₦airaland Forum

PabloAfricanus:
Actually its the other way round.
You Ika/Anioma folks are sooooo persistent in your ignorance.
Its like a grand display of selective amnesia carried to ridiculous heights.
On one hand, you are descended from Bini "princes" and the "Bini empire", never mind that Bini just being a next door neighbour
should historically have made Ikas a colony, settlement or vassal of Bini but that was never historically the case.
On the other hand you have nothing in common with the people you love to call call Igbos or is it Igbon...
But the reality on ground presents undeniable facts that you guys persist to ignore or outrightly deny!
Is it a case of self hatred or inferiority complex? Have you forgotten public records of precolonial history by the British still exist?
Lemme give you examples of how Ikas/Aniomas persist in their ignorance.

For one, the Eze Chima story and lineages...
How some people's imagination came up with the attribution of a Bini prince who have no contact or nothing in common with kingless
and leaderless Igbos bearing an undiluted Igbo name...is simply amazing.
How you completely disregard his obvious Igbo name and the fact that the lineages attributed to him are ALL Igbo speaking communities and call each other "umu eze chima" is also amazing!
What happened to princely Bini names? Mind you by your own admission, the "Igbos" only started immigrating into Ika lands recently.
Even more telling is your admission that all your Ika clans were directly founded and peopled by "Bini princes".
So by your own admission, Igbos if at all found anywhere near Ika lands have always been an inconsequential minority.
So who were the powerful Igbos that changed Eze Chima's name from whatever Bini name he was bearing?
Do not bother with the Khime line cos even you guys know it is a fabrication.
And not only that, completely wiped out Bini language, tradition and culture from your midst...leaving you with clearly Bini styled monarchies?
Even then, not all Ika clans had kings, most of them were formed quite recently as records show.
So then, where did these conquering Igbos come from? And why are you guys speaking an Igbo dialect?

Next, are you not aware the most of all the paraphernalia of monarchy in ALL Anioma clans is borrowed from Bini?
Meaning, it was not native to the Anioma clans?
Keep in mind that Bini is just next door, you do not have to cross any foreign land or territory to enter Bini proper.
All clans, communities and parts of the Bini empire were appointed Enogies by the Oba and are ALL BINI speaking.
Your Onishes, Ologbosheres, Iyasheres etc are all corrupted version of the Bini originals...right next door to you.
From Oguta to Onicha to Agbor...these titles have no meanings in the Ika/Enuani,Ukwuani language you speak.
The only meaning is in the Edo tongue and we all know that.
So a corruption could not have happened if Ika was a part and parcel of the Bini empire.
The Ishans and all Edo dukedoms retained the original names, meanwhile a few miles down south, an Igbo speaking
peoples with Igbo days, practicing Igbo traditions adopted these Bini trappings of monarchy.
If it was not adopted, how do you explain a so called king bearing an Igbo name Nduka Ezeagwuna going to seek relevance or is it
permission to ascend the throne of his fathers? What happened to his Edo lineage or proper Edo name?
Are you not aware of the forceful imposition of Bini tongue on Ika speaking Igbanke people carved into Edo state?
How they are told to drop their...wait for it...Igbo names and language and speak Edo as they are in Edo state?
Are you not aware the Agbor and other Ika clans resisted Bini imperialism and fought wars to block Bini incursion into Ika lands?
If that is not enough evidence to show you that Ika was just influenced socio-culturally and politically by her more powerful neighbor,
then I guess you have a problem with facts.

Finally, the reoccurring decimal in all these claims and counter claims is deliberate display of ignorance on how language and kinship works.
Igbos till date have no kingdoms, armies or royal courts. It was purely made up of autonomous communities run on republican principles.
How did they penetrate and change your language and culture?
And no, your culture is majorly Igbo not Bini as some of you love to claim.
Whatever Bini festival or culture practiced in Ika can be shown to borrowed or adopted.
On one hand, Igbos were nonexistent in Ika lands and were recent migrants...on the other hand Ika language and traditions gave way
to a dominant Igbo presence/culture in Ika land! Make up your minds already!
The persistent confusion is so hilarious!

Summary, you have a SERIOUS IDENTITY CRISIS.From all indications, it is self imposed.
I wont even bother to remind you what transpired 1966-1970. How your Bini kith and kin connived with the Nigerian government to shield and protect you from the greedy and invading Igbo Biafrans. Or how Igbo army officers from the SE like Nzeogwu, Ifeajuna carried out a coup and roped in Anioma Bini people with Igbo sounding names like Onwuatuegwu, Anuforo etc.
For some reason, the Nigerian Army could not differentiate between the SE Igbos and descendants of Bini "princes" in Anioma.
Never mind that over 80% of your surnames are Edo...or is it Igbo?
Even with all your Ologbosheres, Onishes, Iyases and your adas and Bini beads and crowns...they just matched into Asaba after getting directions
from the Oba and invited grown men from Asaba and environs for a grand Nigerian rescue party.
Or was it genocide now? Remind me please? Did the Oba protest the killing of his kith and kin? Or his Enogies?
Na wa for the Nigerian Army, they must be so persistent in their ignorance. Right?

You and your people will have to start with telling yourselves the FACTS you have buried under the persistent ignorant stories you have passed
on to your children.

My 2 cents.

solbil:
you guys and your claiming of other people and territories!

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PART OF BENUE WHERE THEY SPEAK IGBO, FACT! I am sure you are refering to the Utonkon people and those people would swear that they are not Igbo. They don't even speak anything close to Igbo!

RedboneSmith:
I am amused. Stay in Ogidi and continue to pontificate on the history of a people you don't know anything about, you hear?

Just look at the gymnastics you were playing with Nkalu and Afikpo. In one breath you say they are Igbo. In another breath you admit they came from across the Cross River, but somehow they were Igbo, even though they were Ekoi. Because Abiriba!

In one breath you dismiss the place name Ala/Allah, but want to latch unto the place-names of the villages that sound Igbo to you.

And somehow I am the one with pre-conceived notions, twisting facts to suit my narrow monolithic perceptions.

For your information, only two of the five Illah villages are believed by Illah people to have Igbo names, and one of those two immigrated from Oguta. But of course everything sounds Igbo to you people....

Adminisher:
There was a Gentleman Zik took to the constitutional conference in the UK late 50s or early 60s i am not sure.
Michael Opara. He later became Premier of Eastern Nigeria.
Anyway at the dinner the guy did not just strip flesh from the chickens on his plate with a fork and knife like most civilised people do.
He really went at them with his fingers.
It was ..crack, crack ..and then ..suck, suck.,..Crack, crack, crack...Suck, suck, suck ...

Zik was in the middle of a speech and without missing a beat , seamlessly reverted to Ibo saying;

" Okey my broda, please leave those bones alone. The Oyinbo people in this hall are already having difficulty stifling their laughter..."

RedboneSmith:
'Why wasn't Olukumi Igbonised?' 'Why wasn't Ebu Igbonised?' W'hy wasn't Olumbanasaa Igbonised?' It's like you do not understand the historical as well as the economic factors that drive emigration and determine the destinations of emigrants. That's why you ask these questions.

Of all these communities (Olukumi villages, Olumbanasa villages, Ebu, Illah, Oko, Asaba), Illah, Asaba and Oko are the only ones that successfully grew into substantial centres for trade in the precolonial period. Olumbanasaa is till today an inaccessible backwater place. Many people in Anambra don't even know it exists. Ebu has remained a small fishing community. Olukumi is still a poorly known enclave tucked away in Aniocha. Even my Obiaruku friend who claims to know Anioma like the back of his hand shouted "Nooo!" when i asked him if he knew about a place in Anioma where Yoruba is spoken. Olukumi remains an obscure place even today. Olukumi people I meeet are surprised when I express familiarity about them.

In contrast to these places, Asaba, Illah, and to some extent Oko were already attractive places even in precolonial times. They were all important centres of trade. They presented more attraction to immigrant elements (i.e., Igbos).

Asking why Ebu,Olumbanasaa, Olukumi were not Igbonised despite being today surrounded by Igbo-speaking elements is like asking why Basques were not Latinized or why Kabyle Berbers were not Arabized. The answer lies in history: How accesssible/attractive were their regions? What economic benefits did they present to immigrants?


Okay, I think I have time for some of the other issues/points you raised;

1. Afikpo had non-Igbo aborigines. Have you heard of the aboriginal Nkalu of Ehugbo? You haven't read their history as well as you should. Ngwa people themselves have told me about Mgboko aborigines in parts of Ngwa who were Annang. Ngwa people told me this, and I don't doubt it.

2. Arochukwu is not the only part of Igboland won by war. Go and read about the Abakiliki area and see how that area became Igbo. And this is a point I should have made earlier. I should have clearly distinguished between making war and creating empires. Igbos did not create empires, I agree. But they were not below making wars and seizing territories from their neighbours. Ask the Izii. Ask the Ikwo. Ask the Ezza.

Even in Illah, we have traditions of aggressive people from the East called the Ukala who used to make incursions into our territory until a certain Edaiken helped us curb their excesses. So don't tell me Igbos never tried to fight their way into a neighbouring territory.

3. My Bonny example still stands as an example of how non-combatant in-comers can cause language shift. The satellite villages that still retain the ibani language are the ones that didn't receive such incomers in nearly the same amount. All the important chiefs and important slave dealers lived in Mainland Bonny. Consequently, that is where most of the Igbo slaves went, and as a result that is where Igbonisation advanced farthest. Besides, Bonny wasn't an important slave centre long enough for thorough-going Igbonisation through slave populations to occur. That's why I said initially, "If the slave trade hadn't ended when it did..."

4. Names of settlements are often indicators of who was living where first. Many cities in America still carry the native American names of its earlier inhabitants. Same is true of Australia where there are many towns with aboriginal names. Illah and Oko are without any shred of doubt Igala names. Illah is Ala actually; Illah being an anglicization. Ala means temporary settlement, meaning that its first Igala settlers were migratory in nature, coming there to farm, trade, fish, and then returning to their permanent home at the end of the farming, trading, fishing seasons. With time they began to stay there more permanently, but Ala (temporary settlement) stuck as its name. Note that one of the Igala-speaking villages in Olumanasaa is also named Ala. In fact, some of the town names in Olumbanasaa are also mirrored downriver. There is Odekpe in Olumbanasaa. There is also Odekpe in Ogbaru. Interestingly, Odekpe in Ogbaru also claims Igala origin. Oko means farmland in Igala. It was originally founded as a farm. These things are known to the people there.

As I have said, i personally do not have issues with being addressed as Igbo. But if you want to talk about history, then Yes, my town was an Igala colony that became Igbonised. Even Osita Mordi the ika guy most of you see as a god does not doubt that Igalas and Edos got to parts of Anioma before Igbos. His argument rather is that those who have become Igbonised should identify as Igbos. Some of us agree with him, some of us don't. But it is really our debate to have. It doesn't concern southeasterners.

RedboneSmith:
It is oversimplification to assume that language changing is always due to invasion and conquest. Rome also conquered many other people who did not adopt a Latin language, e.g., Greece. The Arabs also conquered many people who did not adopt Arabic, eg., Northern India. If invasion and conquest is the most important factor, all these places should have switched their languages. Heck, Africans today should all be speaking solely English, French, Spanish and Portuguese.

Sometimes, in fact, in many cases, peaceful influx of people can drastically alter or even change the spoken language of a settlement more than armies and conquests can, especially if the in-comers have a large population.

Greek was already dying as a spoken language in Marseilles by the time Caesar got there. Granted, Romanization speeded up the process, but it would have happened anyway because Marseilles is just one colony in a sea of Gallic speakers. It was inevitable that they would get swallowed up.

Also you are wrong about Alexandria and Arabs. The Greek spoken by the founders of Alexandria had already been replaced by Coptic (the language spoken in other parts of Egypt at the time) before the Arab invasions. I don't need to tell you that this replacement had nothing to do with war, and everything to do with the strength of numbers.

The Igala colonies of the Lower Niger faced the same predicament viz-aviz the Igbo. Igboland was/is one of the most densely population areas in all of Africa, and as a result people were always moving out of its congested areas to people neighbouring sparsely populated areas. Some Igbo areas today are known to have formerly belonged to other ethnic groups, e.g, parts of Abakiliki region, Arochukwu, even Afikpo and parts of Ngwa. It shouldn't be hard to understand how Asaba, Illah and Oko among others could have started out as small Igala outposts and then be swamped by influx of Igbo-speakers from the East.

Look at what Ika-speakers had done to the Esan language of Ekpon. It did not involve war and conquest. Look at what Igbo people who came in as slaves did to the language of Bonny. It did not involve war and conquest. If the slave trade did not stop when it did, perhaps even the outlying settlements that still speak Ibani will all be speaking Igbo today. Look at what migrant Igbo farmers are currently doing to the Igala language of Akpanya. If the current trend doesn't change, that town could become a full-blown Igbo-speaking town in a matter of decades.

So don't tell me war and conquests are the only way languages change. I'm too knowledgeable to be told that. I know population strength and large-scale immigrations can equally do the trick.

Redbonesmith1:
The problem is that most of you do not have a sense of history. Marseilles in France was founded by Greeks. The natives today don't speak Greek. They haven't spoken Greek in centuries. The same can be said of Alexandria in Egypt founded by Greeks, Barcelona in Spain founded by Carthage, Fatima in Portugal founded by Arabs. All these places have made a complete switch from the languages of its founders.

You cannot use the language spoken by Asaba people today to make conclusions on the language spoken there 500 or so years ago.

Ugosample:
Which fundamental issue did Singapore have that made Malaysia kick them out That was pure wickedness, simple and short.
U.K. is doing fine right
I laugh. If they are doing fine, why are they begging for the market, and everytime Merkel tells them no market, their currency and investor confidence go negative?

And Comparing Morocco exit from OAU to Brexit is laughable, because OAU was never an economic bloc, the way the EU is, and that is why Britain is really screwed right now.

If they don't get EEA status like Switzerland, then they are finished.

Speaking of SwitZerland, it's funny how a heterogeneous country like that is one of the most developed in Europe,

raumdeuter:
Any reasonable human being will know that if you leave a job for even 3 months your positiwill be filled but you are expecting them to keep the job you abandoned for 3yrs?

Assuming you have a teacher, a driver, a bank worker etc who left his job for 3yrs, those 3 yrs the students wont be taught they will be waiting for their teacher who left, the cars wont be driven they will be waiting for the driver who left or the bank wont function they will be waiting for the worker who left

It seems some of you live in lala land

And for money left in banks. Most Biafrans withdrew their money when they were leaving and put it in Bank of Biafra. So hae you asked what happened to your money in Bank of Biafra?

What happened to the Naira notes in banks located in the east and the one looted from banks especially Central bank in Benin?

Ugosample:
You must be ignorant to say that U.K. is doing just fine .
The pound is dropping astronomically, and investor confidence has fallen badly...
You don't watch news so you will not know.

When Merkel threatened to Isolate UK just two days ago; did you see what happened to their currency

And when she further said that Britain will never have free market without free movement did you see how further the pound sunk

Theresa May has admitted that indeed it will be a BUMPY ride, and at the end of the day, Britain will have to accept the free movement to keep the free market or else their economy will collapse even more (which btw defeats the purpose why many mumu British people voted out)

And as For Malay and Singapore, you probably don't know their history.

Malaysia ejected Singapore out of the Union, not Singapore secceding.

Le Kwan Yew was even shedding tears and begging after Malay did that to them... But they had to take their destiny in their hands, and it paid off.. Malaysia today is also doing very fine, so at the end of the day, maybe it was a win win for them.

Ugosample:
I hear you.
Let us see whether a Biafra will be a reality or not na

Those countries I mentioned and you repeated are in their worse shape than when they left.
I'm not saying that Igbo people will be worse off if we leave the country, but the fundamental issues wrong with these new countries were not addressed, and drawing new lines did not change nothing, and their countries are seeing the result.



Britain thought they were too big and sophisticated for EU, now they have left see the mess they are in.....

Anyways everyone has the right to his opinions tho.

Ugosample:
And BTW, I'm an Igbo man too.

Pakistani people don't want to be part of India anymore
Though not All Pakistani tho, but many will like to be Indian, as an Indian passport carries more clout than a Pakistani one, and that is why they are escaping to the other end of the border to blend in as Indian Muslims (BTW there are more Indian Muslims than the entire Pakistanis population)
So your point on Pakistan is funny,


I don't know much about Eritrea, but the last I checked, their economy is in a cesspit, even after leaving with the ports.

Then for South Sudan... You have no idea mehn, you really don't

Ugosample:
The abandoned property menace you talk about was most prevalent in the SS, Rivers especially.
Igbo men who had property in Lagos largely got it back (at least I can talk of my circle) Our "brothers" in Port Harcourt did abandoned property Gimmick on my Grand pa (RIP) and till today he never got it back, !and that is the same Rivers some deluded "biafrans" want to add as their own.


And from the way you write, you are too bitter to reason without sentiments, so I understand your plight

Ugosample:
For goodness sakes why are you reasoning like this
ELDS also include some SS and SE states, so what are you saying again Even tho ELDS get as e be, the intent was genuine at least, to help disadvantaged parts of the country catch up educationally with the rest of the country, and that to me is not a bad thing. There should just have been a time period for it, after which it will be revieved.

Mighty America still has Affirmative Action for disadvantaged groups, and in principle is similar to ELDS
Which one is economic lists again?

Quota system is also not a very bad thing as long as qualified people from all the regions fill up the quota from each state.
the problem with quota system in Nigeria is that unqualified people get to fill the quota, and it is across board, not just in the north.
Federal character and quota system is basically the same so no need to talk about it

Ugosample:
Then why not we stand as a people to change the system, instead of creating more chaos in the system

Nigerians in general don't value lives in general, and this cuts across, as Igbo people, or Yoruba people are not exempted, and if we don't change how we do things, if you like split the country in ten, the same thing will still continue....

Threr cases in point

Eritrea from Ethiopia....
Pakistan from India
South Sudan from Sudan

how has things changed for the better since their split?

MtuMsuper:
OK OK, these situations that arose in the past were and always will be abominable. FYI am also fully aware of the circumstances of the Nigerian civil war and the sad fate that befell the ibos. I always say to people who care to listen that that war killed more people than the equally reprehensible Rwandan civil war of 1994.
It's still off topic.

MtuMsuper:
OK OK, these situations that arose in the past were and always will be abominable. FYI am also fully aware of the circumstances of the Nigerian civil war and the sad fate that befell the ibos. I always say to people who care to listen that that war killed more people than the equally reprehensible Rwandan civil war of 1994.
It's still off topic.

StoneLucifer:
Hausas and Yorubas help their fellow brothers far far more than Igbos help themselves..Am neither of the three tribes but i know Biafra or whatever it is called is rubbish..and the Igbos will suffer in their own hands should biafra cut out from Nigeria.Go and make enquiries, Igbos make more real money outside their geographical region and not even within the 5 core states of d SE.I just dey laugh these myopic people shouting BIAFRA..

Jelomy:
Please what is the meaning of the colored statement?

kikuyu2:
Ok,Pazienza , I've been following up the whole Ibo thing for a while and now I've seen the big picture though I may have missed some details and here's my conclusion. YOU GUYS WERE NEVER AS INNOCENT AS YOU INSIST.

-almost all the officers in the first coup were Ibo, a crucial fact whether or nor it was an Ibo coup
-didn't the coup plotters kill N leaders and wives? And brag about it?!
-didn't many Ibos in N areas celebrate these atrocities? Didn't an Ibo at this time compose a song 'goats are crying' to mock the Fulani?
-how did 50k FG troop die in the war? Doesn't that figure exclude 'genocide' claims?
-Yes, 3 mn Ibos died,mainly of starvation but food was a legit weapon of war in these pre ICC days
-a Yoruba leader promised to seceed but Yorubas stayed with the FG and you've abused them ever since. Frankly,they'd have served as a mere speed bump in the way of the FG

Imo,these actions were based on HUBRIS!! Overweening arrogance and contempt for the abilities of others.
-didn't Zik publicly and repeatedly call for Ibos to dominate Naij and Africa?
-didn't he admit Onitsha meant 'we despise others'?
-what made Ojukwu , a trained officer imagine he could defeat the whole FG with tiny Biafra??

Are we not seeing the same ish with IPOB and Biafra even posing with the Zionist flag?Srsly its time to abandon unhelpful attitudes.

tibro:
I'm just wondering oo.
Why is Enugu not in this list?

Abiagirl777:
hmmm,indeed!!.what we bought #14k at Everyday Emporium here in ph. so we have to ask for destoned ones.why then are they producing stoned and destined?
what nonsense.

Abiagirl777:
they still have a long way to go,we bought it last Nov,believe me,the stones in it will make your teeth shiver.I have to throw away the bottom rice each time I wash it .
I'm Igbo and I also stand for quality.