Empiree: Brother, please be reasonable here. These are researches done by me and others. Most of what I said are truth or almost because evidences abound. But those christian fellas clearly quote from anti-Islam places, bogus ahadith and misquoted Quran itself etc. And they even provided webites they got them from. And in most cases we refute them.
But christianity is not the case. I dont really have particular website(s). I just research online and offline.
Is like a christian says muslims have more than one arabic version of Quran. In order for us to refute the person, all we have to say is please provide evidence (by bringing two different Quran that contradict forward). If he cant his case will be dismissed. This is not the case with Bible. We can easily provide different versions of Bible/Gospel contradicting themselves or within themselves.
You can't deny existence Gospel of Barnabas. I will be suprised if you dont know. This is not bigotry. This is educating ourselves. Onus is on you to study these things. It's not about attacking your religion or quoting anti-christian websites. We talking about salvation here. This is not a joke. As you can see, you performed poorly defending message of Jesus.Bro..please ........................THINK
shahydbinaliyu: Gospel of Barnabas can't be 100% correct.. Human being wrote it...so many people even contradict themselves in their notes.. Maybe handouts or educational materials.. What human wrote can never be perfect talkless of writing many volumes... it's the fact we need in what he wrote.. The corespondense..
if you study judaism. You will see it's simply raw islam... Islam was perfected during Prophet Muhammad era..
I see no reason for them not to join Islam..
Hope you understand me bro
and the first mosshlemi was killed by a judaisic woman... how ironic that judaism is old islam and islam is new judaism..
Empiree: Yes, Barnabas was the alleged "blind disciple" of Jesus. Believe me, other Gospes they have today are in conflict with Gospel of Barnabas in some ways. It is defintely not 100% correct. His Gospel says Jesus is not God, not son of God. Thats why Paul who did not even meet Jesus changed his message which christians follow today. They consider Barnabas nonsense. Barnabas was the real eyewitness. He dwelt with Jesus the son of Mary. If Christians accept his teachings, they woud leave christianity.....for good
I was postng Gospel of Barnabas here before I stopped. You may want to check previous pages about prophet Muhammad (SAW). He recorded it very good. I think I was to resume posting his Gospel now. I have it stored in my library. And Barnabas Gospel also contrdicts itself too. I saw that.
There is also Gospel of Judas. To be honest with you I dont know much about that one. I only read few pages.
Empiree: Yea, I studied Gospel of Barnabas some yrs back. Very interesting. It's really contrary to other Gospels in some ways. It has some similarities with Quran. However mainstream christianity consider him heathen
Pls stop your deceitful style. You and another of your brethren have this style of purposely quoting someone in a way that they can't quote you back in return.
Sir, all you have done is copy and paste things that even you do not understand. Paul's teachings are not complex and do not require lengthy essays.
If you ask a christian to summarize christianity, he or she will say;
-Love your neighbour -Turn the other cheek -No one goes through to the father without Christ -do unto others
The points above are Jesus's teachings and not Paul's.
Go home and accept the truth.
Dont know how this is deceitful. Obviously, you have no counterclaim. I have no problem with "Love You Neighbour", Turn Other Cheek".
The important one however according to you, "No One Goes Through To The Father Without Christ". That's very true if put in it proper context. We say the same thing too. There is no way anyone can make it to paradise without faith in prophet Muhammad(Allah's blessings be upon him and his household).
So your number 3 is true but it refers to those people he was sent. He was not sent to allnaijablogger. He was sent to lost sheep of Israel. There are references from your Bible that Jesus' mission was only to the Children of Israel. Not to Nigerians and definitely not the whole world. So people in the world today must accept Muhammad as the last and final messanger to go through to God. since his message is universal..
Empiree: [quote author=AllNaijaBlogger post=32394828]I see that you are using dubious techniques to argue. I asked you to summarize why or how Paul created Christianity and yet again, you copy and paste long-winded nonsense from anti-christian sites and then your "supporting muslim" brother cheers you on. See, there is no easy way to summarize this. This is a complex issue. However, the only easy way to do that is by simply quoting one or two verses from your Bible. But I chose to go the other way. Besides, copy paste or not doesnt bother me. I do research everyday and store them in my library for cross reference later. It is easy for me to copy from there and place it here.
Besides, I already posted many things to this effect in previous pages. Seems you dont care to look. That's why i felt reluctant to do it here again. Rilwayne001 reminded you and others to respond to it but you guys ignored.
You then throw all manners of irrelevant statements to confuse and deceive. If there were many people referred to as "Jesus" does that change the fact that there was an original who was from God? Even your Islamic religion claims that there was an original who wasn't crucified. Do you know how implicating @bold is to those who claim Jesus is God?. You perfectly demonstrated that Jesus is separate from God unlike other Christians. This is another flaw we've been talking about
Had you even read what you copied and pasted, you would realise that Paul expatiated on many things Jesus had already taught. Meaning that Paul was an early christian. Paul didnt create christanity, he was one of the writers who helped to codify the message of Christ. Absolutely I read it. I took out what is beneficial to this subject. I have bunch of them in my library right now. If you want more i can provide more. But your heart can't take the pressure. Paul did not meet Jesus. The only way you can demonstrate to me that Paul didnt create christianity is by proving to me a direct statement or speech of Jesus sanctioning christianity, called his follower christians, said he established christianity. Thats the only way. You can't just talk.
Let me give you example what i am talking about from Quran. Quran clearly says that Allah created Islam (direct speech of God). Sura Maidah 3
"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion."
Imran 19
"Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam."
Imran 85 "And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."
Here, Quran says Allah (God) named us Muslims
Imran 84 Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
Haj 78 "And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you "Muslims" before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah . He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper."
And many other places in the Quran. My question is do you have straight forward statement like this to prove that Jesus established Christianity or ever mentioned christian?. I dont want to hear "Christlike". That terminology was adopted after him
If you have read the bible. you would have realised that Paul's teachings do not even reach up to a quarter of what churches and christians preach in their everyday lives. Clarify @ bold please.
I told you to summarize what Paul is about and yet you dodge and then copy-and-paste nonsense. What a shame. Shame. No. The only way, like i said, to prove me otherwise is by quoting Jesus establishing Christianity, called his followers Christians, said he's God and to be worshiped. Very simple. But if you refer to Paul, you proved me right. Copy paste allegation here doesnt help you....at all.
[quote author=malvisguy212 post=32399818]don't wast your time on him, I created a thread "did Paul invent Christianity?" https://www.nairaland.com/1981918/did-paul-invent-christianity non of them where able to give a reasonable reply. The atheists and muslims were just posting trash. Not aware of this. I will check it out later. Probably something i have seen before that some guys wrote. I read similar article like that before.
I see that you are using dubious techniques to argue. I asked you to summarize why or how Paul created Christianity and yet again, you copy and paste long-winded nonsense from anti-christian sites and then your "supporting muslim" brother cheers you on.
You then throw all manners of irrelevant statements to confuse and deceive. If there were many people referred to as "Jesus" does that change the fact that there was an original who was from God? Even your Islamic religion claims that there was an original who wasn't crucified.
Had you even read what you copied and pasted, you would realise that Paul expatiated on many things Jesus had already taught. Meaning that Paul was an early christian. Paul didnt create christanity, he was one of the writers who helped to codify the message of Christ.
If you have read the bible. you would have realised that Paul's teachings do not even reach up to a quarter of what churches and christians preach in their everyday lives.
I told you to summarize what Paul is about and yet you dodge and then copy-and-paste nonsense. What a shame.
malvisguy212: Continue... Bishr died because he trusted Muhammad. Muhammad died, too. His pain and sickness just lasted much longer. In Sunan Abu Dawud, Muhammad even described his pain to Bishr's mother. Sunan Abu Dawud 4449 Umm Bishr said to the Prophet during the sickness of which he died, "What do you think about your illness, Apostle of Allah? I do not think about the illness of my son except the poisoned sheep of which he had eaten with you at Khaibar." The Prophet said, "And I do not think about my illness except that. This is the time when it cut off my aorta." There's that aorta again. At-Tabari, p. 124 The Messenger of God said during the illness from which he died—the mother of Bishr b. al-Bara had come in to visit him—"Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar." Okay, Muhammad, we get the point about the severed aorta. According to Aisha, Muhammad was in total agony before his death. Sunan ibn Majah 1622 Aishah said, "I never saw anyone suffer more pain than the Messenger of Allah" In the end, Muhammad couldn't even walk on his own. His followers had to drag him around. Sahih al-Bukhari 2588 Aisha said, "When the Prophet became sick and his condition became serious, he requested his wives to allow him to be treated in my house, and they allowed him. He came out leaning on two men while his feet were dragging on the ground." Now, since the Qur'an says that if Muhammad were a false prophet, Allah would sever his aorta; and Muhammad eventually admitted that he could feel his aorta being severed. You might think we have a pretty good reason to reject Muhammad and his religion, but you're wrong. If you look more closely, you'll see that we have at least ten good reasons to reject Muhammad here. First, think about Muhammad's argument in the Qur'an. "If I'm a false prophet Allah will cut my aorta!" People who make silly claims like this usually aren't prophets. "I am a prophet! If I'm not, may God strike me with lightning....Ah, no lightning! This proves I'm a prophet." When someone uses that kind of reasoning, chances are, he's a false prophet, but that's exactly how Muhammad argues in Surah 69. (Video clip: "So logically..." "If she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood!" Second, even though these God-will- strike-me-down claims are usually enough to spot a false prophet, I believe that God sometimes makes things even more clear and obvious for us. If someone's running around saying, "I'm a prophet! God didn't strike me down," God might ignore him, but in some cases, God might decide to thoroughly disgrace and humiliate him. And if any false prophet in history was a candidate for divine judgment, it was Muhammad. Now, Surah 69 was a Meccan surah, meaning that Muhammad was reciting this to his followers for years. He spent years telling his companions, "If I'm a false prophet, God's going to sever my aorta!" My friends, there are thousands of ways to die. Do you really think that it's a coincidence that Muhammad died in exactly the way the Qur'an said he would die if he's a deceiver and a false prophet? Looks like divine judgment to me. Third, I don't wanna call Muhammad "stupid" because that wouldn't be politically correct, but let's think about this for a moment. Muhammad and his followers attack Khaibar. After the Muslims kill a bunch of men and rape a bunch of women—standard practice for Muslims back then—a Jewish woman comes up to Muhammad. Muslims had slaughtered her family, and she offers to cook dinner for Muhammad and his band of merry men. Muhammad accepts her offer. "Sure, I love lamb. So nice of you to cook dinner for us after we butchered your father and your husband." Look, if Muhammad doesn't have enough common sense to realize he probably shouldn't eat that lamb, why should we trust anything the comes out of his mouth? If a woman comes up to you and says, "Hi, you slaughtered my family! Care for a delicious meal?" And the only response you can think of is (Video clip: "Duh! Yeah, I think so.) Sorry. You're not a real prophet. Fourth, despite the fact that Muslims had slaughtered her family, the Jewish woman, Zaynab, was actually open to the possibility that Muhammad was a prophet. She gave him the poison as a test. If you were a true prophet, you wouldn't eat it. If you were a false prophet, you'd die. Since Muhammad died from the poisoning, he failed Zaynab's test. Fifth, Muhammad's companion, Bishr, who'd tasted the poison as soon as he put the lamb in his mouth. Why did he keep eating? He kept eating, because he believed in Muhammad. "There's no way this lamb is poisoned. Muhammad is eating it. He's the prophet!" Bishr's faith in Muhammad got him killed; and I'm willing to lay this down as a rule: If I can't trust you with my dinner, I definitely can't trust you with my salvation. If you can't figure out what's waiting for you in food, how could you possibly know what's waiting for you in the afterlife? (Video clip: "Ignorance is bliss." Sixth, when Zaynab told Muhammad that she had poisoned him, Muhammad said that Allah would never allow it! But Allah did allow it. So if Muhammad was wrong about Allah then, please explain to me why I should trust him when he tells me other things about Allah. Seventh, Muhammad claimed that the lamb he was eating spoke to him and told him that it was poisoned. So he got a special revelation, because he was a prophet. Two questions: (1) Why didn't the roasted lamb say something five minutes earlier, which would've saved Muhammad's life (not to mention Bishr's life) and (2) Why did Muhammad need a revelation when you could taste the poison? Isn't this proof that Muhammad was actually making up revelations? Isn't it obvious that he tasted the poison, same as Bishr, but instead of saying, "Hey, I taste poison." He said, "It's speaking to me! I'm a prophet!" Sounds like a fake to me. Eighth, think about the justice here. The justice is just a little too poetic. This can't be a coincidence. Muhammad did more than anyone else in history to provoke hatred against Jews. Muhammad did more than anyone else in history to oppress women. Muhammad told his followers that women are stupid. And then, Muhammad died a miserable, humiliating, wretched death after being outwitted by a JEWISH WOMAN. So God didn't merely disgrace Muhammad by severing his aorta, thereby identifying him as a false prophet. God added to Muhammad's degradation by severing his aorta through the hands of a Jewish woman seeking vengeance against the man who had brought her community nothing but death and rape. (Video clip: "Fair is fair! We didn't start this. We didn't mean it to happen, but we're not giving up 'til you pay. Fair is fair!" Ninth, according to the Qur'an, when the Jews tried to kill Jesus, Allah intervened and rescued Him. This is Surah 4:157-58. Allah took Jesus safely to Paradise. He wouldn't give anyone the victory over Jesus. But when a group of Jews wanted to kill Muhammad, what happened? Allah sits back and watches as a woman poisons his prophet, and he does nothing as his prophet dies a humiliating death. Why does Allah protect Jesus from harm—zips Him straight to Paradise—then when he turns around and sees Muhammad wallowing in freakish misery, Allah doesn't lift a finger to help him. Sounds like Allah was showing a little favoritism. Don't mess with Jesus! Allah won't let you, but go ahead and feed Muhammad some rat poison and Allah doesn't care. Finally, Muhammad's greatest wish was to die in battle. Sahih al-Bukhari 2797 The Prophet said, ..."By Him in Whose Hands my soul is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then come back to life and then get martyred, and then come back to life again and then get martyred and then come back to life again and then get martyred." If you read the Muslim sources, you know that every time Muhammad wants something, Allah gives him a special revelation granting him what he desires. Muhammad wants to have sex with Aisha, Allah gives him a revelation. Muhammad wants more than four wives, Allah gives him a revelation. Muhammad wants to marry the divorced wife of his own adopted son, Allah gives him a revelation. Allah's got nothing to do but sit around all day making Muhammad's dreams come true. (Video clip: "Well, I read about genies but I never thought they really... It's like something out of the Arabian nights." Muhammad's ultimate wish was to die in battle. It was his greatest desire. But instead of letting Muhammad die while fighting the Jews, Allah let's him die a disgraceful death, in utter agony at the hands of a Jewish woman. Death by leg of lamb. After spending more than two decades granting Muhammad anything he wanted, Allah suddenly decides not to give Muhammad what he wanted most. It seems Allah had a change of heart. Putting all this together, we found at least ten reasons to reject Islam just by examining Muhammad's death. If we look at how he lived, of course, we have another trillion or so reasons to conclude that he's a false prophet. What I find most interesting, though, is that Muslims will be upset with me for making this video. They'll complain about the movie clips I used. They'll complain about the things I've said. "David, how dare you put up a Weekend at Bernie's clip to illustrate what we read in Bukhari." But let me be perfectly clear, nothing I've said about Muhammad comes anywhere near what God said about Muhammad. I'll go a step further, If you take everything that people have ever said or done to insult Muhammad—Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses, the Danish cartoons, people burning the Qur'an—if you take everything critical of Muhammad and roll it up into one big ball, that's nothing compared to the way that God insulted and condemned Muhammad. There's no comparison between some guy drawing a picture of Muhammad and God severing his aorta to humiliate him. God is the ultimate critic of Muhammad. So, what are you going to do, my Muslim friends? Are you going to run around calling God an Islamophobic bigot because He insulted Muhammad? Or are you going to accept correction from the Almighty? Islam means "submission". Muslims think it refers to submission to God—but God has already given His answer. He commands you to reject Muhammad. If you continue believing in Muhammad, what you're really saying is, "God can't make me stop believing in Muhammad. I don't care what God says. I believe in Muhammad anyway." But in that case, Islam isn't submission to God. It's submission to Muhammad. If you care more about Muhammad than you care about God, you, guys, are living in Shirk Central. David: That's right. I SOLVED the cold case, so put that in your file. (listens) David: No, I just wanna hear you to say it: "Colombo, ain't got nothin' on me!"
Ninth, according to the Qur'an, when the Jews tried to kill Jesus, Allah intervened and rescued Him. This is Surah 4:157-58. Allah took Jesus safely to Paradise. He wouldn't give anyone the victory over Jesus. But when a group of Jews wanted to kill Muhammad, what happened? Allah sits back and watches as a woman poisons his prophet, and he does nothing as his prophet dies a humiliating death. Why does Allah protect Jesus from harm—zips Him straight to Paradise—then when he turns around and sees Muhammad wallowing in freakish misery, Allah doesn't lift a finger to help him. Sounds like Allah was showing a little favoritism. Don't mess with Jesus! Allah won't let you, but go ahead and feed Muhammad some rat poison and Allah doesn't care. boh bohahah bohaaa Finally, Muhammad's greatest wish was to die in battle.
malvisguy212: http://frolickyfingers..de/2011/11/transcript-who-killed-muhammad-by-david.html?m=1 Eighth, think about the justice here. The justice is just a little too poetic. This can't be a coincidence. Muhammad did more than anyone else in history to provoke hatred against Jews. Muhammad did more than anyone else in history to oppress women. Muhammad told his followers that women are silly. And then, Muhammad died a miserable, humiliating, wretched death after being outwitted by a JEWISH WOMAN.
hmm could it be one of the reason the arabs/muslims hates jews like gobe
David: Hello? I'd like to report a murder. (listens) David: His name? Muhammad. Muhammad ibn Abdullah. (listens) David: I think he was poisoned. (listens) David: No, he's the prophet of Islam. (listens) David: Well, it was almost 14 centuries ago, but don't you, guys, have a cold case file or something? (listens) David: Not for that long ago! Don't you know how important this case is?! I've got Sunnis telling me a Jewish woman poisoned him. I've got Shias telling me Aisha poisoned him, and I wanna know who killed.. Hello? (snorts) She hung up. I guess I'll have to solve this one myself —through a careful investigation of the Muslim sources. By the way, to all my Muslim friends out there who didn't bother to read your most trusted sources, may I say in advance: Mua ha ha. Okay, I've been through the Qur'an, the hadith, and the sira literature, and I think I've solved the mystery of Muhammad's death. It's actually pretty straightforward. The Muslim sources tell us that Muhammad was poisoned. All we have to do is take everything we know about how Muhammad was killed, and ask ourselves who would've killed him in that particular way. Police do this sort of thing everyday. They match up a bullet with the gun that fired the bullet. They match up fingerprints with the finger [of the person] who left the fingerprints. They match up details of a crime with the criminal who has a certain M.O. So to figure out who killed Muhammad, we just need to do a little profiling. (Video clip: Accused: But the fact remains you can't prove that I did it. It could've been anybody! Colombo: It can only be you—by your own admission!) The main difficulty we face is that lots of people wanted to kill Muhammad. The pagans wanted to kill him for conquering their cities, smashing their idols, slaughtering their men , raping their women, and enslaving their children. Jews wanted to kill them for seizing their land, destroying their communities, slaughtering their men , raping their women, and enslaving their children. Christians wanted to kill him for threatening to conquer them. Men wanted to kill him. Women wanted to kill him. Old people wanted to kill him. Young people wanted to kill him. Muhammad made a LOT of enemies. (Video clip: "What's the matter Rodney?" "Ohhh, I don't get any respect at all." Fortunately, we can narrow down our list of suspects by ruling out people who would've killed Muhammad in some way OTHER than poisoning. Certain killers like to strangle their victims; they're not going to use poison. Some people prefer knives. Some people set fires. Some people push their victims off cliffs. Colonel Mustard wouldn't poison anybody. He used a lead pipe in The Ballroom. Interestingly, the Qur'an tells us how Allah would've killed Muhammad. We find Allah's M.O., his preferred method of executing prophets, in Surah 69:44 through 46. According to the Qur'an, if Muhammad were to invent a false revelation, if he were to make up verses of the Qur'an, Allah would kill him by severing his aorta. (The aorta is the large artery that comes out of the left ventricle of your heart. Some Muslim sources call it the "life artery".) Let's look at different translations of verses 44 to 46 along with a commentary, so we can get a clear idea of what the passage is saying. The Hilali- Khan translation reads: Qur'an 69:44-46 And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (aorta). [Hilali-Khan] And in parenthesis, the translators add, "aorta". The Pickthal translation declares: Qur-an 69:44-46 And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us, We assuredly had taken him by the right hand and then severed his life-artery. [Pickthall] Dawood's translation reads: Qur-an 69:44-46 Had he invented lies concerning Us, We would have seized him by the right hand and severed his heart's vein. [Dawood] ibn Shakir renders these verses: Qur-an 69:44-46 And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings, We would certainly have seized him by the right hand, then We would certainly have cut off his aorta. [Shakir] Just so we're clear on the meaning, and no one accuses me of misrepresenting the passage, let me read one of the greatest Muslim commentaries of these verses. This is Tafsir Jalalayn: Tafsir Jalalayn [on Qur-an 69:44-46] And had he, namely, the Prophet, fabricated any lies against Us, by communicating from Us that which We have not said, We would have assuredly seized him, We would have exacted vengeance [against him], as punishment, by the Right Hand, by [Our] strength and power; then We would have assuredly severed his life-artery, the aorta of the heart, a vein that connects with it, and which if severed results in that person's death. So if Muhammad had been a false prophet and a liar and a deceiver, we know how Allah would've killed him— Allah would've cut his aorta. As long as no one severs Muhammad's aorta then, we can rule out Allah as a suspect. (Video clip: "I didn't do it! Just because the blood was in my hand, doesn't mean I stabbed the man." Now that we've got our strategy, let's turn to our Muslim sources, so that we can put together our profile. According to Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and other text, Muhammad was poisoned by a Jewish woman. Sahih al-Bukhari 2617 A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." Anas added, "I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Messenger." People could see the effects of the poison in Muhammad's mouth. The poison apparently disfigured his palate, making his mouth look strange. Sahih Muslim 5430 A Jewess came to Allah's Messenger with poisoned mutton and he took of what had been brought to him. (When the effects of this poison were felt by him) he called for her and asked her about that, whereupon she said, "I had determined to kill you". Thereupon he said, " Allah will never give you the power to do it." Muhammad tells this woman, "Allah will never allow you to kill me!" I guess Muhammad didn't know Allah very well, because the poison ultimately did kill him. In case you're wondering why this woman wanted to poison Muhammad. She tells us in ibn Sa'd: ibn Sa'd, p. 252 The Apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab Bint al-Harith [that's the woman who poisoned him] and said to her, " What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, " You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle, and my husband, so I said to myself, 'If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said it: '"If you are a king, we will get rid of you."' The woman poisoned Muhammad, because he slaughtered her family. I guess Louis Farrakhan got something right. (Video clip: "But as a man soweth, the same shall he also reap. And that's why Jesus told Peter, 'Shield your sword, because those who live by the sword, will die by it.'" But there's a plot twist here, my friends. You see, Zaynab didn't act alone. She had a co-conspirator, someone working behind the scenes pulling the strings. Sahih al-Bukhari 4428 The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison." What's that Muhammad? Something about your aorta being cut? That's funny. I seem to recall someone telling us that if he were going to kill you for being a false prophet, he will do it by severing your aorta. But let's keep reading. Sunan Abu Dawud 4498 - A Jewess presented [Muhammad] at Khaibar a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Apostle of Allah ate of it and the people also ate. He then said, "Lift your hands (from eating), for it has informed me that it is poisoned. Bishr b. al-Bara b. Ma'rur al-Ansari died. So he (the Prophet) sent for the Jewess (and said to her), "What motivated you to do the work you have done?" She said, "If you were a prophet, it would not harm you; but if you were a king, I would rid the people of you." The Apostle of Allah then ordered regarding her and she was killed. He then said about the pain of which he died, "I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaibar. This is the time when it has cut off my aorta." "This is the time when it has cut off my aorta." Didn't someone tell us in the Qur'an that he would kill Muhammad by cutting his aorta? Notice the passage says that Muhammad's companion, Bishr, died from eating the poison. Interestingly, before Bishr died, he told Muhammad that as soon as he put the lamb in his mouth, he could taste the poison, but he ate it anyway because he saw Muhammad eating it. In ibn Sa'd we read: ibn Sa'd, pp. 252-253 The Apostle of Allah took the foreleg, a piece of which he put into his mouth. Bishr ibn al-Bara took another bone and put it into his mouth. When the Apostle of Allah ate one morsel of it, Bishr ate his and other people also ate from it. Then the Apostle of Allah said, "Hold back your hands! Because this foreleg has informed me that it is poisoned." Thereupon Bishr said, "By Him Who hath made you great! I discovered it from the morsel I took. Nothing prevented me from spitting it out but the idea that I did not like to make your food unrelishing. When you had eaten what was in your mouth, I did not like to save my life after yours, and I also thought you would not have eaten it if there was something wrong." Bishr did not rise from his seat but his color changed to that of taylsan (a green cloth) .To be continue.....
Empiree: It's funny how christian clerics, Bishops, popes and other hide this from their people. I first learned this from "ACADIP" in 2013 and decided to research on it. Ever wonder they never mentioned Barabar's first name (Jesus). I believe Barabar is the same Barnabas of a Gospel.
Question christians need to answer is whch Jesus is their saviour from the list?.
The article writtern by the christian makes it easy for me. I was preparing to put together a thread on it. I guess this is sufficient. So definitely there are more than one Jesus in the Bible.
plainbibletruth: There may have been a thousand people who went by the name ‘JESUS’ (i.e. its Hebrew or Greek equivalent) in the Bible. Even today some bear the name ‘Jesus’ in some parts of the world.
So I don’t think that is really the issue – in his humanity Christ had to bear a name.
The historical ‘Jesus’ that Christians believe in as the saviour is the ONE PERSON: 1. Whose birth was unique and supernatural. He was uniquely born. 2. Who performed supernatural miracles and therefore had a unique and supernatural life. 3. Who died on a Roman cross. [So if 2 people on the cross had the same name ‘Jesus’ it was the one of them who fitted into (1) & (2) above that Christians believe in]. This his death on the cross was for the forgiveness of our sins. 4. Who rose from the grave, conquered death and ascended into heaven. So, the end of his life was unique and supernatural. So there is NO GRAVE where you can worship his dead bones today.
There was a single person that fit into ALL of the above, not just one of them or few of them. That is the ‘Jesus’ Christians believe on as their saviour.
Even the Quran ATTESTS to all these even though many Muslims refuse to BELIEVE in what their Quran point them to.
It is the ONLY person who ever lived and had ALL those uniqueness that Christians believe in – Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Jesus is said to be the son of god and the messiah because he’s a descendant of King David, because the messiah will be a descendent of King David. John 7:41 “Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?”
So Matthew was written to show that Jesus is a descendant of King David. Matthew 1:1 “the book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham”
But in Luke, Jesus implies he’s not descendant of King David, Luke 20:41 “And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David’s son? 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. 20:44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?”
I think that pretty much puts the nail in the coffin. Jesus is not a descendant of King David and therefore can’t be the messiah.
John the Baptist
Here’s another contradiction that show that Jesus is not the messiah. John the Baptist baptizes Jesus and witnesses miraculous phenomena that show him that Jesus is the son of God. John 1:32 “And John bore record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it stayed on him. 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said to me, On whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Ghost. 1:34 And I saw, and bore record that this is the Son of God”.
But, later after he had been imprisoned, and heard about the miraculous things Jesus was doing. John sends his disciples to ask Jesus, is he the one to come or do they look for another: Matthew 11:2 “Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 11:3 And said to him, Are you he that should come, or do we look for another?”
John baptizes Jesus, recognizes him as the Messiah, but now has to send his disciples, to ask if Jesus is the one to come, or do should they look for another? Something’s fishy in Boston, and it ain’t the fish. I’ll leave that one for you to ponder.
Jesus can’t do great works in his hometown
Another point,
Jesus can’t do great works in his hometown
If Jesus is the messiah and God in the flesh, why did people’s belief, have anything to do with his ability, to heal them or to do great works?
Mark 6:3 “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 6:4 But Jesus, said to them, a prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk, and healed them. 6:6 And he marveled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.” If he’s God why couldn’t he do any great works in his supposed home town?
His name shall be Emmanuel
The writer of Matthew tries to show that Jesus is the son of God or the Messiah by quoting a prophecy of the prophet Isaiah in the Old Testament:
Matthew 1:20 “But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, you son of David, fear not to take to you Mary your wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took to him his wife: 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS”.
Now many of us may have read this story or heard about it, and think that this proves, that Jesus is the son of God or the Messiah. Bu, Isaiah’s prophecy says the child’s name shall be “Emmanuel” “God with us”. But Joseph named his child “Jesus”. If Isaiah’s prophecy was about Joseph’s child, it didn’t come true because, Joseph named his child “Jesus” not “Emmanuel”. The angel of the Lord telling Joseph in a dream to name his son Jesus, contradicts what was said in Isaiah’s prophecy. So how can Isaiah’s prophecy be referring to Jesus?
The Original Messiah
The original Messiah was Joshua the son of Nun, the successor of Moses, who actually led the children of Israel into the Promised Land of Canaan. This makes Moses the forerunner of the Messiah. The fathers of early Roman Christian Orthodox Church adopted this pattern and applied to John the Baptist and Jesus, to legitimize their new religious cult, associating it with a more established religious tradition with a long textual history.
After that somewhat circuitous journey through our subject. Let's end by answer our starting question
Is There One Jesus In The Bible or More Than One?
Yes there is more than one Jesus in the Bible. Here's a reminder of who some of them are
1) Jesus Barabbas the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate to release instead of Christ.
2) Joshua the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor (Acts 7:45, Hebrews 4:.
3) Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ (Luke 3:29).
4) Jesus surnamed Justus, a Jewish Christian, an associated with Paul in the preaching of the gospel (Colossians 4:11). (Strong's Bible Lexicon)
5.Jesus "the Son of Sirach" ) the author of the Apocryphal book of Ecclesiasticus, who lived in the 3rd century BCE.(Dictionary.com)
Should we turn a “deaf” ear and a “blind” eye to obvious contradictions in our religious beliefs, without doing some sustained research, into the history of what we’ve been taught to believe, without question, about our religious beliefs?
Empiree: There Are Many Jesuses In The Bible That Christians Dont Even Know About
Is There More Than One Jesus In The Bible? This was actually written by a christian
i let me say up front, that this hub is not written to upset, anger, or step on anyone's cherished beliefs, who may take these stories as literally true. I'm just pointing out something that may be beneficial to their understanding of these stories, if they're open to it. And if they're not open to it...that's fine too.
I don't take these stories as literally true
Now that, that's out of the way, let's get started.
It may seem like an odd question to ask “is there more than one Jesus in the bible?” Especially since we’ve been taught that Jesus is unique and that his name is the only name we can be saved by. So let’s take a little walk through the biblical woods and see if we can separate the woods from the trees.
The Origin Of The Name Jesus
First, let’s take a look at the derivation of Jesus’ name. The English name, Jesus, is a translation or transliteration of the Latin name Iesus. Iesus is a translation of the Greek name, Iesous (pronounced I ee sus). Iesous is a transliteration of the Hebrew name Yeshua or Yehoshua, or in English Joshua
You can find this information on your own; just do an internet search on the origin of the name Jesus.
With this short lesson, I think it’s easy to see that Jesus’ name in English should be Joshua, I think that even a “blind man” could see that.
Now here’s the interesting question. Jesus’ real name is Yehoshua, so how can we only be saved by the name Jesus, since that’s not Jesus’ real name? Shouldn't the only name we can be saved by be, Yehoshua, his real name?
If we wanted to substitute a name for Jesus’ real name, wouldn't Joshua be the logical choice and make more sense, since that his name in English? Joshua would be closer to Jesus’ real name but that’s still not his real name.
So why did Christian scholars translate Yehoshua’s name as Jesus, rather than, Joshua as they did the name of Yehoshua the son of Nun, in the Old Testament, when they translated the Bible into English in the seventeenth century AD? ( Joshua is the original Jesus in the bible).
We’ll take a look at that question in a second, but first, let’s take a look at how many people named Jesus are in the bible, other than Jesus.
People named Jesus in the Bible
1) Jesus Barabbas was the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate to release instead of Christ.
2) Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor (Ac. 7:45, Hebrew. 4:.
3) Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ (Luke. 3:29).
4) Jesus surnamed, Justus, a Jewish Christian, associated with Paul in the preaching of the gospel (Colossians. 4:11.) (Strong’s Bible Lexicon)
5.Jesus "the Son of Sirach" ) the author of the Apocryphal book of Ecclesiasticus, who lived in the 3rd century BCE.(Dictionary.com)
Have you ever heard of these people? I hadn’t until I did this research the results of which I’m sharing with you now.
Jesus Barabbas
We’ve all heard the story of how following Jesus’ arrest, the people were asked choose which one of two prisoners they would like to set free, Jesus or Barabbas, and that they chose to set Barabbas free.But what you probably didn’t is that, Barabbas’s first name was….Jesus! Isn’t that amazing! You have to prisoners with same name! But it’s even more amazing then that.
This is the meaning Barabbas: “Barabbas i.e., son of a father or the father, the notorious robber whom Pilate proposed to condemn to death instead of Jesus, whom he wished to release, in accordance with the Roman custom (John 18:40; Mark 15:7; Luke 23:19). But the Jews were so bent on the death of Jesus that they demanded that Barabbas should be pardoned (Matthew. 27:16-26; Acts 3:14). This Pilate did” (Easton's Bible Dictionary).
So Bar means son and Abba means father Barabbas son of the father. Why did the author of Matthew leave out Barabbas' first name in this story? I think his first name was it left out on purpose.
Jesus was called the “son of the father” and Jesus Barabbas was called the “son of the father” So there were two "Jesus' “sons of the father" on trial that day! So which one was the "real" Jesus?
Obviously the translators of the story, only wanted us to focus on the Jesus, they wanted us to focus on. They didn’t want us to see that there were two “Jesus on trial in that day. So how can we sure which one was the real Jesus? That’s good question to ponder don’t you agree? For more on this issue (See "The Mystery of Barabbas" 1993 Dr. M.D. Magee
Joshua the son of Nun
Let move on and take a look at the original Jesus of bible, Joshua the Son of Nun. Many people may never have been aware of this because, when the Septuagint, the original Greek Old Testament, translated from Hebrew Bible around 3 BC, (300 years before Jesus) Joshua's name is transliterated as Ieous (Jesus).
Here’s what Strong's Bible Lexicon says about Joshua the son of Nun "Joshua = Jehovah is his help, or Jehovah the Savior or God in the flesh. The son of Nun, of the tribe of Ephraim, the successor of Moses as the leader of Israel. He is called Jehoshua in Numbers. 13:16 (A.V.) and Jesus in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews. 4:8 (R.V. Joshua)". "The meaning of Nun = "fish" or "posterity" father of Joshua the successor of Moses".
Isn’t it interesting that the fish was also the symbol of Jesus and the early Christians. So was Joshua the original Hebrew Messiah? I say yes. For a more thorough look at this subject See (“The Cult of Joshua, Christianity Revealed" by Dr. M D Magee
The Septuagint
Way before the New Testament was written; the early Jewish Christians’ bible was “The Septuagint, the Hebrew bible (the Old testament translated into Greek). In this Greek Bible, as was pointed out earlier, Yehoshua, Joshua’s Hebrew name, was transliterated as Iesous. This was the first time, the name that would eventually became, Jesus, became known to the early Greek speaking Christians. When they read the name, Iesous (Jesus), they knew that name was referring to, Joshua the son of Nun not Jesus of Nazareth.
Ahmed Osman in his book, “Out of Egypt the roots of Christianity revealed” states “ The name Jesus appeared for the first time in the Greek translation of the Old Testament made in Alexndria during the 3rd century BC. ‘Jesus’ then indicated the son of Nun, who succeeded Moses as the leader of the Israelites. Jesus is also the name given to Joshua the son of Nun in the works of Philo of Alexandria and Flavius Josephus, both Jewish authors of the 1st century AD.
When the Christian Gospels, which were also written in Greek, spoke of Jesus, it was clear to the reader then that this was the same person as the Israelite leader who succeeded Moses. The confusion only appeared from the 16th century onwards, when the Bible was translated into English. Only then the name ‘Joshua’ was given to the Old Testament character, while ‘Jesus’ was used for his New Testament appearance”. (Out of Egypt, the roots of Christianity revealed, Ahmed Osman, 1998 Random House.)
So I think that pretty much shows us that Joshua the son of nun was the first Jesus in bible.
Keeping with the theme of who was the first or original biblical person, who was the first son of god? Most of us probably think that’s a no brainer. It’s obviously Jesus.
Adam the son of God
But look at what the gospel of Luke says about who the first Son of God was, while giving Jesus’ supposed genealogy: Luke 3:38 "…Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the Son of God". So Adam was the original Son of God, very interesting.
But, in the Old Testament, Adam is depicted as anything but a Son of God. Adam is depicted as a creation of God. But in Luke, Adam is depicted as the original Son of God, thousands of years before Jesus was born! But how can that be, when we read, “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul”. Genesis 2:7. So obviously the writer of Luke wanted to make Jesus divine by making him a descendant of Adam the original son of god, even though Genesis states, Adam is a creation of god not a son of god.
There were many sons of god during that time, which is why the early Roman Christians clergy, made Jesus the only begotten Son of God, to make him distinct from and more legitimate than other religions sons of god. But all sons are begotten by their fathers (Begotten is from Beget. “Beget meaning to procreate as the father: Sire: To produce as an effect or outgrowth” (Webster’ Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary)
Sons of God and Angels
Although Adam wasn’t God’s son, genesis does mention that god had sons. "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" .Genesis 6:4
So I think this is proof positive that, contrary to what Christians have been taught to believe…that god had other sons besides Jesus. And the Old Testament doesn’t mention Jesus, as a son of god and he definitely, not the only son of god.
Some Christians think that when genesis refers to sons of god that the sons are really angels. Here’s what angel means. “Angel from the Greek, Angelos, and literally means messenger (Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary) as in "messenger of God", not "son of God" as some of us may have been conditioned or brainwashed, I mean taught to believe.
Paul had very little success in convincing the Jews of Asia Minor and Greece that Jesus was the Jewish messiah so Paul turned his attention to Gentiles (non-Jews) who were attracted to Paul's idea of "eternal life" through accepting Jesus as "lord." Paul believed that Gentiles could become Christians without converting to Judaism with its requirements of circumcision and dietary laws.
In 66 AD, the Jews revolted against the Romans in an effort to liberate the kingdom of Israel. The Christians in Jerusalem saw what was happening and fled east across the Jordan river to Pella and other places.
In 70 AD, the Romans crushed the revolution by destroying Jerusalem and the Jewish temple. Throughout the years, Jerusalem had been the headquarters for the Christians who were closest to Jesus, such as Peter, James, and others. Christians in Jerusalem considered themselves within Judaism. They had serious doubts about Paul and sometimes opposed him.
After the destruction of Jerusalem, the influence of Jewish Christians began to decline. The churches in Asia Minor, Greece, Rome, and other places where Paul had spread his version of the "gospel" took over the leadership of the Christian movement. These churches were mostly in "Hellenized" areas where Greek culture and ideas had flourished since the days of Alexander the Great.
The Christian movement began to establish its identity as a religion separate from its Jewish roots. But the movement carried with it the terminology which Paul used in his interpretation of the significance of Jesus.
Between 70 AD and 100 AD, four unknown writers collected whatever could be found or remembered about the life and teachings of Jesus. These writings became the books known as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament. It is in the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke that we come closest to the teachings of Jesus in his parables and discover the "gospel of Jesus" which is very different from the "gospel of Paul."
Please, back up your arguments that +Paul created christianity and + Paul's teachings are more relevant than Jesus's Please, summarize what Paul's teachings are about since you are claiming that he created christianity. you lied that Paul created christianity. There is no easy was to summarize this mess creasted by Mr. Paul.
Jesus was not the founder of Christianity as we know it today. Most of the New Testament doesn't even concern the historical Jesus. The Apostle Paul and his followers define what became Christianity.
Paul never met Jesus in the flesh. Influenced by Greek Hellenism and various mystery cults he turned the man Jesus into spiritual deity.Paul (formally Saul) was a hired hit man and enforcer for the Roman appointed-controlled High Priest the traitorous Caiaphas. He was hostile to Judaism and there's no real proof he had any knowledge of it outside the Greek Septuagint.
According to Paul, Jesus' Jewish teachings are not relevant to salvation. While Jesus is regarded by Christians as the founder of the faith. Paul's role in defining Christianity can't be ignored. Roman Catholicism chose Paul over Jesus.
"Paul is regarded as the great interpreter of Jesus' mission, who explained, in a way that Jesus himself never did, how Jesus' life and death fitted into a cosmic scheme of salvation, stretching from the creation of Adam to the end of time."
The doctrines of Christianity come mostly from the teaching or influence of Paul, an alleged Pharisee? who rejected his Pharisaic Judaism.
His worship was that of a "Christ" totally unrelated to the Jewish Messiah, a nationalist (and human) figure that was supposed to free the nation from foreign (Roman) rule. PAUL, ST. (died c. A.D. 68), founder of Pauline Christianity. His name was originally Saul. He later claimed that he was a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, from a long-established Pharisee family in Tarsus. According to Acts (though not according to Paul himself) he studied in Jerusalem under Gamaliel, the leader of the Pharisees and grandson of Hillel.
Theology of Paul from a Christian Deist
What you usually hear about Jesus today in churches and on TV is an interpretation that comes from the writings of a man named Paul who called himself an "apostle" (messenger) but was not among Jesus' "twelve" disciples who are also called "apostles."
Paul's ideas about Jesus are found in letters which he wrote to churches and which were later included in the book called the "New Testament."
Paul, whose Jewish name was Saul, lived during and after the time of Jesus but Paul never claimed to have seen or heard Jesus except in some kind of mystical "vision" after the time of Jesus. From his "vision" of Jesus, Paul became convinced that Jesus was the Jewish "messiah" ("christos" in Greek) whom Paul believed would become the ruler ("lord"wink of all humanity, not just the "kingdom of Israel."
Paul referred to Jesus by the title of "christos." The word English word "Christ" in the New Testament is a transliteration of the Greek word "christos" (meaning "anointed one"wink which, in turn, is a translation of the Hebrew word "mashiach" (messiah) which also means "anointed one." The title "mashiach" (anointed one) refers to someone who is chosen for a special purpose, such as a king.
Since the New Testament was originally written in Greek, the term "christos" is used as a title for Jesus. Jesus (the) Christ simply means Jesus "the anointed one." Eventually the followers of Jesus became known as "Christians."
What did Paul believe about Jesus, and how did Paul's ideas become dominant in Christian churches?
Although Paul considered Jesus to be God's Son, "in the form of God" (Philippians 2:6) Paul believed that Jesus was subordinate to God "the Father." Paul wrote,(I Corinthians 8:6).
Paul began preaching that Jesus was the "messiah" (Christos) whom the Jews were expecting but he immediately ran into a problem. The Jews were not expecting their messiah to be crucified. According to the book of Acts, Paul "came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the (Hebrew) scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and rise from the dead, and saying, 'This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ" (Acts 17:1-3).
Paul called his message the "gospel of Christ" (Romans 15:19). Paul summarized his "gospel" in his letter to the Christians at Corinth, "Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, by which you are saved, if you hold it fast -- unless you believed in vain.
Paul's "gospel" can be summarized as follows:
(1) "Christ died for our sins" -- The penalty for sin is death but Jesus is God's divine and sinless Son who died on the cross to pay the death penalty on behalf of humankind.
(2) "He (Jesus) was raised on the third day" -- God raised Jesus from the dead on the third day and gave him authority as "lord" (ruler) over all humankind, and whoever "confesses that Jesus is lord" and "believes that God raised him from the dead" will be saved from sin and death.
Does all of this sound familiar to you? It should because Paul's theology became dominant in the Christian movement. Paul preached for about 30 years after the time of Jesus. He spread his views through his missionary journeys in many countries and he wrote letters to the young churches that he established or visited. His letters were kept and circulated among the early Christians.
malvisguy212: a gown up man cannot answer the question of a kid? Quran told you to invoked peace on prophets without given you reason?
You cannot state the reason why of the virgin birth.
Let me ask the question know muslims have been able to answer once again;
Both the Qur’an and the Bible tell us very clearly that Jesus had no human father. We must therefore ask ourselves this vital question, “Since Jesus is addressed as a ‘son’ by the angel Gabriel both in the Qur’an (Surah 19:19) and in the Bible (Luke 1:35), whose son is he?” Is it Mary’s? In Surah 19:19, the angel Gabriel said to Mary: “I am only a messenger of thy Lord, to announce to thee the GIFT of a holy son .” Here, Gabriel refers to a son who was to be given as a “GiFT” by God to Mary. Since the Qur’an makes it very clear that the son is a gift from God, it shows that Mary was only the recipient of that gift. She is not the source of that gift but God. The gift belongs to God. The gift was a son. Therefore, the son belongs to God which means the son was His or His son. In other words, God’s son. This testifies to the Gospel truth that Jesus is the Son of God.
malvisguy212: you quote this quranic verse to proved your point that Jesus is just a ordinary man; Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that PASSED AWAY before him....." (5:75, Yusif Ali) If Jesus is an ordinary Man, then He died, if Jesus did not die, then explained to me How an ordinary man who is a prophet ,Allah would not allow the Jews to killed him, but his favourite prophet(muhammed) died in the hand of a Jewish woman?
You said, muslims already give Jesus the respect by adding "peace be upon him" on his name. Why will I invoke the peace of God on someone who is nearer to God? between heaven and earth,where is more peaceful? Comperd with what Jesus said here;
John 14:27 27 Peace I leave with you, MY PEACE I give to you; NOT as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Jesus should be the one intercede on our behalf for peace.
You quote this verse; Qur'an 3:45 "(And Mentioned) when Angels said; "Oh Mary, Allah give you good news of a word from Him. whose name will be messaiah, Jesus, the son of Mary HELD HONOR IN THIS WORLD AND LIFEAFTER and among those who are brought near (to Allah)"
Let me ask you this question. What is the purpose of the virgin birth? Why did Jesus have to be born of a virgin? Quranic verse pleasure. If you open your mind and answer this question, you will find out that the writer of the quran don't want you to know something OR he is very very confused
You ask this question; Show me evidence that Jesus said he is more than a prophet, servant and messanger of God?.
John 17:3 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the GLORY I HAD with YOU before the world began.
Can a prophet shere the same glory with God?Jesus has two Nature, God and fully human.Our Lord prayed as a man, and as the Mediator of his people; yet he spoke with majesty and authority, as one with and equal to the Father.
Empiree: It's obvious you can not answer my question. I am not going back n fourth on this anymore. Qur'an position is very clear and straight forward. I asked you to prove to me where Jesus said because he has those 3 attributes make him Lord and Savior?. You can not answer. Instead you said I should not expect him to say that. So if that is the case, it means it's your theory to claim Jesus is more than prophet not Jesus. So what is it to talk about?. You are only interested in doing me "wayo" aka fraud. That's not gonna work with empire.
To answer your question on whether muslim can kill if Jesus cartoon is drawn, I know you still trying to play me same WAYO. The answer to this effect is simple one. Any learned muslim would not kill for prophet Muhammad's cartoon. Those we see on tv only did what did for their own selfish interest. Quran position is clear when it comes to such silly things. It says to turn away from those who mock religion, prophets, God etc. And yes, we are not happy with nonsense pictures attributed to Jesus (pbuh) by christians and atheists. That's why we dont draw pictures of any prophet of God regardless of their status. It's blasphemy to do that. And you christians have done that to Jesus that you claim you love so much.
As for discriminating or making difference between any prophets or messangers of God, what that means is to believe in some and reject some. Clearly you dont believe in Qur'an, you dont believe in prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and you want to tell me who Jesus was?. But we muslims believe in all prophets and messangers. Yes, they are graded by their status as in their mission. Some prophets were sent to their family, some to their community, some to entire nation(a country). Some sent to tribe(s). Jesus was sent only to Israelite. This means all prophets before Muhammad were not given universal message except for WORSHIP OF ONE GOD.
Prophet muhammad was sent to the whole world (mankind, Jinn, living and non-living things). Definitely their ranks are different from that percepective. That's not distinction Quran is alking about.
Distinction Qur'an is talking about is to believe in some prophets and reject others which is what you do. You do not believe in Muhammad(peace be upon him)
As for Jesus being honored in this world and lifeafter, the same applies to all prophets and messangers. Qur'an blessed them all in surat As-Saffat (37:181). And many other places througout Qur'an.
plainbibletruth: If you clearly, honestly and logically consider the claims I made about Jesus’ uniqueness from the Quran you will not accuse me of any misrepresentation.
However, if you refuse to be rational then I guess there is nothing anyone can do about that.
We have not even gone into areas in the Quran where Jesus is said to have a more unique place in this world and the other world which you quoted yourself, "(And Mentioned) when Angels said; "Oh Mary, Allah give you good news of a word from Him. whose name will be messaiah, Jesus, the son of Mary HELD HONOR IN THIS WORLD AND LIFEAFTER and among those who are brought near (to Allah)" and you are already stuck!
You claim the Quran prohibits making distinction between God’s prophets. But in theory and/or practice is this really so? You yourself stated that there are classes – ’25 most powerful’, ‘special five’ Arch-prophets that are ‘extremely powerful’ and you claim there is no ‘class’. Come on, Empiree! Let me ask you this: will Muslims kill anyone for making a cartoon of Jesus like they do for that of Mohammed? I need your honest and sincere answer.
Did Jesus himself say he had virgin pregnancy and birth and the other attributes or they were recorded in the Quran and you simply accepted it as such? Why now put the onus on me to show you where Jesus said this or said that? Must Jesus say it himself before you believe the facts recorded in your Quran? What I have stated is found in the Quran.
You can't just talk. You have to bring up evidence. Now here is my logical question which i asked you before. Show me evidence that Jesus said he is more than a prophet, servant and messanger of God?. Simple, isn't?. Your "wayo" that Jesus has combined attributes make him God is your personal theory.Answer that question @boldblue. I already brought up the evidence – the record shows that no other prophet in the Quran had these 3 unique attributes, put together in one person, which Jesus had. Do you dispute that? Or is it a question of struggling with giving a sensible response to that conclusion?
Let’s put it this way: from the Quran it can be seen that Jesus is a prophet who had those distinctively unique attributes that NO OTHER PROPHET OF ISLAM has. Am I right or wrong?
Empiree: [quote author=plainbibletruth post=32007205][size=7pt][/size] My goal is simple – Mine is simplest.
to open your eyes to see that from your Quran if the facts of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ in one person are clearly, honestly and logically considered you will come to no other conclusion than that he is unique. You just repeating yourself. You are not saying anything new. That's why I said earlier that you tried to do me "wayo". I dont need you to tell me what Qur'an says. As a matter of fact you dug a hole for yourself. Since you made those claims/evidences from Qur'an, you should then believe in Quran. Simple isn't?
What you are yet to do is to give the reasonable response to that conclusion. Honestly, you just repeating yourself and I wont respond to you after this if you fail to grab it. Your logical deduction have no proof. Now I will try to keep it very simple as possible.
You provided those unique evidences from Qur'an. And you said because Jesus had those "3 combined unparalleled/unique attributes", therefore he must be more than just prophet. And i gave you Qur'anic evidence that he was simply a prophet, servant, messanger. Very simple and supported with evidences
Jesus said: He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet. (19:30, Yusif Ali)
"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah,..." (4:171, Yusif Ali)
"Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him....." (5:75, Yusif Ali)
Now, your claim that:
If you Muslims have no problem with these attributes, like you said, how come you don’t accord him the reverence he deserves Qur'an, Islam and Muslims already accorded him respect he deserved. Anytime his name is mentioned, we say PEACE BE UPON HIM. Very simple. Qur'an says with respect to honoring Jesus(pbuh). Qur'an 3:45
"(And Mentioned) when Angels said; "Oh Mary, Allah give you good news of a word from Him. whose name will be messaiah, Jesus, the son of Mary HELD HONOR IN THIS WORLD AND LIFEAFTER and among those who are brought near (to Allah)"
for having God work those unsurpassed things through him which literally make him STAND OUT head and shoulders above other prophets? How come? You can't just talk. You have to bring up evidence.
First all, Quran prohibit making distinction between God's prophets.
Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." 3:84
Secondly, it's said that there are 144,000 prophets and messangers sent by God. Of all these, only 25 most powerful are mentioned in the Quran. And from the 25 there are "special five" called Ulul'azm Anbiya' (Arch-Prophets) singled out to be extremely powerful with strong will and determination.
He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him].(Qur'an 42:13)
See the last bold part (green) clearly describes you. That's exactly the reason you dont understand. Read further...
"And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant."
^This Ayah begins with the last Prophet, as a token of respect, may the blessings of Allah be upon him, then the names of the other Prophets are given in order, may the blessings of Allah be upon them. Ibn `Abbas said: "The strong covenant is Al-`Ahd (the covenant).
So there is no evidence from Qur'an to suggest that Jesus was more than a prophet. You can't just tell me to accept your wack logical deduction without evidence to back it up.
Now here is my logical question which i asked you before. Show me evidence that Jesus said he is more than a prophet, servant and messanger of God?. Simple, isn't?. Your "wayo" that Jesus has combined attributes make him God is your personal theory.Answer that question @boldblue.
Sidenote: You may need to read Michael Hart's Top 100 Most Influential Persons In History
He rated:
Moses #4 Jesus #3 Apostle Paul #2 Muhammad#1
Michael Hart himself is a christian born in NYC. He was asked by Christian scholars why he rated Paul above Jesus?. He replied that Jesus didnt write any book, he didn't do lots of work, he didnt create Christianity. He said Paul created Christianity in his name to earn reputation. Therefore, Jesus did not deserve to earn second position according to him.
plainbibletruth: [size=7pt][/size] My goal is simple – to open your eyes to see that from your Quran if the facts of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ in one person are clearly, honestly and logically considered you will come to no other conclusion than that he is unique.
Thankfully you have not disproved that. What you are yet to do is to give the reasonable response to that conclusion.
If you Muslims have no problem with these attributes, like you said, how come you don’t accord him the reverence he deserves for having God work those unsurpassed things through him which literally make him STAND OUT head and shoulders above other prophets? How come?
plainbibletruth: [size=6pt][/size] I was not the one who brought up the issue you are raising.
My claim is simply this: According to the Quran - Jesus birth was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:45 – 47 Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders: - Sura 3: 49; 5:110 Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:55
Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural. The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ make him the MOST UNIQUE and SUPERNATURAL PERSON who ever lived because he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together.
However this fact seems to have escaped Muslims like yourself.
You revere Mohammed: You give him deferential honour. Yet Jesus who was more unique in the ways pointed out above is given only a second place (or perhaps third or fourth or … … place?) by you. Does that not seem strange?
Empiree: Don't be amazed. I delibrately ignored it becuase you make no sense. And since you iterate you got your evidences from Qur'an, then let's see what Quran says about status of Jesus before God and muslims. Quran says: Jesus was no more than a messanger(prophet). Sura 5:75
"The Messiah (the son of Mary) was NO MORE THAN A MESSANGER. Many were messangers that passed away before him His mother was siddiqah(she believe in the word of Allah and His Books). The both used to eat (as human do but Allah does not eat). Look how We make the signs clear to them, yet look at how they are diluded away from the Truth"
As for his uniqueness you talked about, Quran say it merely a sign for mnakind. And that his similitude is that of Adam.
Sura 3:59-60
The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam. He created him from dust and then said to him "Be! and he was". The truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt".
So from Qur'an it's clear that Jesus is 100% human being, a messnager and prophet of God. Nothing more. And his status as God's servant can never be undermined by Muslims.
Now, on the issue of him being called God in your Bible, then, you have to agree with me that your Bible contradicts itself if you think Jesus is God when your same Bible called him prophet, servant. Besides, places he's called God/god in the bible it's Bible writers and others that called him by that.
So it is your persnal doctrine to think because Jesus had those 3 unparralled attritubes he's more than prophet. Prove to me from your Bible that Jesus said that. Very simple question.
As for "returning to source" according to you, which source exactly?. Bible?. Now let's see.
Show me where in the Bible Jesus said he was given Bible Show me where in the Bible it called itself bible Show me in the bible where it says this is the bible "according to Jesus" And which bible exactly because you have many of them. I can name them if you want.
plainbibletruth: I’m amazed! I’m amazed because I believe you should be smarter. The very first issue I presented is the uniqueness of Jesus from the Quran. Is this a fact or not? The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ IN ONE PERSON.
Is there anybody who combines all the three attributes I listed in one person? You did not address this.
I believe I was plain on what I presented; so I don’t know the “wayo” you’re talking about.
In addition I didn’t say Jesus Christ was not a prophet or a messenger. Not at all! I only added that he was more than those. He combined those offices and much more. So your quotes did not really disprove anything.
You haven’t proved my challenge wrong. Simply this: show any other person who has or combines ALL these three attributes put together in one person.
It is not about cooking up my own opinion. I’m saying that evidence from your holy book, the Quran, shows clearly the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. The issue then is why has this fact escaped Muslims like yourself? Strange?
When the evidence from the Quran about Jesus is accepted by any Muslim it becomes easy to then go to the more comprehensive source of information about him – the Bible – to get details on him that show him for who he truly is.
So on your question; the Gospels in the following portions give answer: As Lord – John 8:58, 11:25, 13:13-14. Luke 6:5, 22:67-70, 23:3. Additionally the book of Revelation 1:8. As Saviour – John 10:11, 15. These are clearly Jesus’ own words and claims.
But you missed out one simple thing: The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ make him the MOST UNIQUE and SUPERNATURAL PERSON who ever lived because he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together.
So by your amplification - Unparalled simply means exceptional, having no equal etc
unique means being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else. Now let's take a look at your assertions
Note again what I said: he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together in one person. I challenge you to show otherwise.
NONE of all those you attempted has ALL THREE put together in ONE PERSON! In spite of this Muslims still don’t accord him the high place he deserves.
Now do you get it?
Jesus Christ is therefore more than a prophet or a messenger. Jesus Christ is saviour and Lord of all!
Empiree: Nice try...[quote author=plainbibletruth post=31892462]Even the Quran shows Jesus to be more UNIQUE than any other ‘prophet’ yet this FACT is ignored by millions of Muslims who should accord him the reverence he deserves by accepting him as their saviour. ok. let's see
3 UNPARALLED UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT Jesus Okay. We first need to difine what "unparalleled" and "unique" mean.
Unparalled simply means exceptional, having no equal etc
unique means being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else. Now let's take a look at your assertions
Jesus birth was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:45 – 47 Click the link for the verses http://quran.com/3/45-47 simply means he was born without father. But he has mother, Mary. Now let's take a look at Adam. He has no father and mother. Quran speaks: "Truly, the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be,' and he was." (Sura 3:59)
So Jesus had at least mother. Adam had none. So Adam's creation is more unique in this sense. Now let's take a look at the Bible, the tale of Melchizedek. Bible described him.
King James Version (KJV) Hebrews 7:1-4
1- For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2- To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3- Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 4- Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
So it's clear from both Qur'an and the Bible that despite Jesus unique birth, there are others who were more unique and unparalled than Jesus because:
Adam and Jesus had the beginning
Adam had no father, no mother
Jesus had a mother
Melchizedek on the other hand had no beginning, no genealogy, no father no mother yet he is also called son of God
Your claimed refuted here. grin
Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders: - Sura 3: 49; Sura 5:110 "[The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic." Click here: http://quran.com/5/110
"And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers."
So in the verses above, we muslims do not dispute Jesus performed miracles, But he did so with help of God. The verses are so clear.
Now let's look into Bible other prophets that performed miracles.
Elijah: James 5:17 ->Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months.
1 Kings 17:14-16 -> "For thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'The bowl of flour shall not be exhausted, nor shall the jar of oil be empty, until the day that the LORD sends rain on the face of the earth.'" So she went and did according to the word of Elijah, and she and he and her household ate for many days. The bowl of flour was not exhausted nor did the jar of oil become empty, according to the word of the LORD which He spoke through Elijah.
1 Kings 17:22-23 The LORD heard the voice of Elijah, and the life of the child returned to him and he revived. Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper room into the house and gave him to his mother; and Elijah said, "See, your son is alive."
1 Kings 18:36 At the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet came near and said, "O LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, today let it be known that You are God in Israel and that I am Your servant and I have done all these things at Your word.
2 Kings 1:10-12 Elijah replied to the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty " Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. So he again sent to him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he said to him, "O man of God, thus says the king, 'Come down quickly.'" Elijah replied to them, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.
1 Kings 18:41-45 Now Elijah said to Ahab, "Go up, eat and drink; for there is the sound of the roar of a heavy shower." So Ahab went up to eat and drink. But Elijah went up to the top of Carmel; and he crouched down on the earth and put his face between his knees. He said to his servant, "Go up now, look toward the sea." So he went up and looked and said, "There is nothing." And he said, "Go back" seven times. read more.It came about at the seventh time, that he said, "Behold, a cloud as small as a man's hand is coming up from the sea." And he said, "Go up, say to Ahab, 'Prepare your chariot and go down, so that the heavy shower does not stop you.'" In a little while the sky grew black with clouds and wind, and there was a heavy shower. And Ahab rode and went to Jezreel. -
2 Kings 2:8 Elijah took his mantle and folded it together and struck the waters, and they were divided here and there, so that the two of them crossed over on dry ground.
Elisha also performed miracles. Let's stop here. So other prophets also have unparalleled qualities of Jesus(peace be upon him)
Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:55 http://quran.com/3/55 "[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ."
Elijah Ascends to Heaven 2 Kings 2 New King James Version (NKJV) And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 Then Elijah said to Elisha, “Stay here, please, for the Lord has sent me on to Bethel.”
So here according to your Bible Jesus was murdered. Elijah on the other hand ascended to heaven. So here we see Elijah has same unparalleled qualities like Jesus.
Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural. Jesus died on the cross, so that we might have forgiveness of our sins, and also rose from the grave, and conquered death. Nonsense!
Wouldn’t these – his unique and supernatural birth, his unique and supernatural life and his unique and supernatural end of his life – make him the ONLY PERSON who ever lived and had all these UNPARALLELED qualities in these three areas COMBINED and not just in one or two? Irrelevant. Reference above. You are refuted.
Any other thing will be beating about the bush or groping in the DARK. Remove the mole from your eyes. Embrace Islam. Jesus is not Lord. He was a prophet and messanger. Therefore, there were others like him.
plainbibletruth: Even the Quran shows Jesus to be more UNIQUE than any other ‘prophet’ yet this FACT is ignored by millions of Muslims who should accord him the reverence he deserves by accepting him as their saviour.
Instead Empiree, Rilwayne001, and Co are busy arguing about non-essentials while their eternal destinies are at stake.
3 UNPARALLED UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT JESUS
Jesus birth was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:45 – 47 Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders: - Sura 3: 49; 5:110 Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:55
Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural. Jesus died on the cross, so that we might have forgiveness of our sins, and also rose from the grave, and conquered death.
Wouldn’t these – his unique and supernatural birth, his unique and supernatural life and his unique and supernatural end of his life – make him the ONLY PERSON who ever lived and had all these UNPARALLELED qualities in these three areas COMBINED and not just in one or two?
Do these not make him the MOST UNIQUE and supernatural person that ever lived? Does that not demand an UNEQUALED response to him from you?
Truly that (responding to him by believing on him as SAVIOUR) will be the starting point to knowing him more and understanding the Bible. Any other thing will be beating about the bush or groping in the DARK.
limamintruth: But why do you do this to yourself? cheesy I only asked a very simple & straighforward question, hence, i expected your reply to have been simple & straighforward also. But all you did was to beat around the bush and you still ended up not answering my question.
I didnt ask you to form a personal opinion of who the first muslim is, rather the question was: Who was the first muslim ACCORDING TO THE QURAN (if really you are acquainted with the quran well enough wink ) ? So why is your lengthy answer solely based on opinion? undecided
Empiree: E.G, Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."… And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."… When learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. S. 2:30, 34-35, 37e.t.c.
“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad P.B.U.H) but We revealed to him (saying): Lâ ilâha illa Ana [none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allah)], so worship Me (Alone and none else).”[Al-Anbiya 21:25]
Please how do these quranic verses you cited above answer my simple answer of who the first muslim is for God's sake Empiree The quran refers to so many individuals as 'first', so isnt there any other Quranic verse that clearly highlights who is the 'overall' first? shocked undecided
Empiree:
"And We did not send any Messenger before you but we revealed to them (saying): La Ilaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshiped but I, So worship Me (God)."(Surah 21:25) "Indeed We have sent Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance (Justice) that mankind may keep up justice."(Surah 57:25)
Unfortunately, the two verses above quoted by you even contradict each other sef. lipsrsealed Maybe you need to call them Rilwane & co. on this one oooo, lol grin
Empiree: In HolyVerses (15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15)we see that Allah Almighty took special care in planet earth to provide all the necessary means for us to be able to survive. This shows that the four days in(41:10)include the two days in(41:9), because the processes described in(41:9-10)form one series. Notesad41:9)talks about the creation of earth.(41:10, 13:3, 15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15)talk about the gradual improvment and gifts from Allah Almighty of earth for us. The creation of earth without its complexity took two days, and the wonderful creations and gifts that Allah Almighty provided for us on earth took another two days.
So are you insinuating now that according to Quran, the earth was created in 4 days by God? shocked Remember though that my question was simply: How many days was the Heavens & earth created by God according to your Quran? (so kindly answer this clearly pls cool )
Empiree:
Genesis 2:2New King James Version (NKJV) And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, andHe restedon the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Revised Standard Version (RSV) And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, andhe restedon the seventh day from all his work which he had done. In Islam we consider this blasphemy. This is very demeaning and insulting. God doesn't sleep nor rest.
Yea, I agree with you that unlike your quran(that has lots of contradictory verses grin ), the Holy Bible message is clear & unambigous on the number of days God created the heavens & earth cheesy tongue Everyone can clearly see that from the Bible verse you quoted above wink
And i can see how you'v suddenly moved from the issue of contradictions to blasphemy right? cheesy Thank God we are heading somewhere then cool
Well in response to your assumption, the Bible never said anything about God 'sleeping'; rather, we are told God RESTED on the '7th day' after creation. Remember falsifying Biblical facts wont do your argument any good. cool
Empiree: In HolyVerses (15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15)we see that Allah Almighty took special care in planet earth to provide all the necessary means for us to be able to survive. This shows that the four days in(41:10)include the two days in(41:9), because the processes described in(41:9-10)form one series. Notesad41:9)talks about the creation of earth.(41:10, 13:3, 15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15)talk about the gradual improvment and gifts from Allah Almighty of earth for us. The creation of earth without its complexity took two days, and the wonderful creations and gifts that Allah Almighty provided for us on earth took another two days.
So are you insinuating now that according to Quran, the earth was created in 4 days by God? shocked Remember though that my question was simply: How many days was the Heavens & earth created by God according to your Quran? (so kindly answer this clearly pls cool )
Empiree:
Genesis 2:2New King James Version (NKJV) And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, andHe restedon the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Revised Standard Version (RSV) And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, andhe restedon the seventh day from all his work which he had done. In Islam we consider this blasphemy. This is very demeaning and insulting. God doesn't sleep nor rest.
Yea, I agree with you that unlike your quran(that has lots of contradictory verses grin ), the Holy Bible message is clear & unambigous on the number of days God created the heavens & earth cheesy tongue Everyone can clearly see that from the Bible verse you quoted above wink
And i can see how you'v suddenly moved from the issue of contradictions to blasphemy right? cheesy Thank God we are heading somewhere then cool
Well in response to your assumption, the Bible never said anything about God 'sleeping'; rather, we are told God RESTED on the '7th day' after creation. Remember falsifying Biblical facts wont do your argument any good. cool
Note that the word 'rest' doesnt necessarily mean or translate to 'sleep'. The term 'rest' as used in the Bible, simply signifies 'a moment of refreshing ease or inactivity after labour' or betterstill, 'a period or interval of inactivity, solitude, or tranquillity'. Thus, there's nothing blasphemous about saying God rested bro. It only shows an end to God's creation work. cool
It is greatly preposterous to think that God Almighty sleeps. David himself confirmed thus:
◄Psalm 121:4 ► NIV
"Indeed, He who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep." cool
Empiree:
Courtesy:Dr. Zakir Naik Dr. Naik captured what you did
Lol, I dont remember asking Dr. Zakir Naik any question. But i'm happy he came to your rescue, though my question hasnt still been answered. grin
Empiree: This one "na brainer". Are you ready to succumb and bow out?.
To summarize your question
Here Is Your Claim:
I have to give credit where credit is due. One of the credited translations of these verses is said to be Abdullah Yusuf Ali(God bless him). Although not prefect. I have listen to this over and over again from lecturers and scholars. This will not be addressed twice. Kindly respect that. Thanks
Let us look at Ayah (verse) 7:54 "Your Guardian-Lord Is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself on the Throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil O'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds !"
Let us look at Ayah (verse) 10:3 "Verily your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself on the Throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (Hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore Serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?"
Let us look at Ayah (verse) 11:7 "He (Allah) it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and His Throne was over the waters that He mighty try you, which of you is best in conduct. but if thou were to say to them, 'ye shall indeed be raised up after death,' the unbelievers would be sure to say, 'this is nothing but obvious sorcery!'"
Let us look at Ayah (verse) 25:59 "He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of authority): Allah, Most Gracious: Ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things)."
Let us look at Ayah (verse) 32:4 "It is Allah Who has Created the heavens and the earth, and all between them, in six days, then He established Himself on the Throne (of authority); ye have none, besides Him, to protect or intercede (for you): Will ye not then receive admonition?"
Let us look at Ayat (verses) 41:9-12 "(verse 9) Say: Is it that ye Deny Him (Allah) Who created the earth in two days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the worlds. (verse 10) He set on the (earth) mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (sustenance). (verse 11) Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: 'Come ye together, Willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We do come (together), in willing obedience.' (verse 12) So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We (Allah) adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) The Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge."
There is no contradiction in the Noble Verses above.
In the above Holy Verses (7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 32:4, and 25:59) we see that Allah Almighty clearly states that He created the universe in six days. Holy Verses (41:9-12) describe the primal creation of our physical earth and the physical heavens around us. If we count the two days mentioned in (41:9), the four days, mentioned in (41:10), and the two days mentioned in (41:12), we get a total of eight days. However, the four days in (41:10) include the two days in (41:9), because the processes described in (41:9-10) form one series. In the one case it is the creation of the formless matter of the earth; and in the other case it is the gradual evolution of the form of the earth, its mountains and seas, and its animal and vegetable life, with the "nourishment in due proportion,(41:10)" proper to each.
To further understand the complexity of the creation of the earth, let us look at Ayat (verses) 15:19-20"And the earth We (Allah) have spread out (Like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. And We (Allah) have provided therein means of subsistence- for you and for those for whose sustenance ye are not responsible." Majesty, order, beauty, and harmony are shown in all Allah's Creation, but especially in the heavens. Coming nearer to man, Allah's care for man and His goodness are shown (besides His other qualities) in His creation of the earth. In highly poetical language, the earth is described as spread out like a carpet, on which the eternal hills act as weights to keep it steady.
Let us also look at Ayah (verse) 13:3"And it is He (Allah) Who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains, standing firm, and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He (Allah) made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil O'er the day. Behold, verily in these things are Signs for those who consider!"
Let us also look at Ayah (verse) 16:15"And He (Allah) has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves,"
In Holy Verses (15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15) we see that Allah Almighty took special care in planet earth to provide all the necessary means for us to be able to survive. This shows that the four days in (41:10) include the two days in (41:9), because the processes described in (41:9-10) form one series.
Note:(41:9) talks about the creation of earth. (41:10, 13:3, 15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15) talk about the gradual improvment and gifts from Allah Almighty of earth for us. The creation of earth without its complexity took two days, and the wonderful creations and gifts that Allah Almighty provided for us on earth took another two days.
My assigment to you is in the Bible, it says God rested (perhaps to drink and take a nap) during His creation of heavens and earth. This is blasphemy. Quran on the other hand refuted such a grotesque statement to be shirk. This is evidence from Bible that God rested
Genesis 2:2New King James Version (NKJV) And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Revised Standard Version (RSV) And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done.
In Islam we consider this blasphemy. This is very demeaning and insulting. God doesn't sleep nor rest.
Allah! There is no god but Allah, He is the Living the Self- subsisting Eternal. No slumber can seize him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permits? He knows what (appears to his creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of his knowledge except as He wills. His throne does extend over the heavens and the earth and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. For He is the Most High the Supreme (in glory). Surah (Chapter) al-Baqarah (The Cow) Qur-an 2:255
Again, It should be emphasized that Islam consider saying that the Lord slept or sleeps as a big unforgiving offense in respect to the Lord the Almighty Creator. Anyone who believes that the Lord the Almighty Creator slept or sleeps put himself in the category of unbeliever and he is responsible for himself at the Day of Judgment when the Lord the Almighty Creator asks him:" Did I sleep? Do I sleep? How I sleep? Prepare your answer for that big day.
Empiree: Lols Refuted by what? How can you refute basic human science facts with 'nothing'? undecided Or are these your million muslims super-humans Even an absolute illiterate wont spew such baseless exaggeration. So simply admit you have nothing relevant to say on this ish & stop claiming what does not exist. No, empire is not going back n fourth on compilation of Quran. You have no evidence to substantiate your position. I have asked you bring different Qur'an in Arabic which contradicts each other. You failed. So case closed on that. Merely posting links after links written by clowns doesnt help. Physical evidence will do. But you have none.
Once again, this is it (believing you'l profer a better answer to the question this time around):Who Was the First Muslim according to the Quran? Kindly cite relevant quranic verse(s) to support your answer. Note though: According to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed?Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion.This have I been commanded:I am the first Moslem(Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale He hath no associate. This am I commanded,and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only).And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims(surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall cool You disappointed me though. I thought you wanted to come up something big grin This simple thing that I already explained?. Haba my brother. Every muslim and some non-muslims understood this. Some basic Quranic evidences were provided earlier. Anyways, in order to understand this, I may have to walk you through "beginner mode" because quoting verses may mean nothing to you.
Definition of Islam and Muslim
Islam: the meaning comes from the Arabic verbal noun s-l-m. When appropriate vowel markers are added, the word Islam appears. The etymology of s-l-m is to submit, accept, or surrender. From this comes Islam’s conventional definition of surrender to God.Islam in short means peace acquired by submitting your wills to Almighty God.
Muslim: also has its roots in the s-l-m verb. It is a participle of the verb and refers to a person who engages in the act of submission, acceptance, or surrender. Therefore a Muslim is a person who submits to the will of God, or a follower of Islam. So the saying that Islam is a new religion is misconception.
To understand what Islam is all about, we should first examine what the word ‘Islam’ itself means. ‘Islam’ is an Arabic word which means the submission of one’s will to the only true God. A person who submits his will to God is called as a ‘Muslim’ in Arabic.
Unlike the other religions, Islam was not named after any person or any tribe, nor was it decided by a later generation of man. Islam is not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad into Arabia. It is the religion of mankind since the first man, and it was the religion of all the God’s prophets sent to mankind. God Himself chose Islam as the name of His religion. God states in Quran:
“This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.” (Quran 5:3)
So, if we see Muslim as the ones who gives himself to God, then yes Adam is the first Muslim. But if we see Muslim as the ones who gives himself to God through Islam, then Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W- peace be upon him) is the first Muslim. Key word here is submission to God's will
Though Allah sent Adam (peace be upon him) as the first human on earth, but that time Islam not yet to be "exist" means that though Adam (Peace be upon him) and his family worshiped to Allah, but it was not yet in the name of Islam because again, Islam not yet to be "exist" until Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) era.
According to what I have known and researched, the first to be a Muslim is Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) himself then As-Sabiqun al-Awwalun (Arabic: السَّابِقُونَ الأَوَّلُونَ) (The first ones to get into Islam) from Muhajirin and Ansar.
Let's see Qur'an surah Al Maidah (5) ayat 3 :
Qur'an 5:3. ...This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
When this ayat^ was given, that was when Islam first to be "exist". After that, take a look at this Qur'an surah Al An'am (6) ayat 14:
Say (O Muhammad SAW): “Shall I take as a Walî (helper, protector, etc.) any other than Allâh, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? And it is He Who feeds but is not fed.” Say: “Verily, I am commanded to be the first of those who submit themselves to Allâh (as Muslims).” And be not you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Mushrikûn [polytheists, pagans, idolaters and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh].
We Muslims simple put it this way: Adam(peace be upon him) was the first Muslim(someone who submitted to God alone) and since he was the first man created on earth. Click here http://quran.com/2/3034%20Chapter%202%20verses%2030-33 . Abraham(peace be upon him) made the same religion permanent (i:e worship of One God). Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) perfected the religion know as Al-Islam. This is logical deduction.
You gonna have to agree with me that God did not create first man as a disbeliever. The first creation(Adam) must be worshiper of One true God and all other prophets and messangers before Muhammad(peace be upon him). References of this can be found in Qur'an itself that all prophets brought islam.
"And verily, we have sent among every Ummah(nation) a Messenger, (with the command), 'Worship Allah (Alone) and avoid (or Keep away from) At-Taghut (i.e., all false deities)." (Surah 16:36)
"And We did not send any Messenger before you but we revealed to them (saying): La Ilaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshiped but I, So worship Me (God)."(Surah 21:25)
"Indeed We have sent Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance (Justice) that mankind may keep up justice." (Surah 57:25)
"Mankind were one community and Allah sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture in truth to judge between people in matters wherein they differed." (Surah 2:2 13)
We can’t find anywhere in the Bible that God revealed the name of His religion as Judaism or Christianity. Christianity itself was named after Jesus Christ while Judaism was named after the tribe of Judah. Both names had no divine origin or approval from God.
Islam was brought by our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Though there were many prophets before him, they brought the same religion, the same concept and the same God, Allah, but with a different name. However for us in the modern times we are obligated to follow the religion that our prophet (pbuh) has brought. Because he is the last messenger of Allah. He was sent to the whole world. Not just Arabs.
"Say (O Muhammad): 'O mankind! I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth there is no God worthy of worship but He; it is He Who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e., Muhammad !), who believes in Allah and His Words: follow him that you may be guided." (Surah 7:158)
"And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds." (Qur'an 21:107)
Quran 4:163
Verily, We have inspired you (O Muhammad SAW) as We inspired Nuh (Noah) and the Prophets after him; We (also) inspired Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma’il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya’qub (Jacob), and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya’qub (Jacob)], ‘Iesa (Jesus), Ayub (Job), Yunus (Jonah), Harun (Aaron), and Sulaiman (Solomon), and to Dawud (David) We gave the Zabur (Psalms)
And
Quran 42:13
He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islam) which He ordained for Nuh (Noah), and that which We have inspired in you (O Muhammad SAW), and that which We ordained for Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses) and ‘Iesa (Jesus) saying you should establish religion (i.e. to do what it orders you to do practically), and make no divisions in it (religion) (i.e. various sects in religion).
Unlike other prophets and messangers, they were sent to their own people.
* However, the Quran also mentions other ancient Prophets of old as first muslim, thereby contradicting itself. Well, I summed it up there. It's not contradiction at all. Please reference logical deduction I gave up there. Ancient prophets were the first Muslims among their people. The reason for this is because their mission was not universal. Let's take people of Israelite for instance. Anytime God sent them a prophet was meant to guide the people to the Right Path. After that prophet completed his mission, before another prophet was sent, the people have distorted message brought by previous prophet. It's was necessary for God to send another prophet or messanger to bring them back to God. This could a generation(s) after. Those people at that time worshiped idols. When a new prophet was sent he became the first Muslim amongst them and so fourth. We saw clear example of that with Moses(peace be upon him). His people in the beginning believed but after Moses, they turned back on their heel. This is just a layman explanation.
Therefore, the Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., who all lived a long time before Muhammad, as first believers also: E.G, Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."… And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."… When learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. S. 2:30, 34-35, 37 lipsrsealed e.t.c. I think I summarized everything above. But please if you are not clear enough I can definitely elaborate as time permits. This is very simple thing. It's not contradiction at all. No problem man, take your time & do every research possible on that cos i aint in a rush. I am glad you not in rush. You gave me too much assignments at a time. I am loving it tough grin grin grin grin
I am sure there are other muslims who could even explain better. We understand this legitimate questions or concerns you brought. It just depends on how individual explains it. Let me give you similar examples to show that they are not contradictions. In Sura 3 verse 33
Verily, Allah chose Adam, and Nuh (Noah), and the family of Ibrahim (Abraham) and the family of ‘Imran (in dignity) above all the people of the world. (Imran:33)
Now you may want to ask who was first chosen?. Without inserting anything in the bracket, we muslims understand. For the weak link, that's why some translations insert in the bracket (at their time) Now, look at this as well:
O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.(2:47)
And
O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.(2:122)
You may ask the same question like who was first chosen or preferred by God between Adam, Noah, family of Ibrahim, family of Imran and the children of Israel?. The answer is clear that Qur'an is talking about at respected era.
In closing, this last verse sums it all. It simply says all prophets and messangers brought One message from God. Many messangers. One message.
“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad P.B.U.H) but We revealed to him (saying): Lâ ilâha illa Ana [none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allah)], so worship Me (Alone and none else).” [Al-Anbiya 21:25]
Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by unphilaz(m): 7:06am On Feb 19, 2016
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