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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence (2928 Views)
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Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 8:24am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Omnipotence = Ability to do all things Can God create a rock that he can not move? 1) Yes. -able to create the rock -unable to move the rock.................impotence. omnipotence debunked! 2) No. -able to move all rocks -unable to create the unmovable rock.............impotence |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 8:51am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Omnipotence is a self-contradicting phenomena. Omnipotence = ability to do all things However, the ability to do all things would also require the ability not to be omnipotent! |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 9:47am On Aug 14, 2012 |
I'll ask you a similar question: "Does your mother know that you are stupi[i]d[/i]?" If you say yes, then you are stupi[i]d[/i] and your mother knows it If you say no, you are still stupi[i]d[/i] and your mother is too stupi[i]d[/i] recognize it If you say you don't know, then you are too stupi[i]d[/i] to even understand the question If you protest that the question is wrong or give an indirect answer, then you are an "artful dodger" If you refuse to answer, then I have "debunked" you. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by KiKatanga: 10:33am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I'll ask you a similar question: I figure you've never looked after kids, because all parents know their kids are stupi[i]d[/i]. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by Avicenna: 10:39am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I'll ask you a similar question:Nairaland just keep getting nastier. Gotta steel myself really. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 10:55am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Ki-Katanga: Avicenna:You guys miss the point. The idea was to show him that there is something wrong with his question as it comes loaded with the presumption that there is a stone God cannot carry and then goes on to phrase his question in such a way that there cannot possibly be a right answer. So I asked a similar question phrased in such a way that no matter how he answers it, he would still be wrong. You don't create something out of the blue and then test against it. It is like if I ask can you bleed "unbleedable" blood or drink water that cannot be swallowed etc It is a silly question and all I'm doing is to try and show him the silliness of it. He may as well ask "can God create huuekieiweiolloxx@$hdu# and make it drink milk?" |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by cyrexx: 11:00am On Aug 14, 2012 |
approaching this from a totally different standpoint. the former question: "the question does your mother knows you are stupid" begs the latter question "are you stupid". the latter question already pre-supposes that "you are stupid". this is not a proper way of logical reasoning. the first thing is to determine the answer to this question: "are you stupid" asking the former question is meaningless until the latter question has been answered and resolved. in the same way, the question "can God create a rock that he can not move" begs these questions. "who exactly is this God", is He the same thing that all religions point to or is He separate from them. "What are the parameters/characteristics of omnipotence" if these question cant be answered, understood and agreed upon, we will just keep going around in circles, arguing about different concepts, thinking that we are referring to the same thing. cheers, everyone. 1 Like |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 11:08am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I'll ask you a similar question: Epic fail. Your question assumes that I am stupid. By the way, you could have found a less abusive way to explain yor fallacious thinking. My question assumes that God can create things- based on religious doctrine |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 11:09am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Nope.....epic fail One can move a rock depending on the size of the rock and the person's ability. Can God create a rock that he can not move? |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 11:11am On Aug 14, 2012 |
@Cyrexx, good to see you using some logic, now please let us follow this in the same vien. cyrexx: approaching this from a totally different standpoint.Good so far No, this doesn't follow because in both cases both you and God are already known as well as the meaning of smartness and omnipotence...what follows here is "What exactly is a stone that cannot be carried?" This is what should first be addressed. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 11:13am On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01: God can do everything and can move all rocks. Perhaps you want to tell us the exact characteristics of this rock that makes it immovable |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 11:15am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: If God can move all rocks then he can not create a rock that he can not move. He is not omnipotent. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 11:18am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: A stone that can not be move is a stone beyond your ability to push it. Is that too hard for you to comprehend? |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 11:19am On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:Your question also assumes that there is such a thing as a rock that cannot be carried. Perhaps you may want to tell us exactly what this rock is and what makes it immovable. By the way because you have protested the question, you are a "stupid artful dodger" .........and yeah.......epic fail! (I'm just echoing your childishness) |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 11:20am On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:The question is why is it beyond God's ability to move it? |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 11:22am On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:If you do not know if your mother knows that you are a fool then you are even more foolish than I thought and too foolish to understand the question |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by Sweetnecta: 12:02pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
by MacDaddy01: 8:51amthere are people who say God has a son and or God has partners. God in Islam responds to both in actually the same way, with best clarification each. The answer first: It does not befit the Majesty of God. Clarification: a]. If God were to take a son there are better beings [angel for example] than to chose a human son. What is less is not worth of choice over more. b]. All that are in [heavens, earth, in between and beyond] are individually slave of God. Slave can not be partner. In view of the above, to respond to the questioner, it is not befitting the Majesty of God to move, lift, carry or conduct duty in manual "labor".. God conducts His Duty as the Creator by command "Kun" [Be]. What the questioner did not put into account because he is in a hurry to proof the supposed incapability of the Creator is that he has already rendered the rock in the creation category where it belongs. Creator is always The Master of the always subjected creation which the rock will be one of. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by cyrexx: 12:07pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
^^ that is exactly why i said earlier that this concept of God and omnipotence must be defined and agreed upon before any meaningful debate on this topic can happen. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 12:23pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
cyrexx: ^^ In the same way the concept of macdaddy and smartness must be defined and agreed upon before any meaningful debate on this topic can happen |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 12:48pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
To all the non-sequiturs put forward by Anony and Sweetnecta 1) Omnipotent is defined as ability to do all things 2) God is defined as a creator and omnipotent in religions 3) The point is that an omnipotent God can not exist because omnipotence is a paradox and a self-contradictory concept. Two examples are highlighted here; 3a) Omnipotence means the ability to do anything. However, that means there is nothing you are unable to do. Is God unable to die? But God has the ability of immortality! 3b) Can God create a rock that he can not move? If he can, the he is not omnipotent to move the rock. If he cant, then he is unable to create the rock. You can call your God anything but the moment you call him "omnipotent" he ceases to exist because omnipotence is self-contradictory! |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 1:09pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:Misconception: Omnipotence is not an ability, it is a nature, part of God's identity. Just like the fact that you are yourself is not an ability since you cannot switch your consciousness: You cannot 'unthink' your thoughts or 'unfeel' your feelings you are just you. This question is so silly it doesn't deserve an answer |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 1:25pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Huh? Who is stating that omnipotence is not part of God's nature? As long as God is omnipotent he is a fairytale because omnipotence can not exist. Mr_Anony: Not as silly as your failed answers on this same question above |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by aribisala0(m): 1:29pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
Sweetnecta: there are people who say God has a son and or God has partners. I am responding to you and not the topic which really is a Non-topic as the poster does not even seem to understand basic Grammar or the meanings of the words he uses. If the ANGELS are indeed better beings why does the Quran claim they were all asked to bow to Adam. If indeed God is able to do all things then "he" is indeed able to have a son a wife a brother or anything else that "he" chooses. The fundamental problem that Muslims and Christians have is the anthropomorphization of "GOD". God is a "HE" according to you and and so you attribute God with characters like humans :relenting,merciful and such like.You also ascribe Majesty and Goodness to God whatever majesty means. At the core of your belief system is that the Earth and therefore Man is at the center of creation. Thus we are told God Created Heaven His home and Earth for man and when he is ready he will bring an end to earth And JUDGE us all the good go to heaven and the bad go to hell to drink boiling water and pus. Sorry mate,all the evidence there is shows that the Earth and therefore Man are an insignificant speck in the cosmos. Understanding all existence in the ever expanding universe and its workings need a brain that makes that of Man look like an Abacus beside a Quad Core processor. It really is important to ponder the limitations of Human brain power as well as the possibility of other worlds and beings who would make us look as smart as a fly. To say all beings are slaves and slaves cannot be partners is an assumption. Ultimately apart from giving descriptive words like benevolent,merciful etc which merely decribe The Quran does not give any window into the Essence or nature of "GOD" .In this respect like Christianity it is Fundamentalist in its assumption that it is the only correct way to apprehending God and that everyone else is wrong. However when it comes to a discussion with unbelievers there really is no point you being on this thread if the refernce point will only be the Quran.This is pointless with someone who questions the authenticity of the Quran,Bible etc there is no way to move discussion forward. Our work on this earth must be more than banging our head on the floor !1800 times a year why does God require this from us but not from goats? "because he has given us intelligence and free will" we say. But are we really that intelligent and is earth that important in the Universal scheme of things?? If all humans died out today would it be any different fro what happened to mammoths or dinosaurs? |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by aribisala0(m): 1:30pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
Sweetnecta: there are people who say God has a son and or God has partners. I am responding to you and not the topic which really is a Non-topic as the poster does not even seem to understand basic Grammar or the meanings of the words he uses. If the ANGELS are indeed better beings why does the Quran claim they were all asked to bow to Adam. If indeed God is able to do all things then "he" is indeed able to have a son a wife a brother or anything else that "he" chooses. The fundamental problem that Muslims and Christians have is the anthropomorphization of "GOD". God is a "HE" according to you and and so you attribute God with characters like humans :relenting,merciful and such like.You also ascribe Majesty and Goodness to God whatever majesty means. At the core of your belief system is that the Earth and therefore Man is at the center of creation. Thus we are told God Created Heaven His home and Earth for man and when he is ready he will bring an end to earth And JUDGE us all the good go to heaven and the bad go to hell to drink boiling water and pus. Sorry mate,all the evidence there is shows that the Earth and therefore Man are an insignificant speck in the cosmos. Understanding all existence in the ever expanding universe and its workings need a brain that makes that of Man look like an Abacus beside a Quad Core processor. It really is important to ponder the limitations of Human brain power as well as the possibility of other worlds and beings who would make us look as smart as a fly. To say all beings are slaves and slaves cannot be partners is an assumption. Ultimately apart from giving descriptive words like benevolent,merciful etc which merely decribe The Quran does not give any window into the Essence or nature of "GOD" .In this respect like Christianity it is Fundamentalist in its assumption that it is the only correct way to apprehending God and that everyone else is wrong. However when it comes to a discussion with unbelievers there really is no point you being on this thread if the refernce point will only be the Quran.This is pointless with someone who questions the authenticity of the Quran,Bible etc there is no way to move discussion forward. Our work on this earth must be more than banging our head on the floor !1800 times a year why does God require this from us but not from goats? "because he has given us intelligence and free will" we say. But are we really that intelligent and is earth that important in the Universal scheme of things?? If all humans died out today would it be any different fro what happened to mammoths or dinosaurs? |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 1:36pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:The day you start thinking properly, then I'll start giving you reasonable responses |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 1:39pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
aribisala0: Do you have some problems? You come on my thread and insult me then go ahead to post some inane and off topic nonsense |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 1:40pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Mr Artful dodger doing what he does best! |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by AtheistD(m): 1:49pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01: To all the non-sequiturs put forward by Anony and Sweetnecta Paradoxes are specifically science and msths based phenomena. They can be applied anywhere. The real paradox is assuming the omnipotence to be limitless. If there were limits to the omnipotence then we could compare certain aspects and avoid paradoxes. These paradoxes exist throughout religion. The idea of a god in itself is a paradox. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MrAnony1(m): 1:54pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:lol you are really lacking in intelligence: "Does your mother know that you are an i[i]d[/i]iot? Debunking Logicboy" |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 1:57pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
Atheist:-D: Omnipotence can hardly have limits given its definition. However, I agree with you. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by MacDaddy01: 1:58pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Remember that you are supposed to be a christian with morals. |
Re: Can God Create A Rock That He Can Not Move? Debunking Omnipotence by AtheistD(m): 2:07pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
MacDaddy01: If we said omnipotence was limitless due to the fact that we could not measure or ascertain the limits then we could draw conclusions. Say for instance the omnipotence is i, we could say deity a with an omnipotency of i is greater than another deity b with an omnipotency of y by an amount known as x: This is of course not true omnipotency however one could argue that if it is beyond our measuring or comprehension it is omnipotent. |
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