₦airaland Forum

biotechshola:
The truth of Islam is so clear even for the blind to see... I'm a Muslim because it's the only true religion from God

so clear that there are MORE Christians in the world. Right?

And mind you, you are a Muslim because you were born into it. But you aren't AWARE when the indoctrination was going on. Now parmnaent damage has been done to the way you view the World. It will take high intelligent for you to view the world without the lense of your religion.

If you want to be sure. Don't indoctrinate your children and let them study many religions and chose their favourite.

It is funny that Muslim claim that islam is very clear, yet they are unsecure to the extent that they are commanded by Muhammad to flog their children that doesn't observe solat ritual. Does that make sense to you.

Muhammad also commanded you to kill blasphemers and apostate. Does that make sense? Or you are hearing this for the first time?

TRUTH DOES NOT REQIRE FORCE

Enough said. I can't reply all your erroneous claims. Enjoy your delusion and the brothel paradise Muhammad promised you in advance

The most funniest part is the rainbow mountain you brought and supported it with another unrelated verse.

Even if the verse mentioned rainbow Mountain, it is nothing fantabulous. If such mountain is not in Saudi, Muhammad and his people travelled a lot, they could have seen similar rock or heard of it from other traders.

Why are you fighting hard to prove that Qur'an is scientifically correct when even learned Muslim scholars have widthraw from this endeavour. It is a rabbit hole my friend. By the time you started seeing verse that clearly contradict science, you will start saying SCIENCE CAN CHANGE or what would you say.

Let me give you one that comes to mind. Qur'an claim that sún set into a mucky mud and hadith also expantiate this. Tell me which of the muds? The sun that is stationary.

Now to finally burst your burble. The author of the Qur'an does not understand how the earth works at all.

Mountains are usually formed at the convergent zones when oceanic plate get subdued under continental plate. Why was the earth not shaking before the formation of that particular mountain? So saying mountain is the sole reason why the crust seems stable (not shaking like minor earthquake) is not correct.

There are many reasons why there is no random tremor everywhere all the time. Part of it is the balance maintained by the crust itself by complementing the weight all over. Mountain formation is only a part of what temporarily stop the tremor or bigger shaking of the crust crust.

How can you expect me to take your vague verse as a perfect explanation for all these. All these write up are from my head and I'm sure I can't remember everything about geology. What if I open book about it and dig deep. Perhaps your verse would even lost relevancy totally in this aspect of mountain and crust stability

Aegerine:
.

again all your points are imagnaries and according to the meaning you are reading into the Qur'an. I agree that the verse seems scientific but not 100%. Why can't your Qur'an be extremely perfect in it claim. Why is it so verge that anyone can read any meaning into it.

As a geologist you should know that crust is never stable. Claiming peg or whatever is it that Qur'an mention is the perfect description of the relationship between mountain and crust is a fallacy. I still challenge you to bring scientific write up from science source that support your claim.

Go and read the theory of isostasy again. I over hyped you. Was thinking you were going to showcase your geology knowledge, little did I know that your geology knowledge is from Islamic blogs.

I asked you several questions which you successfully ignored. I asked you to describe what you mean by stability. You ignored it. I asked you if the mountain moves or static. How can you say something that's moving is a peg and you are claiming this is 100% perfect description? Why are you intellectually dishonest just to support Qur'an.

my last advice for you is this. Stop learning your science from Islamic blog. It will mislead your scientific understanding. Don't take this advice lightly.

Dtruthspeaker:
after traveling from Place to Place like Satan, seeking a place to rest your tired feet First From Atheist to absolute absence of atheism to your personal speaking of blasphemies to the absolute absence of blasphemies again to reversing myself TO NOW KILLING, therefore, the matter is settled then and I draw the curtain on this performance.

Till we meet again!

whatever you do, don't kill. Even if you think someone is possessed with evil spirit, don't kill him. Nice day! Pray for us when you reach church

@Kennitrust first, I'm agnostic freethinker humanist. So I don't know whether God exist or not and I don't argue it. I wish he exist though (but I can't defend it in front of atheist, so I would rather keep shut on that matter)

Secondly, let's assume almighty God exist. Why would he create the entire universe and place people on the planet earth just so they should have a particular believe (which is difficult to identify due to many inconsistencies in the scriptures of those religions). And that God who is described as a loving God would cast people with the wrong belief (regardless of their good conduct) in eternal hell fire.

IT IS A FALLACY UNLESS THE GOD IS NOT MERCIFUL.

Kennitrust:
Hmmm. Man!

What is the overall purpose of life?

What?

To live a life of begging to live?

Few days on earth and countless days in a supposed hellfire

You are not given up 100yrs to live but you will be given 1000yrs to suffer. Lol.

So many questions of the purpose of life keep riding my mind.

Living in fear of the unknown on earth and living in fear of the unknown in dead.

What is the overall purpose of life?

you are one of the reasons why some freethinkers (like me) exist. Fear not. I was once in your shoes. Just do good and forget about eternal hell. If you like religion, do it moderately. If you don't like it, leave it. God isn't petty.

I will post something soon...

Here you go...

Xmuslim:
I will start:

1. I dislike the fact that Islam claims that every non-Muslims will enter hell fire forever. If they did good, their reward is in this dunya (life), but nothing in the hereafter. I always cry whenever I recited verses that talk about those stuffs. I didn't like that idea but I had to let go my desire and accept Allah judgement. I had to accept that Allah is fair, even though that act seems unfair

2. I wished Allah didn't allow bible to undergone curruption. Abrahamic religion would have been more united if the curruption didn't take place. But since quran and hadith insist that Bible had been currpted. I had to let go my wish. As usual, I concluded that Allah knows best.

3. I wished Allah didn't allow Islam to split into 73 I think. The hadith says all will enter hell except one. I don't like the fact that Qur'an and hadith describe God as a being that seems wicked. But as usual, I killed the thinking by saying Allah knows best.

4. I didn't like the fact that Allah gave us a book that is not very clear. Qur'an says some verses are ambiguous and those with sickness in their mind will be Misled by those verses. Again, I said to myself Allah knows best.

Let me stop for now.

Any time the thought of those things I didn't like about the God I was worshiping came to my mind and lasted a few hours. I undergone depression. I wished I was never born into this life. I thought of suicide when I was a Muslim because of these problems.

I saw this life as the most pathetic place for human since most of them would end in hell for eternity. I didn't commit the suicide for some reasons part of which is the hadith that says one will continue to commit the suicide in hell for eternity

Sponge3:
U forgot to thank him/it for covid and millions of children who die from starvation every day. Or he is not responsible for that too?

this is blasphemy

domino4211:
Efforts without prayers are effective 80-90% of the time..
What then is the relevance of prayers

I have said it nemerous time that prayers aren't answered. I created a thread on this issue. No single evidence to support the claim.

But it gives people hope. when they pray, they believe it will be answered.

I don't have issues with people that work hard and also pray hard. I respect their right to their believes.

iamdannyfc:
please don't open up your identity to anyone here, not until you are 100% sure they are harmless.

I know right? Thanks. I remain anonymous.

Muslims will be the one to say Islam is peace and tolerant online. The will say no compulsion in religion online. But offline, they will attempt your life because you left their blood thirsty religion. Indoctrination is really bad.

mujahid777:
How is this a central belief of Islam
Is believing in the blasphemy or apostasy laws a requirement to becoming Muslim?
You'll even find a difference in opinion existing in scholarly circles about the laws.
How many people have actually been executed for blasphemy or apostasy in Islam?
Wether it's true or not,this argument of yours is an emotional rather than a logical one.

keep denying what sahih hadith brought and await the hell fire of your Allah.

Even if it is a non compulsory act. The fact that your Allah inspire your Muhammad to teach such barbaric act speaks volume about him and his religion

Aegerine:
No point going any further with you. I deemed that a waste of time as your close mindedness rose to the heaven. You are only out to waste my time with nothing to offer

Tell me in which of your field work you came across mountains of such colours.

On the mountains as pegs issues, your attempt at discrediting it would hold only if you can proof that mountains roots do not exist. I think you have difficulties in comprehending what a peg is.

Renowned earth scientists regardless of their believes have attested to that. I can only marvel at how much important you think that you are to disproof that .

Peace out.

your knowledge of geology is flawed. You are only copying from Islamic blogs.

You keep repeating mountain as peg as if there is a general geologic conclusion that without mountains crust will collapse.

I challenge you to bring an evidence from geologic text (not Islamic blog) that support your claim. You keep going to those blogs looking imaginary miracles. Lol. The verse is vague but you keep breathing your own meaning into it.

On the second point. I now realise that I have wasted my precious time on you. As a geologist, you have never seen rocks with different shades from very dark, to very light, to pink and so on. You have never seen pegmatite vein. How is what is observable in the Arabian anywhere a miracle. You and your Islamic blogs quickly put your words in Allah's mouth and claim he mentioned rainbow Mountain. Can't the author of the Qur'an mention rainbow Mountain if that is what he intend.

Your cowardice and lack of geologic knowledge is outstanding. So it's these two points that you claim are geologic miracles of your sọ called Qur'an? Seek more knowledge outside Islamic blog bro

Aegerine:
Be sincere to yourself. How much do you know about rainbow mountains even as a present day geologist?

I see no need to waste time on this as your reaction is as I had expected. On the surface, it doesn't look much of a scientific discovery, but you cannot a water down the fact that such geological information at that time can never be tied to a guess work

You can as well point out supposed similar information in the bible as you did with the first since you claimed that the Qur'an is copied from there.

By the way, help yourself with these on both issues arising so far:


https://www.google.com/url?q=https://medium.com/%40Marytn/mountains-in-quran-8893ab543d72&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiwu7Gt0-PrAhVRsaQKHQmGD8IQFjAMegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0aca3wzqJvYY0S815grs5p


https://www.google.com/url?q=https://lifeinsaudiarabia.net/rainbow-colored-mountains-mentioned-in-the-holy-quran/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiwu7Gt0-PrAhVRsaQKHQmGD8IQFnoECAgQBA&usg=AOvVaw0zzdy7O_0E_G3cIHK6UsCj

Where did the Qur'an mention rainbow Mountain?

Mountains with multiple colours are everywhere. Haven't you gone for any fieldwork?

How is saying rock have different colours a scientific miracles.

And your references and Islamic blogs. Is that where you take your scientific knowledge from?

I have told you here that mountains doesn't necessarily stabilise the crust. The isostacy theory is against your conclusion about the function of mountain.

Anyway you did as I expected. Look for something that seems scientific ; look for a verse that is vague and insert your interpretation into it.

Dr zakir naik usually make the same erroneous claims

chiommy123:
your parents did their very best and can never be blamed how you turned out. you are now an adult and solely responsible for your actions so also your friend. me too am going to follow same if they like make I no see them for church I will flow demon out of their life.

you are cruel. Why not teach them your religion and allow them to practice it or otherwise. Why forcing them? Forget about paradise and hell fire. God is not daft and he's not cruel. Leave the innocent children biko.

Teach them moral and teach them your religion. If your religion make sense to them, they will do it.

blackjack21:
Yesterday was friday and, as is usually a number thread from Islamic section made front page. One of those thread was trying to teach Muslim parents on how to guide and institute in their children the ritual of performing salat from their younger days.
https://www.nairaland.com/6111352/how-instill-spirit-performing-solah

It was a thread that brought down a shower of nostalgia on me, my mind went back and forth remembering all the extreme my parents went to put us in the way they believe is the right way.

Our days usually start at 4:40am when they would wake us from sleep to go to the mosque for morning prayer. It doesn't matter, in any extremity of weather; I was raised in the north. In the cold, well below 25°F we would still be on our way to the mosque, unless you're proven to be sick, come 4:40am, if you know what is good for you, you better be at the mosque. Or you would have to explain to a DORINA, whip that has been solemnly marinated in oil.

After praying, it is common sense for one to be heading straight home right? No!
There was this Na'ib (a position somewhat below the imam), whose is Mallam Idris, who would gather his kid around to teach them the Qur'an. My dad, the Führer, fancy that we must join his class. Which kept use engaged after prayer until sun-up.
Upon getting home after Mallam Idris class, no rest, we're on our little feets getting ready for breakfast and then it's school.
After school and all the totalitarian madness associated with it, which pretends to end by 2pm, we get to go home and make sure that we're ready within the next two hours for ISLAMIYYA.
If you forgot and went to play football, you get a to explain DORINA, both at home and in islamiyya the next day the register is called, except you're imaginative and can lie to save yourself. Still if you lie you're going to hell. It was like being between the horns of a great bull, either way you go you're gorge.

There is this teacher at the islamiyya who has intimate love for beating the hell out of his pupils with a motor belt. A kid would be coming home from islamiyya and all over his visible body is a discordant ridge tattooed all over his body. A artless illustration that he had been stubborn or didn't learn learn his Tauheed, or his attention was stolen by something outside of the classroom, or any other of the million infinite possibilities.

Oftentimes, a lot of kids rebelled, some in a very spectacular way, against such tyranny. Like Khalid, who managed to bloody his teacher's head with a well timed furious throw of a rock stone.
Others in a more subtle manner.
Some of use are closet atheist, like me. The triumph of reason, eh.
The son of Mallam Idris, who taught us Qur'an after morning prayer, is now a drug addict. Specialised in inhaling, injecting and ingestion of crazy substance into his body, and has grown to be a explosively violent person. Yet he still pray and definitely fancy himself a better human than anybody who doesn't.
Me; I always find myself awake 4:40am every single day. But, I have substituted my prayer routine with smoking of marijuana (just like I'm doing right now), reading and athleticism.

It's without doubts that our parents love us, even if basically as genetics would care about its print out, and hoped for the best for us. But realistically how many people are definitely sure of what is best, or for whom it's best for?
Children are subjected to fanatical upbringing in hope of raising men with astute personality devoted to pleasing God only to ended up marring their person and raising thoughtless monster.

I'm glad some of us grew beyond the question of who's God, and the quest to please him and not incur his wrath.
I hope that many more of us see reason and see religion for what it is, pitting people against each other.
Maybe it worked sometimes ago. But, it isn't working anymore. Why cling unto it.

I hope that we come together shed away our shackles and learn to be truly devine by helping one another.

Thank you for reading.

the children indoctrination is one of the reasons why I constantly preach against religion here. I don't care what an adult use his life for. But forcing children to worship God is bad.

But when you tell Muslims, they will pretend and say nobody forced them. I had similar response from k4kenny yesterday

Aegerine:
Like wise me.

Tomorrow it is then

OK. Tomorrow. Perhaps you will another verse or point out the scientific aspect of the verse mentioned

Aegerine:
Qur'an 35 vs 27 ( Discussion on coloured mountains)

What do you have on that?

perhaps you should quote the text. Though I will be able to reply tomorrow. Kind of bust now

Modified

I just checked the verse. Nothing scientific unless you point out the scientific aspect. Mountain colours are visible to everyone na.

Aegerine:
It is very clear to any discerning mind that all those biblical verses were talking in the metaphorical sense. Such metaphorical expression abounds a lot in the Qur'an as well, and would never be interpreted in the face value.


If you think that the "mountains as pegs" herein under cross examination should be taking as an analogy or a metaphor, then kindly supply the likely plausible literary interpretations that they can assume.

For those bible verses, many different understandings and interpretations can be imparted into them.

You are definitely arguing from a biased background, but I am ready for you

lol @ bolded. I dont deny my biase. but I am trying as much as possible to be unbiase which I want you to do too.

you believe firmly in Islam and you will want to defend it. I am in the opposite, so we cant rule out biase completely

Aegerine:
I am fine since it seems scientific. Muhammad could not have figured that out all by himself many centuries ago in the Arabian desert.

Stability is closely linked to the downward trending roots of the mountains which requires the help of sophisticated geophysical survey very recently to discover.



Finally, you can fasten a wood to a surface with a nail, and there will still be some degree of movement. A peg is not the same as a nut or screw. Therefore, the usage is in order in that verse.

Should I bring the next verse or you do?

let;s move on sha. but the bolded has been debunked even by muslim scholars. i posted video about it yesterday. muhammad mixed with othe civilization. He was not isolated in the desert.

Aegerine:
I am fine since it seems scientific. Muhammad could not have figured that out all by himself many centuries ago in the Arabian desert.

Stability is closely linked to the downward trending roots of the mountains which requires the help of sophisticated geophysical survey very recently to discover.



Finally, you can fasten a wood to a surface with a nail, and there will still be some degree of movement. A peg is not the same as a nut or screw. Therefore, the usage is in order in that verse.

Should I bring the next verse or you do?

please do

@Aegerine dont you know that the crust stabilize itself under the principle of isostacy. read it up pls

Aegerine:
The Qur'an states that mountains act as pegs. It didn't state that sent down as peg.

The purpose is what defines it as a peg or not.

What is the role of pegs.

What roles do play mountains in holding the crust in position. You talk about the movement of the crust resulting in earthquakes in some cases. Yes that is true. It would have been much more severe than that if not the mountains holding the crust in position preventing it from floating above the mantle.


Go and revise the principle of isostacy.

TALKING of isostacy. dont you know that mountain is not always required for crust stabiliity in the principle of isostacy?

Again, I dont like back and forth on the same point. I have noted your point and audience have seen my point too. let them decide and let us move on. PEG is a wrong term . a creator of the unverser should have known what best term to use. THE VERSE IS VAGUE. YOU ONLY READ YOUR MEANING INTO IT.

It seems scientific, no objection. nut it is not 100% correct

@Aegerine also check the tafseer ibn kathir. the author claimed that the mountain as PEF prevent earthquake. is it correct as a geologist with the knowledge of the mountains in the ring of fire and the multiple earthquakes. AGAIN DONT READ YOUR MEANING TO THE VERSE. CHECK WHAT MUHAMMAD AND THE EARLY MUSLIMS BELIEVE THE VERSE MEAN

Xmuslim:
still on the meaning of PEG. if you drive a peg into something, will the peg move and will it float? peg will be in position (no movement).

Are mountain moving? you are a geologist you know the answer to this. the verse you quoted is too vague my friend

can you answer this as a geologist?

if mountain is in constant motion, is it suitable to term it a PEG?

@Aegerine let me ask you a question. can you use a peg to fasten a solid and liquid together?

Aegerine:
We are not yet done

Now you are one going against your own rules and trying to twist narrative to suit your position.

The verse states that:

Wal Jibala awtaddan (And the mountains as pegs)

The preceding verse states that:

"And we have made the earth as a resting place"

Connect the two and figure it out


On the contentious issue of a what a peg is, a peg isn't necessarily driven from the top downward. Whether driven from top downward or down upward, the purpose is what makes it a peg.

According to my we dictionary definition, a peg is a wood, metal or material used to hold or fasten things

well I dont know the rule I have broken. but the fact is you know that mountain is not a peg. it is not driven on to the earth like you use a nail or other stuff to hold stuff together.

secondly, the purpose of mountain as claimed by you is the meaning you read into the quran. The crust is moving and earthqauake keep occuring at the plate boundaries. so the permanent stabiity you claim is a fallacy.

a scientific claim has to be self explanatory in the quran, it must not be vague. you must not read your own meaning into it

still on the meaning of PEG. if you drive a peg into something, will the peg move and will it float? peg will be in position (no movement).

Are mountain moving? you are a geologist you know the answer to this. the verse you quoted is too vague my friend

Aegerine:
Are you trying to equate all those metaporical excerpts from the bible to an undisputable statement of fact in the Qur'an.

the same way you read meaning into quran, christian can read same meaning to those verses. who define metaphorical and non metaphorical bible verses. what is your criteria

Aegerine:
Are you trying to equate all those metaporical excerpts from the bible to an undisputable statement of fact in the Qur'an.

Are those the civilizations that you are referring to?


The Qur'an referred to the mountains as pegs on the earth's surface giving it stability in many of its verses, and it takes modern geology over a millennium to discover that, and you are trying to equate that fact with an observe quaking and trembling of the earth which ancient mythologies have already tied to the anger of some gods.

I understand we may not want to agree since we have our biases

but try to read between the lines. What does peg means. how does peg relate to mountain formation (zero correlation)

talking about mythology. islam also belive that earthquake is a result of allah anger. what do you say about that?

Aegerine:
Are those the civilizations that you are referring to?

I told you I cant find the reference at the moment, so I withdrew the claim

what I have proven on this first verse quoted

1. it was also in the christain bible (not a new quranic invention)

2. it is not 100 percent accurate because the crust is never stable. it is in constant motion. thus, mountain as peg stabilising the crust is a fallacy

3. thee verse is vague. what does it mean by stability. what does the peg mean. it is not self explanatory unless we read our meaning into it. we all know that peg is something driven into the ground from the surface. mountain are not formed that way