₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
You said yes but named no verse. Your own pastes show wars called by the Prophet pbuh (Q9:38), fought under rulers (Abu Dawud 2527), and led by appointed commanders (Muslim 19:4294). Which of them says an ordinary individual may start one on his own initiative? Evidence that a war occurred is not evidence that any individual may start one. Killing is forbidden by default (Q6:151 & 17:33), so the exception requires clear proof. Silence is not a licence.

Sahih Al Bukhari 2785
Narrated Abu Huraira - A man came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed."

At-Tawbah 9:111
Allah has indeed purchased from the believers their lives and wealth in exchange for Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah and kill or are killed.

As we can see, Jihad is also ranked first in many instances.And, is in fact a contractual stipulation\agreement within ee.slam.

honesttalk21:
If private violence proves your case and state violence also proves it, what could ever count against it? And if the outcomes are the same, why fault Buhari for not using the state route?

My case is that no such distinctions exist. Individual, mob, militia or state - all join, all acceptable in ee.slam. Please show one verse where the ee.slam.ic texts instruct individual moose.slims to not act unilaterally.

Indeed, in many lone wolf incidents, all the perpetrator does is claim allegiance (after the fact. So even if you insist on the requirement for a state imprimatur, it does nothing meaningful to prevent lone-wolf incidents.

honesttalk21:
His statement condemned the mob and the killing and demanded an impartial probe. It says "as alleged." Where does it declare her guilty? The line on respect for the Prophet pbuh can be criticised for tone, but tone is not a verse. Calling his conduct Sharia-compliant is your inference, not proof. Which verse told the prosecutor to stay away?

The president spoke of "self-help" - for who? The mob were not under threat or attack. There was no proof, evidence or investigation. No trial or verdict. So what exactly was there to determine that what the mob did ensured the right outcome, just in the wrong way? Which is exactly what his statement implied. Underscored by the fact that he went on to talk about the reverence moose.slims have for their prophet. So what?

He did not speak of justice for the family, as he clearly believed justice had been done. Nor did he call for the perpetrators to be brought to book. It was a huge wink to the mob-mentality of the religions requirements.

honesttalk21:
"Convert or die" and "convert, pay jizya or fight" are different claims. Jizya was a legal status for certain non-Muslim subjects under Muslim rule, and it can be criticised on its own terms. Which of the two are you actually describing?

Yes na, slave was also a "legal status". Does codifying discrimination and hatred serve to sanctify it?

honesttalk21:
Qurayza is a traditional account of a siege and a judgment by an arbiter the Banu Qurayza themselves accepted. It rests primarily on Ibn Ishaq. Even if accepted in full, it is a ruler's judgment after a military engagement, not a private act. Deuteronomy 20 prescribes similar treatment of certain cities. For claims about concubines and the killing of old women, name the specific report and its chain of transmission. Deuteronomy 21 also has rules for captive women. Is the criticism reserved for one book only?

Running to, or making erroneous comparisons with OT text does not exculpate or justify the workings of moose.slims based on the prescriptions of the ee.slam.ic texts.

honesttalk21:
Christians no longer applying the old law is a claim about Christian practice. It does not answer whether the text itself is violent, nor why occasion is a legitimate reading for one scripture and evasion for the other. An eternal text containing an occasion-bound ruling is ordinary tafsir. And "superseded" did not stop Christians leaning on the old law for war. Puritan settlers cast the Pequot as Canaanites in 1637, and in 1994 Paul Hill, a former minister, shot an abortion doctor and his escort in Florida and called it biblical. In 2011 Anders Breivik, a self-described conservative Christian hostile to Islam, killed 77 people in Norway. Do such men tell you what the Bible licenses? Then why do jihadists tell you what the Qur'an licenses? You cannot answer one way for the Bible and the other for the Qur'an.

Christianity s not based on the OT, which you must know. And, Christianity soes not preach violence against enemies. State or otherwise.

honesttalk21:
So where is the verse, the authentic hadith, and the recognised juristic principle that authorises an ordinary Muslim to initiate an attack on his own authority? Name them, or admit your evidence shows state warfare, not a private licence.

Effectively a needless distinction, although I understand it is one that jurists make (not without exception). My point is the needlessness of any such distinction, given the outworking, and the very real fact of lone wolf, mob and militia terror incidents.


TV

AntiChristian:
You just keep telling lies. There are many murderers who claimed Christianity just like Boko Haram but your prejudice won't let you use the same criteria you used for Boko Haram on them. When Christians show their murderous intent then they are either out of their mind or not following the Bible (new testament). Same way you just dissed the OT.

Let me make clear the difference.

1. There will be people who call themselves Christians who commit atrocities.
2. There may even be Christians who commit atrocities and point to the Bible for justification.
3. Christianity does not prescribe or justify violence by its adherents unless in cases of self-defence - and that is not obligatory.
4. One pillar of ee.slam, is the hatred of non-moose.slims who see non-moose.slims as inferior and akin to animals
5. Hence, ee.slam loves and prescribes oppression, violence and bloodshed against those it hates
6. A moose.slim who sheds blood is justified by his scriptures and emulates his founder. A Christian who does so, does not.
7. Despite the peace preached by the Prince of Peace, some who call themselves Christians do wrong.
8. Despite the wholesale killing prescribed by the ee.slam.ic text, some moose.slims are good

AntiChristian:
That marriage Jesus attended in Cana were they believers? Where did Jesus ever say Christians should not marry non-Christians before Paul came?

Yes they were believers. They would have been Jewish believers. There were no Christians whilst The Lord was alive - just followers or disciples.

AntiChristian:
How does these justify the killing perpetrated by Jesus and his father in the OT?

I tol' you chil' -divine judgement for ages of evil practices and wicked behaviour which they refused to repent of.

AntiChristian:
There is no religion called Christianity in the Bible. The name was created by unknown non-Christians after Jesus. Stop making it seem as if there was a Plan by Jesus to start Christianity. Jesus never started it.

Oga, please,
Acts 11:26 - And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch .

AntiChristian:
So why was Jesus unaliving Israelites who worshipped other gods in Deuteronomy 13 just like Boko Haram?

All actions were based on the covenantal stipulations which both parties had agreed to.

Who signed a contract with the ee.slam.ic god or the ee.slamic prophet agreeing that they would be happy to die if, "they did not worship the ee.slam.ic god or believe the ee.slam.ic prophet."


TV

AntiChristian:
You are right. Christians do that nowadays though they harbour evil thoughts about non-Christians as they must be converted as Paul said:

Fallacious and stated with evil intent. Christians do not harbour evil thoughts about Unbelievers. Only the hope that they may come to the Light of The Lord Jesus Chris who died for them also. Further, there really is no compulsion in Christianity - we evangelise, we proselytise. We do not forcefully convert, subject or slay. Neither do we curse unbeleivers like moose.slims do in their Friday prayers - especially the Jews.

The evil thoughts and intent are all ee'slams. They think murderously towards everyone who does not believe in god. Does not worship god, Does not worship their god, or does not worship their god they way they insist. Even other moose.slims. Hence why the 2 main sects of ee'slam, freely shed the blood of others.

No reading of the Biblical text will ever lead to warfare between Christians. Differences maybe, Schisms possibly. But not war or bloodshed. Any such conflict will always have an underlying non-sectarian reason

AntiChristian:
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership can righteousness have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?…2 Corinthians 6:14

That is an instruction for single Christian believers to not marry unbelievers. Or for Believers to not engage in ungodly conduct by the act of joining themselves to unbelievers to engage in sinful enterprise.[/quote]

AntiChristian:
And i remember Yahweh's law to unalive those who worship other gods especially from Deuteronomy 13. While i don't support violence of any kind against people of other beliefs, I wonder where you get the moral standing to accuse others of what your God did back then!

You MO is always the same - run to the OT .

1. The OT (history, poetry and prophecy aside) was the agreed covenant between God and the Israelites. Which both parties agreed to and signed. It was not binding on anyone else, except those that chose to live amongst the Israelites.
2. Gods judgement was pre-warned on the tribes of Canaan - they were punished for their evil and wickedness
3. No Christian is bound by, or follows the OT.

You always fall flat on your face in defence of the lie that is ee.slam. Pray, come to Christ and be set free. Leave the embarresment that is ee.slm.


TV

Rashduct4luv:
Unity is one of the greatest strengths of the Muslim Ummah. Islam calls believers to gather upon truth, righteousness, mercy, justice, and obedience to Allah and His Messenger ﷺ. However, unity in Islam is not unity at any price. Muslims are only commanded to unite upon what is good, righteous, and established from the Qur’an and authentic Sunnah, understood according to the way of the pious predecessors (Salaf): the Companions, their followers, and those who followed them upon excellence.

Unity is therefore not mere emotional togetherness, political alignment, or social convenience. It is a religious unity built upon truth, tawhid, sunnah, brotherhood, and obedience to Allah.

What Unity Means in Islam
Unity in Islam means:
*agreeing upon the foundations of faith,
*holding fast to the Qur’an and Sunnah,
*avoiding sectarianism and hatred,
*cooperating in righteousness and piety,
*showing mercy and justice to fellow Muslims,
*and preserving the brotherhood of the Ummah.

Allah says: “And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided.” — Surah Aal ‘Imran 3:103

He also says: “Indeed, this your religion is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me.” — Surah Al-Anbiya 21:92

And He says: “And do not be like those who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And for them is a great punishment.” — Surah Aal ‘Imran 3:105

These verses show that unity is tied to holding onto revelation, not personal opinion, tribalism, or factionalism.

We Unite Only Upon What Is Right
Muslims do not unite upon falsehood, innovation, or injustice. True unity is unity upon the truth brought by Allah and His Messenger ﷺ. The pious predecessors understood the religion as the Companions understood it, and this remains the safest and most correct path.

Allah says:
“And the first forerunners among the Muhajirun and the Ansar and those who followed them with excellence—Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him.” — Surah At-Tawbah 9:100

This verse makes clear that the path of the early Muslims is the model for the Ummah.

The Prophet ﷺ said: “Whoever among you lives after me will see much اختلاف (difference). So adhere to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly Guided Caliphs after me. Hold fast to it and cling to it with your molar teeth, and beware of newly invented matters.”
— Sunan Abi Dawud 4607; Jami‘ al-Tirmidhi 2676 (Authentic)

Meaning: When اختلاف arises, the solution is to cling firmly to the Sunnah and to the way of the Rightly Guided Caliphs.

The Importance of Unity in Islam
Unity is essential because it:

1. Strengthens the Ummah
A united community is able to worship Allah better, protect the weak, establish justice, and defend itself from harm.

2. Preserves Religion
Division weakens religious commitment and opens the door to misguidance, extremism, and innovation.

3. Reflects Brotherhood
Allah made believers brothers: “The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy.” — Surah Al-Hujurat 49:10

4. Brings Allah’s Mercy and Help
When Muslims unite upon truth, they are more deserving of Allah’s aid.

The Prophet ﷺ said: “The believer to another believer is like a building whose different parts strengthen each other.” — Sahih al-Bukhari 481; Sahih Muslim 2585

Causes of Disunity in Islam
Disunity does not come from the Qur’an or Sunnah. It comes from people turning away from revelation or giving preference to desires over guidance.

1. Ignorance of the Qur’an and Sunnah
When people lack sound knowledge, they fall into confusion, blind following, and sectarian rivalry.

2. Following Desires and Personal Opinion
A person may prefer ego, leadership, or ideology over the truth.

3. Sectarianism and Partisanship
When allegiance becomes based on group identity rather than truth, unity collapses.

4. Arrogance and Refusing to Accept Correction
Many disputes persist because people cannot admit error.

5. Innovation in Religion
Introducing into religion what Allah did not permit creates division and confusion.

The Prophet ﷺ warned: “Beware of newly invented matters, for every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is misguidance.” — Sunan Abi Dawud 4607; Jami‘ al-Tirmidhi 2676

6. Enmity, Hatred, and Backbiting
These destroy trust and fracture brotherhood.

Allah says: “And do not dispute and thus lose courage and your strength would depart.” — Surah Al-Anfal 8:46

Solutions to a United Muslim Brotherhood
If Muslims want to return to the unity of the Sahabah and the pious predecessors, they must return to the sources of unity.

1. Return to the Qur’an and Authentic Sunnah
This is the foundation of all unity.

“And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger.”— Surah An-Nisa 4:59

2. Understand the Religion as the Salaf Understood It
The Companions were the best generation, and their understanding is the most reliable path.

The Prophet ﷺ said: “The best of people are my generation, then those who come after them, then those who come after them.”
— Sahih al-Bukhari 2652; Sahih Muslim 2533

3. Avoid Fanaticism and Blind Partisanship
A Muslim must support truth even when it is against his group, tribe, or preference.

4. Promote Knowledge, Da‘wah, and Tolerance in Matters of Ijtihad
Muslims may differ in valid scholarly issues, but such differences should not become hatred.

5. Spread Salam, Mercy, and Brotherhood
The Prophet ﷺ said: “Do not envy one another, do not hate one another, do not turn away from one another, and be servants of Allah as brothers.” — Sahih al-Bukhari 6065; Sahih Muslim 2563

6. Reconcile Between Muslims
The Qur’an praises peacemaking and reconciliation among believers.

“So fear Allah and amend that which is between you.”— Surah Al-Anfal 8:1

7. Keep Away from Speech that Fuels Division
Backbiting, slander, mockery, and inflammatory speech weaken the Ummah.

The Brotherhood of the Sahabah and the Salaf
The Sahabah differed in some issues, but their differences did not destroy unity because they were anchored in sincerity, reverence for revelation, and love for the truth. They were not united upon personalities, but upon Islam.

Their unity was built on:
*tawhid,
*obedience to Allah and His Messenger ﷺ,
*justice,
*mercy,
*and seeking the truth over ego.

This is the model Muslims must revive today.

Unity in Islam is a religious obligation, but it must be unity upon truth. Muslims are commanded to unite on what Allah revealed and what the Prophet ﷺ taught, understood through the sound path of the pious predecessors. Disunity comes from ignorance, desire, innovation, arrogance, and partisanship. The cure is sincere return to the Qur’an, authentic Sunnah, and the understanding of the Sahabah and Salaf.

If Muslims want true brotherhood, they must hold firmly to Allah’s rope together, avoid division, and love one another for the sake of Allah.

Du‘a for Muslim Unity
O Allah, unite the hearts of the Muslims upon the truth, remove hatred and division from among them, guide them to the Qur’an and Sunnah, and make them brothers in faith as You love and are pleased with. Ameen.

A pipe dream!

After Muhammad's death, his family Ahl al-Bayt and his closest companions who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into internecine warfare against each other.

Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six months after her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph.

It was the same caliph, Umar, who ordered the death of the first convert to Islam at Medina, an elderly leader who became a close companion to Muhammad and proved his worth in battle. Sa'd ibn Ubadah was killed after a failed bid to be caliph.

Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman." 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death.

Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.

The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war...

And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam! The resulting schisms cannot and will never be healed. ee.slam was spawned and grew by the sword. The sword and bloodshed can never cease as long as it exists - because, that is why it exists..


TV

AntiChristian:
Your own worse pass this. Where do we even start?

•Apostolic Faith
•Christ Apostolic Church
•The Redeemed Evangelical Church (TREM)
•Mountain of Fire (MFM)
•Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG)
•Synagogue
•Lord's Chosen
•Roman Catholic Church
•Methodist Church
•Presbyterian Church
•African Baptist Church
•The Salvation Army
•Lutheran Church of Christ in Nigeria (LCCN)
•The African Church
•Church of Nigeria (Anglican Communion)
• Evangelical Church Winning All (ECWA)
• Church of Christ in Nations (COCIN)
• Christian Reformed Church of Nigeria (CRCN)
• Ekklesiyar Yan’uwa a Nigeria (EYN)
• Cherubim and Seraphim (C&S)
• Celestial Church of Christ (CCC)
• The Church of the Lord (Aladura)
• Living Faith Church Worldwide (Winners' Chapel)
• Christ Embassy (Believers' LoveWorld)
• Deeper Christian Life Ministry
• Assemblies of God Church Nigeria
• Salvation Ministries
• The Lord’s Chosen Charismatic Revival Movement.

And almost the churches in my street and around here are yet to be included.

Jesus said "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." Matthew 16:16

Which of all the 45,000+ church denominations are built on Peter's rock? Jesus had no church! Even the word Church was created long after Jesus in the 13th century so how did it find its way into the Bible and the words of Jesus?

Yes, but Christians allow other adherent to freely choose their own creeds - "The Lord knows those who are His" (2 Timothy 2:19) - we do not judge and condemn and execute vengeance. There is no Takfiri like practice pursuant to offing co-religionists.

Christian sects are not perpetually at each others throats in a murderous orgy of death and destruction like the moose.slims. It's one of ee.slams dirty secrets which you and your brethren here try to hide.

https://www.nairaland.com/3229194/seeking-muslim-solution-islamist-terrorism
https://www.nairaland.com/1218720/kill-anyone-backslides-islam


TV

honesttalk21:
Texts were always out in the open. That's how the religion spread so widely, and why you can copy a chunk in seconds if you want. If you brought up 9:5, nobody's hiding it. The real issue is what it actually allows. I've already said 8:39 and 9:29 are about warfare, and some classical jurists read jihad more broadly than self-defense. But a verse existing doesn't mean any random believer can go out and start violence on his own.

Your point being that as long as it is by duly constituted authority, the violence is ok?

honesttalk21:
About Buhari, sure, he could've pushed the IGP harder. That's fair to criticize. But that's a failure of the system, not a reason to blame the Qur'an. He told people not to take the law into their own hands anyway. The Sultan and Atiku don't run the police or the courts.

Failure of the system. Or perhaps the failure of a moose.slim president to insist on due process being followed where it would have led to the conviction of moose.slim criminals?

I revisited the reports and it is telling and damning that Buhari's condemnation was of the resort to what he termed "self-help". He didn't term it mob justice or an extra-judicial killing. He further went on to talk about the respect with which moose.slims around the world hold their prophet. And, how transgressions should not be taken into individual hands.

He did not condemn the actual killing, just the manner in which it was carried out. Most pointedly, his message implied that the victim had done something wrong. Sans evidence and without a properly conducted investigation

There are no blasphemy laws in the constitution of the FRN. His response (along with all the others by senior moose.slim figures) was a "sharia-compliant" one. Which tacitly winked at the action and sent a clearly understood nod to the moose.slim ummah.

Likewise, the moose.slim governor of the state took no meaningful action. He convened a meeting of moose.slim leaders to forestall further riots or violent protests - from who, one might ask? His assurances to the deceased family that justice would be served went no further than that day's newswire.

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/529549-buhari-condemns-murder-of-deborah-samuel-for-alleged-blasphemy.html?tztc=1
https://www.withinnigeria.com/news/2022/05/13/deborah-buhari-finally-reacts-to-gruesome-murder-of-sokoto-female-student/

honesttalk21:
Calling Bush and Obama useful eejits isn't an argument, it's name-calling. Obama's Christian, and a politician's speech doesn't prove what the Qur'an allows.

True about the value in argument terms. I won't quibble or distract with this. Retracted without prejudice.

honesttalk21:
9:5 sits right between 9:4, which exempts people who kept their treaties, and 9:6, which offers safe passage to anyone seeking it. 9:38-39 is about a call to mobilize that the Prophet himself made, and 9:122 says not everyone goes. Bukhari 3014-3015 says don't kill women and kids, and 3166 protects treaty holders. That night-raid hadith you quoted is commonly read as collateral damage, not aiming at civilians. Muslim 19:4294 offers Islam, jizya, or fight, not a bare convert or die.

How much better is a convert or die ultimatum than a convert, accept dhimmitude or die one? Lots more verses and hadith posted to buttress my position.

honesttalk21:
If you want to talk campaigns, executions for insult, or captive women, bring up the incident, the source, and the reliability. A raid isn't the same as forced conversion, and one weak report doesn't rewrite the rules.

You would defend the killing of old women and forced concubinage?

honesttalk21:
The Mecca executions happened, yeah, but the offence is unreported, and those were state actions through a court, not random people acting on their own.

So that's all right then? Just like the decapitation of between 600-900 men?

honesttalk21:
Same standard for both books, so don't toss away context for the Qur'an after calling Deuteronomy time-bound.

You are way more learned than to not understand that Christians do not follow the OT law. Or the transition from Law to Grace and the attendant ushering in of the gentiles as righteousness is now in Christ. Or the fact that the OT, its prophecies, poetry and history apart, are a covenant between God and the Israelites - not binding or enforced on anyone else. And no one, Christian or Jew acts on those texts today. The ee.slamic texts are considered god-breathed, eternal and unchanging!

honesttalk21:
So, yes or no, do the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah let an ordinary Muslim launch an attack by himself? If you say no, that closes the case on individuals, so the debate shifts to states and jurists. If you say yes, then name the exact verse, the hadith, and the principle.

Yes. The onus is on you to show that an individual moose.slim, mob or militia require state-sponsored approval or the writ of scholars or jurists in order to emulate the ee.slam.ic prophiet.

And yes again. Even if it is state-sponsored or executed, it is totally consonant with the ee.slam.ic imperative. As if iee.slam did not burst out of the Arabian peninsula with the sword at the fore? Did it being a Caliphate driven conquest make it right? Who is splitting hairs over the difference. The outcomes are the same, oppression, violence, destruction.


TV

With a charge of worldwide domination, singularity in worship and the imposition of sharia, how could there not be wholesale slaughter and bloodshed. Especially for such a regressive and carnal ideology (let's be honest, it barely qualifies as a religion)

Sahih Muslim (31:5918) - "I will fight them until they are like us." Ali's reply to Muhammad, after receiving clarification that the pretext for attack Khaibar was to convert the people.

Sahih Bukhari 2:35 - "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)."

Tabari 7:97 - The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 - "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Tabari 17:187 - "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Cutting off someone's head while shouting 'Allahu Akbar' is not a 'perverison of Islam', but a tradition of Islam that began with Muhammad. In this passage, a companion recounts an episode in which he staged a surprise ambush on a settlement: "I leapt upon him and cut off his head and ran in the direction of the camp shouting 'Allah akbar' and my two companions did likewise".

I[b]bn Ishaq/Hisham 992[/b]: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.


No one has to make a case for the violently oppressive and murderous nature of ee.slam. It is perfectly capable of doing that all by itself. In fact, it celebrates that very nature.


TV

Hadith nko? In exactly the same vein. It's basically, don't believe in god? don't worship god? don't worship our god? don't worship ur god the way we think you should? Death. Death, death, death. Try to apostacise? Won't join? Have questions or doubts? Won't fight in our cause? Dare to query or in any way doubt our prophet? Death. Death, death, death

In ee.slam, violence and murder are not just common, they are customary, they are codified. Don't attend prayer, killed, insult the prophet, murdered. Fast-track to heaven - wholesale slaughter. How can anyone defend this or deny its charge?

Sahih Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Sahih Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word (Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today. (See also Sahih Bukhari 3:125)

Sahih Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Sahih Bukhari (52:44) - A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed."So much for your "t's only 2nd or 3rd, and not compulsory. Can a moose.slim apologist do anything but lie and obfuscate? Deceive, falsify, fabricate and scheme?

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Sahih Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Sahih Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Sahih Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Sahih Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."

Sahih Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Sahih Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Sahih Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Sahih Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Sahih Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."

Sahih Muslim (31:5917) - "Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: 'Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?' Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: 'Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger'." The pretext for attacking the peaceful farming community of Khaibar was not obvious to the Muslims. Muhammad's son-in-law Ali asked the prophet of Islam to clarify the reason for their mission to kill, loot and enslave. Muhammad's reply was straightforward. The people should be fought because they are not Muslim


TV

Kukutente23:
What is actually interesting about Islam's theology is that the first known monotheistic religion in the world which is Zoroastrianism is missing from its exposition of religions that emphasized the oneness of God. Instead, its narrative is basically founded on the Jewish chronology of Yahweh while it adopted the Arabic name of a tribal god to replace Yahweh.

Confusing still is that a lot of the process of worship is adopted from Zoroastrianism such as the sujud, circumambulation, fasting in a prescribed month, facing the East to pray and the shahada. These practices are alien to Judaism but found common in Zoroastrianism.

The biggest confusion is in claiming that all Jewish forebears were Muslims who practiced Islam while the Jews have never heard of any religion called Islam in their ancestry and their national God is named Yahweh not Allah.

Worse still, if you check according to the Qur'an, after Nur's flood, all the people on earth were Muslims which means Islam was the only religion on earth. However, by the birth of Muhammad, no one had ever heard of a religion called Islam. No one ever remotely knew of any book given to Noah to start the new world.

The last prophet before Muhammad is Isa (Jesus) and in the approximately 600years between them, Islam obviously became extinct.

Neither the Qur'an nor hadith explain to us how Islam became extinct after Isa (Jesus) from being the only religion on earth in Nur's (Noah) time and the possibility of such occurring again!

Excellent post.

There are no epigraphs, artefact or evidence of any kind to suggest ee.slam. existed before the 7th century.
There is no sign of the books purportedly given to Noah, Moses, David or Jesus.
There is zero evidence that the OT mentions or knows of a god called al ha!
Nor is there any proof that this god al ha! is the same as the one mentioned in the OT.

All we can find are copied texts, false claims and contrived narratives. And of course threats, violence and bloodshed if you disagree.

Come to Christ, come to the truth, to the one who loves you and gave himself for you, and be set free.
Come, because He is soon coming for His own.


TV

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence at the time of Muhammad was to convert to Islam: prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars. The popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

[Note: The verse says to fight unbelievers "wherever you find them". Even if the context is in a time of battle (which it was not) the reading appears to sanction attacks against those "unbelievers" who are not on the battlefield. In 2016, the Islamic State referred to this verse in urging the faithful to commit terror attacks: Allah did not only command the 'fighting' of disbelievers, as if to say He only wants us to conduct frontline operations against them. Rather, He has also ordered that they be slain wherever they may be – on or off the battlefield.]

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


More from the main text, but happy to proceed to the hard.eeth if you would like.

TV

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to claim that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous - the actual Arabic words for persecution (idtihad) - and oppression (a variation of "z-l-m" do not appear in the verse. The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle. The targets of violence are "those who disbelieve" - further defined in the next verse (13) as "defy and disobey Allah." Nothing is said about self-defense. In fact, the verses in sura 8 were narrated shortly after a battle provoked by Muhammad, who had been trying to attack a lightly-armed caravan to steal goods belonging to other people.

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."


BRB
TV

honesttalk21:
That's Buhari, mentioned before you said I neglected him. As President he said it. He couldn't order a state court, but the prosecutor who stayed away on Jan 30, 2023 was a police inspector, Insp. Khalid Musa, and the police answer to the President through the IGP. The real question is whether the family of the deceased used other legitimate ways to push the case to a conclusion. You seem to want a president personally driving every such case, against the constitution and at the expense of his other core duties. The Sultan and Atiku command no police and prosecute no one. The failure was the police's and the state's, not scripture's.
Regarding Jihad, Bukhari 25 ranks it after belief, and 2782 (your own post) after prayer and parents. Best deed hadiths measure virtue, not who must personally fight. Qur'an 9:122 says believers shouldn't all go forth, hence fard kifaya. It turns personal only when the land is attacked or the ruler calls. You've ignored this more than once.
Then about Mecca, the executions are confirmed, the video attached to them wasn't. Saudi cites a court, an upheld verdict and a royal order but never names the offence. The kiss and newlywed stories are unconfirmed, and Nazrul's family reportedly said he was unmarried. Killing them without telling Bangladesh, for an unnamed act, is open to criticism and I won't defend it. It was still a state acting through courts, not a mob.
Still no verse, authentic hadith or juristic principle licensing a private attack. Criticising Saudi law, the police or the Sultan doesn't supply it. Produce it.

Evidence for the murderous nature of ee.slam, xplicit in its texts and clear in its outworking always had a plusible deniability. Due mostly to the ignoranc eof those who would challenge it and ee.slams arcane nature. The restriction to the mushraf, the gatekeeping by "jurists", "scholars" and "duly constituted authorities". Artfully crafted propaganda, often by useful eejits like George W. Bush and the plant Barack Hussein Obama. But no longer, the internet is here. The texts are all available at the click of a button. Wind as they say "dey blow".

You presented a well marshalled argument against oppression and violence in ee.slam, but ultimately, it is futile. Yes you can dnce around the standard proof texts, the low lying ones that are usually in view. Mechanisms like "contextualising" and "historicising" can only get you so far . There is simply too much textual evidence.

Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.

Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.

Lets go to the texts shall we.


Be right back
TV

_{...and oh yeah, you did not mention Buhari the 2nd time around. All he had to do was order one of many officials or go direct to the IGP who is appointed and reports to the President and instruct him to ensure due process was followd. Is there nothing you will not offer up apologetics for? Nothing you won't excuse moose.slims and ee.slam from}

honesttalk21:
I don't know where I said that was good enough. Show me the line. What I said was that a prosecutor who stays away is a state failure, and it is. The people to ask why are the police, the AG's office and the governments of the time. The Sultan isn't government and neither is Atiku. One is a traditional and religious leader and the other is a former VP. They can condemn a killing but they can't charge anyone, and you still haven't named the number of ways the SoS could have pursued it.

And it's good enough that Buhari (who you neglected to mention), the SoS and Atiku did not follow up the matter and insist that justice was done? Like they didn't have the power, individually or jointly to ensure that it was? Seriously? Is the public murder of a young woman, a citizen of Nigeria in Sokoto, a sharia state, by moose.slims who claimed to have acted out of devotion to their god, caught on camera and at a tertiary institution, fine to let slip due to a police "no show". And these leaders let it rest at condemnatory words - if that? So telling of ee.slam and what it does to peoples minds and hearts.

honesttalk21:
Now your links. Liyatu Samuel was tried at the Borno State High Court under Section 210 of the Penal Code (the child-custody provision), which the reports themselves and legal analysts say has no application to an adult who testified she converted freely. That's a state court applying a state statute. It isn't a Sharia court and it isn't the Qur'an. Even the report's own legal analysts say the charge makes no sense, and an appeal is being prepared. If the report is right, it's a bad judgment that should be quashed. A court acting under a law is authority, which is the thing I've been asking you about since Sept 30. You can't use it to prove a private licence to attack.

A moose.slim judge. Jihad and oppression on all fronts in every way possible, No excuse required, just opportunity.

honesttalk21:
The Bangladeshi pair is social media hype, and you know it. The OP itself says "
unverified. The graphic video circulating is a 2015 execution of a Myanmar woman, not these two people. Nobody has published what the exact offence was or what the trial looked like. The kiss story is a rumour, and a screenshot of X isn't a source. If Saudi Arabia really executed two people for an unspecified immoral act, that's a state's taʿzir discretion, and I can't call it right or wrong without the facts. Neither can you. It's a state again, not a mob.

The video was attached to create effect, which was wrong. The incident however is real. Ee.slam, so bloodthirsty, it slaughters its own - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmde83w13p00o,
https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/saudi-arabia-execution-bangladeshi-nationals-kiss-mecca-conspiracy-answers-14054256.html
https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/saudi-arabia-executes-bangladeshi-man-woman-for-indecent-acts-inside-mecca-mosque-1.500711645

honesttalk21:
On jihad ranking, 2nd or 3rd means highly valued. It doesn't make it compulsory on every Muslim. Your own Oct 2 post has prayer and parents ahead of it. The jurists call military jihad fard kifāya, a communal duty, and I've said so three times without an answer. Dar al-Islam and Dār al-Harb aren't in the Qur'an or Bukhari either. Jurists built them, and you say jurists have no authority.

First was monotheistic belief. Optional second was honouring parents. Second or third was Jihad. Which of the other 2 are optional? Or any that might place behind it? But let's go with "Highly Valued". Combined with it being the only sure way to enter paradise, is that not incentive enough?

Where do the ee.slam.ic scriptures state that jurists or scholarly rulings are required to practice montheism, believe tahwid or honour your parents? Why should they be? They are basic ee.slam.ic imperatives - as is jihad in the cause of Aa.Lah.

honesttalk21:
Still waiting for the verse, the authentic hadith and the juristic principle that let an ordinary Muslim attack on his own initiative.

There is no divine writ for what qualifies or who appoints jurists or scholars. The shia have ayatollahs, but that is a relatively late construct. Ee.slam is not first by ecclesiasticall writ, it's by prophetic example - whatever the ee.slam.ic prophet did is worthy of emulation, not what any self-supposed scholar, jurist, sheik or authority rules.

Apart oneness and shirk, there is literally no consensus on any doctine in the religion anyway. Opinions (because that is all they are in truth) are often situational or conditional or read with the view to protect or advance the eeslam.ic ideoplogy. As noted, very little is sacrosanct.

Neither is there any divine writ specifically saying adherents should only act under guidance from duly constituted authority (even what duly constituted authority is and its reach in ee.slam is in dispute). Otherwise mob killings, summary justice and lynchings would not pervade. The case the Bangladeshi couple is further evidence. Theirs was murder carried out under the guise of constituted authority. A state-sponsored execution.

The spectrum is how strong or authoritarian the state vs. how much the moose.slim citizens can take into their own hands. The graph plot is how ee.slam.ic vs. how authoritarian. Pakistan, Bangladesh and northern Nigeria are infamous for the summary street level murders for things such as cartoons, ripped or incorrectly handled korans, or alleged slights of the religions icons. Whilst at the state level, it's such as the Bangladeshi couple or state-sponsored millitia. Iran sponsors millitia across the middle-east and into Africa, whilst it citizens lack bare drinking water. Jihad or we die .

And agreed, the abode of war and abode of peace notion is not from the text. But it is embedded in ee.slam.ic thought and practice. And more importantly its outworking. Again, the victims of 9/11 wouldn't care. To Deborah its a needless distinction - splitting hairs. All that we know for sure is that moose.slims act on it,


TV

GreenCovering:
This so called claim occurred after the supposed resurrection of Jesus which according to Islam does not exist. It's a complete hogwash. This is strengthened by the conflicting accounts of the aftermath of the crucifixion even in your bible.

Please! Nothing is ee.slam is verfied by historical or non-ee.slam.ic sources. Nothing that can contradict the Torah or the Gospel, or that was previously unnown.

GreenCovering:
We have stories of companion of the holy prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) and other muslim saints who calmed seas, walked over water or saved sinking ships but we don't refer to these people as omnipotent. Their call to God were simply accepted by God at that point as far as Islam is concerned.

As in fables, tale by moonlight, just-so stories. Nothing attested to or historically affirmed by non-ee.slam.ic sources. Nothing near-term of scientifically validated. Nothing!

GreenCovering:
Something alfas in your neighbourhood are doing effectively on a daily without carrying microphone to hoodwink people?

Nothing! No current or historical records.

GreenCovering:
"There is no Muslim who is afflicted with illness or any hardship except that Allah removes his sins just as a tree sheds its leaves."1
— Sahih al-Bukhari 5660 & Sahih Muslim 257

Perhaps this is what Jesus was referring to. That is, the man was in distress already and has the mercy of God. But the envious scribes were quick to be accusative of him.

Nope! Hadiths are not contemporary or even near-term to the ee.slam.ic prophet or his lifetime. Not catalogued with academic rigour or scientifically validated, and mostly composed to strengthen political and factional claims. Not accepted by all moose.slims and often disputed, or used tactically to buttress other fabricated narratives

GreenCovering:
Many muslims saints attained this feat too. Again, Islam treats them as prayer answered.

Muslim saints - lol!

GreenCovering:
Generally people accept faith and believe in God so that they have eternal life in Paradise. So how is this verse you quoted any more special than that? But if you want to use this as a proof for omnipotence then let me share this with you in Islam: There are people the holy Prophet Muhammad has mentioned by name that they have already made Paradise while they were still living on earth. That is, nothing is going to change that forever. Do we then call him omnipotent because of this? No. Rather, it is the privileged revelation to him by God that let him know this. Even your bible scholars call that verse the verse of the good shepherd. How does that mean omnipotence. Is shepherding showing omnipotence? So your own understanding is skewed.

The prophet of ee.sla did not know his own end. How could he have foretold others
Chapter 46 verse 9 - Say, "I am not something original among the messengers,1 nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner."

GreenCovering:
Moving on. The concept of Miracle in Islam is broader than what you have listed above. In Islam, there are miracles that are considered anecdotal and there are miracle that are considered universal. Anecdotal miracles are considered localised and restricted to the time and people where they occurred. Everything you have listed fall into this category. None of the so called miracles can be attested to by anyone again today beyond the places and times where they occurred.

The works of The Lord Jesus Christ (All Authority Be Unto Him - AABUH) were attested to by non-Christian sources.

GreenCovering:
As a result they are usually subject to dispute, doubt or even rejection. Whereas for universal miracle, it is witnessed from the time that it happened and will continue to be witnessed by all who are living till the end of time. The holy prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) is blessed with both categories of miracles. My point is built around the universal miracles:

Nope - he hmself said he was only a messenger. In the Quran, when he was asked to perform a miracle to witness his claims, he repeatedly says that he was sent with none, and gives the reason. Any claims in the wholesale bogus hadiths, was to buttress false claims and problematic lack of witness. The koran for you;

They say, “Why hath not a sign been sent down unto him from his Lord?” SAY, “Signs belong unto the Lord: and as for me, I am but a plain preacher. Al Ankabut 29:48

The unbelievers say, “Why hath not a sign been given by his Lord? Nay, but thou art only a Warner; and unto every people there hath been given a guide. Al Ra’d 13:8

And when thou dost not show unto them a sign, they say, “Why hast thou avoided to bring it?” SAY, “Verily, I follow that only wherewith the Lord hath inspired me.” This (revelation) is a witness from your Lord, a guide and a mercy to the people that believe.
Al Araf 7:204

And nothing hindered Us from sending (thee) with miracles, but that those of old time gave them the lie Bani Israel 17:58

GreenCovering:
Have you ever wondered why since the first time the holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) performed salat, it has remained so till the present day and so shall it remain till the day of judgment? Today over 2 billion people the world over perform the same salat that he did that first time, at the same exact times that he performed them, of the same numbers and using the same set of Divine words. That is an example of a universal miracle. No other prophet of God commands this influence on humanity. And it is going to remain so till the world comes to an end. He also gave us the Holy Qur'an, same book wherever you go in the world. And it shall remain so till the day of Judgement. No version this or version that, or a type for one group and another type for another group. These are some of the common and obvious examples to start with. Essentially his worships became natural laws. Have you ever wondered this?

Not miracles, rituals, catechism. Also answered above.

You do a nice line in sweet fables, but no truth. Such sweetness rots souls.


TV

honesttalk21:
Interesting it has taken my further explanation for you to answer. You said never charged to court; the two suspects were arraigned within days, and the case was struck out on 30 January 2023 when the police prosecutor stayed away without explanation.

And that for you, the SoS, AA and thw whole polity is good enugh? That ends the matter. A young woman is slaughtered in broad daylight, on camera with the killers prating about the act, and you are happy that it ended with "the police prosecutor stayed away without explanation", as presumably were Buhari, SoS, AA?. Right you are .

honesttalk21:
Some northern states, Sokoto included, have Sharia criminal law by state legislation, but prosecution still belongs to the Attorney-General and police, and Sharia appeal courts constitutionally cover civil personal law only, so the Sultan could not have charged them at all. A state failing to prosecute shows state failure, not what Islam permits.

But somehow sharia managed to jail a Christian for 14 years for simply sharing her faith? Even applying a non-applicable law to secure the "conviction". Right you are . https://www.nairaland.com/8767036/christian-woman-liyatu-samuel-dawa
Or what of this? - https://www.nairaland.com/8768452/video-newlywed-bangladeshi-couple-allegedly

honesttalk21:
Atiku says his handle posted that tweet without his approval and his rival disputes it, so your why is a guess stated as fact. The Sultan condemned the killing, and Buhari's statement said no one may take the law into his own hands and that constituted authority must deal with such matters.

Yes, let's issue condemnatory statements. Justice? Pah, who needs it? Why use our influence and authority on such trivial matters? Right you are .

honesttalk21:
You said that if this violated Islam, authority should have prosecuted it, which makes authority the test of what Islam permits, the distinction you called needless.

Ee.slam.ic authority, could have pursued this in a number of ways apart the legal prosecution. Bogus condemnatory statements were as far as it managed.

honesttalk21:
As for your link, Bukhari 25 ranks jihad second, but your own Oct 2 post has prayer and parents above it, so the ranking isn't fixed, and Dar al-Islam is jurists' work, which you reject. Neither says who may start a fight. Quote the licence for a private attack.

So Jihad ranking 2nd or 3rd is not suggestive of anything? Or in any way diminishes the significance of the phyical jihad imperative incumbent upon all moose.slims? Please, why does ee.slam divide the world into 2 parts - "The Land of Peace" and "The Land of War"?


TV

honesttalk21:

---

I was stating how TV first claimed Muslims never condemn, then, when shown that a high-profile condemnation from the Sultan occured, he switched to complaining that the condemnation was insufficient, while still refusing to produce the textual licence for private vigilante violence that the whole argument rests on.

Produced here - https://www.nairaland.com/8754224/oppression-islam-types-stance-teachings/2#140947714.

And yes, any condemnation was mere crocodile tears. The murder happened in his caliphate, his city. Where he wields ultimate religious power. If indeed, what they did was a violation of ee.slam.ic tenets, he should be the one to ensure justice is done in the name of that same ee.slam.

They were filmed, boasted bare-faced on camera, never charged to court, and educated moose.slim lawyers offered to defend them pro-bono if they ever were. You would exculpate ee.slam based on mealy-mouthed condemnation?

Why was Atiku's condemnation on social media removed. Because he was rounded on by moose.slims - who always wink at any crime committed by their faithful against non-believers. The reverence for the SoS is such that they couldn't do the same to him.

What he did is effectively taqqiya, as it had zero effect on justice being done, or showing it did not represent ee.slam. Which could only have been proven by the religious authority - of which the SoS is the highest in the land - ensuring they were charged as violating ee.slamic jurisprudence - which prevails in the north.

Keep obfuscating, rationalising and justifying, while people are being wholesale slaughtered - literally daily in Nigeria alone. The deniers and apologists are as evil as the actual perpetrators they cover for.


TV
.

jokerphilics:
Generalization without confirmation will only make you look stupid Bruv. When there are countless number of muslims, both the clerica and ordinary Muslim was against it(jungle justice)

I agree with your point about generalisation. However, with ee.slam, confirmation comes via it's outworking. It has a bloody history. Violence and bloodshed always follow.

jokerphilics:
If what the crusaders did was retaliating. Was there Islamic colonisation in America, lots of countries in Africa before their brothers in faith ( brothers of crusaders meaning the whites) killed, enslave and colonized them(these countries)? Did you bother to read about what the crusaders did to the citizens and their properties when they took back these countries,take Spain for example? Is that getting what they lost back or you just talk about what you don't know? If the country you live is a colonized country which definitely the colonization was done by the whites. Did these white people just colonozed your forefathers with open hands or there was killing? Jowbis Christianity spread action the word? Isn't it throughout these colonizations coupled with enslavement andbthe like? And you want me to tajebthat religion serious? Or do you think I'm a Muslim that don't read like you?

And now you resort to not only generalisation, but also jumbling up points, many unrelated. But I shall answer.
1. War is a terrible thing. And where it happens atrocities - war crimes always follow. Indeed, war is the crime! Both sides committed atrocities, but ee.slam started it and justifies it.
2. The ee.slamic\Arab trans-Saharan slave trade lasted longer, took more slaves and treated them worse than the Atlantic slave trade. In fact, You can still purchase black slaves in moose.slim\Arab countries today. Saudi only abolished slavery under threat from the UK as recently as the 1960's. And that was a pretend de jure move. De facto slavery still exists and most imprtantly is not haram in ee.slam.
3.Slavery is condemned and outlawed by all historically Judeo-Christian nations. They ended as far as possible a practice by all civilisations through time. Black African countries enslaved each other. Mansa Musa and the Dahomey kingdom were infamous for the slave=trade accumulated wealth. African tribes sold their brethren to the European slave traders - the British fought to have slavery abolished in Nigeria - read the accounts of the Oba of Lagos and the threat of force from the British of he did not cease. Who was Madam Tinubu? A renowned slave trade, who refused to stop even after abolition. Stop playing victim. Black people and Islam practised slavery. Islam enslaved black people.
4. Christianity doe snot preach or practice slavery and it was Christianity that effectively abolished it. Ee.slam still practices it.
5. Colonisation was wrong. How colonised nations would have fared otherwise, is at best debateable.

jokerphilics:
You said others would have joined if they have the opportunity. If that's the case why am I saying otherwise now to you? Or did you halt me from doing it saying so for me to say otherwise on this platform?

Jihad takes many forms, per my earlier post. And yes, many would gleefully join in physical jihad if chanced.

jokerphilics:
About the verses that says kill. You know nothing about those verses, hence the reason you are typing what you are typing on here. Whatever verse that you misquotebti mean such, quote it here and I will explain it to you. You don't pick a verse out of context in our religion. You understand it before talking about which is why people like you, whatever you say doesn't count?

Explained in my earlier response. We now the history, we know the application, We know the aim, and it requires Jihad to achieve it. Sixty million in India alone. Dey play!


TV

jokerphilics:
.

Like I do say that what someone that calls himself a Muslim do is not the justification for what Islam stands for. You know about a religion by their book. These people you show are not the representation of Islam. You don't have a point. If you have I might take America and Israel currently as a representation of Christianity and say you people are killers which is even true according to what the bible says?

I agree, a religion is to be judged by its text and commands. Its tenets and its precepts. Ee'slam if first and foremost a political ideology with an icing of religion. It's aim is to dominate and subject the whole world.

I agree there are differing opinions amongst scholars and laymen as to how certain scriptures should be interpreted, but interpretations of jihad and conquest are apparent and valid.

Yes, anything the US or Israel do that is wrong or terroristic should be, and is condemned. But none of it is done based on the Judeo-Christian scriptures. They do not claim they are doing it to please God. And the are not Christian nations. Although with a Judeo-Christian history, they are secular..

Jihad was so important to the founder of Islam, Muhammad, that he declared it to be the second most important deed in Islam.

"Allah's apostle was asked, 'What is the best deed?' He replied, 'To believe in Allah and his Apostle.' The questioner then asked, 'What is the next (in goodness)?' He replied, 'To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's cause.'" – The Hadith, Al Bukhari, Vol. 1 no 25.

Muslims, in fact, divide the world into two sectors: Dar-al-Islam (the House of Islam) and Dar-al-Harb (The House of War). The only countries considered to be at peace are those where Islamic law (the Sharia) is enforced.

Islam in Arabic means submission, surrender or subjugation. A Muslim is one who submits. The Arabic word for peace is Salam. Islam is the active form of Salam. Muslims see themselves as a "peace making force" using argument, intrigue, commerce, threats, terrorism, warfare and every other means possible to secure Islam as the only religion worldwide.
Muslims are not permitted to make peace with a non-Muslim country until its inhabitants surrender to Islam. They can agree to a cease fire for a period of time – but never to peace with non Muslims.

The Quran teaches that Muslims are superior to others: "Ye (Muslims) are the best of peoples evolved for mankind . . ." Surah 3:110.

Muslims are forbidden to befriend Jews or Christians: "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is one of them . . ." Surah 5:54.

Islam instructs its adherents to fight until their opponents submit. Christians and Jews may be spared if they pay "Jizya" – a penalty tax – with willing submission: "Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day . . . Nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay Jizya (tribute taxes) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" Surah 9:29.

"Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait (ambush) for them in every strategem (of war) . . ." Surah 9:5 (also 2:193).

For those who resist Islam – execution or mutilation is decreed: "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land . . ." Surah 5:36.

The Hadith, which is a record of the words and deeds of Muhammad, is also viewed by Muslims as inspired. Next to the Quran, it is the most important source of Islamic Law. It's teachings are regarded as binding on all Muslims.

The Hadith teaches that apostasy is punishable by death: "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57.

A Muslim may not be punished for killing a non-Muslim: "No Muslim should be killed for killing a kafir (infidel)." Vol 9:50

Those who die in holy war are guaranteed to go to Heaven. "The person who participates in Jihad (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed)." Vol 1:35

It may be hard for Christians to understand the concept of such a militant religion, but the primary aim of Islam is not spiritual but political. The ultimate purpose of Islam is the establishment by force of a worldwide Islamic state where Sharia law is enforced on all.

To achieve this is the goal of Jihad. Islamic scholars identify a multitude of forms that Jihad can take:

1. There is the Jihad of Words. Muhammad was a brilliant and gifted orator silencing his enemies in a war of words. In Arab culture it was customary for feuding tribes to select a poet to mock and provoke the opposing forces with spontaneous verses of cursing. These linguistic warriors engaged in verbal combat seeking to inspire their own side with a sense of superiority and strength whilst undermining the morale of the enemy. This war of words, which Muslim leaders today such as Gaddaffi, Saddam Hussein and Yassar Arafat still engage in, is actually a war of nerves.
2. There is the Jihad of Deception. When Muslims are small in number they can follow the example of Muhammad's 83 followers who fled from persecution in Mecca to Abyssinia (present day Ethiopia). There the Christian Negus (king) offered them refuge. When the Meccans demanded their return as slaves, the Muslim exiles declared that Islam was merely a variation of Christianity. The Muslims selectively recited those passages of the Quran that agree with the Bible such as the virgin birth and miracles of Jesus and His ascension to Heaven and ultimate return. They remained silent on the unbridgeable differences (such as the denial of the Trinity and the atonement) between the Quran and the Bible. As a result the Christian Abyssinians protected the Muslims from the Meccans.

In this way, when it was most vulnerable, Islam grew and developed in a Christian environment. (If we only demonstrate our Christian love without proclaiming the truth of the Gospel we could strengthen anti-Christian forces).

Muhammad compromised with the Meccan merchants during a particularly intense time of persecution. Formerly he had fearlessly condemned polytheism. Then, under pressure, he accepted the Meccan belief that Allah had a wife, Al-lat, and two daughters, Al Uzzo and Manat (Surah 53:20-23). Later Muhammad repudiated these so called Satanic Verses and claimed that all previous prophets had been tempted by demonic influence.

3. There is the Jihad of the Sword. After fleeing to Medina (the Hijra) in AD622, Muhammad started to summon his followers to attack and plunder the caravans of Mecca. His followers initially resisted these calls until Muhammad presented a series of "revelations" commanding Jihad (holy war) and permitting looting ("Whoever has killed an enemy and has proof of that, will possess his spoils" – The Hadith, Vol. 4 no. 370). Where the booty was not large enough, Muhammad held captives as hostages until their families paid a high ransom for their release. Hostage taking has continued to be a common practise in Islam to this day. Those who participate in Jihad are granted a blanket absolution (Surah 8:17) and guaranteed to go straight to Paradise (Heaven) if killed.

4. There is the Jihad of Taxation and Financial Reward. Those who refuse to submit to Islam are forced to pay a special tax for non- Muslims (Jizya). Those who convert to Islam are often offered financial rewards or scholarships.

5. There is the Jihad of Slavery. Those Muslims who engage in Jihad not only can seize property, extort ransoms and demand taxes, but also capture slaves. The only places in the world today where slavery is still practised are in some Muslim countries. In Sudan, the Islamic government uses slavery as an incentive to encourage Arab Northerners to attack the Christian Blacks in the South, and as a weapon of terror to destabilize non-Muslims. According to the Sharia Law, Muslims are allowed to enslave, own and sell human beings.

6. There is the Jihad of the Sharia Law. Non-Muslims are degraded to a lower class status and are denied equal access to the law because their testimony is not valid against a Muslim. This even applies to murder ("No Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel"wink. The death penalty is applied to anyone who renounces Islam and converts to another religion.

When the wealthy Bedouins of Arabia professed faith in Allah to escape attack, Muhammad did not accept their confession. ("The desert Arabs say 'We believe'. Say, 'Ye have no faith; but ye (only) say 'We have submitted.'" Surah 49:14) Islam does not place much value on personal faith, but demands surrender to the political rule of the Sharia.

It is significant that the calendar of Islam does not begin with the birth of Muhammad, nor the onset of his supposed "revelation", nor the assembling of the first Muslim community, nor the flight of Muslim refugees to Abyssinia. The 12 years of persecution in Mecca were not considered the start of their new religion. The Muslim calendar only begins when Islam became a political state in Medina.

7. There is the Jihad of Polygamy. The devastating defeat of the Muslim forces by the Meccans in the battle of Uhud (AD625) led to what could be considered one of Islam's greatest victories. So many of his men were killed that Muhammad permitted his men to take up to 4 wives (Surah 4:3, 4). With the advent of Western medicine, infant mortality has plummeted. And the Muslim birthrate has skyrocketed. Muslims are increasing in number twice as fast as other religions. This is due to birth control and abortion in Western lands and polygamy in Muslim lands. Muslims are not increasing much by missionary outreaches, but by having many children. Polygamy (rather than persuasion) has become one of Islam's most effective weapons for Holy War, providing Islam with a disproportionate numerical advantage.

8. There is the Jihad of the Spirits. According to the Quran, Muslims are not only men and women but also spirits who fight for the spread of Islam (Surah 46:29-33 and 72:1-15). Also a Muslim is to fight on Muhammad's behalf both in his life and after his death (Hadith Vol. 1 chapter 43).

TV

GreenCovering:
By constantly remembering God in all his inactions and actions. Thus he attained to the highest level of closeness to God and he was, as a result, granted a visit to witness Divine Presence in heaven while he was alive as a human being as declared by the holy Qur'an:

This is at best an opinion. Please root it in religious text or in history so that it can be examined. It is in ee.slam that a narrative has to be contrived to buttress every claim. Claims which themselves are often lacking evidence or clear writ. For me, it fails to hold , fails to convince.

GreenCovering:
Glory be to the One Who took His servant ˹Muḥammad˺ by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque whose surroundings We have blessed, so that We may show him some of Our signs. Indeed, He alone is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
Qur'an 17:1

When did this happen? Please identify the mosques in question. Was it a physical or out of body experience?

Then he approached and came closer, and was at a distance of two bow-lengths or even closer
Qur'an 53:9

GreenCovering:
No other prophet of God has attained this status in their prophetic missions according to Islam.

According to ee.slam, which describes The Lord Jesus Christ as "sinless" and as the "Messiah"? According to ee.slam, which claims authorship of all the previous scriptures, which all point to and are fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ. Without the whiff of a mention or prophecy of anyone by the name of Muhammed?

GreenCovering:
Being at the pinnacle of spiritual state attainable by mankind means he has, by this constant remembrance of God and making God his central focus in all he does, attained such a spiritual status that saw him transcend all the heavenly bounds attainable by men and prophets and angels to the point that only God Almighty can speak of.

More opinion, further contrived narrative. Required to elevate Muhammed and justify his claims and the status his adherents ascribe to him.

GreenCovering:
Allahu ta'ala has never declared the Prophet Muhammad a sinner neither has he ever declared himself a sinner. Rather he operates within the guard rail of always seeking forgiveness from God as an act of supreme humility, gratitude, and a way to teach the Muslim community the best practice to approach God to purify your deeds or to seek forgiveness. One cannot claim goodness before God. Rather you protect your good works by asking forgiveness from God for your shortcomings even if your ways are pure. Thereafter He will raise you in ranks, status and influence because of your unblemished good works.

Works based acceptance by God?

Contrast this with the in-depth exposition of The Lord Jesus Christ as Holy, As a High Priest & Intercessor called by God Himself. How despite being sinless, he attained to the authorship of salvation to those who believe in Him by what he undertook on their behalf and the sacrifice He made for them. I never cease to be amazed by the fullness of the Christian scriptures. The detail,
comprehensiveness, how joined up and how much sense they make. I find all of this missing in the ee.slam.ic Scriptures.

Called by God
Hebrews 5:5 - So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.”
Hebrews 5:6 - As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”;
Hebrews 6:20 - where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:28 - For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

A fitting High Priest
Hebrews 2:14 - Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Hebrews 2:17 - Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 7:26 - For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

Obedience and the things He suffered to become the Autor of Salvation
Hebrews 5:8 - though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
Hebrews 5:9 - And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

I don't have to put together a just so story, or a nicely penned narrative to justify any claims. It's all there. Detailed, perfect, as is my Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ.

A faith that claims to be the continuation of Judaism and Christianity, fails to mention priesthood, propitiation, the requirements for being a mediator, the blood, the sacrifices or any of the other major themes. It merely points to a figure who has no connection, lineage, witnesses, no miracles or scripture to attest, just claims and artful narratives. I can't buy that. Sorry, not sorry.


TV

jaafree:
Quote a newspaper where it is reported that an Imam was caught inside a mosque having an affair with a woman anywhere in the world not only Nigeria. And I will prove it to you that the person is never an Imam. You don't even know who an Imam is, but you are here comforting your pathetic self with lies

https://www.boltburdonkemp.co.uk/our-insights/posts/imams-convicted-of-child-abuse-offences-in-the-uk/
https://news.sky.com/story/abdul-halim-khan-former-east-london-imam-guilty-of-child-sexual-abuse-after-claiming-he-had-supernatural-powers-13507698
https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/e64e50bfbdaa
https://www.indiablooms.com/phoenix/public/world/shock-in-new-york-bangladeshi-imam-arrested-over-child-abuse-allegations-inside-mosque/details
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/imam-accused-of-silencing-girl-s-family-over-abuse-allegat-341938/
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/religious-leader-found-guilty-of-child-sex-abuse-321260/
https://religionnews.com/2026/01/30/quran-revolution-founder-sentenced-to-80-years-on-child-pornography-charges/
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndal/pr/two-individuals-sentenced-70-and-80-years-conspiracy-sexually-exploit-child

You are welcome. Thank me by receiving Christ as your Lord and Saviour. There is no other Lord and there is no other Saviour.


TV

GreenCovering:
Omnipotence is not a requirement for intercession in Islam. Only God is Omnipotent in Islam. It is your acceptability before God that qualifies you for intercession.

I mentioned Hebrews earlier. Please read that book of the bible. It beautifully illustrates Christs sinlessness, holiness, high priesthood ministry, authority and everlasting life. Making him a fitting High Priest, author of salvation to those who believe and able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through Him. Splendid scripture vs. pulled out from my fundament narrative. Please!

GreenCovering:
Even Jesus did not teach his disciples that he is omnipotent when he was "alive" according to christianity. All these started when people started to claim that they saw things after the so called resurrection.

Omnipotence would be demonstrated and inferred rather than taught. I shouldn't have too, but here goes,

1. The Lord Jesus Christ claimed universal authority - Matthew 28:18
2. The Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated authority over nature - Mark 4:39
3. The Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated authority over demons - Mark 1:27
4. The Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated authority to forgive sins - Mark 2:5-7
5. The Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated authority life and death - John 11
6. The Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated authority over nature - Mark 4:39
7. The Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated authority to grant life - eternal life - John 10:28

Additionally, The Lord accepted worship and made the telling "I AM" statements - Before Abraham was I AM, being 1 of 7 instances,

So, not only omnipotent, but also omnipresent and omniscient - amen hallelujah!


TV

GreenCovering:
Holiness as far as humans are concerned in Islam is sinlessness. Or the purifying actions that makes one sinless.

Ok, we'll work with your definition. Please show with evidence from your texts exactly what this "purifying action" is, how it works or is applied.

GreenCovering:
The holy Prophet Muhammad is at the pinnacle of this state.

What does it mean to be at the "pinnacle" of this state of holiness? How, and since when did he attain to this state?. The ee.slam.c texts clearly show he was a sinner and required forgiveness. Words he himself uttered.

GreenCovering:
He is not only sinless, he is protected from falling into sins because of how God Almighty has created and configured him to live.

Again, his own words declared him to be a man like other men. How was he created or "configured to live" that sets him apart and above other men.

Do you not see the irony of your claims on a thread opened to caution against overpraising .


TV

Lukgaf:
Praise be to Allaah

It is permissible for a menstruating woman to recite Qur’aan according to the more correct scholarly opinion, especially if she needs to do that for fear of forgetting (what she had memorised), or to study for a test, or to seek healing thereby, on condition that she does not touch the Mus'haf (A Qur'an with Arabic text only), because no one should touch it except one who is in a state of purity.

Why are a book and the arabic language specifically being deified?


TV

Kukutente23:
You can only intercede for others when you're without sin yourself. Your fellow sinner cannot intercede on your behalf. To intercede is to take your place.

Keen to see how this is explained. The holes in the text means narratives have to be built to shore the beliefs up. But they rarely tie-out or make sense. Isa is the sinless one in ee.slam, why doesn't he intercede? How can a sinner, who requires intercession on his own behalf, intercede for another?

Kukutente23:
So in summary, if Islam teaches that no one can bear the sins of another, how then can there be an intercessor. And how come only Muhammad is holy in Islam?

Even keener, for their definition\understanding of "holiness" to be addressed.


TV

Rashduct4luv:
Overpraising the Prophet in Islam!
In Islam, the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ holds the highest rank among creation as the final Messenger of Allah.

Odd from the opening sentence. How does (not that he is, even in Islam) being the final messenger make you the highest ranking of creation - clear overpraise right there .

If as claimed he is a man like all other men and men are mere slaves, does that mean that slaves are the best the ee'slam.ic god could do?

GreenCovering:
Only the Holy Prophet Muhammad will be permitted by God Almighty to make this request on the Day of Judgment.

What makes him holy? What does ee'slam define as holy?

How does one who is not omnipotent know the state or deeds of each individual in order to make intercession for them.

Interesting riff on the role of the Lord Jesus Christ as High Priest, who knows all things and lives forever

Hebrews 7
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save [h]to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

The depths of the Christian scriptures, the coverage, the detail, the outworking, the prophecy, the fullness. All day, every day.


TV

Garlic is Superfood!
Way healthier than camel piss .

A religion that gives no leave for conscience or common sense. Treating followers like orcs? Explains in part why adherents seem unable to discern right from wrong. No notions of morality, righteousness or holiness.


Thank God for the Light that is Jesus Christ - God Incarnate!


TV

TenQ:
Unlike one religion where if a woman is divorced rashly by the husband thrice, she cannot return until she becomes humiliated again by tasting the orgasm of another man, divorce him , then return to her original rash husband

One of the unbelievably twisted and illogial things about the religion. Or maybe i am wrong, and there is a knowledgeable moose.slim who can explain this?

Is there is no bottom too this religion Just when you think it can't get any more ungodlike, any ,more absurd.


TV

honesttalk21:
[quote author=honesttalk21 post=140853708]The Sultan of Sokoto's condemnation of Deborah Samuel's killing also still defeats never.

Condemnation? Laughable. Did the SoS use his authority to ensure the killers - who carried out their barbaric act in plain sight - were brought to justice? Did moose.slim members of the NBA not offer to defend the murderers pro bone if the case ever came to court? Leave off. Ee.slam is what it is. Own it.

honesttalk21:
Six days to reply, and all you brought back was the same question. You say you stay far away from Islam, yet it's the one subject you keep returning to. Victims suffer the same either way, so the question is who is accountable and on what authority, which is why every legal system separates a lynching from an execution. If every position can be read from both ends, so can yours, and clear and absolute is gone. Sokoto, a named imam and the textual step are still unanswered do clearly provide these or shut up.

Needless distinctions. Ee.slam kills. Stay away from it.


TV

honesttalk21:
You've just made my point for me. If the attacks on Rushdie followed Khomeini's fatwa, what moved those individuals was a specific ruling from an authority, not verses read in isolation. That is the distinction you say doesn't exist.

A needless distinction. Did the ruing "authority" expressly state individuals should not act. Did the issuing "authority" decry the "rogue" action of individuals? Was the fatwa ever declared limited to the Ayatollahs jurisdiction?

honesttalk21:
Saying there's no difference between state and private violence also proves too much. Every legal system separates lawful state action from vigilantism, a soldier under authority from a murderer on his own initiative. Apply that consistently to Deuteronomy 20, Amalek and the Crusades.

And this makes a meaningful difference to Deborah Samuels or Salman Rushdie or any other victim of ee.slamic violence how?

honesttalk21:
The Rushdie ruling was not universally accepted by Muslim scholars. For example, scholars at Al-Azhar disputed Khomeini's authority to impose the sentence, and Rafiq Zakaria explicitly called the fatwa illegal under Islamic law. The Sultan of Sokoto's condemnation of Deborah Samuel's killing also still defeats never. Imams often encourage adherents to act on their own is an assertion. Name the imam, the sermon and the text he cites, then show the step from warfare verses to an ordinary Muslim initiating violence, or concede you haven't.

A standard excuse and part of the smokescreen deployed by apologists - no universal scholarly agreement. A point I've made before. Literally all positions can be read from both ends and be situationally dependant. And often are. The imperative is as long as it advances ee.slam.


TV

jokerphilics:
Quote or give link to where it's preached I the mosque pls?

Ok. You skipped the piece about Deborah Samuels - a cold-blooded murder winked at by the ummah.
You overlooked the response about the crusades - a well deserved retaliation for ee.slamic aggression.
You totally ignored the point about the bloodthirsty texts of your religion - replete and unambiguous.

Then you requested something you must know happens and can easily search out yourself. I never met anyone who tried to make a case for ee.slam that did not deceive and deflect. No change here - totally as expected.

One each from the UK and Oz. Start there and then search for yourself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUqWAs9jZK8&pp=ygUtaW1hbWFzIHRlYWNoaW5nIGppaGFkIGluIHRoZWlyIG1vc3F1ZSBzZXJtb25z

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxX6MgQtfoU

TV