₦airaland Forum

Aegerine:
The word used in that the verse is "Jibala" which is the plural form of mountain. (mountains). "Jabal" is the singular (mountain).

Therefore you are one bringing in your own understanding of weathering which does not apply in this context. I have no need of delving into tafsir to understand a basic concept as this.

In the light of this, what you quoted stand valid still

Well, whether mountains or mountain. it is still clear the verse is talking about the mountain as peg which may be translated as somthing that stabilise something. but crust is never stable na. it is in constant motion and vulnerable to earthquake depending on the region.

we can argue what peg also mean. does it mean mountain are sent down as peg (based on the linguistic meaning of the peg). I dont want to drag it too much.

I understand that we both have our biases and your wish will be to prove that quran support the geologic fact. but we cant read our meaning to a vague verse.

anyway, bring another verse, let's move on

mhmsadyq:
Good you made the correction.

The problem with engagements like this is that you have made up your mind about Islam and will find faults in everything. While i have made up my mind to see the beauties of Islam.

There can be no meeting point.
Lets just agree to disagree.

"UNTO YOU YOUR RELIGION. UNTO ME, MY RELIGION."

I agree with you. now let us reason together

It is clear that a christian or any other religion adherents always makes up their mind to defend their faith (usually the religion they were born into). This is a natural biase to most people and only very few people are able to break away from this bias and think freely out of their indoctrination. so if allah judge people based on the religion they were born into, I dont think that is fair.

GOD SHOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE PEOPLE THE SAME FAIR CHANCE IF HE IS JUST. THUS I CONCLUDE THAT RELIGION IS HUMAN INVENTION, NOTHING RELATED TO GOD

. X.

I am investing my time on this thread the same way I did on the thread titled why I left islam which was later removed by unknown moderator. I would not be happy if any moderator remove this thread too. I dont know why such moderator is so insecure about his religion

Aegerine:
Which civilization spoke about it before the revelations? I want to learn pls. As a geologist, I am aware that it takes the development of sophisticated geophysical techniques few decades ago to understand the concept of mountain roots which that verse and other similar verses were giving hints about centuries ago.


Your two objections successfully debunked

christian bible came before quran. check out these verses that mention similar thing

Psalm 18:7 The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because he was angry.

Job 28:9 : People assault the flinty rock with their hands and lay bare the roots of the mountains.

I also read some stuff about greek or roman civilization regarding this issue and the issue of earth and heaven being together before they were splitted. unfortunatrly I can;t see the reference at the moment so we can coencentrate on the one I gave from the bible.

Muslim argument regarding similarity in the bible is not unknown. ALLAH also reveal the bible so anything that is similar is because it is from the same author but anyting difference is because of the curruption of the bible. I disagree with this.

However, let us concentrate on the validity of the meaning of the verse. whether tafseer and hadith infer the meaning you are giving to the verse[. and whether it is actually inline with the modern geological understanding

Aegerine:
.

The stability referred to in that verse is permanent till the day that Allah decide to overturn this earth. [b]That is the reason why the crust is still stable [/b]beneath you till this point despite is thinness relative to the mantle and core combined.




Your two objections successfully debunked

what do you mean by the stability of the crust? kindly define what stability mean inthis context

motayoayinde:
THE BIGGEST STABILIZING ENTITY OF OUR PLANET IS A SYSTEM OF MOUNTAINS BENEATH THE OCEAN.

IT'S CALLED THE MID RIDGE MOUNTAIN SYSTEM.

IT RUNS FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF KILOMETRES ACROSS DIFFERENT CONTINENTS.

I'M NO GEOLOGIST, JUST HERE TO SUPPORT MY BROTHER.

dont start I support bla bla stuff on this thread. we are here to educate ourselves irrespective of what you belive. I know no one is free from biase, but try to minimise it

Aegerine:
When the Qur'an refers to mountains as pegs, it is not just talking about an individual mountains in solitary, but rather all the entire networks of mountains that define the architecture of the earth's surface..

Therefore, the Idea of the loss in stability of the earth surface due to the wearing off of an individual mountain is inconsistent with logical reasoning. Mountains are the greatest illustrations of stability on the face of the earth. How then could it be possible that the destruction of a mountain which is equally been cancelled by the formations of others can translate to mean temporary stability.

The stability referred to in that verse is permanent till the day that Allah decide to overturn this earth. That is the reason why the crust is still stable beneath you till this point despite is thinness relative to the mantle and core combined.




Your two objections successfully debunked

any evidencet from islamic tradition to support this claim?

i want us to be as honest as possible. I dont care if there is a verse that support geological phenomenom, but lets stick y to our methodology without reading our own meaning into the quran. perhaps you may quote the tafsir of the verse to support your claim

And the mountain as peg. The verse you quoted.

It is in agreement with our understanding of today's geology.

However, it is not 100% correct. Although civilization before Muhammad know about this phenomenon (reference coming).

Mountains are formed due to the eruption of magma usually at convergent plate boundary. These mountain stabilise the crust temporarily (thousands or millions of years) until the mountain develops faults and other structures that may lead to another earthquake especially if it is close to the plate boundary.

My points here are two

1. Civilization knew this before Muhammad

2. It is not 100% correct that mountain stabilise the crust permanently as suggested by the verse quoted

Aegerine:
I pray that this proof beneficial to you, me and every other observers. Your proposal is fine to work with

Which verse shall we start with ?

I suggest Qur'an 78 vs 7

I didn't forget the evidence you requested yesterday. I think I've once quoted on nairaland but I will find it. Just kinda busy ni.

mhmsadyq:
What do you mean by authentic Muslim?
Who/What made you authentic?

I think you over reached yourself in the sight of Allah and Allah left you to yourself. Who you are today is the consequence.

As a former Islamic scholar, you should know what Islam says about Pride, Arrogance, humility, knowledge and how they affect iman.

ad hominem fallacy.

For the record I was never a scholar. I was just ordinary Muslim but my knowledge of Islam surpase average Muslims

While we're at it. I've gotten not less than 7 new followers since yesterday. I have received an email message from here. It shows that some Muslims are also having doubt but are too afraid to even think of leaving the religion.

Well, I'm not gonna anything from your apostacy. What I'm after is for you guys to know that Islam is not 100 percent truth and stop supporting the dangerous teachings that comes with Islam.

I don't care about the religion anyone is indoctrinated into. But don't tell us it is a conscious decision that you made out of your own volition.

You guys love to ask people the reason why they leave Islam but most of you don't even know the reason why you are a Muslim.

Most of you believe that you can really on your brain. So what is it that convince you that Islam is the way outside your brain.

Keep the answer coming

biotechshola:
there you go... Always resulting to insults. What made you leave?? Very simple!!

was that what you asked earlier? Anyway, tell me why you are a Muslim. Let's start from there.

I would like us to define our approach/methology first.

My proposal. For a verse to be considered a scientific fact. It must pass these tests.

1. No civilization ever mentioned it before Qur'an

2. Muhammad never travel to any civilization that says similar thing in the past

3. It must be explicit (self explanatory) and not generic

4. Early scholars must interpret it to mean what we're infering

What do you think about this proposal. Any ammendment?

Aegerine discussing geologic verses with xmuslim

NeoWanZaeed:
Like I said, when you die.. Wa mo how far. Am sure you will remember this moment

Snap out of it. Your believe is based on the fear of hell fire. Poor you

NeoWanZaeed:
Even in the so called bible.. Although its written by unknown authors.. Its there.. Blasphemy and apostacy is death..

and who told you I give a fvck about Christianity

mhmsadyq:
Well, I am still working on my Islam and Iman.
Though i have no doubt about Islam.

It might be beyond me to say if you were just a common muslim and moreso i dont know you in person. But if you truly did all you said and ended up astray, then something was definitely wrong with you imam from go... You gave in to shaitan. Allahu Akbar!

How about your wife?

wrong assumption at bolded. Muslim will say the shame about you the moment you realise the lies in Islam. I have said more than that to people when I was a Muslim. I usually thought no authentic Muslim could leave Islam

k4kenny:
.

Lies. Mention one verse if the Qur'an to validate your point. No verse in the Qur'an prescribes unwarranted killings of the innocent.

Q2:190- And fight for the sake of Allah those who fight you and do not transgress. Indeed Allah does not love those who transgress.

don't worry. We'll have a long discussion. Meet me on the thread dedicated to you and I. Ready for some strange verses you never expected to see in the Qur'an and ready for dangerous authentic hadith. You agree with authentic hadith I suppose.

Aegerine:
Which institution did you graduate from.

In all honesty devoid of all forms of insults, I am hopeful that you can be helped. Your case is not that bad.

Can we relate off NL?

I want to help you not the other way round.

...

k4kenny:
Oga from your responses, you were either a non practicing Muslim or not a Muslim at all.

What kind of deep Muslim would make the blunder in Surah 74, (and above them 16 Abi?). I refuse to believe that was a typo.

A serious Muslim who still refers to 72 virgins found nowhere in the Qur'an, which has been repeatedly debunked by scholars.

Believes Islam promotes pedophilia. Didn't you study the seerah during your years as a 'serious Muslim'?

Believes the Qur'an promotes indiscriminate killings. Didn't you converse with scholars during your days as a 'serious Muslim'

Believes Islam can be forced. A serious right thinking Muslim would know Allah accept deeds based on sincerity of intentions.

I could go on. There's nothing you can post to convince me you were a deeply serious Muslim. We know your type. Lots of fake ex Muslims telling us how deeply Islamic they were yet we keep seeing loopholes in their stories.

I will open a thread where I will have a deeper discussion with you on those topics

gaskiyamagana:
Sharap, Shatap.
Honeyous, honey coated lie

lol! You are even a disgrace to your Qur'an. Because quran encourage you to find out the truth before you conclude. Be guided. I'm sure you are one of those Muslims that do all the haram. You have girlfriend I suppose. Snap out of illusion. Research Islam from those that criticise Islam and answer the big questions against Islam before coming out to claim guidance.

Hertheywarlay:
ALHAM'DULILLAH. I'm very happy that I'm Muslim.
To Xmuslim, sir try to think deeply and know the blessing of God(Allah) on you. He(Allah) says :يعرفون نعمت الله ثم ينكرونها وأكثرهم الكافرون
Qur'han16vs 83

And to you my Muslim brothers and sisters let's be humble. It is not our power or knowledge to be guided) but by the wish of Almighty Allah.
Like we will be be saying(by God grace) in paradise that(الحمد لله الذي هدانا لهاذا وما كنا لنهتدي لولا أن هدانا الله) Qur'han 7vs43

lol! Again say it's indoctrination. If it's not your power to be guided. It means your Allah choses some to be duided and misled others. Stop the emotional play. Islam has failed common sense logic. It fails moral test. It fail scientific test.

Dtruthspeaker:
Can a laptop or a phone subject you to its intellect, science and moral tests?

Or shall a primary school student be able to give a valid test to undergraduate?

So also, no man is qualified to test his Greater and his Superior!

by your logic, human can use his brain to test scripture. So, how did you know that your Bible is from God and Qur'an is not from God. Answer this question without using your intellect

To the Muslims coming here.

My response would be complex because I have passed through the Islamic indoctrination.

But for now my response to sunni Muslim would be this. I can't follow a religion that kill people that commit blasphemy and those that decide to leave the religion. Even if no Muslim countries practice this barbaric act, the fact that it is mentioned in an authentic Hadiths is a big blow to the sunni Muslims.

To the Christians that are coming here.

My response to you is simple. I can't agree to the concept of original sin. It negate fairness. How can I be responsible for the sin Adam(if he ever existed) committed. Thus I don't need any jesus to die for my sin (which I never committed).

God should have the power to forgive Adam without extending the sin to his children and then demand that his son (who is also a god) be killed before he would forgive humanity.

That theory can never sink in my brain

NeoWanZaeed:
When you die.. You will know how far..

Lol

how can a sincere human be afraid of a fair god (if he exist).

If I'm sure of a religion that God want from me, I will not be non religious.

I'm sorry I can't rely on bad evidence just because I'm afraid of after death.

I can't be threatened by imaginary hell fire. God should not be that petty

solite3:
Every trader that sells soap says theirs is the best, therefore soap does not exist.
.... Atheist logic

Every internet fraudsters I have seen are mostly Nigerians therefore, there are no honest Nigerians.
.. Atheist logic.

I'll leave atheist to answer you. For me, no religion has passed intellectual, scientific and moral test so far. And I have a feeling that religion is not needed since it doesn't benefit God. Moral values should be enough to please God (if he exist).

Sheunma:
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers.” (Quran 3:85).

jesus is the way bla bla to the end of the verse. Every religion will bring his own claims. What makes you think yours is the correct one?