₦airaland Forum

Infinitisi:
Na wa. Banks are only custodians of your funds, they are not owners. Why should your bank or account officer constitute a stumbling block to whatever you want to use your funds for?

They will always do that but only to those they perceive not to really know what they want and how to go about it and also because they are extremely selfish just like those who intentionally import fake drugs into the country not minding the fact that people can be killed through such acts.

They are NEVER happy that you want to use your money for any other thing other than leaving it with them in the Savings or Fixed deposit so that they can give you a paltry sum as interest and use your money to get about 5 times the interest given to you.

But once they know that you can't be fooled, they give you so much respect and will never dare you again

Pharmtj:
go read from page 1

zinaunreal:
its money we talking about here bro. But as una dey talk say no fear. I no fear again

Gavrelino123:
ok,let me narrative it.....
See how i did mine.......i Went to a branch at Amadu Bello Way,Lagos by 9.30AM yesterday and requested for secondary Market,which the guy in charge told me they weren't authorized to suscribe for any customer @ the moment that i should check back......i reciprocated immediately by asking the Enquiry staff "Is it General or this Branch only" ....He replied by saying "sir i can't say more than this".......
I told him,well no problem,let me go and get full details from your head office about what you just told me....As i was about stepping out,he called me and said i should hold on...i saw the fear gripped on his face....he told me to write my instructions that whenever they are authorised that my TB will be treated, which i said no & wanted it done immediately......I told him clearly,I'm well enlightened about T.B Primary and Secondary Market,that he should stop wasting his time...that was how i was attended to...
The key is,don't approach them with a novice look,because they are well trained expert liars... don't write your instruction and leave it with them,make sure it's treated before leaving the Banks.....By the time they are familiar with you that you are well enlightened,,they won't play such pranks again even if you come another day.....!!!!

Bravo!!!
Very good.
You got it. That's the kind of language they understand. That's why I have always advised newbies to be patient enough to read posts on this thread from the beginning before jumping into the "Markets" so as to benefit immensely.

Once you know your onions and have the courage to display it before them, you are good to go and they will respect you a lot.

I wish you a very happy investment

Fritz007:
Greetings to all the chairmen and Oga(s) in the house I joined the Tbills train today, but had 550k and was debited 535082.19 and found my balance at 14714.50....am akind of confused about it please can someone help me calculate if it's the actual 10% they diducted. I was told it's for 99days.

From a rough calculation, yes it looks like about 10% or just a little less if one considers the little deductions for transaction charges

Gavrelino123:
Ok thanks.... Just got debited.....265 days @ 13.5%.....Gtbank.
Also,thanks "Engineer Tony" and other Professionals in the house for your candid advice...I would have been waiting for the next primary Auction..

Beautiful!!!.
Congratulations.

davodyguy:
Ground rent is ground rent and if you pay your land use charge annually, then your ground rent is covered. Have you ever been billed LUC and tenement rate on same property?

If you want to sell a property, the evidence of payment of LUC should be given to the new buyer, so he's charged arrears of ground rent during registration

Thanks for your explanation. I have just seen a newspaper publication supporting your post on it. See it below:

https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/www.vanguardngr.com/2017/03/lasg-directs-land-owners-shun-tenement-ground-rent-payment/amp/

davodyguy:
That's how it's supposed to be

Can you please furnish me with the relevant laws where it is expressly mentioned that Ground rents on C.of O should no longer be paid so that I can use it as my defence.
I really don't mind please if you will need some time to dig into this before you can give me a reply.
Thanks

davodyguy:
That's how it's supposed to be

.

davodyguy:
That's how it's supposed to be

Please don't be evasive.
Is it so?

davodyguy:
Sequel the the thread that made the front page last week, wherein I promised to create a topic to address the issue, I've decided to do so in series. On this thread, we would try to address critical issues regarding the LUC and how it affects you.

What is property tax? According to wiki: A property tax or millage rate[1] is an ad valorem tax on the value of a property, usually levied on real estate. The tax is levied by the governing authority of the jurisdiction in which the property is located

The above definition tells us that it a tax on real estate asset, let me say tangible assets, like your land and all improvements on that land.

What is Tenement rate in Nigeria, we came to know the property tax as tenement rate, which could mean the same thing. In other country, they call it property tax, but in Nigeria, it was known as tenement rate. The local government do collect it prior to 2001 in Lagos State, Hence its a local tax by the local administration on all properties at the province or local level to generate income for the government, in oder to provide infrastructures.

What is Land Use Charge? As posited above, we had the tenement rate and some other property based taxes that are to be paid by owners of land (not tenants). Bola Ahmed Tinubu became Governor of Lagos State in 1999 and realized the poor collection of the tenement rate and inability of the local government to point out strategic programs that the funds were channeled to. Remember, we were under the military rule until 1999, hence the corruption was so obvious.

BAT then created the LUC, which unified the entire taxes to be paid on land as the Land Use Charge. The land Use charge is the combination of tenement rate, Neighborhood charge and Ground rent. Let me explain what Neighborhood charge and Ground rent means

Tenement rate: Tax payable annually on your landed property in the area it is located, to local government
Neighborhood Charge: Payment of tax for the uplift of the neighborhood where your property is located
Ground Rent: Remember the land use Act of 1978 vested the ownership of all Land to the State government, hence everyone is a tenant with the government for 99 years. Remember also that your C of O is only for 99 years max, hence the rent you pay Government annually is called Ground rent. Payable to the state government

The above 3 distinct taxes were harmonize by BAT as one and the responsibility of collection was placed in the hands of the state government, who will then spend the money on the entire state for the benefits of all. For instance, Instead of the local government chairman to collect tenement rate on a property worth N5 billion naira in Ikoyi and spend the money on frivolous things like boreholes etc the state government will collect and spend on meaningful projects spread across the 20LGAs and 37 LCDAs

In 2001, BAT came up with the Land Use Charge Law No. 11 of 2001 of Lagos State. The Land Use Charge Law which is applicable to all properties in Lagos State as a unified property charge, came into operation on the June 22, 2001 (“LUCL”).

The LUC has been there since 2001 and all forms of tenement rate was no longer collected after the unification. But many Nigerians do not know. Nigerians, I mean all of us, cos Igbo's, Yoruba's, Hausa, TIV, American, British, Lebanese, Indian, Ghanians etc own properties in Lagos. Many ous do not pay taxes at all on anything. This is the truth.Up till today March 3rd, many of us don't even Pay at all, but we love to criticize the government.

Remember, Tax is a civic responsibility. Go to UK, ask all the players in the EPL how much they pay as taxes. It's up to 30% of what they earn weekly, hence the UK is progressing cos of successful tax administration.

Conclusion, LUC had been with us since 2001, but since we don't pay, we have no idea that it exist. The Government of BAT and Fashola didn't do much to enforce payment and since 2001 to amendment or increment and less than 300,000 properties pay LUC in Lagos State out of over 2,000,000 houses that we have in the Lagos State.

LUC should not be confused as income tax, VAT, Capital gains Tax, Capital Transfer Tax, consumption tax etc.
LUC is tax payable by a Landlord. The person who has money and decided to buy property with his money. The government will tax you and use the money to provide houses for others. Houses are not only for the rich. The poor too deserves to own properties.

I am privileged to have traveled to some countries and did enquire how they do it.

In South Africa, UAE, England, USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, Ethiopia, Ghana etc all these are applicable.

If you don't own a property, you're not to pay Land Use Charge. It is an ownership tax.

Tell your landlord I said so and it is backed by Law.

All tenants should relax, as this is not for you.

As a private citizen of Nigeria, residing in Lagos, I pay the following

1. Income tax monthly to State government
2. VAT to Federal Government
3. Consumption tax to state
4. LUC to state government cos I own properties

These are applicable in most countries that I've visited.

There are other taxes that has nothing to do with real Estate eg
Consumption tax
VAT
Income tax
Stamp duty
Capital transfer tax etc

I created this thread to educate us on the history of LUC, in order to educate people and would be creating other parts later this month to address

1. The 2018 LUC law
2. Collection
3. Proposed Valuation
4.reliefs provided
5. How the money would be spent.

Feel free to share, just acknowledge the source and not plagiarize.

I am opened to answering any Question at all, pertaining to the LUC. The various LASG officials are interested in how Lagosians feels about this subject, hence they paybvery serious attention to Nairaland, based on my discourse with them yesterday

The moderators (Seun Mynd44) should do the needful by posting this important thread for all to see.

Itesiwaju Eko ati Nigeria, lo je wa logun.

God bless you all

Are you saying that Lagos State Government no longer collect Annual Ground rent in respect of the C.of O issued on lands on Lagos again?

stanleyuzoh022:
Good Afternoon

(2) is there an advantage if i know someone in CBN? For instance, can one get a higher interest rate?

Nigerians are very funny-always looking for ways round everything to have undue advantage over others.
Na wa o.

Meet the CBN governor and you will get 30%

Gavrelino123:
Thanks Prof......My Account with first Bank is a Salary account opened for me by KPMG (Current Account)......I don't want them to know about my financial status...
That's why I'm just managing GTBANK.....STANBIC IBTC is a Silent Money Deposit Bank with few branches,i don't know if their liquidity strength ratio is of standard accord..
My Accounting officer said that i should come this coming week for secondary Market..!!
Or do you suggest i suscribe for 182 days.?

Your best bet is to open a savings account with First or Stambic bank or both.

Then you can invest through either of them or both for your secondary and even Primary Market investments because those are the two banks that are best in guessing close to the stop rates and consequently gets their bids through most times than other banks.

It appears that you are not aware that the liquidity strength of Stambic is about the biggest or 2nd to GTB in the country and currently trades very close to N50 per share with GTB on the stock market far ahead of First bank which just recently crossed the N10 per share line.

Stambic Bank is one of the very few banks in Nigeria that may be allowed to pay dividends to their customers by the new rules now.

I will advice you to go for secondary market of between 250 & 350days of not less than 13.5% and if you don't get by next bidding, go for 182 days that you're more likely to get at the Primary market.

My unsolicited advice is that you should try and stop the idea of involving your account officer in your Treasury Bills investments. For example, why should he be asking you to come for secondary market next week when you can get it everyday? As long as you know what you want and how to go about it, you can walk into any branch of your bank to ask for available secondary market and lock your money in immediately if the offer is good for you. The account officers are fond of deliberately delaying by tactics the movement of funds from their bank for Treasury Bills.

Also, don't ever discuss with your accounts officer or anyone in your bank why you want to move your money from your account to another bank cause they will always ask you-just tell them it's for a personal project or tell them something else but never tell them it's for TB.

Pharmtj:
i got credited the tbil I did 91 with FBN yesterday. I want to reinvest it in the second quarter of this year, will the rates be high then in secondary market for Q2?

Hmmmmmmm.
Only Baba God can tell.
It depends on a lot of factors many of which can't be foretold. But my feeling is that it's not looking likely to be high then ( just my own feeling please).

You may see my post on page 467 @8:25am on 06 Feb 2018 where I expressed my reasons for thinking so.

Gavrelino123:
She said 364 days din't go through.......I still can't verify her claims......was anyone successful in yesterday 364 days tenure..?

The lady who told you that your 364 days bid was unsuccessful MUST have told you nothing but the truth.

I am sure you're not alone in this because CBN offered to sell N51Billion worth of Treasury Bills while investors offered to buy N283Billion worth.

The auction was therefore about 455% over subscribed. So only banks that bided low were able to succeed and the stop rate for that tenor was more or less equal to same rate with 182day tenor.

Same is likely to happen next bidding and as I posted yesterday, I won't be surprised if the next stop rate for 182daya is higher than that of 364 days-can you imagine?

If you don't want to settle for a lower tenor next two weeks, then go for the longest tenor you can get at the secondary markets of either First Bank or Stambic that will not be less than 13.5% and it's mostly easier to get very early in the day especially on Mondays

ImperialCovfefe:
Here you go.

Hmmmmmm. The way this stop rates are going, I won't be surprised if the stop rate for 182days is higher than that of 364days next two weeks.
The demand for it is becoming astronomical compared with available offer. Even yesterday, they were more or less equally-very very infinitesimal 0.0001% difference.

lancee:
Any info / update. about today's T..bills
No deb alert yet

Hmmmmmm
If your bank is not First Bank or you have not been debited by your bank before the commencement of the bidding today, better don't expect any debit today until either tomorrow of next.

cybertek:
ok thanks

Yes. I have seen some of my previous posts where I subtly gave reasons why I prefer Treasury Bills to MMF. You can read them on the following pages if you need them:

Pages: 450@ 4:45pm on Jan 05 2018;
460@ 6:38pm on Jan 22 2018;
468@ 5:06am on Feb 08 2018;
470@ 1:06am on Feb 12 2018 &
480@ 7:36pm on Feb 26 2018.

cybertek:
I started frm page 1 and had to skip some pages. I asked cos i felt like u can advise on which to go for. Thanks

I think it's not right for me or anyone to advise you on which to go for because people who choose either of the two do so for different personal reasons. Just as I concluded in my last post "one man''s meat may be another man''s poison".

What you need to do is to compare and contrast the advantages and disadvantages of both and decide which one fits your need.

I have given my own reasons for preferring TB to MMF in my posts not too long ago and that does not really mean that TB is better than MMF, but it's simply my choice of the two that fits my needs as an investor.

I will try to look for the page I posted it and feed you back accordingly if you really want to know my personal reasons.

cybertek:
I am new to this and i decided to go for MMF, since i can monitor my earnings and i can add more money to it when i have.. pls what make TB better than MMF??

The reasons why I prefer TB to MMF has been overstated in my previous posts. I even explained some on this very page. I am suprised that you quoted my post to chukzyfcbb in your post, yet you could'nt see some of the reasons there. Na wa o. So please go back and read it.

Apart from my posts in this regard, many other people have explained on this thread why they PREFER NTB to MMF. Mind you, one man''s meat may be another man poison.
The choice is yours to make maybe after weighing the pros and cons since the money is also yours

chukzyfcbb:
No one , I have tasted FBN MMF for a year plus, and I hated the slow approach they gave me.
Getting the Investment started was very slow, liquidating the investment was also very slow.

I was always sending countless number of mails, while referencing my account manger who told me about it. I don't want to have that experience again!

I will manage the piss poor rate of Tbills like that

;

So you've been there before.
Then what we're you driving at when you wrote "and y'all saying it's better than MMF"? as if you've never been there.

Since you have tasted the two, kindly be truthful and let others know which of the two gives better returns on investment and rest of mind apart from the other experiences you have earlier stated above coupled with additional fact that TB is tax free and once you invest, you can go to sleep with both eyes closed as well as get your interest upfront to handle some sundry commitment's.

With your quoted post above, you have inadvertently told me if not others too that TB is better than MMF. So why the "hue and cry"

chukzyfcbb:
Rates should jump back to 17-18% abeg, chaii

And to think one of the Investment matured this February, there is no motivation to even renew the tenor, 13% lool that's pisspoor

This is very very poooooor by all investment standards. Its not keeping up with Inflation's rates and y'all are saying its better than MMF?

At 15% inflation rate. we are -2+% loss in Real time.

Not good, I will see what first bank can offer when I hit the banks this week. Atall atall na I'm bad pass

But is anyone stopping you from moving to MMF?
Don't let people dictate to you. Follow your mind especially when it tells you that MMF is now better than NTB. After all its your money and not anyone's

NL1960:
No be only you chop upfront interest o. Na the 18% upfront interest i take pay my pikin one year secondary school and boarding fees.

That's one of the Beauties of Treasury Bills!!!

NL1960:
18% TBs of last year never mature. Mine too at 18% never mature.

Oh yes o.
By the time they mature, we'll see what the prevailing rates will be. But I Don chop the upfront interest sinnnnnnce.

All the same even if I want to terminate it now, I will be selling at about 12.5% for the remaining 100 days left and losing just about N35,000 out of the N184,000 interest I got last year because TB rates has fallen.

That's the beauty of buying when it's very high and terminating when it's very low.

ositadima1:
Maybe, the people on the other MF thread certainly are not all silly or are they... ?

Sure they can't all be silly. I guess most of them know why they are there and I guess one of the reasons why they are there is because some of them prefer that their funds be pooled together with others to invest in multi money instruments instead of those of us who believe solely in Treasury Bills thereby taking the small risk that we oldies don't want to take

ositadima1:
12.5% ? So it's this bad, see as i dey wait for TBills to appreciate so I can do small, be like say mutual funds better pass at 16% .

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Guaranteed 16%?
Or just for today
Pls just let me know where 16% is guaranteed in writing and without a caveat for Mutual Trust.
The guy jumping for joy at 12.5% for 94-day tenor is not stupid o if you don't know

NL1960:
Chai, see as Engr Tony quick quick appear when i was already mobilizing to demand for an appeasement of the upfront interest on a 10m 364-day TB from you for abandoning us.

N10m?
Abeg o!!!
I dey very far from that o.
The day I reach that go be the day I go arrive for TB and maybe I will ask someone then to tell me how to get to where that Quilox is

I no abandon you people o.
Na dodge I dodge for cross fire on Quilox issues o.

awesomeJ:
Thanks Oga Freeman. The poster should also know that whereas T-bills are purchasable at any bank on any given day, he will likely need a brokerage account to do those bonds, and their subscriptions are often only open during the 2nd week of each month.

On behalf of myself, and everyone else who feels the need for an apology on some of the funny words with which you've been addressed here lately, I say WE'RE VERY SORRY SIR. Just overlook like the mature boss that you are. Your contributions here are invaluable.

@Engr Tony, Didn't you say you'd no longer take the week-long break? Where have you been sir?

Ah!!! That last two page's (477 &478) were too hot for me. So I simply hid myself somewhere just observing. You know, the youths completely took over activities and I am not qualified to attend the famous Quilox and the likes for the big boys

If I had showed up, it's possible that I could be caught in the cross fire. In short, it was a page meant for the "Big boys" as there was not really much discussion on Treasury Bills but on how and where to relax which I think is sometimes welcome to me. So those of us who were not able to contribute turned to observers.

I hope you are having a beautiful Sunday

classy90:
please guys, where else can one really invest asides treasury bills.........

Mutual Trust Fund.
They accept as low as N5,000

Partnerbiz:
Oga go to your bank and liquidate. Is TB transferrable that way?

I really wonder ooooooooooo

mamateniola1:
That's 45k for the 6month period?
@awesomeJ, Thnx. I am now thinking of splitting 1.2 into the 2banks so I can experience both. Loll

I hope it's a dream because the stop rate even for 364days last week was about 13.7% so I don't know where the lady who told you 15% for 6months got her information from. Even the secondary market didn't have that kind of rate last week and I doubt if any such "high" rate has happened this year for 180days at the secondary market.

naijaobi:
Even the woman from cbn said so from the video u last posted here. She said people with less than 50 million should probably invest in mutual funds etc etc.

Yes she said so because that is the rules as per direct transactions with the CBN. She never said banks should not pull funds together from those who do not have up to M50m and that's a kind of mutual fund if you don't know.

What Banks have been doing for those of us who don't have N50m to invest and dictate our preferred rates for Treasury Bills is a Mutual Fund. See the definition of "Mutual Fund" below please for your perusal:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/mutualfund.asp

In other words, what I am saying is that the CBN can NEVER dictate the minimum amount that individual banks can accept for investments in mutual funds BUT the banks on their own can. So if a bank says it's no longer going to accept less than N50m, it does not mean that others can't accept N100,000 as Stanbic and First Bank does.