus and God where it is Jesus that is always submitting is fake partnership.

So, back to the story. God can't just forget about my sin, because he's just.

Thats God you have painted worse than what Jesus said in the sermon on the mount. Allah can forgive your sin by His Mercy. Justice of Allah is overcome by the Mercy of Allah.

But he wants to forgive me, because he loves us (though we don't deserve it.) That's why Jesus came to the world.

Jesus said I am sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. No other reason.

All of us, when we die, have to pay for our sins. Jesus, as God (and yes, that's a very strong statement, one that needs proof!) lived a perfect life,

How can Jesus be God or lived a perfect life if he said "Oh Israel, our God is One Lord" and "whoever says fool to anyone, he will end up in hell for it". Then Jesus said "Fool". What do you think is the condition of Jesus now; God and perfect life from his own lips, above and the fact that his disciples called him and knew him as servant of God? There is no one who is good but God Alone is God said Jesus of the Bibles.

so he could take upon himself our sins: he died and paid the price instead of us

Hogwash because the sin of the sinner is upon him. so is the good of the one who does good, says the Bibles. it will be absolute injustice if the sinner is left alone but punish the doer of God, or deprive the doer of good but reward the evil doer with that good deed. Allah is Equitable, Most Forgiving.

(another really hard to accept thing: that God would die for us...)

Because lies are hard to accept or swallow and you cant explain it with straight face.

But death couldn't keep him captive, he rose again, winning over death once and forever.

these are lame statements lacking factual supports. Once dead, then judgment has not happened on him and proof the deceit of your statement are really all the statements that are false from the Bible; from he will be called Immanuel which he was never called, king, ruler which he was not within the jewish people, to the another comforter which what he said cant be pointed out to returning in the lifetime of the disciples, which has not been met even now that the disciples have been dead for 2 millennial.

God is not only willing, he wants to forgive us, but can he forgive somebody who doesn't accept he's at fault? So, we need to come to God and confess that we're sinful, and ask him to forgive us. And he will!

This is God's Position and no muslim does less than willing to approach Him. Proof? Muslim seek forgiveness constantly; Astaghafirullah.

He wants to, Jesus came and died for this very reason!

Jesus did not come to die but came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Whats a lost sheep in this case? Those who deviated from what Moses brought; Hear,oh Israel.Your God is One Lord.

All we need to do is admit we're at fault and ask for his help. Yet, even this is something we can't do without God's work in our life first. Even realizing we need God's forgiveness is God's work in our life... We really have nothing to be proud of.

Neither is Jesus the only comforter, since he said there is another comforter to come. No one is good except God, Alone. And no one should be arrogant, hence Jesus was humble.

Yet we are proud and we like to think we have it all together. We want to work for it, to be able to say "yes God, I deserve your reward!" But we simply can't be good enough for God, we already failed, we can't undo all the bad that we already did.

There is forgiveness in Islam, coming from God directly just by you seeking repentance.

So, this is probably the biggest revelation from Christianity: we can't please God, we can't reach him. We were hopeless, but God scooped down to us and reached out for us.

In Islam, we can please God Who says He is pleased with us when we obey Him. We can reach God Who has said we should seek Him alone, directly. We are not hopeless because God says we should not lose hope in His Mercy. The Veil between the sinner and Allah is remove by sincere repentance. A servant is closest to his Lord when he prostrates his face to his Lord.

Here are two of my favorite quotes:
The first one is from the apostle Paul's letter to the Philippians, chapter 2, the second is from his letter to the Ephesians, chapter 2.

Can we let Jesus the servant of God speak for himself instead of bringing up Paul who is not a disciple, but just a follower of the followers of Jesus?

Also, about the "burning in hell" thing. I believe that what matters is whether somebody humbles himself and turns to God or Allah (the name doesn't matter, there is only God who created the world) with an understanding that he can't be good enough, and ask for his help. God will not refuse a humble man (but He resists the proud – the one who thinks he can be good enough even for God Himself.) I believe that knowing all the correct things about God is important because then I can live a life as one who knows is accepted by God. But I also know that God is good and he won't condemn anybody who turns to him, no matter by what name or with how much or how little understanding.

Allah is Arabic Name for The God. The same way Yahweh is the Hebrew Name for The God. But thats beside the point. Pay attention to the second bold. In it you said God must be known correctly. Now tell me how do you know what Yahweh want? Give me the full detail of how to worship Him.One example please. In Islam I can give you the salah from a to z as my example.

Sorry I wrote this much. I can talk so much about these things, the reason behind my security in God's grace and forgiveness. I want to share it with as many as I can. And yes, if you are interested, I can write you more about the teachings of Christianity, or if you are interested, about some of the differences I know about between Islam and Christianity.

i am interested to know about the "differences i know about between islam and christianity". You want my email or you wanna do it on NL? I have a thread I will love you to contribute. Its on NL and it is a simple question; i wanna know who is the another comforter who heard from God before he spoke to man. What did he say to the disciples that the Bibles reported Jesus promised the another comforter to? How is he abiding by them forever now that they are all in the graves? What did he say to correct them and from what wrong? You are in for a shock of your life. I will take you to task, InshaAllah. And i hope when you find the truth, you will follow the reality instead of behaving like toto in the wizard of oz?

NICE one,
GOD requires only two, things from each and every one of us,we can not be righteous enough for him , holy enough, etc

ONLY TWO LAWS THE LAW OF LOVE(LOVE GOD WITH UR ALL,AND WHERE IS HE? IN UR NEIGHBOR, THAT IS LOVE UR NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF)(WHEN U LOVE UR NEIGHBOR AS UR SELF DO NOT BE DECEIVED U ARE ONLY LOVING GOD,AND WHEN U GIVE GOD,HE MUST REPAY,)SO IMAGINE THE DANGERS OF HATING UR NEIGBOUR

forcing the Hands of God and you then expect Him to punish the innocent for you, yet you shiver about the consequences of what He will do if you hate your neighbor?

LAW OF FAITH (AS YOU BELEIVE IN LIFE,WHAT EVER YOU BLEIVE IN LIFE, IT SHALL BE UNTO U, IRRESPECTIVE OF IF YOUR BELIEF IS HARMFUL TO YOU OR NOT, ITS UNTO U AS U BELIEVE)BELIEVE IN GOOD THINGS HAPPENING,THIS LAW IS FOR UR PROVISION AND SURVIVAL ON THIS PLANET(what is fear but belief in evil,inverted faith)FAITH: FOR THE NEXT WORLD HEAVEN, THAT IS ACCEPTING JESUS AS LORD AND SAVIOUR AND KNOWING YOUR ONLY PASSING THROUGH THIS PLANET

Invented faith, a christian says forgetting the people of antioch. Was Jesus a christian? It not, then that was your example of what you called invented faith.


Here is the reason I bothered to respond to this piece; Islam can not be maligned and I will not at least keep quite, especially when all i need to do is to respond with the pen.

the world of the children of israel; judea [two states], irael [10 states], each continent was according to the state tribes/ethnicity, similar to the yoruba nation[s].

@Bella3:

by Bélla3(f): 3:40am

Sweetnecta: @Bella3: so you finally see it and all you can say is good?



let me be playful for a moment. Can you give me the name of the Holy spirit, if God is Yahweh/Jehovah and son of man is Jesus/Christ? I know you never thought about why the holy spirit is the one that has no name among the Gods of the Christians. And you will say Yahweh/Jehovah is a Spirit and Jesus/Christ is a solid body. Both have names, and the holy spirit who is clearly a spirit does not.

I will leave the above for something you will think about and an inspiration for you to enter Islam because the holy spirit is a creation of God and a servant of God. The holy spirit is an angel and his name is Angel Gabriel. See how consistent I am. Islam gave me the name and the nature and role of Holy Spirit.

It will be inconsistent for a prophet like Jesus to say to the disciples who are mortals like him [all humans in every respect and no proof that any is more than that]that they will get something that will remain with them forever. What will be the purpose of the holy spirit on them now they are all dead? Live forever, humans dont. Hence, it will be inconsistent to say something will remain with them forever; forever in the grave, maybe, but it is now useless for them to have the holy spirit still because they as dead people. You make a failed prophesy out of that. And you kill the idea that christians have about Jesus with your humans dont live forever, since you said Jesus died on a tree, hung. Jesus said he was a human by his "son of man", 'prophets do not have honor among his "their" people/hometown', and the disciples saying "Jesus a man approved by God", 'Jesus Your servant who You sent'.

break it down, am alergic to long posts.

i wonder the type of education nigeria is practicing today? is reading forbidden you, bella3? you can't even research out "another comforter" from your own Bibles. it was this muslim seeking biblical clarification that had to post chapter and verse up for you. heck. i cant be bothered with you if you are this lazy to do anything at this your young age.

But to your First question, the power of God(holy spirit) 's name is comforter or consellor for people like you who need a name.

thats not a name but a title. from your Bibles, God's Name are many; Yahweh, Jehovah, etc, and Ellah from the lips of Jesus [search it. Jesus said Ellah and not Yahweh or Jehovah]. Fro your Bibles, the name of god the son is Jesus. His title is christ. Whats the name of the god the holy spirit who you titled the another comforter [though you cant tell us who was or were the former comforter[s] and why holy spirit fit the another comforter]?

I dont think the power of God needs a name because it wil forever comfort the heart of those who deligently seek him

it is your opinion from your "think" clause. The another comforter, if Jesus in the Bible actually said what was recorded for him, was not meant for you or even Paul, but for the 12. 12 it was and 1 died which Jesus did not foresee before making unfulfilled promise/prophesy. and if he foresaw it, why promised something for 12 when you know they will be 11, or say it will be forever with them when you know they will all die or say you will come in their lifetime when you know the returning is not up to you?



@manmacho:

by manmacho: 8:05am
i think we should just close this thread, Sweetnecta as already crossed his mind, no arguement can help his case.

i wonder how you know the bold when you have at best entered 2 posts and your pretending scholars have refused to show me anything relevant to the topic? Has anyone told me how the holy spirit heard God and spoke to man? What he heard and what he said? Why would one God wait to hear from another before he speaks to his creatures? You have to think when you read the Bibles so that you can know if it is sensible, plausible or our of natural or even spiritual possibility. Miracles make sense though it is human possibility.

against obvious fact he continue to dissent.

what are the obvious fact[s]? Maybe i will read it below? so lets see. shall we?

the holy spirit can not be explained to you,

First fact, i am assuming? It is a strike against you and your blind faith. blindness does not help to see what can easily sighted.

is an experience you should have, He lives in us believer He will live in you if you accept Jesus christ.

so what has he correct you which should be the same correction on the disciples? How has he praised Jesus in your presence which should be the same way he did in the company of the disciples? How has he led you to all truth which would be the same way he led the disciples? What new thing has he taught you which should be what he taught the disciples? what did he remind you of Jesus which would the same reminding he did with the disciples? Remember that each of these is a thing above what Jesus did, left and taught. If you cant find anything on the pages of the Bibles or a book of the "another comforter", know that surely you do not have any holy spirit or you have abandoned the Book of the another comforter or somebody within Christianity is lying and has led all those christians who died astray and still leading the living christians astray.

your figth is within, i beleive you are trying hard to convince yourself that islam is right inspite of the glarring emptiness inside of you.

if what you are alleging is true, 9/11 would have helped me over the hump. its 11 years now and i am even a more determined muslim, today than before 9/11. let me let you in on a secret; i have a family in atlanta that is about to leave christianity. Allah will make their leaving a success, for them. and i have an opinion that the extended family in Nigeria will follow at some future time. Amin.

Accept christ today and join the league of Sons that are lead by the Spirit.

Jesus [as], a muslim like me? He is my leader. If the spirit is leading you any, you would have answered the simple test of the emergency service posted as thread topic. You dont have any spirit that is from God. it is obvious.

"the Sweet holy Spirit, give me peace, and gives me a foretaste of what is to come, he helps my down, by him i speak in other tongues am a winner for life.

rubbish since you are not giving us examples of what Jesus said that the holy spirit as another comforter will do with the disciples. There is no way you are better than the disciples even to now say that the holy spirit has done the bold in addition on you. If you are, go demonstrate it in the cages of poisonous snakes or ferocious big cats at the nearest zoo to you. Big mouth, i shut down, quickly.

THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN SAVE YOU JUST EMBRACE CHRIST AND BE TRANFORMED

Transformer! more than meet the eyes. If the holy spirit was not present in the lives of the "12 disciples" because there is no record that it did. And no christian has been filled with the holy spirit and "sinless". why would i join such a crew, a crew that its faith is blind which is being demonstrated by ability to simply answer the questions of this thread.

look, this morning as i was making my prayers, my mind wondered to a question that atheist macdaddy01 posted about Islamic eternity of hell is long as the earth and heaven endure, if Allah Wills. to macdaddy01, in his atheist mind, that was not eternity. what i have this morning from my prayers for him are many to demonstrate that even as Allah Wills that eternity to just be as long as the earth and heaven endure, he will not be here to see the end of the endurance of earth and heaven. this is enough to qualify the eternity to be valid and true eternity.

But i have more to support the "eternity" as long as earth and heaven endure by The Will of Allah; we know the sun does not rise or set, scientifically. but know that when science advanced to that level, though what we see are sun rising in the morning and setting at about the beginning of night. You see that you can not deny the rising and setting of the sun because thats what your eyes see, and you acknowledge it as a reality.

But thats not all. the moon is born when it begins to appear to the earth in its rotation. is there a birth of any moon? of course there is only one moon and it does not die. But before the new moon the current moon will have to die in its circle, being hidden from the earth in its rotational path. in short the reality of eternity as long as the earth and heaven endure by the Will of God is simply similar God making you see sun rising an setting even though neither happens, but appearing so to you where you are. And the moon being born and dies even though the moon exists always, but appears to you based on its rotational path relative the sun.

Give me similar explanation how a must speak another comforter did not speak to the disciples who he will abide with for ever even though they are now all dead. Give me evidence of his speech, his correction, his leading to all truth, his teaching of new things, his glorification of Jesus, etc. I wanna read them first with the disciples. Then explain how it now extends to cover you, a group Jesus did not mentioned.

@Bella3:

by Bélla3(f): 11:43pm On Sep 11

Sweetnecta: @Bella3: John 14 verse 16.

You research it out. You will see "Another" comforter, advocate, helper, counselor.

GOOD.

so you finally see it and all you can say is good?

'And i will pray the father, and He shall give you ANOTHER comforter, that He shall abide with you FOREVER.
Is muhammed stil alive?
The comforter Jesus promised was one that will live forever. And you and i both agree that no human being can live forever. Only the power of God which is the Holy Spirit can live FOREVER.

let me be playful for a moment. Can you give me the name of the Holy spirit, if God is Yahweh/Jehovah and son of man is Jesus/Christ? I know you never thought about why the holy spirit is the one that has no name among the Gods of the Christians. And you will say Yahweh/Jehovah is a Spirit and Jesus/Christ is a solid body. Both have names, and the holy spirit who is clearly a spirit does not.

I will leave the above for something you will think about and an inspiration for you to enter Islam because the holy spirit is a creation of God and a servant of God. The holy spirit is an angel and his name is Angel Gabriel. See how consistent I am. Islam gave me the name and the nature and role of Holy Spirit.

It will be inconsistent for a prophet like Jesus to say to the disciples who are mortals like him [all humans in every respect and no proof that any is more than that]that they will get something that will remain with them forever. What will be the purpose of the holy spirit on them now they are all dead? Live forever, humans dont. Hence, it will be inconsistent to say something will remain with them forever; forever in the grave, maybe, but it is now useless for them to have the holy spirit still because they as dead people. You make a failed prophesy out of that. And you kill the idea that christians have about Jesus with your humans dont live forever, since you said Jesus died on a tree, hung. Jesus said he was a human by his "son of man", 'prophets do not have honor among his "their" people/hometown', and the disciples saying "Jesus a man approved by God", 'Jesus Your servant who You sent'.

@Bella3: John 14 verse 16.

You research it out. You will see "Another" comforter, advocate, helper, counselor.

this thread is a chance for me to jab, jab and jab Frosbel until the knock out punch is only a simple air blow from the mouth.

Glory to God.

@Frosbel and others: I pre-existed as a spiritual creature, a soul before I arrived in the womb.

so you guys never existed before you were in the womb?

@Frosbel:

by frosbel(m): 10:03pm

truthislight:

friend, am un able to understan what you are saying and unto.

Are you ensuring to be consistent with the scriptures?

You are relegating Jesus to being an imagination befor his coming to earth, why?


What was Jesus before he came to earth if not the very word of God or the wisdom of God.

But I shall research further, by no means have we concluded this matter.

Where we agree is that there is only one ALMIGHTY God and he is not Jesus. Jesus is like a God , the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, but most importantly the Son of Man and of God.

may Allah return you guidance away from the type of ignorance expressed in the bold. Wisdom of God, when Jesus is deficient of all wisdom, like any human prophet [as]? I will continue to pray for you. At least thats the least I can do as a member of the same group; children of Adam [as].