13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

Mr_Anony: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

Bro, I'm gonna ask Father someday if He just liked making fun of me giving me a twin from another mother and so so far away too. I planned to start a thread on this. All my threads were heading up to it. I was going to start one on "Hell" after the current one on the "Trinity" and finally come out into "works and the reward" Paul was so effusive about. But you jumped me and that's beyond awesome

I'll offer my thoughts later. Let me just revel in having a twin for awhile first lol

Ihedinobi:

Bro, I'm gonna ask Father someday if He just liked making fun of me giving me a twin from another mother and so so far away too. I planned to start a thread on this. All my threads were heading up to it. I was going to start one on "Hell" after the current one on the "Trinity" and finally come out into "works and the reward" Paul was so effusive about. But you jumped me and that's beyond awesome

I'll offer my thoughts later. Let me just revel in having a twin for awhile first lol

Haha the Spirit is One. The thing too dey trip me. Knowing God is sweet!

By the way, there's something I want to share with you but I don't know how to get it across. It's a few sermons. How good is your internet?

If they're videos, really tough sell. I surf with my phone and viewing videos online has never quite worked out with it. And my Internet is not that great either. But I'd love to see them. So, you could go on and share them. I'll see what I can figure out.

Mr_Anony: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

will comment nice statement

hisblud: will comment nice statement

Looking forward to your comments bro......

Mr_Anony: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

reading that bolded verse, before i see it as a legalistic duty, but when i weigh it on the Grace of God, i see it as God giving me grace as i daily receive it, using that grace giving, i will be rewarded how much i have utilized it. But if i refuse to use it (which i dont plan to God's will), i will still be saved. But i want to exhaust the grace of Christ, which is by living by faith in the finished work of Christ concerning all His goodness.

Oh yeah, there's this other Scripture to compare this one you gave here to: Matt 25:14-30. Another is Rev 20:4-6, and yet others are Daniel 7:27, 12:3,4, in short the whole of Dan 7-12.

The truth of the Bible is that nobody will be saved by works. The logic of it is sound. Adam was made morally neutral. Upon choosing evil and independence of God, he became a servant/slave to unrighteousness as Rom 6:17 declares. All of his children are bound there. So even the times that they succeed at doing "good" things, those good things are only as good as their nature of evil. It's something like serving someone (God) with sweet, clean water from a fountain (righteous deeds) but fetched with an extremely dirty vessel (our inherent nature of evil). The dirtiness of the vessel fouls the pure water. So, in truth, man born of Adam is incapable of any good thing.

But when the same man receives (not just hears, but believes) the gospel, he is made as much and more a servant of righteousness than when he was a servant of unrighteousness. This means that the vessel has been cleaned out, and by none other than the One Who desires to use it, God Himself, so that it is suited to His service.

Works of righteousness in this latter instance bring glory and satisfaction to our Father's heart. He rejoices in these acts of service. In fact, the fact that they are natural to the believer and do not put a burden upon him since they are done by the Strength and Righteousness of the Lord God Himself is held up by Matt 25:37-39. The believer is not very aware that he does them because they are utterly normal to his life. With the increase of Christ in the believer, more and more of these acts become natural to him. So those who keep after the Lord, pressing on to know Him and be made like Him increase in these good works that we are created unto in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:10). But those who do not press on, may abound in works, but the measure that will be accepted and considered worthy of God will be the measure that is in Christ or in the Nature and Power of Christ not the flesh.

What I am saying is that among Christians (I do not intend to address non-Christians here, at least not yet), there are works that are to be rewarded. But these works are not unto salvation and they are not for qualification to be in heaven. These works are from salvation and are founded upon existing qualification for heaven. If one's name is not written in the Lamb's book of life, one's works mean nothing to God (Rev 20:15, Matt 25:41-46). But when the Nature of Christ exists in a person, that Nature tends toward works of righteousness, so the person tends towards works of righteousness as well. If that Nature is developed, the works of obedience (that is what righteousness means, right or correct standing with God is willing and desirous obedience to His Will) will increase. If it is not, and the believer goes into a distant land and ends up among swine, he will be received back into his Father's arms when he comes home (and he cannot but do so), but he will have nothing (Luke 15:31, 1 Cor 3:15) because the works are very minimal. Again, I say, he must come home, the Christian life is founded on God not on man, therefore many who take the deposit of Christ (and believe me, they are not a few who do) and go into the distant land and waste Its potentials on nothings and end up numbered among sinners will inevitably return (it was a seal that we received in the Holy Ghost unto salvation and if the seal and the declarations of the Medes and Persians were irrevocable, how much more God's Own Seal) even though they will be saved as though from a fire which consumed all their possession. This is why we are told to judge nothing before the time. Christians who are ignorant of the meaning of salvation and the immensities of the potentials of the Life they have received abound and are practically indistinguishable from religious unbelievers, as are religious unbelievers from the average Christian. It is the One with eyes of fire (Rev 1:14) Who knows who is who because He as the Foundation and the corner-stone knows every stone that is built upon Him.

Finally, among the seed that fell on good soil (Matt 13:8,23) there were some that yielded so much and others that yielded so little, but everyone yielded something. So, if all a believer had were the bare Faith that he held onto in the days of his pilgrimage on earth, it'll have an increase upon it that will be rewarded. But rewards will vary according to what is done with the Faith received.

I haven't gone deep into the reward side in this post. I think I'll leave it for a bit. But I gave those first Scriptures to govern both the works and the rewards. Later, I will, by the mercies of our God, open up the rewards too.

Mr_Anony: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

I think i like this, but I believe for us to have an indepth understanding we need to probe further into the;

1. The origin of Grace
2. The need of man for Grace
3. The Workings, cost and advantage of Grace
4. The Origin of works
5. The working of Works before Grace
6. The limitation of Works
7. Why we need Grace than works, or do we need the two together, or Can Grace absolutely take the place of Works?

This is the way I enjoy studying the Word of God, and i will be privilegde to learn from the carriers of God's word

Thanks

brainpulse:

I think i like this, but I believe for us to have an indepth understanding we need to probe further into the;

1. The origin of Grace
2. The need of man for Grace
3. The Workings, cost and advantage of Grace
4. The Origin of works
5. The working of Works before Grace
6. The limitation of Works
7. Why we need Grace than works, or do we need the two together, or Can Grace absolutely take the place of Works?

This is the way I enjoy studying the Word of God, and i will be privilegde to learn from the carriers of God's word

Thanks

nice analysis will love to learn also

@Ihedinobi, thank you for your interpretation of that passage.

I would like you to also treat the part of the works that are burned.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

What is the Loss that such a man suffers? And what is the salvation BY FIRE? In fact the passage speaks all the way through of a TRIAL by FIRE that all works go through.


Does this have any connection with the baptism of Christ which is a baptism of Fire as opposed to the baptism of John which was a baptism of WAter?

What are the crucial differences between the two baptisms?

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Mr_Anony: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

you err Chief Anony, you err. The bolded part sounds like something a tree hugging hippy will say. anyway so what is grace ? grace means 'favor'. meaning God is doing us a favor by saving us. why will he be doing us a favor ? simply because no human being is so perfect as to not require favor to be saved. dunno bout you but i have never met a perfect mortal before. without favor not one single soul will be saved. so see 'favor' as the shoe in the door. however in the midst of this favor being shown, there will be people who are more righteous and dedicated than others. some people actually divorce themselves from their worldly lives and become soul winners for christ ( a good example will be paul ). favors will be shown to this kind of people. what is the favor being talked about ? the favor is the reward at the end. the reward for these kind of souls is that in the kingdom of christ to be established on earth, they will be the rulers and will have authority over all the nations REVELATION 2 VS 26[b] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations. 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; shattering them like clay pots.'[/b] this is the reward and favor that will be shown to the upright.

however to the ones who still continue in sin and do not grow as children of God, he shall be chastised by fire. the fire of spiritual blindness and repercussions.( galatians 6 vs 7 ) ( lamentations 1 vs 14 ) ( romans 11 vs 7 ). and because of going through the fire he will be saved eventually ( romans 11 vs 25 and 26 ). however when he is saved eventually, he will not recieve the rewards of being the ruling class in the lords kingdom on earth but he will be in the kingdom because he has been purified by fire ( fire is not literal. it means affliction ) although having said that, some will be purified in actual real fire.

Mr_Anony: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

here i totally agree. This 'guy' so luvs us that he gave us grace upon grace, and when we respond to that grace be rewards us for it. I think augustine meditated on this topic and he said when God rewards our work he is simply crowning his work, because he is rewarding us for his work.
Peace

I think we can also add to the mix the passage below from Ephesians 2:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I can also relate to this, dear buzugee i dont think ur position is different from that of anony except in d 'purification' aspect.

buzugee: you err Chief Anony, you err. The bolded part sounds like something a tree hugging hippy will say. anyway so what is grace ? grace means 'favor'. meaning God is doing us a favor by saving us. why will he be doing us a favor ? simply because no human being is so perfect as to not require favor to be saved. dunno bout you but i have never met a perfect mortal before. without favor not one single soul will be saved. so see 'favor' as the shoe in the door. however in the midst of this favor being shown, there will be people who are more righteous and dedicated than others. some people actually divorce themselves from their worldly lives and become soul winners for christ ( a good example will be paul ). favors will be shown to this kind of people. what is the favor being talked about ? the favor is the reward at the end.

a little problem, it seems u didnt mention d 'favor' God did by calling and converting them.

the reward for these kind of souls is that in the kingdom of christ to be established on earth, they will be the rulers and will have authority over all the nations REVELATION 2 VS 26[b] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations. 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; shattering them like clay pots.'[/b] this is the reward and favor that will be shown to the upright.

however to the ones who still continue in sin and do not grow as children of God, he shall be chastised by fire. the fire of spiritual blindness and repercussions.( galatians 6 vs 7 ) ( lamentations 1 vs 14 ) ( romans 11 vs 7 ). and because of going through the fire he will be saved eventually ( romans 11 vs 25 and 26 ). however when he is saved eventually, he will not recieve the rewards of being the ruling class in the lords kingdom on earth but he will be in the kingdom because he has been purified by fire ( fire is not literal. it means affliction ) although having said that, some will be purified in actual real fire.

do u mean they will be purified by trial before death or do u mean after?
Peace

Enigma: I think we can also add to the mix the passage below from Ephesians 2:

yeah we should. Grace is given and God as created us respond. If after grace is given no good work follows then we are not doing that which God created us to do.
Peace

^^^ I think you need to add "not" somewhere there, no?

Thank you, Pastor AIO. I'm really glad you joined us. I'll be as honest as possible with the answers you require of me.

Pastor AIO: @Ihedinobi, thank you for your interpretation of that passage.

I would like you to also treat the part of the works that are burned.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

What is the Loss that such a man suffers? And what is the salvation BY FIRE? In fact the passage speaks all the way through of a TRIAL by FIRE that all works go through.

I'll take the questions one after the other later.

Does this have any connection with the baptism of Christ which is a baptism of Fire as opposed to the baptism of John which was a baptism of WAter?

Yes, I believe it does.

What are the crucial differences between the two baptisms?

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

John was the connection between the Old Covenant and the New. His task, as the Scriptures say, was to call for repentance, that is, to fulfil the era of the Law. The Old Testament was all about showing man his incapacity to do right. Because man would not accept its verdict, man took it as a manual that he could interpret anyway he pleased to agree with his own view of righteousness. This was the condition that Jesus would have met and if He had met it, He would have "(struck) the land with a curse and a ban of utter destruction" (Mal 4:6). John's message was "the Law has condemned you, o man, you are without excuse. In all points, even with your great councils to assign meanings to it, your condemnation is certain. Repent or be consumed by the Kingdom of God." This quite agrees with Matt 15:6. The Law had become subject to what interpretation powerful interest groups assigned it and each one defined righteousness by some point of the law that they excelled in while turning a blind eye to the spirit of it. John's work was to show that however pious anyone claimed to be they still stood condemned by the Law. If anyone accepted his message, his baptism of that person said to the Judge of all the earth, "I beg you hold your peace and have mercy. This one yearns for your salvation." That baptism was in preparation for the Savior, the Only One Who could answer fully the Law's Demands and pay the full price that the Perfect Justice of the Most High demanded. It asked Justice to stay its hand and wait just a little bit more for the One Who could pay the debts of the baptized. Please see Isaiah 40:3, Luke 1:17, Mal 4:5-6, and Matt 17:12.

Jesus's baptism might have been done in water as well, but it wasn't, in principle, a baptism of water. It was a spiritual baptism. Fire is a symbol of the Spirit too. To be baptized into Jesus (not necessarily physically with water) is to accept the terms of the New Covenant. It's something like the blood sprinkling that Moses did to bind the people of Israel with God under the Old Covenant (Ex 24:18). Only it's a spiritual baptism. It is the same as the infilling of the Spirit or what we refer to as being born again of the Spirit. This baptism presupposes an acceptance of the verdict of the Law on the part of the baptized that they have completely failed the Righteous and Just requirements of God and stand in need of His Mercy or else they must face His Justice. In fact, that baptism is impossible without that consciousness, but since any one can masquerade as anything, it's impossible to tell sometimes that such and such are not truly born of the Spirit.

I must say that God uses symbols a great deal to communicate things to us so at the beginning, this baptism of Jesus's was physical. It was done with water to represent what had happened spiritually but symbols pass. God does not fail to change symbols because of our aptitude for making idols out of them, remember the bronze snake in the wilderness that King Josiah had to destroy centuries later because the children of Judah had been worshipping it or the very temple of God in Jerusalem that turned into a site for all kinds of worship and in Jesus's day had become something in itself apart from the One for Whom it was built etc etc. God's Way has always been to start out with symbols so as to educate us as to His Meanings with respect to things but eventually He removes the symbol so that we don't lose the Meanings and turn the symbol into an idol. The same thing happened to the baptism of water. Today, being baptized in water with the words, "I baptize you, so and so, in the Name of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost" means nothing.
. . .

. . .
The thing that matters to God is what is going on away from human eyes. Are you receiving a baptism within that separates you unto God or are you not? If you are, whether or not you were taught that you should be immersed in a body of water or sprinkled with water, you are forever marked as God's and all that that means follows.

So the baptism of Jesus is the application of the terms of the New Covenant to a person. John's baptism was an acceptance of failure in one's part in keeping the terms of the Old Covenant.

Ubenedictus: I can also relate to this, dear buzugee i dont think ur position is different from that of anony except in d 'purification' aspect. a little problem, it seems u didnt mention d 'favor' God did by calling and converting them. do u mean they will be purified by trial before death or do u mean after?
Peace

sup Field Marshall Ubenedictus. Wetin una chop remain . oh yeah the favor is the grace. favor = grace . they will be purified before death. only way you getting purified is when you can feel pain, which is in a body, which is on earth. when your body feels pain, your soul feel pain and gets humbled. without a body ? your soul is at rest. so you get purified by trial before physical death. however part of the trial is, or can be spiritual death. the lord can kill you spiritually and keep you in spiritual darkness while you are alive.

Pastor AIO: @Ihedinobi, thank you for your interpretation of that passage.

I would like you to also treat the part of the works that are burned.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

I believe that my answers to the questions you raised will suffice.

What is the Loss that such a man suffers?

I beg you will pardon me my penchant for simply indicating Bible passages without quoting them. I have limited text entry on my phone and that's what I surf with plus it's tedious typing out the full text of the passages in addition to my explanations on this keypad. I beg you bear with me.

The following Bible passages bear the answer to this question: Matt 24:45-51 (Luke 12:41-48), 25:14-30. These two should be compared as one with Matt 25:31-46.

It is a loss of reward. Because Jesus was faithful in all that was given to Him to do, He has (as a Man) been given the Seat of Authority over every thing that God created. And He holds that place in trust for all children of God. As many as are faithful in their own estate will sit with Him in the same seat. As many as waste that which is committed to them will lose that Seat, but not their salvation and membership in the House of God.

And what is the salvation BY FIRE? In fact the passage speaks all the way through of a TRIAL by FIRE that all works go through.

Indeed it does. Like my treatise on the baptisms pointed out, Fire is a type or symbol of the Spirit. That is indicated in the incident at the Pentecost (Acts 2:3), the words of Jesus in Luke 12:49, the sword at Eden in Gen 3:24, and the visions described in Ezekiel 1. In all of them, one thing should stand out that agrees utterly with Gal 5:17: that the Spirit is extremely jealous for the things of God. He never ever allows contamination of Christ. He is a Judging Spirit, an impassable fire for all things that are not Christ.

In the life of the man who has been born again, there is this discriminating "thing" that makes him tend toward certain things and not others. As long as he agrees with that tendency, he will live within the will of God and do those good works for which he was created in Christ Jesus. But it is possible to go against that tendency and live like one who has forgotten that he has been saved. This results in grieving and even quenching the Spirit of God, but never losing Him. He is a Seal or Mark of Ownership upon the believer and is present to take that Ownership to its fullest potentials but while it is possible to fail of attaining the fullness of the potentials of God's ownership of a man, it is not possible for a man to become "unowned" by God. That's beside the point though.

Our salvation is such that what we receive at the beginning is a seed. This seed ought to grow and fulfil all of its potentials. And the Work of the Spirit of God is to grow it. He does so by piloting our lives, so to speak. I may want very much to do this thing, which in itself is perhaps not wrong, but I sense this pretty strong dissuading to it. It's like a wrestle on the inside. I know that I can choose this or that but I find that the more I listen to this "voice" urging me away from this perhaps legitimate thing that I wish to do, I grow more inclined to not doing it. Once I consciously come under the government of that Voice, I have been saved with respect to that thing. It could be an issue of relationship, it could be school, a job I wish to take or any other thing. But if I listen to the Spirit, something perfectly legitimate that would have been a loss to Christ had I done it is escaped and the other thing He leads me into increases Christ in me. Sorry, I feel that I must explain this with an example.

A young Christian is studying a certain discipline in the university. With each passing year, he senses less and less willingness to go on doing so. He's scared because if he dares to step out of the course, his future will become "uncertain". This sounds perfectly reasonable until one remembers "ye are not your own" (1 Cor 6:19). The instant the Christian learns this he becomes very responsible to choose to trust the Lord Whom he has seen with respect to the matter or to refuse to do so. To refuse to do so, he would have to disobey a great many Scriptures. To obey, he would have to step out into the realm of the unknown with nothing but faith in the Lord Whom he has seen.

If he steps out in obedience, he might lose a degree, but that is work that has failed the test of the Spirit. Because he gives it up now, today that he hears the Voice, he receives the work that is the Lord's, sanctioned by the Lord and blessed by the Lord. Judgment has been rendered and he has been saved. But because his salvation happened today, there is only reward to look forward to, not loss.

Imagine that this same student faced "reality" as some say . . .

. . .and disobeyed in this matter. What would happen? He'd go on to get a degree that Christ knows nothing of since he was walking contrary to Christ in getting it. He would perhaps build a job on it, raise a family with it, affect other lives by it. All of these without Christ. Because he did not let it go, at the apportioning of rewards for labors done for and in the Lord, there'd be nothing to reward although so much was done. I'm sure you can see the enormity of the waste.

The salvation is by fire in the sense that it is tried for purity and degree of adherence. The Fire that tests is the Spirit of Christ within. And His verdict is also within. For the Christian, the Day of Judgment is not in the future. It is today (1 Pet 4:17). He Whom we have within is testing everything against the Christ that we have received. If we accept His verdict today, we are saved from loss because He will burn up that which is not according to Christ as we hand it over in obedience to Him and give to us in its place that which is totally Christ. It is that which He gives us that can be rewarded when the Lord returns for His Church, not that which we "give" to Him. So where that young Christian suffers tremendous loss with respect to that degree he refused to let go, he could have gained perhaps a new life vocation that might have been less "realistic" (hehe) than the degree he'd given up but which would have resulted in him gaining a place in Christ's Throne. How so? You entrust greater things to a person who proves with little things that he is trustworthy.

Please indicate to me where I have been unclear or not answered adequately.

Mr_Anony: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 3:13-15

Basically, The question presented here is if we are saved by God's grace, why then are our works tested at all. Why are we rewarded for works too. Shouldn't grace just be the common denominator irrespective of works?

My offhanded explanation is that God is madly in love with us so that even after He gives us grace we don't deserve, He rewards us for works on top.
Crazy Crazy Love by a Crazy Crazy God. God is just too much.

(blasphemy alert: please note that 'crazy' here is used in a good way)

Now that I have shown my excitement, let us now seriously use the scripture to ponder over it. I await your insights on the matter.

P/s: The Bible is the final authority on this Issue.

i'm stuck with christ and i'm loooooving d glue!

@ihedi u said adam was born morally neutral...can u explain

ATMC: @ihedi u said adam was born morally neutral...can u explain

I think he means Adam not having the knowledge of good and evil before eating the forbidden fruit

Mr_Anony:
I think he means Adam not having the knowledge of good and evil before eating the forbidden fruit

ok

Mr_Anony:
I think he means Adam not having the knowledge of good and evil before eating the forbidden fruit

Pretty much

Enigma: ^^^ I think you need to add "not" somewhere there, no?

thanks enigma most time my head moves faster than my hands and forces my hand to do same. It is suprising what one word can do to a whole statement.
Thanks again
peace

Ihedinobi: Thank you,
John was the connection between the Old Covenant and the New. His task, as the Scriptures say, was to call for repentance, that is, to fulfil the era of the Law. The Old Testament was all about showing man his incapacity to do right. Because man would not accept its verdict, man took it as a manual that he could interpret anyway he pleased to agree with his own view of righteousness. This was the condition that Jesus would have met and if He had met it, He would have "(struck) the land with a curse and a ban of utter destruction" (Mal 4:6). John's message was "the Law has condemned you, o man, you are without excuse. In all points, even with your great councils to assign meanings to it, your condemnation is certain. Repent or be consumed by the Kingdom of God." This quite agrees with Matt 15:6. The Law had become subject to what interpretation powerful interest groups assigned it and each one defined righteousness by some point of the law that they excelled in while turning a blind eye to the spirit of it. John's work was to show that however pious anyone claimed to be they still stood condemned by the Law. If anyone accepted his message, his baptism of that person said to the Judge of all the earth, "I beg you hold your peace and have mercy. This one yearns for your salvation." That baptism was in preparation for the Savior, the Only One Who could answer fully the Law's Demands and pay the full price that the Perfect Justice of the Most High demanded. It asked Justice to stay its hand and wait just a little bit more for the One Who could pay the debts of the baptized. Please see Isaiah 40:3, Luke 1:17, Mal 4:5-6, and Matt 17:12.

Jesus's baptism might have been done in water as well, but it wasn't, in principle, a baptism of water. It was a spiritual baptism. Fire is a symbol of the Spirit too. To be baptized into Jesus (not necessarily physically with water) is to accept the terms of the New Covenant. It's something like the blood sprinkling that Moses did to bind the people of Israel with God under the Old Covenant (Ex 24:18). Only it's a spiritual baptism. It is the same as the infilling of the Spirit or what we refer to as being born again of the Spirit. This baptism presupposes an acceptance of the verdict of the Law on the part of the baptized that they have completely failed the Righteous and Just requirements of God and stand in need of His Mercy or else they must face His Justice. In fact, that baptism is impossible without that consciousness, but since any one can masquerade as anything, it's impossible to tell sometimes that such and such are not truly born of the Spirit.

I must say that God uses symbols a great deal to communicate things to us so at the beginning, this baptism of Jesus's was physical. It was done with water to represent what had happened spiritually but symbols pass. God does not fail to change symbols because of our aptitude for making idols out of them, remember the bronze snake in the wilderness that King Josiah had to destroy centuries later because the children of Judah had been worshipping it or the very temple of God in Jerusalem that turned into a site for all kinds of worship and in Jesus's day had become something in itself apart from the One for Whom it was built etc etc. God's Way has always been to start out with symbols so as to educate us as to His Meanings with respect to things but eventually He removes the symbol so that we don't lose the Meanings and turn the symbol into an idol. The same thing happened to the baptism of water. Today, being baptized in water with the words, "I baptize you, so and so, in the Name of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost" means nothing.
. . .

wow! Way to go, so becos simbols are removed you think that the simbol of baptism 'water' is no more effective. Now i doubt that that symbols of initiation into a covenant cannot expire and die wen d covenant is still functioning, and baptism only loses its meaning when d spiritual perspective is shaded.
Everybody thus far explained d passage in d present but i want to ask, what does d bible mean when it say 'the Day'? It appears many time in d bible.
Peace

buzugee: sup Field Marshall Ubenedictus. Wetin una chop remain . oh yeah the favor is the grace. favor = grace . they will be purified before death. only way you getting purified is when you can feel pain, which is in a body, which is on earth. when your body feels pain, your soul feel pain and gets humbled. without a body ? your soul is at rest. so you get purified by trial before physical death. however part of the trial is, or can be spiritual death. the lord can kill you spiritually and keep you in spiritual darkness while you are alive.

beautiful way to put it, but oga i never reach 'field marshall'.

Ubenedictus: wow! Way to go, so becos simbols are removed you think that the simbol of baptism 'water' is no more effective. Now i doubt that that symbols of initiation into a covenant cannot expire and die wen d covenant is still functioning, and baptism only loses its meaning when d spiritual perspective is shaded.
Everybody thus far explained d passage in d present but i want to ask, what does d bible mean when it say 'the Day'? It appears many time in d bible.
Peace

About the symbol of water baptism, I'm sorry if I sounded disrespectful or anything like that. My word is not law. One can search the Scriptures for oneself. However, I am interested in that part of your statement about the symbols of a covenant remaining effective until the covenant expires. I'm very interested to study this matter with other believers. It's more than a little scary to make a declaration like I have, but I think that there is Scriptural strength backing it. The prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Hosea seem to revolve about it and much of the prophecies and teachings concerning the times of the end appear to touch upon it. If it suits you and any other interested party, I could start a thread on it, unless room is found for it on this thread.