₦airaland Forum

SonsOfLiverpool:
we will continue to try, for every juncture we meet, we term it as the truth.

Man is hungry for truth, that is the price he has to pay for being the higher animal but he will never get the truth, truth is relative, knowledge is relative. The man who I consider dumb to him he is not dumb, man is a product of his knowledge and environment.

The "right path" is a facade, , our forefathers searched,
we will search, our sons, their sons and the sons after them will search, mystery will interfere, some will fall, some will continue, this is who we are, we are weak.

This philosophy is not one which is popular or learned, it is one I thought of after meditation, it is one I feel comfortable with.

Find what you like and fit in with it, leave others alone except when they affect you or when they become bigots (religious folks and atheist always do this)

Adios

ok ""like-minded"" i am not the only one piloting this idea

johnydon22:
Actually, it has been taken to a notch towards the absurd.

A caucasian said she identifies as a black.

A black woman said she identifies as a caucasian.

Both siting "how they feel"

And owning to that "how you feel" validates your argument nonsense the west is using to pander on idiocy, they have just as much valid argument as a man who says he is a woman.

We are becoming a society of lies when we hush objective truth in order not to offend some people.

Racism is the underlying psychological problem, so is the misogyny necessary for this to make a difference.

johnydon22:
No. it does not. still doesn't make it not to be an anomaly.

well, it is rare but being rare doesn't mean they don't exist. It is extablished. There's people born who express as a female and may have both a penis and a vagina. There’s people born who may look male with the same condition or any variation in between. Nature doesn’t always fit into neat little boxes with dividers. It’s a spectrum of variation and gender is no different.

Conflating something being an anomaly and being harmful. Lol

not to be anomal in this category does not make intersex less human or medically unfit. that is my point here. No conflation pls.

Actually this doesn't mean it is not an anomaly.

[quote]Human sex is binary, intersex is possessing characteristics peculiar with the two sexes due to genetic conditions.

How do you define woman and man? Is it by genitalias? Chromosomes? Any answer I’ve so far seen can be countered with documented examples of individuals who fit neither, or both, categories. Gender spectrum is not just about how people feel about themselves, but is based on established, verified, scientific fact.

Meaning what exactly?

meaning social contrust is the bigger picture here and not genetic system.

hahahaha.. gold

man
/man/Submit
noun
1.
an adult human male.
"a small man with mischievous eyes"
synonyms: male, adult male, gentleman, youth

woman
/ˈwʊmən/Submit
noun
an adult human female.

Tell me, how does it feel to be a boy?

Sex is biological. Chromosomes. Genitalias.

Gender is not.

Pronouns (he/she) have gender, but no chromosomes or genitalias.

Open minded, respectful people don’t like close minded disrespectful people.

No it doesn't. wearing a dress doesn't make a male into a female. that is an inherent trait which are not alterable. Being either a man or woman is contingent on this unalterable states of being

sure, genetics factor can't totally be alter, as it is inborn. What is altered is the the social consruct of the transexual patient

Agreed

[quote]Which given the biological fact stated above can either be factually wrong or factually right.

The issue is more of social and tolerance factor rather than biological concept.

JeromeBlack:
No. People just watch porn on Sundays more

watch without practice....thst is a big disturbance

JeromeBlack:
Happy Sinday.


Did you know that porn is mostly watched on Sundays more than any other day?

lol, are you suggesting that there is more sex action on Sunday than any other days of the week.

budaatum:
That's not quite what the link you posted to is saying. A read all the way through suggests the jury is out.

All the same, none of it is cited by those seeking to change gender that I have heard of, nor are the tests suggested by the studies in the link used to determine if gender swopping is appropriate. Most tests seem to just check your not insane, and in some countries, parental consent is all a minor requires.

i am not advocating for transexuality. Far from that, i am only pointing out that, it is appropriate medically. I am a cultured man myself.

budaatum:
Yes there are. Consultation on UK's Gender Recognition Act closed on 19 October, after gathering testimonies for 16 weeks. And Ireland is reviewing their's.

My question is does changes in transexuality alter relationship between parent and a child?

Germany has a protection law to support transexuality people. But does not have the laws to alter relationship with their child before or after they change. Not heard of any western nation having that either?

tintingz:
Some people here will still say this is a lie.

sure.

budaatum:
That's news, and not what I've found. If what you claim is true gender swapping would not involve hormonal therapy since their bodies would already be producing the proper gender.


Don't understand. Sounds like you would claim Mokgadi Caster Semenya is really a man! I'll post a picture of her and her spouse, Violet Raseboya, then tell if genetic gender does not include the bits?


I, buda, who may be described by some as a liberal with all the trimmings, think the medical profession are pandering to stupidity.

Most of gender swappers I've read about have more of nurture influences than nature. Or you'd have to wonder why the gods only make this mistake in affluent countries where people don't worry about their daily bread.

Buddha, No need of fourth and back argument. Scienctifc researched had go into this, brains of transgender people have been shown to match the gender of what they identify as. It's thought that the cause of it is a change in body chemistry during the early stages of pregnancy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

tintingz:
And what's wrong with it?

Not saying it is wrong nor it is good. Just that german law does not accomodate such a system for now.

Or is there european nation with such a system?

budaatum:
What johnydon22 is saying is he ain't having it, as in you don't get to decide your own gender. If you got a prick you're a diq, otherwise, your a female person. And lopping either off don't change that.

what i personally discover is that most of those that under go transgender surgeries , their GENETIC make up is predominately female/male of the sex they want to become. Granted there is nurture vs nature aspects, but most of them are genetically female/ male regardless of the birth gender . Those hospitals doing transgender surgeries require them to be genetically assessed before committing to the surgical procedures. That's After they go through the psycho/social assessment. Not All require it but most do.

tintingz:
I've discussed this with Johnydon before, I presented how "gender dysphoria" can be caused by biological factors.

But we all have our opinions, this thread is unnecessary and waste of time, the OP "Change my mind" is just a joke.

This is a burning issue in my part of the world . Some groups of Lgbt advocate are saying germany needs a drastic overhaul of gender laws after a transgender woman has been told she wanted to be legally recognised as her child's father.

johnydon22:
LOL. Having an extra toe isn't a disability either doesn't make it less an anomaly. So, how exactly is it not true that intersex is a medical condition ?

because by definition, intersex is not a disorder. A ‘disorder’ being medically defined as something incompatible with a normal, healthy life. Virtual every form of intersex has no impact on an individual’s ability to lead a healthy, long life.

Does extra toe has a negative impact?

Uhuh. Pray tell, what is the third sex?

intersex medically, it will be welcome, layman understanding it will be rejected. Germany has intersex as the third option on their birth certificate

What do you mean physiologically?

i meant to say psychologically.

Last i checked "being man or woman is contingent on being either male or female"

Man = adult human male
woman = Adult human male

Ironically that's true just not the way you mean it. We have this things being male and female which is genetic and being a man or woman boy or girl which was psychological. Historically the two were completed for a purpose of misogyny and control of both females and women but relationship at all is at base pure discrimination

Male and female are biological classification which is not contingent on social behaviors. I can wear a dress and still be a man, i can be effeminate and still be a man.

Depends on how you look at it.

Biologically speaking a man can never be a woman or vice versa. Even after transitioning as i said earlier, it is still, right now, not possible to do a full conversion from male to female or vice versa. Simply not possible yet.

In the social construct then yes, a biological male can have the social gender of a female. Or be fluid, or otherwise.

johnydon22:
Intersex is a medical condition, it is actually an anomaly just like someone having an extra toe.

not true, most forms of intersex do not cause any disabilities, deformities or similar malfunctions, The overwhelming majority of intersex individuals grow up and live their lives without any medical issues..

this doesn't really mean human sex isn't binary or gender not being contingent on sex.

Not true either.

So, we can change an XY into XX?

Because being male or female transcends these criterias listed above. I can wear a gown and top, this doesn't make me a woman.

An effeminate man is in fact male.

So, how do we do this exactly?

Genetically they will always be who they were born with. Psychologically they may not. Which is the point of discussion.here.

Meaning we cannot be sure it is true then, so how do we trust your statement?

provisional truth aren't meant to be trusted . They are simply satisfactory answer we have at hand . When new answer springforth; we adjust our scope.

johnydon22:
Isn't gender contingent on sex?

that’s not actually true. Some people have genetic, hormonal and physical features typical of both male and female at the same time, so their biological sex isn’t clearly male or female. This is called ‘intersex’.

And how do we change sex? You implied that on your first comment.

Surgery and hormones and clothing choices and are all ways to help the outside match the inside.

Is this an absolute statement?

Also provisional. Till the mystery reveal itself.

johnydon22:
There seem to be a bit of a conflation here:

Sex = Male and Female
Gender = Man and Woman

Are we talking about similar things here?

Layman understanding, they are the same, scienctific speaking both are different. Sex is the biological identity you are born with. Gender is the socio-cultural stereotype that is fed into your system as a result of the society or environment.

actually agree.

Man means = Adult human male
woman means = Adult human female

For these things to be objectively factual, there must be absolute.

""Absolute"" nothing of such in science, what we have are provisional.

I think there is need to be sure of what we are talking about as highlighted above for me to go further

ok already explained.

johnydon22:
People change their sex?

Really?

Please elaborate

what you are talking about is sex change. Nothing like gender change The definition of a man or a woman is not limited to a minor biological organ, or its reproductive purpose. Even if a man loses his penis in an accident, he still remains a man because his gender is not limited to his genitals, the psychological identity is a factor too. Similarly someone having the genitals of a particular gender cannot define them completely if their psychological identity perceives itself as another gender.

All major psychiatrist and psychiatric bodies agree that it is more beneficial and plausible for the individual to conform to their psychological identity than their biological one.

johnydon22:
This is the section where we have the most liberal minded folks especially my atheist friends. The subject of transgender is quite a sensitive one in the world today, so i am brining it again to this board.

And my argument is: A man cannot be a woman neither can a woman be a man

I want arguments that can possibly change my mind on this otherwise conservative view of human gender.

Your question is flawed. people don’t change their gender, they change their sex to match their gender, and its not a choice.

The following question is from Richard Dawkins' Twitter handle. Much of science is counter-intuitive and weird.

"If asked to rank weirdness from high to low, how do you place the following?

Cosmic inflation
Two-slit quantum experiment
“Schrödinger’s cat”
Special relativity
General relativity & curved space
Evolution of complex life without designer"

Bbsharon:
During the annual Osun-Osogbo festival the virgin dressed in white carries a heavy calabash that contains sacrifices to be offered to the goddess . She passes through the tunnel with only the priests and priestess of the goddess and pours the sacrifices into the river after which she is allowed to rest at the first palace of the king of Osogbo for days before getting back to her normal self.

The guide showing the sacred entrance...

A sculpted statue of the white woman Susan Wenger, her dog , the people she worked with and the priest she got married to.

https://www.demitalks.com/2018/11/22/

Beautiful work of sussan Wenger . Next trip, take a visit to her house, it is wonderful to behold.

mynairaland2018:
Wow! Interesting.

i will have exposed some truth here but Ghanians are reading. Do not want to send bad signal to my brethren. But those that knows really know.

Aare Atolase of offa kingdom himself. Mahama has so many things with yoruba race.

Those that knows really know.


Here is him with oba Gbadamosi of offa kingdom

What a society

In my own opinion, Having children should be a privilege and not a right. Future generations deserve to be born to parents who want their children and have the skills to raise their children. Ethically and morally, I believe future generations deserve the right to a healthy upbringing instead of adults having the right to have babies. People that want to have children and are pregnant should have to obtain a license in parenting.. no license no child.. there are so many people in this world that are begging to adopt a child and the process is so long.. this system will help them out.. people who take parenting seriously..

By this understanding, abortion should be permissible if the society presume unhealthy future for the baby or the mother. An unwanted child is not diffrence from an unwanted grass.

kkins25:
is god an idea,abstract concept please clarify. God created the universe you say, which means he influced certain parameter probably unknown to man. this parameters should be physical. After all we live in a physical universe. God is not knowledge. it or he is an entity that exist outside time and space,or so they say

By the standard, modern definition, God created all things, is the source of all things, and provides life and energy to all things. So God is beyond the ideas of any particular form, while still encompassing them all as various means of expression. It's kind of like asking if the form of an atom is matter or energy. Well it's both and can be represented as either or both depending on the circumstances, just like God. So God is physical because we see a physical world represented that He created.

the best answer would be; we dont know yet.

Sure. Who knows? So many physicists on the cutting edge of quantum physics became religious from the work they did. It is an act of ignorance that will make one to discredit a belief system that has existed since the beginning of Homo Sapiens, and probably before. What do we know, other than the fact that we don’t know much of anything - especially about the beginnings of reality? That is a complete mystery and any opinion or theory is just as valid as any other

Good, then where did come from? surely he must have existed in some dimension of some sort.

This is not a scienctifc question. But giving it a shoot; ,He would have to come from reproduceable anti-entropy. Same as everything else.

what then cause God to initiate the creation process.

Another unscientific questions. It is like asking what causes bang or bounce? Science don't know, when does it started? Science don't know either, the explanation given so far is That the Big Bang is the moment that space and time (or ‘space-time’) came into existence. At point in time when their was no space or time. So, it is actually meaningless to ask what caused the Big Bang to happen. Same to God, how can we know what instigate God to caused the process when we have not fully Understand this process itself.


I guess nobody knows it. It does not even belong to science.

By Ro babaji. ( i think i agree with him )

“For more than 200 years, materialists have promised that science will eventually explain everything in terms of physics and chemistry. Believers are sustained by the faith that scientific discoveries will justify their beliefs. The philosopher of science Karl Popper called this stance ‘promissory materialism’ because it depends on issuing promissory notes for discoveries not yet made. Despite all the achievements of science and technology, materialism is now facing a credibility crunch that was unimaginable in the 20th century.” – Dr. Rupert Sheldrake (scientist for more than 40 years, having studied at Cambridge and Harvard)

“The human consciousness is a great puzzle….The origin of the Universe is another mystery, but physicists are working on it. Maybe one day we’ll understand it…” – Richard Dawkins

Science is the pursuit of the truth. But science doesn’t (yet) understand the connection between the Universal Consciousness and our physical Universe. Science without universal spirituality is only half-truth.

kkins25:
hahahha. Ah common you knw this mistakes happen. Now you reapond to me very well sir. Lovely morning. How's your bf budaatum.

No, my girlfriend, and my beautiful feline for that matter. Hopefully she is doing very well.

I have seen your post for a very long time , do you take some adventure trip to venus?. We reply you at my free period.

[quote author=kkins25 post=73172724][/quote]quote me very well..

LoJ:
How did you lose 1 million dollars?

Don't trust these people, only few are geniue. Just read and have fun. My Nigerian brethren are known with their use of mouth

LoJ:
How did you lose 1 million dollars?

Don't trust these people, only few are geniue. Just read and have fun.

MuttleyLaff:
Chinese pictogram or pictograph
Its Chinese equivalent of hieroglyph

oh thanks, like calligraphy

There is no such thing as “nothing” in physics or science. Not even the vacuum of space is nothing.