₦airaland Forum

edisoncash:
Treasury bill minimum to start now is 50 millions
How will small scale investors start it now

Who say?
What's the source of your information?
CBN or a Particular Bank?

Individual banks can take that decision but it can't be binding on all.

Alikote:
Just x by 1.28 by 3 m u get it

You see, if you want to teach someone who doesn't know how to calculate either simple or compound interest or even mathematics generally, you teach starting with the basics.

You don't just bring in a formula that he doesn't know how you got or arrived at. If you do that, he will be confused and will be asking more questions. How do you expect him to know how or where you got 1.28 from? And even the answer you will get will NEVER give you the exact answer.

Now, this is the simple way I will teach @savewelllivewel how to calculate the compound interest on N3m at 13.5% for 2yrs and there's no way he won't understand it:

1.The interest for first yr is N3,000,000 × 13.5/100 = N405,000.
2.For the 2nd yr, the principal amount now becomes N3,000,000 + N405,000 (the interest accrued the previous yr) = N3,405,000 since it was not paid to the owner.
Therefore, interest for 2nd year is >> N3,405,000 × 13.5/100 = N459,675.

3.The compound interest for the two yrs = N405,000 (for 1st yr) + N459,675 (for 2nd yr)
= N864,675 (QED) .

With this simple, method, I have really come down to his level and that of many others on this thread who MAY not be good in Mathematics to be able to understand it

Alikote:
1.28 x3.5m equal to 4.5 m

Sorry sir o.
I don't understand how the compound interest on N3m at 13.5% for two yrs can amount to N4.5m o.

Something must be wrong somewhere with that calculation.

Sammybabelious:
Yes, it from secondary market.... (first Bank )
2...the tenor is 91 days
3...pls how can I get
4...please how can I get the soft copy online. Where I am is quiet far from where I did the transaction. (pls if possible, d mail or website)
5...when I went there, for the Tbills, I was told it was 11.5%, ....
Mathematicians,place what is it suppose to be my interest?..

If you had submitted your email address with the bank before for online banking, then the should have been sending you email alerts. If not, you can send mail to their customer care requesting for it or approach a Fisrt bank branch manager near you for assistance.

91day tenor on 91day at 11.5% on N1,100,000 gives N1,100,000 x 11.5/100 x 91/364 = N31,625 (excluding transaction charges) if you were to be paid up front.

If you reinvested your interest less charges of say N31,000, your new or 2nd interest will be N31,000 ×11.5/100 × 91/364 = N891.25 also excluding transaction charges.

Since this second interest is not up to N1000, it can't be further reinvested. So it will be paid into your account less transaction costs which I guess is the N857.46 interest that was eventually paid into your account on 15/02/2018.

Then at maturity (after 91days), you will receive N1,100,000 + about N31,000 = N1,131,000. But note that N857.46 has already been paid to you too making a total of N1,131,857.46.

freeman67:
With what I am seeing in your statement it's like you ticked the invest with principal/capital with interest option. Meaning your your upfront was reinvested with your capital. NTB is done in excess of N1000 so any amount that is not up to N1000 would not be invested that is why they dropped that N915 interest in your account if not you would not have seen any interest. For more understanding go and collect your certificate/proof of investment from your bank tomorrow. If you are not clear with it then we'll discuss further.
I hope this helps....

I align with your post. It appears his interest was reinvested and what was credited as NTB interest (N857.46 on 15/02/2018 & not N915 as you claimed) looks like the fraction of N1000 that couldn't be reinvested since it was not up to N1000. The N915 you saw on the statement of account is his monthly interest earned on the savings account while NTB interest was dropped on the 15th February 2018.

If you observe well, you will see from his account that it took them over a week to drop the interest instead of the normal 2 to 3days.

If he had given the tenor, one may have been able to do a rough calculation. All said and done, he needs to either go to the branch or get his soft copy of the certificate online to confirm but I am sure it was from the Secondary Market.

zamirikpo:
My alert done come ooh

Stanbic is the best for primary market jare.

Got 13.6% for 364dayz.

Before nko?

Gavrelino123:
Lol......you are just lucky.....i was quietly refreshing this thread....

I honestly would have barred myself for a week if the rates had gone up as promised because all the indices I saw were that it would drop but I think the banks rescued the situation by bidding higher and the over subscription that happened at the 1st auction appears to be fading away especially in the 91 & 182-day tenors while that of the 364days tenor is also fast reducing.

However, it's good for investors.

It's like having a "draw" except for the 91days tenor that depriciated below the 12% mark.

So there's no cause for me to be off the thread for a week as promised.

awesomeJ:
May just be higher sir. Yesterday's OMO were not bought at all, investors ditched one, and the other was under subscribed, and eventually unsold.

Stock market this morning is witnessed a huge growth in transaction volumes. So let's see what happens.

That's exactly what will bring the stop rates down.
We shall see the outcome on the next 1hr

https://www.businesspost.ng/2018/02/14/treasury-bills-rates-slightly-rise-15-44-absence-omo-sale/

Above has further strengthened my position

naijaobi:
Are you serious sir

Very serious.

Gavrelino123:
Thanks bro......it was really a tough one.....i had to move to another branch ...I met with the Branch manager in GTBANK festac and explained everything to him,he was kind-of shocked & requested to speak with my Accounting officer....My Account officer told him that her own portal isn't opening that she told me to drop my instructions down which i refused....
How can I drop my instructions with you when you have clearly told me that no auction will occur this week...?
I had to write the instruction in festac branch as against my branch.......The manager assured me that it will be treated...that they will scan it to her to treat it....
I'm still not happy about this and doubtful..... She lied that there was an auction last week......she used to treat my TB peacefully without any problem before...but why the change..?

With the white lie she told, it means she did it intentionally. You see, the problem is that she is probably under pressure to improve or shoot up her customers' deposit as they are always given monthly targets and she used that trick to delay your use of the money for about 2weeks because that money will leave your account to CBN as soon as your bid is successful. Had she been successful with her tricks, you wouldn't have been able to partake in the Primary market until 28th February which is end of the month

titiclassy:
There is for tomorrow. You can get your form filled at the bank today or early tomorrow. Stanbic and First bank dey.
Tomorrow is Likely to be higher than 13.6 (previous bid)

If it's higher, I will Barr myself from this thread for one week as punishment.

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Gavrelino123:
Good morning all,is there any auction of Treasury bills this week...?,because I'm currently in GTBANK and my Accounting officer said there is no treasury bill for this week that the portal is not opening......please what is your take on this.....I'm still at the bank...
@ feelamong
@ tony
@Emmanuel
and All
..........

If their portal doesn't open, that is not a confirmation that there won't be sale of Treasury Bills tomorrow.

A lot of bankers don't really know much about TB pls.
For the first Treasury Bill sales of this year, I got to Stanbic and told the 2nd lady in charge of TB there that she should give me a form to apply for the 1st TB of the year and she told me that there would be no TB then.

I opened eye for her because I was sure and insisted that it would take place and she had to ask her partner who told her that it would hold. If I had listened to her, I would have missed it and TB rates has been southwards since then.

Sometimes you may have to call their head office before you give up and sometimes they do so deliberately to prevent you from moving your funds from their bank to Federal Government

C505:
I admire your POV. It's actually personal and has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread.
I might have to figure it out in the end though.
Much appreciated Mr Tony and God bless

Thanks for your understanding.

C505:
Thanks you for the light. Actually I have a target to meet by Feb ending but as at the 10th of this month, my target was like 3\4 up so while I was holding up to meet the the last quarter, she advised me hence to invest the 3\4 in MM while waiting for the last 1/4 so that by month end, I'd have had a ROI for 2 weeks instead of dipping my hands into the cash and then I can move the whole sum plus ROI to TB.
Apparently with what you said, I'll have to move my funds to TB as soon as the last quarter takes the front row ignoring her "I'll monitor the rise and fall of TB for you to know when its appropriate to move your funds."
Thank you so much MR Tony and God bless your wisdom.
Please can you kindly mail me your number at chux505@yahoo.com? There's an issue I'll like to discuss with you in private if it's not going to be a problem to you.

No please.
I prefer that we discuss on this thread so that everyone can benefit and probably add their voices too. If its an issue that can't be discussed here, then l am sorry that I won't be part of it.

okochaik:
Finally I chop my first money from TB after a successful 182 days tenure I got alert from my bank that it will mature on the 15th. Thanks to everyone here that has been helping and the government for at least allowing this free money

My question is do I need to go to the bank for any documentation or relax while they pay the money?

When is the next TB?

BIG THANKS!!

Go to bank to do what?
You will simply get the alert unfailingly on that date.
The next aution should be on Wednesday 14th February which is Valentine's and Ash Wednesday day and it's the proceeds of the auction on that day that will be used to pay yours and others on Thursday 15th.

Congratulations!!!

Amypriti:
Mutual Funds

It's good IF and only IF the 18% is very clearly stated in writing and unambiguously without any caveat as I stated earlier. If not, it's a ploy to lure you into it. Pls don't ever accept any verbal offer.

Amypriti:
Morning
Please does anyone here invest in CORONATION MERCHANT bank. I heard they are offering 18%
Just need confirmation on this

18% for what?
Savings?
Fixed Deposits?
Treasury Bills?
Mutual Trust?

Whatever it is, is the 18% clearly stated unambiguously in their terms and no caveat is attached

GODAKPAN:
Am fine here, the site is in uyo
I did the drawings in lagos and its a practice the engrs at the office frown at. they prefer you domesticate everything with them. I waited for about 16 months. had a plan of building within 24 months, so when they wasted 16 months, they were taking too much. I have set my retirement so cant afford delays. on profitability: I started tbills when it was above 18%, I needed 50m to finish a 53 rooms self content, at max, I will be making a yearly return of 5.3m but if I invested the 50m in tbills at the 18%, I was looking at 9m without quarrel with site engr, uyo capital city authority, tenants and the property must be maintained while I don't need to maintain my tbills. even at 10% I will be making equivalent of the building rent. tbills also hides the source of your income, making you live a normal low life without criminal elements courting you. unfortunately nobody is willing to buy the properties at even their cost price.

Oh!!!. God bless you with your thoughts and thinking.
What I like most in your response is "TBills hides the source of your income, making you live a normal life without criminal elements courting you"

C505:
Hello Mr TONY56, you seem well acquainted with this governmental bonds. Wanted to know your stance in this.
I went to AXA MANSARD an affiliate of GTB to buy TB recently. After so much lecturing, the lady behind the desk advised me to opt for money market ATM instead of TB since MM has a higher rate. It was about 15.84% against TB at 13.72 both for a tenor of 364 days. Difference is MM has its profit rate calculated based on change everyday unlike TB if the rate is 13% and you buy today, that's the rate your interest will be calculated for the tenor.
Although I bought into the MM after she convinced me that she'll monitor the TB rates so that if it increases above the MM, I can move my funds to TB.

What most people appear not to understand is that Money Market is largely Treasury Bills and stock market driven because that's where Money Market Operators invest their funds largely.

Having said that, Treasury Bills bought at a particular rate does not change throughout the tenor but the rate of MM today can change any day as it fluctuates. So if you are told that MM rate today is 18%, the factors that shot it up today MAY bring it down drastically tomorrow.

Tell me, can those who bought MM last year July when TB was 18 5% get better returns than those of us who opted for NTB same time at maturity? The answer is No because NTB rates have been heading south wards since then and the slide is very likely to continue further. Similarly, those who bought NTB now at 13.5% MAY not get better returns at maturity than those who invest in MM now IF and only IF NTB rates and stock market continues to improve steadily.

In other words, MM though good, is like a gamble (though you are not likely to lose your capital) while NTB is not because as you're locking your money in, you know what you're going to end up with and you get your interest upfront which can equally be re-invested for better ROI (return on investment)

You see, it's a big credit to the lady in the bank who was able to convince you to go for MM because the bank stands to gain from it and bet you, the lady is not likely to ask you to opt out for NTB any day. All she will be telling you is "don't be in a haste, it's still going to out perform the NTB" even if it's obvious that you should move over. Also, remember that MM is not tax free and the bank too collects certain percentage as their part of their profit. Another minus for MM is that if your bank for any reason should go under, your funds could equally be affected but if it's NTB, your investments are safe because that investment is with the Federal government of Nigeria and not your bank.

The choice is however yours and all I have written is not an expert opinion but the way I see it and that's "MY STANCE" as requested by you.

megacontrol:
interesting that you would give up your real estate project for TBill. i still think the returns don't compare, all things being equal.

if you don't mind, i would like to discuss this your building approval experience with you a little. assuming it's in Lagos, which LGA did this happen? how long did it take before you gave up? how much extra were they demanding?
Also i may be interested in discussing your planned sale. we can take all these offline if you prefer.

The main question is: "are all things always equal"?
Real Estate business is a lot riskier than Treasury Bills which is 99.99 risk free

C4Ltd:
sorry but you mean "having said that" abi? just asking

Oh yes. Thanks for the correction. I will modify it accordingly.

Viqtour:
Hello MR TONY56
I did my first ntb at the beginning of the year for 91 days(FBN) with my personal savings and got interest paid upfront. However, my mum kinda keeps money with me and I'm looking at putting it in ntb but I don't know the procedure to withdraw at any stage in case of emergency.
NB it should be the primary market because I don't understand the secondary market rate. Thanks

The first thing you should do is not "to learn how to withdraw at any stage in case of emergency".

First of all, you should find out when your mum is likely to ask for the money and better still, let her know that you want to use the money to invest in TB.

Treasury Bills are risk free but you would be taking a risk of probably losing part of your investments if by the time you want to terminate it, a TB you bought at say 12% has moved northwards to say 18% and there's the likelihood that you would have spent the upfront interest you received.

Having said that, there's no big deal about termination of Treasury Bills. All you need do is get back to the Branch of the bank you did the investment and inform the TB officer of your intentions.
It's their duty to work out what they feel is the secondary market rate as at that time and you will be so advised. But if you want to dictate your rate of selling, your TB will be on offer till whenever you can get a buyer. The higher the rate above the prevailing Primary market rate, the better your chances of getting buyer or else, your TB will continue to be on offer while you are eager to sell.

TB termination is not something you get to the bank today and hope to get sold that day. It depends on when you get a buyer and at the end of the day, you will also be debited with some transaction charges that is not really big. But as information has reached us about UBN on this thread, if your investment was with them, apart from the transaction charges, you will also be debited by 25% of the upfront interest you received initially.

Note also that if for example you bought at 12% for 91days and you now need to sell at say 18%, after only 30days, you are selling at a loss of 6%, and your account will also be debited with the excess upfront interest you received for 91days instead of 30days i.e you will pay back 2/3 of the upfront interest you received.

So these are all you need to consider before locking in money that is not yours and money that you may need before maturiry of TB. Generally people are advised to use only money they are not likely to need before the tenor they have chosen to avoid embarrassment.

lancee:
Alikote/ Mr Tony etc , does that mean there is no T-bills next week ?
About to subscribe

That's the calendar for you

GODAKPAN:
Is it possible for tbills to end, meaning cbn stops issuing. I have a 15year plan and wouldn't like it truncated. I invest all my salary in tbills and want to do it for the next 14yrs and retire. Before now I was into real estate, don't want to regret stopping construction. Thanks

You are lucky that I don't have your full name and where you work.

You are inadvertently telling us that you are getting side kicks or have double loyalty to your employers.

I would have called in the EFCC

zamirikpo:
Biko when is the next auction date. Let me quickly tie down this 13.5% before I come and go and be hearing another thing.

Is it 13.5% you want to tie down or N13.5m?

Pharmtj:
take am easy na bro.. 8.5M nor be beans o..... lol

And so what?

Khutie:
•••Ain't offended.
Xo can yhu kindly refer me to the page yhu explained it.

Go to page 365 and watch the first video. Although I quarrelled with the way Mr Ugo explained the way Treasury Bills stop rates are arrived at and bids are alloted, he however explained the difference between the Primary market and the Secondary market well.

For better understanding of the operations of Treasury Bods in a video presentation, I posted the second video sponsored by the CBN and anchored by a lady.

But generally, as advised about few posts before this today, you should endeavour to go through the previous post's from page 0. That was what I did and I honestly had no cause to ask a single question before I started investing less than two years ago


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw2VVuKdTY8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2vAnm6sEWM

zinaunreal:
so because you want to invest 8.5m you no wan go queue up read from the beginning. Corruption lingers even online.