₦airaland Forum

wegevv:
I mean if I wanted to be obtuse I could say that pictures is not enough empirical evidence that Isaac Newton existed. I mean Newton died in the 18th century and I understand the camera was only invented in the 19th century. So what you're seeing are drawings.

You could also say this about Robin hood and Kong Arthur.
But we can still find Isaac Newton family members in England and they still have a family house and even kept where Isaac lived. You cannot say that about Jesus.

Anyway I accept that all these people existed because there's no reason not to. Just showing you the natural extrapolation of your logic.

I don't think there's logic is comparing the existence of Isaac newton to that of Jesus Christ

wegevv:
I'm a Christian. I'd believe in Jesus even if the smartest people in the world concluded tomorrow that he never existed lol. You can make of that what you want but that's me. I'm a full on "Zombie" for Christ to use your own words lol.

sincerely, it's not a problem, as long as you draw inspiration from it. As long as you don't make it a fact that others must accept.

You've said you lean towards logic & science (unlike us zombies lol) but then said you "don't think such entity exist or ever existed" about Jesus and I'm saying that virtually all the smartest people in the world in the area of history agree that Jesus existed. Just like they do about Alexander the Great etc (I like that you didn't answer the question about the others lol)

Because you are saying this again does not mean that it's not a fallacy of appealing to authority. Tell those smart people to tell you the evidence so you can show me.

If you think it is "not nice" to tell you what the authorities in this area believe without providing evidence then I can only apologies. The internet is open to all though. I was only interested in offering that virtually all the authority in this area say Jesus existed.

do you think I have not searched the internet for evidence of Jesus?
If I saw one, then why am I still asking you?
If you think that I didn't search properly, you can refer me to link for one.

I've even admitted earlier that "I can't say your claim is objectively wrong" so not sure why you seem to be getting mad at me ❤️

I'm not getting mad my brother. It's just a friendly conversation.
Don't be defensive

wegevv:
Lol not "many". Virtually all who have studied it deeply.

It's nice to be on the side of authority for a change though as someone who believes in the virgin birth even though most authority in that area say it's not possible ever lol.

Do you believe Alexander the Great existed? William Shakespeare? Isaac Newton? ❤️

I don't know much about Alexander the great.
However, using Isaac Newton and William Shakespeare is a faulty equivalence, there are tonnes of evidence in form of pictures, their residence and even rooms that they both existed. None exist for Jesus.

The evidence for the existence of Jesus christ is equivalent to that of Robin hood. There's no evidence that both ever existed

wegevv:
Lol not "many". Virtually all who have studied it deeply.

So where is the evidence l, I will change my mind if you show me one

It's nice to be on the side of authority for a change though as someone who believes in the virgin birth even though most authority in that area say it's not possible ever lol.

Do you believe Alexander the Great existed? William Shakespeare? Isaac Newton? ❤️

it's not nice to follow authority without authority providing evidence. It makes one a zombie and that's why there's a fallacy specially created for it.
When referencing an authority, is important to bring the evidence this authority found. We need to start teaching religious people the basics of logic and reasoning

advanceDNA:
An atheist allowing jesus matter live rent free in his head....so much trouble over what does not exist

Does this prove that I understand the bible more than many Christians?
I don't believe because I have read it

According to the scriptures, it is not necessary to pay your "tithe" to a church. Scripturally, you decide how to pay your tithe, you also decide if you don't want to pay it. It all depends on whether you have faith in it or not.

The reason is because Tithing in the Bible are of two approaches, either by vowing to God that you will pay it (with reference to Abraham paying tithe to Melchizedek and Jacob in Genesis) or paying via the mosaic law in Deuteronomy 14.
And since we don't live by the law which suggest that you pay it to a levite (specifically, a person from the tribe of Levi), then you can take a cue from that of Abraham, who did it by vow (this is totally optional depending on your faith).
I believe that most churches cherrypick the laws of Moses into persuading members to pay it. It's understandable when they do that, because this is actually the major source of funds to run the church
However Galatian 3 vs 10-14 specifies that if you live by the law, you are bound to obey all part of the law. If you miss any, you are bound by the curses, it means that cherrypicking only tithe is tantamount to curses.

"10. Those who depend on obeying the Law live under a curse. For the scripture says, "Whoever does not always obey everything that is written in the book of the Law is under God's curse
11. Now, it is clear that no one is put right with God by means of the Law, because the scripture says, "Only the person who is put right with God through faith shall live."
12 But the Law has nothing to do with faith. Instead, as the scripture says, "Whoever [does] everything the Law requires will live."
13 But by becoming a curse for us Christ has redeemed us from the curse that the Law brings; for the scripture says, "Anyone who is hanged on a tree is under God's curse."
14 Christ did this in order that the blessing which God promised to Abraham might be given to the Gentiles by means of Christ Jesus, so that through faith we might receive the Spirit promised by God."

So try to pay your tithe through faith and not through the law given to the children of Isreal for we are not bound by those laws. And if you don't have faith in tithe, don't pay it.


Even Jesus Christ made it clear Matthew 23: 23 and 24 that Tithe is not the most consequential thing for a Christian. It doesn't have much weight
Matthew 23:23-24 New King James Version (NKJV)
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

So as a Christian, Jesus christ is really not interested in your tithe. He's interests in Justice, Mercy and "faith".

In conclusion, so whether you want to pay it or not, or you want to pay it to your church or individuals, it's not so important to Jesus. What matters is whether you have faith. If you have faith that paying it to individuals is what works for you, go on. Don't pay it if you don't have faith in it enough to make that vow.

wegevv:
You can choose to believe he didn’t exist, it’s your right . But again, there is extremely strong consensus among historical scholars that Jesus existed in person. To say it’s debatable is just not an accurate description of the status quo among historians. To deny that he ever existed is to also deny much of human history for lack of “evidence” because research in this area kind of has to work differently.

yes, the existence of Jesus Christ is subject to believe and not a matter of fact and evidence.
Because many historians think that he exist does not mean he does if they don't give evidence, let's not commit fallacy of appealing to authority.

That’s why I didn’t say your claim is objectively wrong but instead said it’s not very pro-scientism (or maybe pro-academia is more appropriate). Again there are many ways to bash Christianity but this isn’t one of them ❤️

Academia doesn't mean in science.
There's no empirical evidence that Jesus exist, it's unscientific for me to think he does.

wegevv:
Workch you can’t claim to be pro-scientific research and then say “I don't think such entity exist or ever existed as there are no sufficient evidence to make such verdict” about Jesus.

please can you give me the evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed that I can test or has been tested to be true?

There is strong consensus from non-religious historians about Jesus existing and how he died. You can bash Christianity while sticking to the facts lol.

it's still very debatable within historians and again, historians do not have any evidence in form of manuscript or archeological artifacts to prove the existence of Jesus. If you have any, show me.

Anyway thank you for your honest answer about Christ. Christians indeed should all try to be Christ-like but none of us are perfect ❤️

you don't need to be a Christian to live a pristine life like Christ as described in the Bible. It's a lifr that can be lived even as an atheist, you just need to be humane

MightySparrow:
Okay, I appreciate that. Christ exists. All things seemingly revolve around him for some and actually for us Christians. You see , his teachings are like a constitution of a country. They are the ideals we all should keep to check excesses. There are some of us either by zeal or ignorance or knowledge, we want to act with pride our believe. We are still human.

Nonetheless, Jesus' teachings have shapen and built many great countries. These nations also have not obeyed 100% but at least better than ours. In summary, forgive our excesses. I will like to say like Paul in chains in front of a king who held similar view as yours. " I would like you to be like me except in these chains..."

Since Christ exists, I would love you are part of us without our excesses. I dó love you with the love of Christ.
Cheers brother.

like I said, I don't think there's enough evidence to conclude that a personality called Christ ever existed, I don't want to dwell on that as that's a claim that shapes the belief system of Christians.
But if you talk about his attributes and character as described by the Bible, it's wirht emulating.

You can make any conclusion to me on the basis of christ existence, there's no evidence such a person exist.

MightySparrow:
What do you dislike about Christ?

I do not dislike christ, I don't think such entity exist or ever existed as there are no sufficient evidence to make such verdict. Irrespective of this, the teachings of Christ in the Bible is worth emulating and this world would be a better place if Christians can actually be Christ-like, but in reality they are not.

I don't dislike christians either, I dislike some of their behaviors

hisgrace090:
Things are acceptable by us if its allowed by the book "bible" God gave men wisdom to pursue science and satan gave men wrong wisdom to pursue dangerouse science to work against God.

This is exactly what I pointed out in the original post.

1.The have this moral superiority complex in them. You can see this with the missionaries who goes house to house to spread their religion. They always think that they know everything and their little pretty holy book has answers to everything. They think that the whole world should revolve around this book and the book should dictate how everyone live their lives including government policies.

2. They Disrespect other people's beliefs. You can see this in the missionaries who goes house to house to spread this religion. As soon as they see a Muslim, traditionalist or irreligious, they will immediate say we are here to safe you from hell fire. This itself is a very rude and what is worst they even claim the respective deities or rituals as Satan and satanic. Their lack of knowledge of a particular culture and practice and their intolerance in them makes them say this.

3.They are not pro science, the orthodox churches are a little more proscience than the pentecostal churches. The pentecostal churches as a matter of fact are running a deliberate anti-science campaign. They get triggered when they confront irreligious people and at first they try to show how science and Bible gets along well. As soon as you point them out one by one, they will play gymnastic and twist and turn and also cherry picking a few worlds to suit science. When you debunk all of it, they will claim that not everything in science are proven and most scientific theories are just theories and not a proven fact. This makes me laugh, as they don't even know what is a scientific theory means.

4. They are Over defensive. Well this is very much present in all religious people but Christian and Muslims tend to be extremely defensive and denial. Esp when it comes to the basic logic in the Bible.

5. Hypocrites. Yes, they are the most hypocrite people, they critise other religion and yet they can't stand a simple criticism.

6. Cheap behaviour/ religion business. Yes, they normally target the poor people and in the name of charity they try to convert the poor people. Charity is never done sincerely and its more of a religious and business purpose. What is worst, there are several cases where they convert people uneducated ones without their knowledge. This happens widely in rural area in Africa and India.

HellVictorinho6:
yeah,we cant dwell on that,but ur children will make u talk about it.

Well, I won't stop my children from going to church with her. The thing is, I will always tell them to be rational in everything they do including religious choices.
Going to church will help them see the flaws in religion, so it will make sense when I start coaching them on how not to be irrational.

HellVictorinho6:
how do u feel when ur fiance says u are an evidence of god?

she doesn't say that. If she does then I will just laugh and let it go.

frank317:
Of course it's not a religion, its a scam.

They call it a relationship with God and Jesus. This relationship requires praying, fasting, and going to worship centers and trying to serve a supposedly creator of the world (creator of the world... isnt that laughable?). Same thing every religion does.

My question is, how in the world do these people feel they are communicating to the creator of this world and not feel insane?

Imagine u have access to be the son or have relationship with common Tinubu or Dangote, u sure will feel this relationship, no need to convince anyone... people will naturally flock around you. how much more have relationship with the creator of this world who supposedly loves you unconditionally and wants the best for you. Yet you are here running round and round trying to prove him...

The creator of this world with multiple planets that has existed for billions of years is ur father and common fuel subsidy removal or Covid 19 is getting u to run helter skelter.. SMH. let's keep deceiving ourselves.

lol, funny guy. You are a comedian

helinues:
At least I have seen initiative of different km roads all made it on NL Fp

Have you not been seeing threads about development in Anambra stat

Nope I haven't been seeing what Soludo is doing.

helinues:
Here we go, just because of politics, they wouldn't mind to create a dent history thread about their opponents, same thing hunting Peter Obi today.

I don't know if some of una no dey reason things through before rushing to post online. Those who attacked Gov Soludo unnecessary during the election would have the opportunity to vent their anger with no basis.

Hian

I genuinely want to know what Soludo is doing

More than a year now, nothing to write home about.

What's he doing?

What's Soludo even doing in Anambra state?

Initial gra gra 🤣
Na today we dey hear this one?

Bizzyman:
Are you the only you? Is there another you?

Jesus didn't start any religion. He is the way and and ask humans to follow his way to meet God.

Same way Adam was the first man but lost connection with God. Jesus came to reconnect us back to God by being the way.

If you looking for religion, you will get lost. Jesus is the bridge between man and God. Enter the bridge, walk and meet God.

While at it, be holy for God is Holy and without holiness, no man can see God.

End of story.

So Christianity is not a religion 😂

Rhema04:
Lol...

Maybe maybe not

You just have to agree that the holy spirit did it

[quote author=wegevv post=124051599]I have similar issues with fellow Christians on this side. I believe it’s okay to encourage other Christian’s to live Christ-like lives but for those who aren’t saved that really shouldn’t be a focus at all because ultimately the Bible says you can’t be saved by works alone. Focusing on the sins of non-believers is kinda pointless because even if they stopped sinning entirely but still don’t believe then they still aren’t saved.

good

[quote]Christians do have a duty to spread the gospel though but I believe that is through their lives, testimonies and prayers rather than judgement and focusing on the “bad behaviours” of non-believers

Well, that duty is why you will have to come with evidence or get backlash. Many people won't just take your words for it.

I disagree, I believe Christianity is the most fundamentally sound religion but I’m obviously biased. Even putting my personal conviction aside, I’m convinced you’re underrating how hard it would be to disprove the existence of the God that Christian’s believe in, as well as Jesus who Christian’s believe is God and is the only way to salvation.

I dont expect any religious person not to believe that his or her own religion is not the most fundamentally sound, is that not why you are practicing that religion in the first place? Some people from sokoto even kill to make that point clear

I agree some Christians can be judgemental and it’s really not useful at all because like stated earlier there is really no reason to be judgemental or try to control the behaviour of those that don’t believe. That alone won’t save them according to scripture anyway so it’s pointless and the wrong angle to take. But I believe irreligious people pick on Christianity because it’s the most fundamentally sound and that tendency also fulfills what scripture says about persecution being part of the Christian experience but I don’t expect you to buy into that if you’re not a believer

Irreligious people will always pick on Christians because Christians don't stay in their spaces. Your duty to always evangelize means that you will be picked on many times. It's simple logic. Christianity are the most vocal religion in the world all in the name of evangelism.
Christians also make more bogus claims than all other religions in terms of miracles, prophesies and revelations. They make these claims so boldly without evidence.

That’s simply because scripture encourages Christian’s to spread the word to the ends of the earth. If you can accept that Christian’s truly believe that all men have sinned and falling short of the glory of God and that Jesus is the only way to salvation then you can appreciate why they would want to share this message to the people they love and care about.

we are saying the same thing, this is why you are getting so much bashing from irreligious people. If you must preach, come with evidence or don't spread it.
Some people will not listen until you provide evidence.

So while I don’t think it’s helpful for Christian’s to try to force non-believers to live their lives in a certain way, they are certainly expected to share the gospel i.e. the story of how man fell from grace with God and how Jesus was sent to save us. They will also inadvertently share why they believe this (their individual testimony)

many Christians don't know when to stop. Seriously

If you don’t believe any of it then I can see why it would be annoying. It’s as annoying as pro-vaccine people pushing the jab on anti-vaxxers (I’m not taking a side on the vaccine here lol just an example). Ultimately we all have to tolerate each other ❤️

All my family members are Christians, I tolerate them.
My fiancé is a Christian, she understands that I don't believe in all these things. It's just my dad that doesn't seem to understand why I am this way but I have always respectfully told him that he should allow me live my life.
Many times my cousins will try to preach to me, I just allow them talk and then tell them okay because I don't want to argue. They always think they are right and it's usually funny.

Bizzyman:
Jesus is not one of the ways. Jesus is the only way. Same way God, The father of the Lord Jesus Christ, is the only God and only Jesus is the way to him.

Any god you meet without going through the way, Jesus Christ, is an idol or Satan disguising as an angel of light...

Satan is a scammer, very cunning and subtle. That's how he deceive Adam and Eve and still deceiving people today...

Don't let Satan deceive you by telling you that you can find God without going through the way, Jesus Christ.

As for those titles you mentioned, forget titles. Many prophets,prophetess, pastors and GOs will be rejected on the last day because they are evil doers in secret but appear holy in public.

Jesus is the only way, so Christianity out of 2000 religion is the only true religion?

Rhema04:
Yes

what if the holy spirit did it?

pyyxxaro:
That’s IMMACULATE 🙌🏿


Na BLUETOOTH e use give am the belle

are you a Christian?

Rhema04:
Inside life... ah ah

Orisirisi

are you a Christian?

Lol, oshey, Mary the mother of Jesus

preciousee17:
Okay. Noted

So you believe first and the search for evidence later.

Go read up on confirmation bias.

LordReed:
Most likely they will shift the goal post.

he already did

LordReed:
I didn't ask for hypothetical or imaginary example, I want a practical demonstration in a controlled environment.

simple, I will be convinced as well if anyone can do this

preciousee17:
Don't worry, my argument with you just ended 😂
You mean a Prophet tells you that the Euphrates River will dry, thousands of years ago. And now the Euphrates River has suddenly dried up. But for you, that's not an evidence that the prophet is legit? It's only claims...
Happy hunting!

lol, you still don't know how to find evidence. It's not how evidence works.

Don't be gullible