₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
Take me through your thought process

...ah ! You'd have more joy with plankton . Indiscriminately firing neurons aplenty.


TV

tctrills:
The foster care system is not perfect, the adoption system is not perfect, even growing up with your biological parents is never perfect but to think that killing the child is the solution, how does that make sense?

One weeps. For the utter depravity and casual way it is spelt out. I am never really shocked, but my gosh !


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DeepSight:
Will you shattap and kneel down at once? How dare you speak to a gentle, kind, gracious, humble, polite and unobtrusive personage such as myself in such a manner.

...because, and to be honest, behind the bogus scholarly facade you like to present, you are a bit of a tit really. Just saying. I can't shake the feeling you are either never married or divorced .


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DeepSight:
Lazy, simplistic, daft and most unscholarly.

Oga, your pathologies are writ clear. On full view here. Inter-alia, faux outrage over differences. Petulant tantrums when you don't get your way. Wishing death or non-existence on strangers due to mere political disagreement. And your self-regard is off the charts .

Heaven-high hyperbolic statements of disbelief. Poly-monikering and a obsessive insistence on being right - always having to have the last word. You fawn like a political hack and at once hate like a paid propagandist.

Speak true, do you have healthy happy relationships outside of here? Those who report to you or rely on your benevolence must walk around on eggshells.

Please, anything we can do to help?


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NerdCat:
Have you clocked yet, by the way, that the assertion "your understanding is too finite to indict God" renders it equally too finite to recognise, trust, or worship Him? That blade, my friend, is double-edged - thoroughly and symmetrically so.

I disagree. Evidence for a creator abounds. My faith is historically attested too. Evidenced.

NerdCat:
Nobody claimed mercy was God's sole attribute. My dissatisfaction has hardly anything to do with the subject. The problem here is the logical structure of omnipotence colliding with observable reality, which no inventory of additional divine attributes actually resolves. Holiness doesn't explain tumours in children. Justice, interestingly, makes the problem worse, because justice applied to a child who has committed nothing arguably demands intervention. As for my righteousness being irrelevant - that's correct, and also entirely beside the point. My argument stands or falls on its own merits, independent of my moral CV. Attacking my standing rather than my logic is the oldest deflection in the catalogue.

Again, you rightly limit your observations to "observable reality". That was my point - not an attack on your morality, but your ability to take into account, or even all the relevant dynamic.

All of God's attributes work in tandem. Actions by other players in the cosmos earthly and heavenly have consequences. Faith assures me that God has this all worked out. Whilst there may be pain and suffering now, redemption will come to all those who put their faith in Him.

NerdCat:
The same thing that makes you able to measure proportionality when you declare the plan ultimately just and good: basic moral reasoning applied to observable evidence. You can't simultaneously claim proportionality is assessable when it favours your theology and completely inaccessible when it inconveniently doesn't.

Your take is temporal. A surgeon rips open a mans chest to perform open heart surgery. Tat is harm, damage, but the end thereof is healing. One who was limited view of only the ripping may come to a different conclusion.

NerdCat:
If all suffering is preventable under omnipotence, the moral responsibility calculus becomes total, not partial, so congratulations on that own goal. The fact that I keep bringing up brain tumours in children is me giving you a concrete, causally clean case. I focus there precisely because it resists your "human actions" deflection most ruthlessly. Scope it however broadly you like, the problem scales with you.

Just filling out your postulation. Resorting to an emotional use-case is not required. If you declare omnipotence is responsible for and to alleviate pain, harm and suffering, surely it must be the totality of it?

The parent who abandons their offspring and leads to lots f hurt and poorer outcomes. The one who leaves a supposedly committed realationship causing heartbreak. Random muggings, assaults, terror attacks, wars, along with a host of other things all cause pain, harm or suffering. Why not charge omnipotence with them as well?


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LordReed:
Nope but they would be responsible if they didn't do what is in their power to do. You lot claim your god is all powerful, yet he does nothing to prevent any of the suffering we see.

People come up with changes that advance humanity and they are responsible if others decide to use them in harmful or destructive way?

Yes my God is all powerful, knows all things and is everywhere present. Why should He do anything to prevent suffering to those who refuse to acknowledge Him, wilfully disobey His commands, nor seek or serve Him. Your demand is that He do good as you see it and on your terms .

Wait.


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DeepSight:
Here again you fail to understand that just as wealth is inherited, poverty is inherited and for that reason alone it will take generations to even things out after centuries of unspeakable discrimination, economic marginalization of the worst kind and all. So its not a simple question of saying "what rights are they denied today?" That is terribly simplistic and even you should know better than that.

What wealth did Japanese Americans inherit? Or the Irish or Italian. The Nigerian or the Ghanaian nko?

Stay in school - to degree level if possible. Get gainfully employed. Get married, and be sure to do so before you have children. Simples. If relatively poor, there are all kinds of assistance, grants, awards and scholarships. Myriad programmes and DEI initiatives. It's actaually harder not to have a modicum of success. But love of grift and a propensity to lawlessness no go gree you !


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DeepSight:
Look at you. In Nigeria alone the mistake of 1914 is still haunting us big time. Na lie?

In your own words, please explain how - briefly please. Ta!


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DeepSight:
TV01, I was going to respond to your last post but it has disappeared. I see you were banned eh? There you go. So who is the trash talker now? I saw all the vulgar stuff you wrote there.

TV is never vulgar . I suspect you have mod permissions and employ them to hide posts you find hurty !

DeepSight:
Two basic things - If indeed you accept that multiple factors are responsible for the situation with black families, why do you zero in on welfare for them as the cause / central theme? And why would you - and anyone - swat aside the obvious economic deprivation inherited from centuries of discrimination, segregation, prejudice and economic marginalization?

Not all black issues stem from the "centuries of discrimination, segregation, prejudice and economic marginalization". Further, using that as a fig leaf to hide behind and a cosh to ward off scrutiny harms black families. As do other social pathologies, especially amongst FBAs. For many black and non-FBA blacks, this whole discrimination\raycist bag is typically a grifters charter.

DeepSight:
I really think some of you need a proper course on this matter. Because its as though you have no clue whatsoever what went down. In your minds, black Americans are simply genetically lazy ne'er do wells.

Nope, I don;t need a course in languishing in victimhood, growing an insufferable entitlement or refusing to take charge and map my own destiny with everything I have - stand or fail. People are short, broke, disabled, crippled, blind, barren, orphans, living in war-torn countries and challenged in all manner of ways. What is it?

Every group or community of people have at some point in history suffered setbacks, marginalisation or wide-scale trauma. Making those experiences your habitation will only have a compounding effect.

Similar to individual relationships. Have a bad one? Ok, pick yourself up, dust yourself down and get on with life. If you choose to become a misandrist or misogynist and spend all your time wailing about how wicked the opposite sex are, that's your baggage. At some point, no one will care, and no one will want to hear it. Free will bro .


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raumdeuter:
Is rape even a crime in the ME when a woman raped is mandated to marry the rapist or the punishment is to bring the rapist sister to be raped back in return while the judges watch and applaud

...or if she can't find 4 male witnesses to her violation, she is in turn accused of adultery and likely stoned to death. People who argue for the cultural and scoietal superiority of the ME over the West and actually move there are as rare as unicorns .


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THEDEEPSIGHT:
I should not waste my time. You could not possibly ever grasp the impact of long lasting discrimination on black people and its correlation to the bold. You probably think black families tended to be like that because they are simply inferior and animalistic.

I keep telling you there is science to these things.
But you prefer the provincial ignorance you are acquainted with.

Lagos lout with your potty mouth. Did you get banned . It's not your potty mouth that irritates the most, it's your bone-headedness .

Even during the slave era in the US, black people managed to maintain a sembelence of pair-bonding. Post slavery, the rates were pretty much level with other communities.

Once the US govt started to hand out free cash with prompts which incentivised single-motherhood, things took a turn for the worse. Not everything is directly related to historical discrimination. Although I do understand how believing so gives a near fail-safe position and strips away the need for any form of critical thinking .


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DeepSight:
Picking on one thing the way you guys do to denigrate blacks is just shameful. Its like saying whites are useless since most serial killers are white.

The breakdown of the family affected the whole of the black community and impeded its advance. Serial killers do not have the same broad-based impact on the white community.

Obviously not one of the urbane, educated leftists you were describing . Is there no end to your headache-inducing babble ?


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bemeruca:
You said crap about all white people, we point out that some fought and died to free black people from slavery.

You call house House N, make statements like white people or W Supreme won't love you etc.

You hate white people. That's confirmed

He also hates black people who don't join his hate parade for WP and Juice. Freely and gleefully throwing around slurs such as HN and cooon or variations thereof.

A really hateful person.

tctrills:
Lol
The leftist in you is coming out. Always ready to assassinat everyone you don't agree with. You see superior argument and all you wish is that the opposition never existed. Coward.

Oh yes, and this too. A spewer of tropes and canned ideology. Wrapped up in tantrums dressed as faux outrage .



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DeepSight:
I need to show you proof that the improvement of the lot of a subjugated people IS A GRADUAL PROCESS that takes time, and even generations when they have been subjugated for centuries?

Useless.

Yes please. Examples. Instances from all those scientific studies you spend your time reading !
Perhaps you could deploy the same methodology in your, not gradually, but rapidly spiralling nation.


TV

DeepSight:
Because of your defense of Tommy Robinson, perhaps?

People accused TR of being racist - I asked for evidence. Detail of broad based harm, or intended harm to black or ethnic minorities in the UK, via his actions individually or as part of an organisation. Non was forthcoming.

DeepSight:
I have never been racist or said anything racist.

You quite clearly despise white people and you are one of this boards foremost haters of "Juice". Repeating AS tropes even after being repeatedly corrected.

But, I don's suppose the Juice care about the opinion of someone scraping out a living in a backwater no one takes seriously. Kinda like me .


TV

DeepSight:
The improvement of the lot of a people is obviously a gradual process which takes generations - especially when that set of people have been subject to centuries of deprivation and subjugaton!

This is not rocket science!

Is your statement science in any sense?
Please detail or point to instances which can be used to confirm this position.

bemeruca:
But if your argument is that nobody can compare Black outcomes across time without being racist, then you are just avoiding the question.

Abi?


TV

Why was I called out here?
I don't, as a rule discuss people or personalities. Only principles, policies and practice.

And, coming from you, accusations of racism are quite rich don't you think?.


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DeepSight:
I was watching a Youtube show on Charlie Kirk / Erika Kirk. Came across some of his utterances again.

I had to sit back and wonder, befuddled, how people argue that this man was not racist.

His words - verbatim -

KIRK – “When blacks in America did not have the same rights they have today, they were less murderous, there were less break-ins – why is that?”

QUESTIONER – “Are you trying to say that blacks thrive under subjugation?”

KIRK - “No, I am not, I am asking you the question, the data shows they were actually better in the 1940s. It was bad, it was evil, but what happened, something changed.”


How do the likes of raumdeuter, bemeruca, tctrills, TV01, basilico and company wish to spin this.

cc: Ishilove (I copy you because you once claimed to me he was not racist I believe), Ijebos, cococandy

PS: This specific exchange took place during a live event at Utah Valley University (UVU) in Orem, Utah, on September 10, 2025, just before he was shot.

DeepSight:
What then about the several other verses I cited which explicitly made it clear that there was nothing like free will in the destiny of man.

Secondly a perfect creation cannot fail.

Why are you being disingenuous? Admit you misread and\or misapplied the verses from Romans. I maintain, you are hellbent on insisting on your reading of the biblical text to justify the hatred you have for Christianity. Your free choice.


TV

NerdCat:
Whatever we call the attribute in question, an omnipotent being who observes preventable child suffering and observes it anyway still has an explanation problem.

I said previously, perhaps consider your own finiteness and limited understanding. Maybe revisit your own contextualising mercy as an attribute of God.

Is mercy God's sole or primary attribute? What of Holiness, Justice and other attributes. Your wanting an explanation and your dissatisfaction with what you can fathom about how God dispenses mercy does not make you righteous, just or merciful. Nor does it legitimise how you choose to understand it and demand that God apply it.

NerdCat:
What kind of restoration plan requires centuries of children dying as operational overhead? Also, announcing consequences in advance doesn't absolve the designer who made the consequences disproportionately heritable by innocents.

As above, what makes you think you are able to perfectly take the measure of what is proportionate or not?

NerdCat:
Don't go rolling off the cliff now. Let's take it from the top once again - I charged an omnipotent deity who permits preventable suffering with moral responsibility, which is categorically not the same as blaming God for every scraped knee. Piggybacking on that, death as a natural biological phenomenon is a separate conversation entirely from a child's brain tumour.

In light of omnipotence, all suffering is preventable. Could God not have excluded death from His creation? Is death not, suffering, harm or pain? Why focus on an emotive user case. Why do you limit your demand to "suffering children"?


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DeepSight:
What it shows is that you can imagine and plan all you want, but the only thing that happens at the end of the day in any instance is what the Lord wills. This absolves man of any guilt. It is completely in tandem with the Islamic view that all that happens is the will of God.

Happy for you to continue to be incorrigible. The bold sums up your error. Yes, Gods will always prevails, but that is primarily at a macro-level.

God's unfolding plan and purpose cannot be thwarted by anyone or anything - that does not stop them trying. The fact that Gods will always prevails, does not mean that individual cannot act out the free choice expression of their own wills.

Peter decried and tried to stop the Lord going to the cross. Can't happen. Didn't stop Peter from trying. Individual day-to-day choices, decisions and actions remain within individual purview. Where you forced to become a lawyer Was it God that made the Nigerian authorities open fire on SARS protesters?

DeepSight:
Explain away these verses -

Ephesians 1:11: "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will."

​Isaiah 46:10: "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'"


Your scripture says so, not me.

And there are instances of it - for example, where he instigated David to conduct a census and then killed 70, 000 Israelites for the conduct of the census. How absurd is that?


Then it must be presumed that what happened (the fall of man) was designed by the designer - God.

Nothing needs "explaining away".
What happened - the fall of man - known to the omniscient God and factored into His plan. And the price for all mankind was paid in full, by God. It's certainly a legit question to ask why that way? I don't know, there are various attempts to figure it out, but scripture is not explicit.

The scripture does say this though
1 Corinthians 1 - 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the [h]disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Your - freewill - choice.


TV

^{...ah! comparing the Everlasting God to mohammeds alter-ego. Low blow bro'}

DeepSight:
This is just lazy. Anyway fine by me cos I know it's impossible to answer those verses. They are too explicit. They say that man can do nothing but for God who directs what he does. In fact, they take away any culpability from man.

You are blinded by your own insistence on projecting your desired reading and reject unconsidered any other. I can't help that.

​Proverbs 19:21: "Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails."

Pray tell, how does a man who does not have free will plan anything? If Israel and Iran go to war, whatever their plans, what will happen will fit God's unfolding purpose - IFF it touches on it.

I choose to eat healthily - am I predestined not to eat junk food. Are thieves predestined to steal? So yu rclaim is that God predestines people to sin, then punishes them for it?

DeepSight:
A perfect creator cannot make an imperfect creation. That's illogical.

Only God is perfect. Making man, even in God's image, does not make man God The creation was perfectly fit for purpose at the point of creation.


TV

DeepSight:
What then about the several other verses I cited which explicitly made it clear that there was nothing like free will in the destiny of man.

In your eyes, predestination is there, and you will refuse any other explanation. Why sould I even bother? If you claim all 250m odd Nigerians are as pure as the driven snow and I find one, just one, who isn't, job done. The other 249,999,999 do not matter

DeepSight:
Secondly a perfect creation cannot fail.

Only the Creator is perfect.


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DeepSight:
How did you falsify the verses. I set out about eight verses. You simply put the Romans one in bold, said nothing about it and ignored the rest.

Please read my response again. I added v28 (in bold) to be read in conjunction with the verses you posted (29-30), to show your cropping of the scriptures was misleading. Your hatred is blinding you . "Those who love God". Love can never be anything other than by freewill. God knows all, including those who will requite His offer of love and then predestines them.
https://www.nairaland.com/8659388/old-age-god/2#139238791

DeepSight:
Is this the intellectual rigor you have been claiming for yourself. Disappointing.

You are not even properly reading or comprehending responses. You do actually sound like one who is just regurgitating - i.e. lacking freewill .

DeepSight:
As to your claim. Do I understand you to be summarizing Christianity by saying that God created a flawed mankind and then decided to save that mankind from his error by becoming a man then killing himself to appease himself over his flawed creation? Is that it?

No, mankind was created perfectly for their purpose. Mankind chose to ski off-piste with devastating consequences.


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DeepSight:
Not according to your scripture.
BTW, can you clue me in on this wonderful ability to blatantly ignore verses in a document I swear by? Such a skill should come in handy.

I didn't feel the need , or have the time to debunk your position on predestination\freewill. I falsified your reading of Romans 8:28-29 to show your error.

I have provided a short précis on how to approach Christianity, but you insist on your own distorted reading. Love demands freewill. Which is why God in love went ahead with His plan to create man (the apex of His creation). Knowing at once that man would get it wrong, God also made a way to restore all things through the giving of Himself, when He could have just chosen to start over. The only choice now is ours. Choose wisely sir.


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NerdCat:
So mercy means nothing, explains nothing, and guarantees nothing - correct?

Perhaps your insistence of what mercy means, explains and guarantees is what requires re-visiting?

NerdCat:
Note that inherited corruption still requires an architect who designed the inheritance mechanism, approved the terms, and chose not to revise them.

And who clearly stated what the consequences for mis-use would be. And who has an unfolding plan to restore all things to plan.

NerdCat:
l'll oblige your deflection for now. In my worldview, suffering is bad because conscious beings experience it as bad, report it as bad, are affected by it and are subsequently destroyed by it - which is rather the point of the word "suffering." I quantify it the way any non-lobotomised observer does: by its effects on actual persons.

So if there is any pain, harm or suffering by conscious beings, God is at fault? So death itself falls into that category. Are you charging that to God as well?


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DeepSight:
How so. Whatever I am is a consequence of the work of the creator.

...and your own free-will choices and actions .


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DeepSight:
Does watching the many extreme infirmities, indignities and vulnerabilities of old age not take away in many cases the joy of living a long and ripe life and lead many to question the mercies and intentions of our creator?

Probably to some degree, so what? It's all explained.

Mostly here

MaxInDHouse:
Old age wasn't part of God's purpose for us {Job 33:25} it came along with sin {Romans 3:23} so long or short life means nothing to the true God {Genesis 5:23-24} because this is not what real life means to Him! 1Timothy 6:19
What God promised His worshipers is everlasting life! Psalms 37:29; John 3:16

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DeepSight:
Nothing can justify the sadistic barbarity and immorality of the book of Job. It is a book that reveals the stark cold immorality and dark evil of the pagan mountain deity of the Jews.

Oga, it's not God that needs justification, it's you!


TV