₦airaland Forum

wegevv:
I don’t believe in any “all powerful pastor” my friend, I believe in an all powerful God. It’s cool that conclusive empirical evidence is your style but that’s not how the Christian faith works because it is individual.

Well, I do not have issues with your Christian faith as long as you don't make it a universal standard for everyone. There's beauty is diversity.

You won’t be able to disprove any persons individual experience to that person because they experienced it and you didn’t. Faith is individual. If someone was physically healed from a disease they were told was incurable there’s not much you or anyone can tell them to disprove their testimony. Showing them a video of a pastor who couldn’t do healings in a laboratory set up by atheists won’t change a thing to that person. Their faith is individual to them.

Christianity is one of the easiest religion to disprove, however it's difficult to disprove the existence of a god. I am even bothered about disproving one because it doesn't matter to me.
Again, it's good if faith is what you have chosen, just don't use it to dictate how others live their lives like most Christians do. If you do that then you might start facing resistance.

I doubt many Christian’s are trying to make their faith a universal truth. If so they would be in a lab doing experiments with pastors rather than sharing their individual experiences. They share their personal truth which can help others find this individual truth too. Ultimately Christian’s believe it’s God that saves. You can’t logic someone else into faith unfortunately which is why I’m not really trying to do that here. Just explaining how I believe it works

Christians are judgemental and very annoying. Most times they think their is the universal truth and they want you to live by the rules of their Bible. It's where I start having problems with them. They think that they know all and their Bible answers everything when it's obviously not true.
Thr reason why irreligious people usually do not pick on other religion is because other religions do not show off like Christians do.
Christians are braggarts and will easily want to condemn you using their religious rules.

But people of faith also have a right to influence law, culture and norms just like everyone else. We are all being “subjected to” each other to use your own phrase. Most people believe murder should be illegal. In a democracy it’s perfectly okay for someone to believe that because of their religion and someone else to believe the same for another reason.

I live in Lagos, I have not seen a Muslim trying to convert me, I can't count how many Christians who have done that. And the wa they go about it, they make you feel like you are living a miserable life without Jesus. That's annoying and it's why I don't fancy Christians.
They are too full of themselves and their religion. This is why they get attacked alot by irreligious people

ReacherSaidNoth:
I should have known, he is a special kind of deluded.

I swear, he's finished. I figured and stopped replying

ReacherSaidNoth:
If it isn't the new resident religious section dumbass.

he's not new. He's old here with a new moniker. Dtruthspeaker is his old moniker

vdestro:
You obviously have never gone to court else you would have seen that most tenancy matters are based mosrly on oral evidence for those who have no tenancy agreement. Same for some crimes like sexual assault, defamation etc

And oral evidence is always personal.

And most people can always tell when a person is lying. That is one of the powers that people have.

Further, the absence of any reasonable or valid question is proof of Truth. For Truth is the absence of any reasonable or valid question, hence why The Law says. "There is no valid argument against the Truth "

ok

vdestro:
lets say the Truth DNA does not say man is a distant cousin with a chimpazee. Even ordinary reason shows that man and chimp share similarities but it is very very wrong to stretch it beyond similarity.

For by that connection, then we can foresee that DNA would also connect man to the crocodile, which would lead to lizard, which would lead to the monitor lizard which would lead to the snake. Which should also mean that hitler should be a distant cousin.

This clearly shows that this is a nonesense connection

jeez, I didn't get this earlier. You are the dtruthspeaker.

Bye dude 😂

ebubeson:
Is it good for believers in Christ to consider DNA testing in marriage ? If they are born again, is it not wrong on the part of the husband to consider doing DNA his children to ascertain their paternity?

it's baffles me how many of you trust that DNA test will confrim your paternity but this same DNA test is wrong when it's confirms that you are a distant cousin of chimpanzees.
You guys just choose whatever suits your belief system.

vdestro:
If you had learned about evidence you would see that 2 types of evidence are given in court at least. 1. Oral evidence (testimony) and 2. Documentary evidence in support or real evidence eg stone, knife, wound etc or other types of evidence.

in court, oral evidence are backed with pratctible evidence, else how do you know who's lying?
This is the purpose of investigation and forensics.

Therefore when a person is testifying he is already giving evidence.

It is a different thing whether the receiver of the evidence will use it or not. That part is at the full pleasure/displeasure of the receiver to accept or reject.

However, it does not change the fact that evidence has been given.

You guys keep mixing up your refusal to accept evidence as lack of evidence, whereas, evidence is evidence whether you accept it or not.

there's nothing like oral evidence.
You cannot rely on what people say to make conclusions, People lie and many are deluded.

It's why in court and science, you have to provide a testable evidence. You think judges are idiots that will just take you by your words?

Your testimonies are your personal stories if no one can verify them and it stays there.
Christians say many things that cannot be investigated, no one knows if you are lying or not and yet you want us to believe it. It doesn't work that way

XerXers:
Are you sure you what a KM is?

10,000 is too much. The distance from. Nigeria to South Africa by road is 6,500km

vdestro:
See your you dont know self. What are the people called by Obi and Atiku giving in court as evidence?

Testimonies is court are quite different from those in church.
Testimonies is court comes with evidence. Obi cannot just say INEC rigged the election because his agent testifies to it, he has to come with evidence to convince the court that has testimonies are true.

To prove that someone is a murder, you don't just bring someone to talk against him, you have to come with overwhelming evidence that this person actually is a murder, it's why forensics exist. But Christians just say anything thing they like and then expect everyone to believe them

wegevv:
I think you’ve misunderstood the general point of my message lol

I’m not trying to give you evidence that God exists. Maybe read what I wrote again. My first line pretty much admitted I can’t.

I’m saying that I believe faith is individual for everyone. I didn’t expect you to take what I wrote as conclusive evidence lol. That’s not how it’s meant to work. But you also can’t disprove the testimonies that many people have experienced first hand.

sincerely, I really do not think you can provide evidence either.

While I am aware that faith is prone to errors, it's okay for people to have faith. We can't all be the empirical guy, you know. So there's beauty in diversity.

I don't have to disprove testimonies, the fact that a pastor who claims to be so powerful cannot heal an amputee in a controlled environment says a lot. It's okay to have such beliefs, even if they are not true. Where we start having issues is if you try to make your faith the universal truth that everyone should be subjected to, we will stay asking you for the evidence at that point.

Have the faith, let it remain in your life. Don't make it a universal truth if you cannot prove it universally.

FxMasterz:
And a confirmation that you're incapable of grasping the truth that you can only find God when you search for Him.

what truth?

Show me the truth with evidence and I will agree with you

wegevv:
I’m not sure there is scientific all conclusive evidence that God exists. I don’t believe that is how God intended “faith” to work. There also isn’t scientific all conclusive evidence that God does not exist.

I don't think science can ever prove or disprove the existence of a god but science have disproven the existence of the "Christian version of God"

Now many Christians have their own personal encounters that is enough for them. Imagine experiencing what Paul is described to have experienced in the Bible. That would be enough individual evidence for many. It certainly was for Paul.

personal encounters are not reliable. Don't even depend on personal encounters as humans are not as reliable as you think. It is why the word "evidence" exist.

These testimonies are not enough to conclusively prove to everyone that God exists but they do encourage others who then go on to find their own individual experiences and faith. I’m sure you’ve heard many testimonies and while they obviously won’t prove anything to you try put yourself in that person’s shoes next time.

testimonies are not evidence, they are claims. I don't know how this is difficult to understand. If you tell me a story, it's a claim.

For me I’ve also found that the Bible is more correct about many things (inter gender relations, tolerance, attitude under subjugation, etc) than the mainstream ideology atheists tend to subscribe to. I used to buy into many liberal ideology (e.g. blank slate theory) that majority of atheist in the west subscribe to. But I’ve realised many of these are idealistic thinking not built on truth. And finding the truth has led me back to the scripture and God. Life makes a lot more sense now and I could not be happier

I agree with the bible on many things, but the foundation upon which Christianity is built upon which is the virgin birth of Jesus and the creation story is inconsistent with reality. Christians cannot provide evidence for it. As a matter of fact, several evidence suggest that those stories are false

Ultimately Christians can’t answer all the questions. Paul himself admitted in Corinthians that “we only see a reflection as in a mirror” and we only “know in part”. We don’t have all the answers and that’s okay. It’s not like science can either

Christians cannot even answer basic questions, not all questions.
Basic questions like virgin birth and evidence for simple miracles which they claim to be true

FxMasterz:
Ignorant rant.

lol

FxMasterz:
I was never sent to convert anybody. We were never given such assignment. You're an atheist or you think I don't know you?

So this is confirmation that you are incapable of proving your God outside of your head

FxMasterz:
Just as your atheism is your personal delusion. You claim God does not exist, yet you can't prove it. If you want to prove God, go prove Him in the Churches. Nairaland is not God's house, is it?

I'm not an atheist.
Just prove that your God exist and convert everyone else he exist only in your head

FxMasterz:
If you want to prove me wrong. You can go to a Bible believing church ọkay?

I don't care whether people believe what I wrote or not. It's not my concern. I'm just sharing my experience.

I know the bijle better than most Christians exepct from some of your pastors who use it to defraud you.

Trust me

FxMasterz:
I found God myself after serious searching and pursuit. No one did it for me. No one will do it for you okay?

Cheers.

So your God is your perosonal delusion.

At the end of the day, you have not been able to prove anything here even Wehn given several opportunities. You claim spiritual eyes but cannot see location, are you spirituallyy blind?

FxMasterz:
Why should I care?

Because you will prove me and other irreligious people reading this that you didn't make those shit up in your head and churches

FxMasterz:
The same way a physically blind man can't see the moon. That's the same way a spiritually blind man can't see God.

To see God, you must search Him out, then He'll reveal Himself to you. If you can't search out God, no one would do it for you.

okay, now use your spiritaul eyes to tell me my location.
Just prove me wrong, please

FxMasterz:
What concerns me whether you're converted or not. I was not sent to convert people. Only sent to tell me the truth. If they like they can choose to accept or reject. None of my business.

if a spiritual eyes exist and you cannot use it to tell me my location then it means you are also spiritually blind, of you are spiritually blind then how did you know that a spiritual eyes exist.

Prove me, tell me my full name if you have one

FxMasterz:
When the spiritual sight become the same thing as being omniscient? Am I God?

If you're spiritually blind, seek for your eyes to be open so you can have spiritual experiences. If you cannot do that, you'll have a lot of regrets when you die.

I'm not convinced that spiritual eyes exist until you ca use your own spiritual eyes to tell me my location.

FxMasterz:
The same way a physically blind man can't see the moon. That's the same way a spiritually blind man can't see God.

To see God, you must search Him out, then He'll reveal Himself to you. If you can't search out God, no one would do it for you.

I mean, telling me my exact location now will prove to me that the "spiritual eyes" of a thing is not another claim you people made up in your churches.

I'm giving you an opportunity to convert someone

FxMasterz:
The same way a physically blind man can't see the moon. That's the same way a spiritually blind man can't see God.

To see God, you must search Him out, then He'll reveal Himself to you. If you can't search out God, no one would do it for you.

okay, I'm spiritually blind abi?

Okay, I will agree with you that you are spiritually awaken and I am blind if you can tell me my address with your spiritual sight?

No excuses please, I want you to use your spiritual eyes and tell me my exact location. If you do that, I will accept that your God exist

FxMasterz:
If you don't care if the blind man believes the moon exists or not, why should I care whether you believe God exists or not. That's your own cup of tea.

the blind man analogy is a strawman that you intentionally conjured because of your lack of ability to provide evidence. We both know this.

You have to first prove to me that both cases are the same. A blind man has been proven to be blind, you need to prove to me that I am also blind because I think you re the blind person here

FxMasterz:
That's the same defective logic you atheists have that makes you walk in error. Each time you respond to my post, why must I always have to correct you regarding what I said?

Did I ever say billions of people following the Christian faith makes it right? I said you cannot call them unintelligent!

Go where the miracles are happening. If there's no evidence for spiritual realm, there'll be no such words as 'Spirirual' not 'Spirit' in the first place. Keep deceiving yourself.

I'm ready to show you evidences. Just tell me how you'll prove to a blind man that a moon exists. I don't want any distractive rants. Just tell me how you'll prove the moon to a blind man. Period.

the blind man and the moon analogy you brought up is a strawman.

If I tell you that Christian ls are not logically very sound, you will get triggered. Stay on the topic and prove your God into existence.

FxMasterz:
That's the same defective logic you atheists have that makes you walk in error. Each time you respond to my post, why must I always have to correct you regarding what I said?

Did I ever say billions of people following the Christian faith makes it right? I said you cannot call them unintelligent!

Go where the miracles are happening. If there's no evidence for spiritual realm, there'll be no such words as 'Spirirual' not 'Spirit' in the first place. Keep deceiving yourself.

I'm ready to show you evidences. Just tell me how you'll prove to a blind man that a moon exists. I don't want any distractive rants. Just tell me how you'll prove the moon to a blind man. Period.

I don't care if a blind man thinks the moon those not exist, I care to see the evidence for your God. Don't distract me with the blind man strawman.

Just give us evidence for your God else hes a figment of your imagination

FxMasterz:
That's the same defective logic you atheists have that makes you walk in error. Each time you respond to my post, why must I always have to correct you regarding what I said?

Did I ever say billions of people following the Christian faith makes it right? I said you cannot call them unintelligent!

Go where the miracles are happening. If there's no evidence for spiritual realm, there'll be no such words as 'Spirirual' not 'Spirit' in the first place. Keep deceiving yourself.

I'm ready to show you evidences. Just tell me how you'll prove to a blind man that a moon exists. I don't want any distractive rants. Just tell me how you'll prove the moon to a blind man. Period.

Why is so hard to just say, this is the evidence, test it this way?
All the miracle stories are false if they cannot be replicated under a controlled environment. I'm so sorry but coincidence and poor science knowledge of how the universe work is what most Christians call miracles.

Why is it so difficult for you to give me an evidence if truly your God exist?

FxMasterz:
I have personal evidence, that's why I'm telling you that I cannot deny my personal experiences in preference for defective logic. Who follows anything blindly without evidence? The fact that atheists believe we serve God without evidence is enough a reason to dismiss them as unintelligent people. How can anyone think so coindescendingly of billions of people who practice a faith? Among them are scientists and well accomplished individuals. Such a reasoning is absurd.

These are your claims.
The fact that billions of People are Christians does not mean that Christianity is right, It's called fallacy of appealing to population (ad populum). If I say most Christians are not intelligent now, you will become triggered.
You still need evidence even if everyone on earth is a Christian

The physical realm and spiritual realm are worlds apart. You can use the physical to prove the spiritual but you can see the influence of the spiritual in the physical. Such influences as Providence, nemesis, conscience and intuition, including universally accepted unwritten moral laws.

There's no evidence for spiritual realm, not a single one since 4 billion years, please show me one evidence for it

Now, if you want me to give you evidence for God, first explain to me how you'll prove to a blind man that a moon exists.

it's simple, just heal and amputee in a hospital. Even a blind man will be convinced that your God exist if you do that.
This is the usual excuse Christians give when they don't have evidence. We are not talking about blind man and moon here, we are talking about your God and his existence.

FxMasterz:
I have personal evidence, that's why I'm telling you that I cannot deny my personal experiences in preference for defective logic. Who follows anything blindly without evidence? The fact that atheists believe we serve God without evidence is enough a reason to dismiss them as unintelligent people. How can anyone think so coindescendingly of billions of people who practice a faith? Among them are scientists and well accomplished individuals. Such a reasoning is absurd.

The physical realm and spiritual realm are worlds apart. You can use the physical to prove the spiritual but you can see the influence of the spiritual in the physical. Such influences as Providence, nemesis, conscience and intuition, including universally accepted unwritten moral laws.

Now, if you want me to give you evidence for God, first explain to me how you'll prove to a blind man that a moon exists.

you have personal claims, not evidence.
Bring the evidence then tell us how we can test it

FxMasterz:
Are Revelation, visions, trances, etc the basis for intelligence? Did I ever say that? All I said is that Christians are behind most scientific discoveries and inventions, and yet you claim they're not intelligent!

Then you should act like intelligent Christians in science.
But majority of Christians are not intelligent enough, an intelligent person does not believe without evidence

Testimonies and encounters are not evidence, but overwhelming incidences from.numerius individuals should prompt a true seeker into deeper research.

So how's this evidence for your God?

You don't know everything that is there to know. The little knowledge you have is not enough to prove or disprove anything.

if I were you, I will just bring a real evidence for your God.

FxMasterz:
But if you're inteilligent as you want us to believe, you'll see that I didn't make a case for any existence of God. Rather I used those experiences of mine as possible evidences of the supernatural.

you don't have to be extremely intelligent to know that narratives like tesimtonies are not evidence. It's not how evidence works.
You don't need to be a guru doubt me if I say that I am Zeus and I am telling you that all you are saying is incorrect, a sane person who as for evidence before believing else every dick and Harry will have something to say.

Christians aren't intelligent, yet all the inventions of this world including the great scientists who made impact are majorly Christians. Keep deceiving yourself.

are you ready to show me anything invented by a Christian via revelation, testimonies and prayers. Show me a single in science invented by a Christian without a practicable evidence.

The matter isn't a matter of intelligence but encounters. You cannot ask me to deny my encounters because of your defective logic.

your encounter are your personal stories, whether or not is true I don't know but no sane person will take you seriously because you said it.

preciousee17:
Believe me, this is the biggest problem when talking to you all.
Open the Bible, read for yourself and you'll see the evidences. Or ask, "What is the evidence in the Bible that God actually performs miracles". And I'll refer you to the book of Matthew.
What is emotion and bias? I am only re-quoting a book as my evidence, and maybe I'll show you a public physical example once in a while, what other type do you need (be specific) because once you narrow down your description, I will narrow down the evidence.
And yes all our evidence repeat themselves in a controlled/uncontrolled environment,

I have read the Bible more than most Christians. I became irreligious because I took my time to dissect the Bible many times and I found that many things in it are inconsistent with the reality of life.

I was a devoted Christian for 27 years
You will agree with me that most Christians don't even know the Bible, they just accept the interpretations of their pastors.
There's no single evidence in the bible for God. If you want to discuss the Bible with me, you can be my guest.