₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
Scholar8200:

Compare this with:

ANd since the Spirit here is not Gabriel, I believe this Spirit has a relationship with God far deeper than that of Gabriel who is a malaika.A Spirit from Himself selah!


And that make him (Jesus) God?.

Expatiate on this:
If the Spirit here in question proceeds from Allah, how come Jesus could say, " I will send Him unto you"? Which should be the exclusive preserve of Allah?
At this point I believe we can all agree that the Spirit promised by Christ was not a man.



How can that be since he was also created? Does that apply to the rest angels too?


Did Angel not preceded human being? That's what i meant.

Meaning he ranks with the other angels since they all precede man. Okay.


But the definite article shows there has to be only One of that Kind. Could Gabriel's errands make him holier than the other malaikas?


And which other malaikat is more commissioned according to your Bible?. Which other malaika transmitted Divine message to prophets and messengers besides Gabriel?

Many Angels were sent in the Bible with Divine Messages to prophets and people in general!!! Their names were not mentioned! Only two were mentioned-Gabriel and Michael, of the latter, a high title was attached which was not used for Gabriel in all Scripture!


So which do you accept?


Very simple, Whether it's merely holy spirit or Gabriel, does that make Jesus God?. Quran says Jesus was conceived by word og Allah(God) "Be! and He was". How does that make Jesus(p) God?

But then such an One could declare that He will send the Holy Spirit and that the Spirit will come in His Name! Interestingly, it was interchanged-sometimes He said "the Father will send" , other times He said "I will send" underscoring the Truth-I and My Father are ONE!
That is sure higher than what a man can do!




Why is that? What position is the color highlighted text in relation to Allah?


See, here it's about Allah's Names and Attributes. Anything can emerge from His Almighty Names. I know that very well. Ruh Allah i:e Spirit Of Allah is a subject that has been dealt with many times. It is merely Word coming from Allah. Jesus is a word from Allah not "Word of Allah"

As per the text in blue, do you mean the Spirit is the Word? Do shed more light!


SPIRIT OF Allah IS BREATHED IN EVERY HUMAN BEING

A spirit from Allah does not indicate that Jesus (pbuh) is God. The Qur’an mentions in several places that Allah breathed into the human beings “His Spirit” in Surah Al-Hijr, chapter 15 verse 29 in Surah Sajdah, chapter 32 verse 9

Surah Al Hijr Chapter 15 verse 29

“When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.” [Al-Qur’an 15:29]



Surah Sajdah Chapter 32 verse 9

“But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!” [Al-Qur’an 32:9]

The verse above are talking abot Adam(p) and human beings generally. Why is Adam not God since God also breath is spirit in him as He did Jesus(p)?.

No one claims the Divinity of Christ based on the Anointing of the Spirit! I never said so! I know very well that there were many that were anointed and strengthened by the Spirit in the OT!


JOHN THE BAPTIST (PBUH) IS ALSO CALLED “A WORD” OF Allah

Yahya (pbuh) i.e. John the Baptist (pbuh) is also referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah i.e. a word of Allah in Surah Ali ‘Imran, Chapter 3, verses 38-39

“There did Zakariya Pray to his Lord, saying: “O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!

While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: “Allah doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet – of the (goodly) company of the righteous.” [Al-Qur’an 3:39]

Why is John not God just because he was also word from Allah?.
Hear John speak:
"...He that comes after me is preferred before me; for He was before me!
John 1:15b
Making it clear that Jesus is, and was before him not on the basis of age since John was born before Jesus but on a greater and infinitely higher basis!

And hear what John's mum had to say:

"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Luke 1:43
She said this at a time when she was pregnant with John.

The Word that was God became has been from the beginning and was made flesh!


But He clearly declared that He was One with the Father! Jesus did not say the message would abide forever He clearly said He - the Holy Spirit- will abide with the believers forever. Besides, the Holy Spirit was to be sent in Christ's Name and indwell believers-two things He never did up till that time! In the past the Spirit was sent only to Kings and Prophets and that not permanently. But now He would be coming to indwell all believers! See the difference?


So going by your word, for argument sake, let's assume the "Holy Spirit" sent in Jesus names dwells inside believers (even today) why then Christians doctrines are different?. Right now we have Christians who dont believe Jesus is God. Some Christians dont believe in trinity etc. Question is if the holy spirit sent in the name of Jesus is pure and dwell inside every christian, why do you not all believe the same way?. For instance, no Muslim believe Jesus or Muhammad is God. This is universal among concept Muslims. To believe otherwise is tantamount to disbelieve and blasphemy.


Pay close attention to my point again, if John 14 15 is referring to "holy spirit" which is supposedly dwell in every christian, why do churches and Christians' doctrines differ greatly in terms of salvation?. Some Christians believe Jesus is God; and to reject that concept is detrimental and jeopardizes their salvation. Some Christians believe Jesus is not God simply because he did not say so. They did not see that statement in their Bible. Now, is the holy spirit deceiving you people by giving you different doctrines?

The Word of God, not christian groups, is the final authority on matters like this. The Spirit works with the Word hence we try the spirits by the Word as commanded! Any body can claim to have the Spirit but the test is the Word! Jesus said the Spirit will reveal Truth and Himself to the disciples, that He will bring the Word to our remembrance etc Hence beyond the claims of having the Spirit, we examine the genuineness by the Word! Here many you have referred to fail!

If you will read the NT, you will see many prophecies that people will rise up to draw away disciples for themselves, teach heresies, deny the Lord and His Word etc Even at the beginning of the Church some false brethren tried to introduce things that had no place etc this is why every true christian stands with the Word, not denominational dogma especially when it contradicts the Word! I have seen so-called christians who will argue for their church practices and teachings even if you show them the Word is contrary to them, what then?



Consider that Genesis 18 carefully and ask who was the third Man called LORD and , like you just mentioned, Who is the Spirit that proceeds from God? Surely you agreed He is not an angel.
(for the records only, not related to thread)
If we say the God is One and that He is Three In One and that it is a mystery which we believe, Muslims mock, however there are instances in your reply where those you quoted implied that there were mysteries even they could not explain!


And how is this verse of Quran difficult for you to understand?. What you believe up there contradicts Oneness of God. It means you believe in Three gods. You getting really confused

A mystery does not mean the believers therein are confused!


"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs." Sura 004:171
Were these not the same people Muslims were asked to get clarification from being accused of exceeding limits? How do we reconcile this? And if the Quran was completed between 609-632, it means the Trinity was not a 17th century addition after all but had been there all along!

AlMuflihah:
Just try to use ur brain if u have 1.....even if all d ones written down were eaten by goats... did any goat eat d ones memorised by the Muslims?in Islam, we lay more emphasis on d memory as storage dan what is written down abi do goats in ur village eat what's in ppu's heads? If dats d case, it explains ur emptu headedness. U just dey lament eaten by goats blah blah blah like a goat...where dd u get dat from sef?

Empiree:
To be honest, this verse of Quran you quoted is self explanatory. Let's keep this simple. Malaika Jibreel (Angel Gabriel) is beloved by Allah. Their relationship is beyond human comprehension. We see throughout Quran that Angel Gabriel(as) had been commissioned since beginning of time. So he was addressed appropriately where and when Allah deemed fit. Allah addresses or calls his by different titles. However, I do have to commend you for your sincere thought. Your questions are legitimate.

When readers of the Qur’an hear the words “holy spirit,” they equate this expression with the Arabic, ruh-ul qudus. There are several Qur’anic passages that use this expression, but they do not clearly identify what or who this ruh-ul qudus is. One of those passages is the following as rendered in Yusuf Ali’s world-renowned translation:

Say: the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus) has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide, and glad tidings to Muslims. —Surat-un Nahl (16):102


Most Muslims believe this ruh-ul qudus to be Gabriel. Because he is an angel, they know that he is a spirit; and because he transmits the Word of Allah, he is in a special sense a very holy spirit. There are other passages, however, where the expression ruh-ul qudus is not as easily interpreted. For example, there are three Qur’anic passages that use the expression “holy spirit” in reference to the ministry of Isa Al-Masih.


"We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus)." —Surat-ul Baqara (2): 87



To Jesus the son of Mary, We gave clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus). —Surat-ul Baqara (2): 253



Then Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount my favor to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus).…” —Surat-ul Ma’ida (5): 110




Today, the common opinion is that the ruh-ul qudus of these verses refer again to the angel Gabriel. But according to the opinions of the early classical interpreters, such as Ibn Zayd, Ibn Abbas and Ibn Anas, and later confirmed by al-Baidawi (d.685/1282), in these passages ruh-ul qudus was understood in a variety of ways. Other interpretations included:




1. the spirit that Allah breathed into Isa; 2. the Injil that Allah sent down to Isa; and 3. the one name of Allah that superceded all others, which Isa invoked to perform miracles, such as raising the dead. In each of these instances, ruh-ul qudus was interpreted to be something more profound than an angel; it was something that was of Allah and that came down from Allah. Furthermore, in each of the above three passages, this holy spirit came to give strength to Allah’s servant. This idea is conveyed iN yet another verse of the Qur’an that speaks of believers fully devoted to Allah:


"He [Allah] has written faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself (ruh min hu)." —Surat-ul Mujadila (58): 22



Yusuf Ali, in his commentary for this verse, says the following: Here we learn that all good and righteous men are strengthened by Allah with the holy spirit. If anything, the phrase used here is stronger, “a spirit from Himself.” When anyone offers his heart in faith and purity to Allah, Allah accepts it, engraves that Faith on the seeker’s heart, and further fortifies him with the divine spirit, which we can no more define adequately than we can define in human language the nature and attributes of Allah.

Notice Yusuf Ali’s description of this spirit as “the divine spirit.”Again we see a reference to something that is of Allah, comes from Allah and comes to strengthen. We have already seen references of Isa Al-Masih being strengthened, but this is the only verse in the entire Qur’an that speaks about the common believer being strengthened by the Spirit of Allah.

I definitely concur with Yusuf Ali's theory. This subject leads us to subject of Islamic epistemology, which is grounded in sufism (the spiritual heart of Islam). The word Ruh (spirit) is very complex and can never be fully understood by human. Quran itself confirms that. In a story recorded by Al-Bukhari in his Tafsir of this Ayah that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said, "While I was walking with the Prophet on a farm, and he was resting on a palm-leaf stalk, some Jews passed by. Some of them said to the others, `Ask him about the Ruh.' Some of them said, `What urges you to ask him about that' Others said, `Do not ask him, lest he gives you a reply which you do not like.' But they said, `Ask him.' So they asked him about the Ruh. The Prophet kept quiet and did not give them an answer, and I knew that he was receiving revelation, so I stayed where I was. When the revelation was complete, the Prophet said:


[size=20pt]وَيَسْـَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّى[/size]

(And they ask you concerning the Ruh (the spirit). Say: "The Ruh (the spirit) is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord...'') Surah 17:85



The people of dhirk i:e muslims who invokes Allah a lot (remembrance of God), they know some few things about RUH. Ruh is definitely not only Gabriel, the word is used variably in the Quran. Ruh, according to the people of dhikr, are inside of every human being apart from the two Angels on our shoulders. Only through the remembrance of Allah we can activate it. There is a lot more to this. I'd better leave this as it is. What is inappropriate is to say Jesus is God just because Allah breaths His ruh in him. Nowhere in the Bible Jesus claim to be God. Point is even if John 14 and 15 claim Holy Spirit to be sent later, this spirit already existed long before Jesus(p). And the "spirit" mentioned would be visible and his message would abide with mankind forever.


THE ANGEL JIBREEL IN THE QURÁN AND SUNNAH

https://foreverislamic./2012/09/21/the-angel-jibreel-in-the-quran-and-sunnah/

There is no doubt that this is a critical spiritual truth that must be explored. To learn more about this experience, we need to consult the scriptures of the Injil, which has much to say about this important matter. First, notice the wording in the following Injil selection, which is similar to what we found in Surat-ul Mujadila (58):22:


"I pray that out of his glorious riches He (Allah) may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being…."

—Injil, Ephesians 3:16

Refer to surah 17:85



If that is the case, why is nature of Jesus so complicated to many Christians?. If you conclude that because of underlined he must be God, then, i can easily mention some christians right here on NL to argue with you otherwise. I will sit behind and eat popcorn while i watch.

Quran is very clear:

"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs." Sura 004:171

Why is the verse ^ difficult for you to swallow?. Where did Jesus say he is God because he has the power to send holy spirit?. That's just your assumption

Scholar8200:
ALright , give us the details of the Injeel since you have been able to establish that the ones in the 4 gospels are stories.

AlMuflihah:
Abi oo...na so we see am...d gospel was revealed to jesus to preach and he told his disciples to preach it also... not that contrasting and contradictory book (bible) that they prech today gospel of paul...shior

AlMuflihah:
Who can be one's closest companions if not one's wife/wives, relatives And friends... go an do research ,i know u wunt do as U are too dull to understand...

The Angel of Revelation, Jibreel (Gabriel), who is recognized by all the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], came to him, and when he received revelation, there were unusual effects on him that indicated the intensity of the effort involved in receiving the Message of Allaah from Jibreel, upon whom be peace.
His Companions witnessed this when he received Revelation, and they believed that the revelation was something that came from an outside source and was beyond his control; it came to him from (Allaah), the Wise and Praiseworthy.

Allaah supported the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with physical miracles, with which he challenged his people. Among the most important of these were the splitting of the moon and the Night Journey to Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem). They were unable to match these miracles, and so they were a decisive, divine testimony to the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

[b]Allaah supported him with miracles and evidence for people of reason and understanding, the greatest of which was the Qur’aan. This was the greatest sign, which contains in its pages miracles of both style and content, which all of mankind cannot match or imitate, even if they gather together for that purpose. This is clear from the statements of the most eloquent of the Arabs, who were completely unable to match it. The Qur’aan was – and centuries later still is, praise be to Allaah – an eternal miracle as is evident in its brilliant style, its information about the Unseen, its fulfilment of the promises of Allaah, the superiority of its laws, and the fact that its rulings are appropriate for every time and place – in addition to the fact that it has such a moving impact on people’s hearts.

The Qur’aan refers to the signs and proofs surrounding the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which testify to his truthfulness. For example, he was free of sin and trivial spitefulness; he grew up illiterate in the Arabian Peninsula, and did not receive any religious knowledge from beyond its borders, nor did he spend time acquiring any religious knowledge. When he reached the age of forty, he brought divine knowledge that none of the earlier or later generations could produce. He also received special protection and care from Allaah, which kept him safe at times of crisis; if it were not for this protection he would most certainly have been doomed to destruction. None of this could have happened except to one who was truly sent from Allaah.

His coming was foretold in the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel), and some of the People of the Book saw that these prophecies applied in totality to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which led them to embrace Islam. There are still passages in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, in the versions that are accepted by the People of the Book, that clearly refer to the prophethood of muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam[/b]

Scholar8200:
Actually what I wanted to know was why, since Gabriel appeared to both as a man, why was he called with the generic name -angel- while for the other he was called with a special name and the definite article -The- was used meaning there was only one of his kind?

[Quran 2:87]

"And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed".

Moreover, can you give instances when Gabriel supported Jesus' Ministry?

Basic Grammar tells us the article - the - shows there is only one of that kind eg Jesus is the Messiah meaning we cannot have more than one! How do we relate this to Gabriel who is not the only angel?



Alright to the highlighted text.


Meaning the personality He was sending was neither Gabriel nor a man! Else, this is the implication:

1. Only God has the capacity to say,"I will send so and so" not from the Earth but from Heaven" Therefore if Jesus was referring to Mohammed (which of course He wasnt) then He is the Son of God and Essentially One with Him! NO prophet at any age EVER used that sentence of promising to send someone from Heaven! Highest they did eg Moses was to appoint a successor on earth!

2. If Jesus was referring to Mohammed, then Jesus is far more than a prophet! Whosoever is sent is answerable to Him that sent him! Note that Jesus said He will send such an One in His Name, just as He came in the Father's Name! Think on these!

NgeneUkwenu:
Even Though The CBN Official rate of the Naira( which caters for about 80% of the dollar Usage) against the dollar Still remained @ 199 Naira at the Close Business Yesterday, while the parallel Market (Black Market) trades at 385 Naira to a dollar...It is pertinent to state that we are suffering for the mismanagement and corruption of the yesteryears, engineered, watered and nurtured by Vision less Party that just left power.

For the Past 16 Years, they looted Our reserves:

For For past 16 years, they did not Save for the rainy day...

For the past 16 years, they did not diversify our Economy..

For the past 16 years, they never implemented any of their yearly ritualistic budgets to stimulate the economy..

For the past 16 years, they only shared our Foreign exchange and depleted our reserves...

Now this is result of their hard work....

In fact , it is still a miracle, that The Present Government is still meeting it's financial Obligations in the face of all these crunches...

AlMuflihah:
Who can be one's closest companions if not one's wife/wives, relatives And friends... go an do research ,i know u wunt do as U are too dull to understand...

The Angel of Revelation, Jibreel (Gabriel), who is recognized by all the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], came to him, and when he received revelation, there were unusual effects on him that indicated the intensity of the effort involved in receiving the Message of Allaah from Jibreel, upon whom be peace.
His Companions witnessed this when he received Revelation, and they believed that the revelation was something that came from an outside source and was beyond his control; it came to him from (Allaah), the Wise and Praiseworthy.

Allaah supported the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with physical miracles, with which he challenged his people. Among the most important of these were the splitting of the moon and the Night Journey to Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem). They were unable to match these miracles, and so they were a decisive, divine testimony to the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Allaah supported him with miracles and evidence for people of reason and understanding, the greatest of which was the Qur’aan. This was the greatest sign, which contains in its pages miracles of both style and content, which all of mankind cannot match or imitate, even if they gather together for that purpose. This is clear from the statements of the most eloquent of the Arabs, who were completely unable to match it. The Qur’aan was – and centuries later still is, praise be to Allaah – an eternal miracle as is evident in its brilliant style, its information about the Unseen, its fulfilment of the promises of Allaah, the superiority of its laws, and the fact that its rulings are appropriate for every time and place – in addition to the fact that it has such a moving impact on people’s hearts.

The Qur’aan refers to the signs and proofs surrounding the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which testify to his truthfulness. For example, he was free of sin and trivial spitefulness; he grew up illiterate in the Arabian Peninsula, and did not receive any religious knowledge from beyond its borders, nor did he spend time acquiring any religious knowledge. When he reached the age of forty, he brought divine knowledge that none of the earlier or later generations could produce. He also received special protection and care from Allaah, which kept him safe at times of crisis; if it were not for this protection he would most certainly have been doomed to destruction. None of this could have happened except to one who was truly sent from Allaah.

His coming was foretold in the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel), and some of the People of the Book saw that these prophecies applied in totality to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which led them to embrace Islam. There are still passages in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, in the versions that are accepted by the People of the Book, that clearly refer to the prophethood of muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam

Empiree:
Listen, let me do a little breakdown. When it comes to specific tasks, Quran either mentions specific name of the Angel or prophet. It also uses general term like messenger for Angel Gabriel. It depends on the wordings. For instance,

"....then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. — Quran, sura 19 (Maryam), ayat 17

If we want further research, we look into tafsir(explanation) to see which Angel God is talking about. And that is Gabriel talking about in this verse



Similarly, angels also came to ʾIbrāhīm (Abraham) in human form, and he was not aware that they were angels until they told him so. Lūṭ (Lot) also had angels come to him to warn him of the impending doom of his people. All angels praise and glorify God and they never become tired of doing this.

They celebrate His praises night and day, nor do they ever flag or intermit. — Quran, sura 21 (Al-Anbiya), ayah 20


Also mentioned them by general terms in this verse.

"O ye who believe! save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who flinch not (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allah, but do (precisely) what they are commanded.

— Quran, sura 66 (At-Tahrim), ayah


Here they are called messangers. The Quran also mentions that angels have qualities that may be typified by the word wings:


"Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs):...

— Quran, sura 35 (Fatir) ayah

The preceding sentence does not imply that all angels have two to four wings. Most notably, archangels (namely Gabriel and Michael) are described as having thousands of wings.


According to hadith collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Muhammad said that Gabriel possessed 600 wings;

Narrated Abu Ishaq-Ash-Shaibani:

I asked Zir bin Hubaish regarding the Statement of Allah: "And was at a distance Of but two bow-lengths Or (even) nearer; So did (Allah) convey The Inspiration to His slave (Gabriel) and then he (Gabriel) Conveyed (that to Muhammad). (53.9-10)[13] On that, Zir said, "Ibn Mas'ud informed us that the Prophet had seen Gabriel having 600 wings."


Does this sound like "angel" that dwells in you as Christians believe?. What I am trying to tell you is that Allah mentions Angel directly and indirectly in the Quran. For instance,

Gabriel (Jibreel) and Michael (Meekaal) are mentioned early on the Quran in sura Al-Baqarah:


"Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,- Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith. — Quran, sura 2 (Al-Baqara) ayat 97-98


Another angel, Maalik is defined in the Quran as a being who is the warden of Hell. However Maalik is not an evil angel, nor a fallen one, a notion Islam rejects, rather Maalik is merely doing what he is commanded to do by God.


"They will cry: "O Malik! would that thy Lord put an end to us!" He will say, "Nay, but ye shall abide!" — Quran, sura 43 (Az-Zukhruf ) ayah 77

promisechuks:
Please, ignore your ignorance and answer my question.

How does eating pork defile people?

Your brother that are disturbing the whole world now, is it an unclean things they ate that made them to be terrorists?

Man's corrupt conscience is not as a result of eating unclean things but because of what they think.

What I am saying here is logical.

vzkpswaqnkhgytd:
Quran is the final word. I stand behind every word. Quran is uncorrupted, free of any crookedness.

Scholar8200:
Well, the Law was given to Israel, notice that the Gentiles (who made no distinctions between meats) then were to be admitted to Israel's passover only if they yielded to circumcision nothing was said about meats to them. Even in Acts 15:28,29, only a minimal part was, through the Holy Spirit's leading handed to them. The goal of the NT is reconciliation to God and holiness of heart and life, not proselytizing of Gentiles to Jewish practices.

vzkpswaqnkhgytd:
This is why the final Testament, the Quran was revealed. Makes everything clear and simple to keep us on the straight path.

Scholar8200:
When a command in the OT was moral, the judgement for disobedience was either death, being cut off, and was described as an abomination to God! Now was this said about pork?
Pray were Pigs in Eden? How come God made morally unclean animals? Were Pigs is Noah's ark? Why didnt God seize that opportunity to wipe out the unclean animal? Summary? They were ceremonially tagged not as though they were intrinsically unclean.
Besides, Jesus clearly and openly declared that meats do not defile! Rather it is the sins that come out of a sinful heart! Mark 7:18-23
Pls let's not discuss this any further till you have read that reference.

Scholar8200:
by this question i see that you did not read my replies!

here is the problem! These quotes do not give any judgement or retribution! Why? They are purely ceremonial not moral! These ceremonial laws are not carried into the NT. But the moral laws with higher demands are found in the NT! Why? because grace is available to enable us do them!

Glad you asked!
The Seed of Abraham, the One through Whom the New covenant was to be sealed (He Himself said so) was to be He through Whom all the nations of the World (not only Abraham's biological descendants) would be blessed!
Psalm 22 was a prophecy of David on the death of Christ and it ends by showing that the Gentiles will be brought into this covenant in keeping with God's promise to Abraham
Psalm 22:27
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord and all kindreds of the world shall worship before thee same Psalm 72:11,
Psalm 98:3
Isaiah speaking of the renewal sealed it up thus:
...It is a light thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob(Israel)...I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be my salvation to the ends of the Earth
Note the repetition of the ends of the earth, all the world etc in keeping to God's promise to Abraham.
there are many prophecies on the New Covenant and the benefits therein and the fact that the Gentiles are to be included!
In summary, the New Covenant is the Gospel!Jesus alluded to that in Matthew 26:28, Luke 24:44-47.


That is why when He came and some did not receive Him, as many as received Him were given the adoption!


The OT was sealed only when Israel indicated there commitment thereto Exodus 24:7,8 (note the role of the blood)! The NT is enforced only in those Who receive Him ie believe on His Name (not as a mere prophet)
Hence we have Christians who are jews and hristians who are gentiles. Any who truly believes is brought in and we become one in Christ!
So it did does not drop on Isreal by force, commitment of faith must be expressed!

Jeremiah was not the only one who prophesied such! Ezekiel did, Isaiah did etc In fact, Malachi called Jesus Lord and the Messenger of the Covenant:
Malachi 3:1
... And the Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come...even the messenger of the Covenant...

Hence any claims should agree with all the prophecies!

I see. Jesus said My kingdom is not of this world. Hence we Christians cannot form a parallel govt with laws to punish societal offenders! That is why we have the govt in place.


Well, there is a separation of state from faith. Besides, no true believer will go to steal! If he does, either he has fallen or was never in: The detailed communal laws in the OT was so because a nation was just being born and God wanted it to be Theocratic! Now gentiles who believe are not called to try to make not their communities Theocratic, but their own lives and thus they have a positive influence.

promisechuks:
See urself!

They are deceiving u!

So, it is because of pork meat or unclean things that people eat that makes them to be terrorists, rapists and hardened criminals?

I want to understand you more.

promisechuks:

Empiree:
So you clear about pig meat or pork now or still believe it is edible?. What do you think of ur NT now?
Man please don't be deceived!

What enters a man's mouth can NEVER defile the person, making him a sinner.

Is it because people eat unclean things, that's what can make them lie, fornicate, be a paedophile and commit many atrocities? NO!!!

But as a man thinks, so is he.

We are not corrupt because we eat unclean things like pork, but because of what we think and bear in our heart and mind.

It is not the pork meat a man eats that urges him to bomb and kill innocent people but his wicked thinking.

Knowing this will let you know that, eating uncleans that you are comfortable with can't make you unclean.

Empiree:
It looks like you are about to get it twisted. I can sense that. Before you rip me off, let me quickly post arabic word used in the verse bcus oni bara e n bole bo


16:102

قُلۡ نَزَّلَهٗ [size=20pt]رُوۡحُ[/size] الۡقُدُسِ مِنۡ رَّبِّكَ بِالۡحَـقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذِيۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا وَهُدًى وَّبُشۡرٰى لِلۡمُسۡلِمِيۡنَ

@bolded is "Ruh" which means 'pure spirit' is referred to Angel Gabriel in most cases throughout Quran



You can check other translations of the same verse. Ruh refers to Angel Gabriel.


Asad: Say: "Holy inspiration has brought it down from thy Sustainer by stages, setting forth the truth, so that it might give firmness unto those who have attained to faith, and provide guidance and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God."



Malik: Say, "The Holy Spirit (Gabriel) has brought it down piecemeal intact from your Rabb to strengthen the faith of the believers, and to give guidance and good news to the Muslims."



Pickthall: Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).



Yusuf Ali: Say the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth in order to strengthen those who believe and as a guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

‏

Scholar8200:
1. Concerning pork, kindly quote here the OT passage that forbids it and the repercussion for those who eat.

2. Jeremiah 31:31-33 distinctly prophesies a New Covenant that involves transformation inside out. Thus the Old was to give way for the New.

3. Before you condemn a sinner, examine your heart! For example before we amputate the hand of the thief, are we not guilty of covetousness in the heart and the NT ranks us as the same? We dont continue in either after we receive Grace thru Jesus though.

4. My phone cannot run a video but that quote you drew therefrom, ...
When the rich young ruler camme to Jesus and Jesus told Him to keep the commandments, remember that the ruler said he had been doing that already yet there was a lack, a void that Jesus pointed out, though indirectly, that only Him as Lord could fill. The Law was still in force, Jesus had not died then, however, the ruler had got to the point where the limitations of the law shone forth.
Why did Jesus not rebuke him when he said he had been keeping the commandments but still felt a lack? The Law had it's limits God purposed it that way. The dispensation of the NT through Christ that was prophesied by Jeremiah, Ezekiel etc was to take care of those limitations but all at God's time.

And Jesus pointed him to a life of surrendering to, and following after Jesus

In case the video dealt with another portion apart from this, kindly vouchsafe some excerpts.

Empiree:
What is covenant?. Remember we talked about this in the other thread but you gave up?.

Remember we talked about this as well in the other thread but you gave up?. Yes, they were instructed to obey and fulfill the Law but they always rebelled with their prophets

[Quran 2:87]

"And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed".




@underlined, is there annything like true Gospel?.....which of the Gospel are you referring to, pls?


@bolded, Quran has this to say

2:97

'Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - it is [none but] he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart, [O Muhammad], by permission of Allah , confirming that which was before it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."
hmmm impressive.. enemy of gabriel brought the koran down upon your heart


16:102

Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."


Again, what is Covenant?. Does it change the old Laws?

Scholar8200:
And HE also affirmed that there is going to be a New Covenant just as Ezekiel 36,Jeremiah31 prophesied. Now since two Covenants cannot run concurrently, the Old had to give place for the New and that is Why He clearly said He came to FULFIL the Old. Hence the Old has come to Pass (like prophesies do), based on the fact that He fulfilled it!!! By the way He did not say, " I Have come to OBEY the Law, why did He use the Word FULFIL?

Did Moses ever tell the Israelites to Fulfil the Law? THe word then was obey, observe, do etc Why did Moses not tell them FULFIL?
But since the WOrd of God can NEVER be set aside Christ came to FULFIL the Law thus making way for the dispensation of the NT which He also corroborated!



Interesting! Now the writers of the true Gospels etc were inspired by the Spirit of God. (before you throw stones, muslims also claim that the Quran came through an angel to a man and up till that time I doubt if the concept of angels meeting men like was done to Muhammed, was popular among the Arabs, unlike the Spirit Whose Influence fills the OT!)

Blossom023:
People who make the news do not read the news.

Rilwayne001:
Question and Answer part of this debate is dayummmn


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXIBBCcJfRc

Rilwayne001:
Question and Answer part of this debate is dayummmn


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXIBBCcJfRc

Empiree:
[size=15pt]Smackdown![/size]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOhc9EjQKM

Anis Shorrosh is really full of manipulations

Empiree:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwPrN3hQ8iE
http://wn.com/evangelist_anis_shorrosh_arrested

Empiree:
Malvisguy2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGpDusvtUJo

Empiree:
I really intend to write more details on Paul being 'founder' of Christianity. There are obvious references contained in the Bible in this regard. I just hope I can have time and not being lazy to do that. In Hebrew 6:1 Paul said:

"Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,"

It appears that Paul deliberately drifted from original teachings of Jesus(AS) because of the evil done by the Jews who supposedly killed him. Paul said in subsequent verses (2 &3) that he moved away from Jesus doctrines like ablution, Salat and other doctrines(etc) laid down by Jesus(AS)

Verses 4-6
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance."

Statement of Paul here seems to imply that, for instance, modern Muslims should abandon obligatory duties laid down by prophet Muhammad(SAW) because of faults committed by some Muslims earlier. That is how it sounds to me. Correct me if I am wrong.

RapLawd:
yes... 99 percent of Muhammad's message ain't actually originated from him...he copied from other books of other prophets and other religions without proper sorting and arrangements... if not, tell me how come Koran ain't in other... some prophecy or words from Allah missed road while coming to the receiver, so that some of the later meant to be became the first... do you know that yes nothing special about him except the renovation of Kaaba and the evolution in the worship of Allah that's already is being worshipped by Arabs?


there ain't a single prophecy by your prophet that wasn't already made by order prophet except for the ones the he cooked up to suit his life style...

Empiree:
[size=20pt]Does Christianity have a Future?[/size]
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/12/does-christianity-have-a-future.html