Jesus conquered his enemies through LOVE while the Muslims and Catholics conquered their enemies through Jihad and the Crusades.

Muhammad went on countless raids and wars in which thousands died but Jesus did not kill 1 soul nor did he fight for an earthly kingdom or tell his followers to do so , yet millions were given eternal life by him and freely so.

Jesus wanted a peculiar people, holy and beloved to inherit the new heaven and earth which will appear after this wicked one is destroyed with fire, but Muhammed was far more concerned about conquering this present corrupt world in which we live than saving souls for the life after.

Jesus coerced people through logic , love , truth and kindness, Muhammad coerced people with the edge of the sword.

Jesus considers love for your enemies as a sign of strength , while Muhammed considers it as a sign of weakness.

Bottom line, Jesus is LOVE , he is the saviour of mankind and the only one worthy of our praise and worship.

Atheists, Muslims and other enemies of the cross insult Jesus 24/7 and yet he ignores them and is grieved for their abject foolishness and entanglement in Satan's deception , on the cross he said Father forgive them and even saved the thief on the cross after his initial outburst.

Yet many atheists, Muslims and others enemies of ISLAM have been slaughtered in their millions for simply disagreeing with Muhammad.

Atheists dare not ridicule ISLAM publicly for fear of immediate beheading , yet these cowards and religious fools can ridicule Christ because they know he is a lamb that will not speak in retaliation or revenge.

You decide !

and the wars of Christianity? How did Christianity enter Nigerian? through lovely coercion?

Please..

Actually:

1) Yes, Allah's Prophet became violent; but initially, he was peace-loving, until, of course, Islam became the dominant religion

2) But, how's Jesus any different? In his first coming, he was peaceful, but most and/or all Christian sects accept that his second coming will be quite very violent. Isn't that so? Mohammed's violence will be 'nothing' compared to the 'violence' predicted for non-Christians when Jesus the Christ returns.

It is a mistake to present the Christian God as pacifist. Yahweh, or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Jews is clear to present as a 'manly person of war' (he's lived up that reputation by engaging in serial genocides, infanticide, and all sorts); Jesus presented as a reformed version of that deity, but only for a while. . .

So please, it isn't pretty to misrepresent the Christian God as only loving; he is able to wage war and win it; his peaceful posture must not be mistaken as pacifist.

.

mkmyers45: and the wars of Christianity? How did Christianity enter Nigerian? through lovely coercion?

Please..

God can use any situation for this purposes, however individual hearts are never conquered through war, blackmail or coercion.

Besides the British did not place a knife at the necks of our people and convert them , they converted us with education , books, establishing schools, hospitals etc etc.

[quote author=Nimshi]Actually:

1) Yes, Allah's Prophet became violent; but initially, he was peace-loving, until, of course, Islam became the dominant religion

True

I blame his wife and uncle for his change.

2) But, how's Jesus any different? In his first coming, he was peaceful, but most and/or all Christian sects accept that his second coming will be quite very violent. Isn't that so? Mohammed's violence will be 'nothing' compared to the 'violence' predicted for non-Christians when Jesus the Christ returns.

His second coming is not for violence but for judgement of all mankind.

It is a mistake to present the Christian God as pacifist. Yahweh, or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Jews is clear to present as a 'manly person of war' (he's lived up that reputation by engaging in serial genocides, infanticide, and all sorts); Jesus presented as a reformed version of that deity, but only for a while. . .

God is not a tribal God, we have Christians from every nation, tribe and tongue even in greater numbers than the saved Jews.

So please, it isn't pretty to misrepresent the Christian God as only loving; he is able to wage war and win it; his peaceful posture must not be mistaken as pacifist.

God is LOVE and he does indeed and will punish sinners.

However he never coerces any of us to be his children.

frosbel: True I blame his wife and uncle for his change

--- Then you probably don't understand what you're talking about.
--- Islam's pophet did in 23 years what the Jewish tribal god couldn't achieve in decades
--- The point is: your focus on violence in comparing Islam/Christianity makes no sense.
--- Islam's Prophet learned from the best, and then executed the strategy with superb efficiency

frosbel: His second coming is not for violence but for judgement of all mankind.

--- then we do not disagree, so far we also agree that the 'justice' you imply is impossible with world-wide violence
.

frosbel: God is not a tribal God, we have Christians from every nation, tribe and tongue even in greater numbers than the saved Jews.

--- The Jewish god wouldn't agree with you. He is the God of Israel. And not all nations are Israel. Why're you arguing this fundamental point??

frosbel: God is LOVE and he does indeed and will punish sinners.

--- Define 'LOVE'; and then define "sin"; and tell how those are relevant to the 'God' of whom you write and to humans.

frosbel: However he never coerces any of us to be his children.

?'?'?

How does this even make sense to you.

If he's our creator, then we're all his children.
If he says anyone who doesn't obey him will be killed/punished forever, then that ought to qualify as extreme coercion. What're you talking about?

.

frosbel:

God can use any situation for this purposes, however individual hearts are never conquered through war, blackmail or coercion.

Besides the British did not place a knife at the necks of our people and convert them , they converted us with education , books, establishing schools, hospitals etc etc.

Common People were forcefully coerced and taken as slaves..Even you know what happened so stop bieng dishonest

i av chosen to be defensive i.e i will try to correct the wrong statements of mr frosbel about prophet muhammed and come up with the least possible quotations from the bible or quran in my explanation....
.....this holds as long as mr frosbel remains polite....
.....if he comes up with his evidences i'll come forth with mine.....

frosbel: Jesus conquered his enemies through LOVE while the Muslims and Catholics conquered their enemies through Jihad and the Crusades.

statements like these are easy to refute, considering that they are supported with no evidences.....
to refute this,u simply come up with a similar statement without reference to any material......
......"muhammed did not conquer his enemies through Jihad"

frosbel: Muhammad went on countless raids and wars in which thousands died

.....i guess we now know the drill.....
"muhammed did not go on countless raids and wars in which thousands died"
.......mr frosbel needs to check up "countless" in the dictionary.....

frosbel:

Muhammed was far more concerned about conquering this present corrupt world in which we live than saving souls for the life after.

this is also not true...
...and plz dont tell me to prove this as mr frosbel cant prove the above either...

frosbel: while Muhammed considers it as a sign of weakness.

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

olasesi: i av chosen to be defensive i.e i will try to correct the wrong statements of mr frosbel about prophet muhammed and come up with the least possible quotations from the bible or quran in my explanation....
.....this holds as long as mr frosbel remains polite....
.....if he comes up with his evidences i'll come forth with mine.....

Fair enough !

statements like these are easy to refute, considering that they are supported with no evidences.....
to refute this,u simply come up with a similar statement without reference to any material......
......"muhammed did not conquer his enemies through Jihad"

Actually, Muhammad rarely if ever opted for peace when he had the power to dominate. As the Hadith records in many places, the prophet of Islam said that he had “been called to fight all men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger.” The goal of Islam is the rule of Islam.

Although originally invited to Medina to be a peacemaker (of all things) the prophet of Islam immediately brought war to this community of traders by first raiding Meccan caravans - which brought down foreign hostility on all residents - then later exploiting internal divisions for personal gain. (See Myth: The Muslims were under Meccan Persecuted at Medina for a timeline of Muhammad's constant attempts to provoke war with the Meccans).

As we have detailed, Muhammad conquered each of the Jewish tribes at Medina as soon as he had the ability. He also did what he could to provoke the Battle of Badr, forcing the Meccans to fight when they clearly did not want war. Near the end of his life, he directed a continuous series of foreign military expeditions to attack people who were not attacking the Muslims, with the goal of obtaining tribute or conversions.

One example that refutes the myth that Muhammad chose peace over war is when a report came to him that a man named Usayr ibn Zarim was attempting to gather an armed force against the Muslims. According to the true story of what happened (found in Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 981), Muhammad sent an armed band to Usayr's community, which convinced him that he would be guaranteed safe passage to a meeting with Muhammad to discuss peace. However, once vulnerable, the leader and his thirty companions were easily slaughtered by the Muslim tricksters.

Another well-documented example is the series of events leading up to the taking of Mecca by his army in 630. As we have shown, the Muslims were the first to break the treaty between themselves and the Meccans by not returning fleeing Muslims to Mecca (as stipulated in the agreement) as well as by raiding Meccan caravans and murdering the drivers (both before and after the treaty). But when a tribe allied with the Meccans killed members of a tribe allied with the Muslims in revenge for an earlier murder, it was feared the Muhammad would not be so accommodating.

The leader at Mecca was a man named Abu Sufyan. Anticipating that the Muslims might look for an excuse to attack his people, Abu Sufyan traveled to Medina to engage Muhammad in dialogue for the purpose of assuring peace between the two parties. Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 807 details the poor man’s efforts to see the Muslim leader in a long passage that plainly indicates his mounting desperation for peace.

It is during this visit that Abu Sufyan enters the homes of a number of prominent Muslims, including Muhammad’s son-in-law and daughter. Clearly he is not interested in harming them. In the end, Abu Sufyan is rebuffed by Muhammad and does not gain the opportunity to talk peace. The prophet of Islam is more interested in a surprise attack on Mecca:

[Muhammad] said, “Oh Allah, take eyes and ears from the Quraysh [Mecca] so that we may take them by surprise in their land,” and the men got themselves ready. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 808)
In that the other Meccans had no idea that they were supposed to be at war with the Muslims, Muhammad was entirely successful:

When the apostle had reached Marr al-Azhran, [the] Quraysh were completely ignorant of the fact and did not even know what he was doing. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 811).

When Abu Sufyan learned that Muhammad was marching on the city, he made one last effort to talk peace with him, this time attempting to use the Muslim leader’s wife as an intercessory. The woman attempted to reason with Muhammad, referring to Abu Sufyan and his companion as Muhammad’s own “cousin and brother-in-law” (which he was). Muhammad turned them away with this reply:

“I have no use for them. As for my cousin, he as wounded my pride; and as for my aunt’s son and my brother-in-law, he spoke insulting of me in Mecca.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 811)

Thus, according to his own biographer, the prophet of Islam chose to go to war against an unwilling party merely out of personal pride and personal offense. After conquering Mecca he even ordered the executions of those who had insulted him, apparently oblivious to the hypocrisy, since it was a third-party revenge killing that he originally used as justification for his own attack on the city. - Source

frosbel: Jesus conquered his enemies through LOVE while the Muslims and Catholics conquered their enemies through Jihad and the Crusades.

Muhammad went on countless raids and wars in which thousands died but Jesus did not kill 1 soul nor did he fight for an earthly kingdom or tell his followers to do so , yet millions were given eternal life by him and freely so.

Jesus wanted a peculiar people, holy and beloved to inherit the new heaven and earth which will appear after this wicked one is destroyed with fire, but Muhammed was far more concerned about conquering this present corrupt world in which we live than saving souls for the life after.

Jesus coerced people through logic , love , truth and kindness, Muhammad coerced people with the edge of the sword.

Jesus considers love for your enemies as a sign of strength , while Muhammed considers it as a sign of weakness.

Bottom line, Jesus is LOVE , he is the saviour of mankind and the only one worthy of our praise and worship.

Atheists, Muslims and other enemies of the cross insult Jesus 24/7 and yet he ignores them and is grieved for their abject foolishness and entanglement in Satan's deception , on the cross he said Father forgive them and even saved the thief on the cross after his initial outburst.

Yet many atheists, Muslims and others enemies of ISLAM have been slaughtered in their millions for simply disagreeing with Muhammad.

Atheists dare not ridicule ISLAM publicly for fear of immediate beheading , yet these cowards and religious fools can ridicule Christ because they know he is a lamb that will not speak in retaliation or revenge.

You decide !

Lol.....

Frosbel.......

Na wa o............

frosbel:

One example that refutes the myth that Muhammad chose peace over war is when a report came to him that a man named Usayr ibn Zarim was attempting to gather an armed force against the Muslims. According to the true story of what happened (found in Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 981), [/b]Muhammad sent an armed band to Usayr's community, which convinced him that he would be guaranteed safe passage to a meeting with Muhammad to discuss peace. However, once vulnerable, the leader and his thirty companions were easily slaughtered by the Muslim tricksters.
.

The leader at Mecca was a man named Abu Sufyan. Anticipating that the Muslims might look for an excuse to attack his people, Abu Sufyan traveled to Medina to engage Muhammad in dialogue for the purpose of assuring peace between the two parties. [b]Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 807 [/b]details the poor man’s efforts to see the Muslim leader in a long passage that plainly indicates his mounting desperation for peace.


[Muhammad] said, “Oh Allah, take eyes and ears from the Quraysh [Mecca] so that we may take them by surprise in their land,” and the men got themselves ready. [b](Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 808)
In that the other Meccans had no idea that they were supposed to be at war with the Muslims, Muhammad was entirely successful:

When the apostle had reached Marr al-Azhran, [the] Quraysh were completely ignorant of the fact and did not even know what he was doing. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 811).

When Abu Sufyan learned that Muhammad was marching on the city, he made one last effort to talk peace with him, this time attempting to use the Muslim leader’s wife as an intercessory. The woman attempted to reason with Muhammad, referring to Abu Sufyan and his companion as Muhammad’s own “cousin and brother-in-law” (which he was). Muhammad turned them away with this reply:

“I have no use for them. As for my cousin, he as wounded my pride; and as for my aunt’s son and my brother-in-law, he spoke insulting of me in Mecca.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 811)

Thus, according to his own biographer, the prophet of Islam chose to go to war against an unwilling party merely out of personal pride and personal offense. After conquering Mecca he even ordered the executions of those who had insulted him, apparently oblivious to the hypocrisy, since it was a third-party revenge killing that he originally used as justification for his own attack on the city. - Source

....wouldnt it be much easier bringing proofs from the Quran and hadiths in which the muslims very much believe
.......not from a biographer whom not all muslims trust......
would it also be allowed for someone else to bring qoutes from other xtians scholars and base his verdicts on them......

are the above qoutes true because ibn ishaq said so..
besides, who is ibn ishaq
.......... wikipedia

^^^


deception, but hey we are used to it !

@Frosbel:

by frosbel(m): 1:23pm
Jesus conquered his enemies through LOVE while the Muslims and Catholics conquered their enemies through Jihad and the Crusades.

If Jesus [as] was not my prophet in islam I would have entered something like the following from my knowledge of the events in the Bible just to get frosbel to go hide under a boulder

The enemies of Jesus were the Jews who he was sent to. The lost were the majority, then and still as today's majority hate Jesus. The enemies conquered him by killing him either because they realize he did not have true love or they hated him more that they can stand of his presence.

To talk about Islam as if its the twin sister of Catholicism when Protestantism came out of is a human child denying his mother, and opted to be the offspring of a gorilla, instead.

Jihad is struggle in arabic. Every struggle is Jihad. When I struggle to ignore Tidytim of Nairaland, thats Jihad. When I decide to not let have Frosbel have the floor here now, thats Jihad, too. I have not raised any arms against either persons; in my Jihad against Tidytim and Frosbel. The catholic killed muslims by their crusade, so how is Islam related to catholicism?

Muhammad went on countless raids and wars in which thousands died but Jesus did not kill 1 soul nor did he fight for an earthly kingdom or tell his followers to do so , yet millions were given eternal life by him and freely so.

spiritual killing is worst. And the Jews could not stand it when Jesus called them vampires, adulterous generation, people of little faith. Jesus advocated killing of disbelievers, even as the king he wanted revolting citizens to be slaughtered before him.

At least no one too the properties of Jesus because he had none, while the Makkans ran Muhammad [sa] and his followers out and took over their properties, corpus to benefit themselves. Will you not ask you your properties back if I went to Nnawi to deprive you of your heritage, and even bring some of the wealth to a gathering of ndigbo people in England? If the people know that i took your wealth and spending it while you sit there poor, if you do not attempt to take your heritage back from this "outsider", the whole of ndigbo and britishers should reject you and send you to waterloo. I dont know what kind of mind will let someone abuse him without ever struggling to end it?


]quote]Jesus wanted a peculiar people, holy and beloved to inherit the new heaven and earth which will appear after this wicked one is destroyed with fire, but Muhammed was far more concerned about conquering this present corrupt world in which we live than saving souls for the life after.[/quote]WHat did Muhammad [sa] do different than what every prophet [as] in terms of declaring his mission, warning the against evil which will bring the punishment of God at last after death, steering people to be on the path of obedience to God through the outlined guidance? Can man control the heart of another? Did Muhammad forced Ali Abi Talib while he didn't force Abu Lahab? The forgiveness he showed the Makkans on the day of his victory over the city is unparalleled in human history because Jesus is reported to be returning to kill the jews if they do not follow him.

Jesus coerced people through logic , love , truth and kindness, Muhammad coerced people with the edge of the sword.

and all of that love, etc amounted to zero because the jews are still not christians. The whole of Makka being a muslim city is a testimony to the truth and practical approach to be successful. How about Taif? Madina and as terrible as people wants to paint Islam, Jews are entering it.

Jesus considers love for your enemies as a sign of strength , while Muhammed considers it as a sign of weakness.

The best standard of how to see an enemy is the standard of God. God destroyed enemies. Overlooking the fault of people is the hallmark of Muhammad [sa] the reason he kept his duties to agreement, forgiving people and alas, there are not musiim arabs and other non muslims living in Morocco, and other so called muslim societies.

Bottom line, Jesus is LOVE , he is the saviour of mankind and the only one worthy of our praise and worship.

when we call you multiple God worshiper you will rush to say you only worship One God, unless you are contrasting Muhammad [sa] to God? Muhammad [sa] was a human being, a messenger of his God. I prefer Muhammad's approach in conflicts over the approach of who you say you worship here. The reason is Muhammad's approach is practical and preserves human dignity, honor and life. In all your God will say to you "i never knew ye".

Atheists, Muslims and other enemies of the cross insult Jesus 24/7 and yet he ignores them and is grieved for their abject foolishness and entanglement in Satan's deception , on the cross he said Father forgive them and even saved the thief on the cross after his initial outburst.

how do you know the first bold since Jesus is not here? The second bold is rendered worthless by saying "My God, my God . .". And i wonder why such a forgiving person as you have claimed for him did not forgive the second thief who didnt praise him?

Yet many atheists, Muslims and others enemies of ISLAM have been slaughtered in their millions for simply disagreeing with Muhammad.

Many muslims were killed in america because they were muslims. No part of any conflict an their killers were christians. What do you say to that, Frosbel?

Atheists dare not ridicule ISLAM publicly for fear of immediate beheading , yet these cowards and religious fools can ridicule Christ because they know he is a lamb that will not speak in retaliation or revenge.

I guess Islam is not the opposite of Jesus who was not a christian? Frosbel, you are s illogical because atheists are having a field day on islam. Christians and jews and hindus are having their cake and eating it too on Islam.

You decide !

See my decision; I am grateful that I am a muslim.



@Nimshi

by Nimshi: 1:34pm
Actually:

1) Yes, Allah's Prophet became violent; but initially, he was peace-loving, until, of course, Islam became the dominant religion

Became violent because he stood his ground when he was commanded to do so? You dont stop running away from the bully when you are told by mom to face the bully who is actually weak?

2) But, how's Jesus any different? In his first coming, he was peaceful, but most and/or all Christian sects accept that his second coming will be quite very violent. Isn't that so? [b]Mohammed's violence [/b]will be 'nothing' compared to the 'violence' predicted for non-Christians when Jesus the Christ returns.

It is a mistake to present the Christian God as pacifist. Yahweh, or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Jews is clear to present as a 'manly person of war' (he's lived up that reputation by engaging in serial genocides, infanticide, and all sorts); Jesus presented as a reformed version of that deity, but only for a while. . .

So please, it isn't pretty to misrepresent the Christian God as only loving; he is able to wage war and win it; his peaceful posture must not be mistaken as pacifist.

can you tell me a single conflict that Muhammad [sa] started on innocent person or people? Can you tell me a single violence for his own sake as a person, not because he was commanded, or to render the right of other protected, etc as prophet of his time forward?

@Frosbel:

No wonder lagosshia and co are hard against you. You are dishonest when you present your evidence. You go out of your way to embellish, lie, etc against the Another Comforter and the revival of the religion that Jesus belonged to and what truth Jesus left with his true followers, his helpers in CAUSE of his mission from God. This is shameful. You need to rethink your spirituality because it is evil and thats why it has been so easy for fallacy to flow freely from you.

by frosbel(m): 1:23pm
Jesus conquered his enemies through LOVE while the Muslims and Catholics conquered their enemies through Jihad and the Crusades.

If Jesus [as] was not my prophet in islam I would have entered something like the following from my knowledge of the events in the Bible just to get frosbel to go hide under a boulder

The enemies of Jesus were the Jews who he was sent to. The lost were the majority, then and still as today's majority hate Jesus. The enemies conquered him by killing him either because they realize he did not have true love or they hated him more that they can stand of his presence.

To talk about Islam as if its the twin sister of Catholicism when Protestantism came out of is a human child denying his mother, and opted to be the offspring of a gorilla, instead.

Jihad is struggle in arabic. Every struggle is Jihad. When I struggle to ignore Tidytim of Nairaland, thats Jihad. When I decide to not let have Frosbel have the floor here now, thats Jihad, too. I have not raised any arms against either persons; in my Jihad against Tidytim and Frosbel. The catholic killed muslims by their crusade, so how is Islam related to catholicism?

Muhammad went on countless raids and wars in which thousands died but Jesus did not kill 1 soul nor did he fight for an earthly kingdom or tell his followers to do so , yet millions were given eternal life by him and freely so.

spiritual killing is worst. And the Jews could not stand it when Jesus called them vampires, adulterous generation, people of little faith. Jesus advocated killing of disbelievers, even as the king he wanted revolting citizens to be slaughtered before him.

At least no one took the properties of Jesus because he had none, while the Makkans ran Muhammad [sa] and his followers out and took over their properties, corpus to benefit themselves. Will you not ask you your properties back if I went to Nnawi to deprive you of your heritage, and even bring some of the wealth to a gathering of ndigbo people in England? If the people know that i took your wealth and spending it while you sit there poor, if you do not attempt to take your heritage back from this "outsider", the whole of ndigbo and britishers should reject you and send you to waterloo. I dont know what kind of mind will let someone abuse him without ever struggling to end it?

Jesus wanted a peculiar people, holy and beloved to inherit the new heaven and earth which will appear after this wicked one is destroyed with fire, but Muhammed was far more concerned about conquering this present corrupt world in which we live than saving souls for the life after.

What did Muhammad [sa] do different than what every prophet [as] in terms of declaring his mission, warning the against evil which will bring the punishment of God at last after death, steering people to be on the path of obedience to God through the outlined guidance? Can man control the heart of another? Did Muhammad forced Ali Abi Talib while he didn't force Abu Lahab? The forgiveness he showed the Makkans on the day of his victory over the city is unparalleled in human history because Jesus is reported to be returning to kill the jews if they do not follow him.

Jesus coerced people through logic , love , truth and kindness, Muhammad coerced people with the edge of the sword.

and all of that love, etc amounted to zero because the jews are still not christians. The whole of Makka being a muslim city is a testimony to the truth and practical approach to be successful. How about Taif? Madina and as terrible as people wants to paint Islam, Jews are entering it.

Jesus considers love for your enemies as a sign of strength , while Muhammed considers it as a sign of weakness.

The best standard of how to see an enemy is the standard of God. God destroyed enemies. Overlooking the fault of people is the hallmark of Muhammad [sa] the reason he kept his duties to agreement, forgiving people and alas, there are not musiim arabs and other non muslims living in Morocco, and other so called muslim societies.

Bottom line, Jesus is LOVE , he is the saviour of mankind and the only one worthy of our praise and worship.

when we call you multiple God worshiper you will rush to say you only worship One God, unless you are contrasting Muhammad [sa] to God? Muhammad [sa] was a human being, a messenger of his God. I prefer Muhammad's approach in conflicts over the approach of who you say you worship here. The reason is Muhammad's approach is practical and preserves human dignity, honor and life. In all your God will say to you "i never knew ye".

Atheists, Muslims and other enemies of the cross insult Jesus 24/7 and yet he ignores them and is grieved for their abject foolishness and entanglement in Satan's deception , on the cross he said Father forgive them and even saved the thief on the cross after his initial outburst.

how do you know the first bold since Jesus is not here? The second bold is rendered worthless by saying "My God, my God . .". And i wonder why such a forgiving person as you have claimed for him did not forgive the second thief who didnt praise him?

Yet many atheists, Muslims and others enemies of ISLAM have been slaughtered in their millions for simply disagreeing with Muhammad.

Many muslims were killed in america because they were muslims. No part of any conflict an their killers were christians. What do you say to that, Frosbel?

Atheists dare not ridicule ISLAM publicly for fear of immediate beheading , yet these cowards and religious fools can ridicule Christ because they know he is a lamb that will not speak in retaliation or revenge.

I guess Islam is not the opposite of Jesus who was not a christian? Frosbel, you are s illogical because atheists are having a field day on islam. Christians and jews and hindus are having their cake and eating it too on Islam.

You decide !

See my decision; I am grateful that I am a muslim.



@Nimshi

by Nimshi: 1:34pm
Actually:

1) Yes, Allah's Prophet became violent; but initially, he was peace-loving, until, of course, Islam became the dominant religion

Became violent because he stood his ground when he was commanded to do so? You dont stop running away from the bully when you are told by mom to face the bully who is actually weak?

2) But, how's Jesus any different? In his first coming, he was peaceful, but most and/or all Christian sects accept that his second coming will be quite very violent. Isn't that so? [b]Mohammed's violence [/b]will be 'nothing' compared to the 'violence' predicted for non-Christians when Jesus the Christ returns.

It is a mistake to present the Christian God as pacifist. Yahweh, or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Jews is clear to present as a 'manly person of war' (he's lived up that reputation by engaging in serial genocides, infanticide, and all sorts); Jesus presented as a reformed version of that deity, but only for a while. . .

So please, it isn't pretty to misrepresent the Christian God as only loving; he is able to wage war and win it; his peaceful posture must not be mistaken as pacifist.

can you tell me a single conflict that Muhammad [sa] started on innocent person or people? Can you tell me a single violence for his own sake as a person, not because he was commanded, or to render the right of other protected, etc as prophet of his time forward?

frosbel: ^^^


deception, but hey we are used to it !

i very weak tactic indeed.......

why not attack the points head-on rather than pull this up.......at least it wasnt my fault that wikipedia had all the above to say about him.......
also,.....has the quran and hadiths become depleted of verses and qoutes to choose from to proof ur points........
......if u truly want people to see the wrong in islam, why not be sincere to it........
......why not bring facts that are sound and not easily refutable
......u dont have to do everything necessary to make islam appear wrong.
......u should make people leave islam 4 a good reason......

Nimshi: Actually:

1) Yes, Allah's Prophet became violent; but initially, he was peace-loving, until, of course, Islam became the dominant religion

2) But, how's Jesus any different? In his first coming, he was peaceful, but most and/or all Christian sects accept that his second coming will be quite very violent. Isn't that so? Mohammed's violence will be 'nothing' compared to the 'violence' predicted for non-Christians when Jesus the Christ returns.

It is a mistake to present the Christian God as pacifist. Yahweh, or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Jews is clear to present as a 'manly person of war' (he's lived up that reputation by engaging in serial genocides, infanticide, and all sorts); Jesus presented as a reformed version of that deity, but only for a while. . .

So please, it isn't pretty to misrepresent the Christian God as only loving; he is able to wage war and win it; his peaceful posture must not be mistaken as pacifist.

.

Thank You very much, I have said it times without number the only way for christians to dissociate themselves completely from anything violent is if they shed off the old testament.


Also it is beginning to seems as if the God of the new testament is not the same as the God of new testament.

Frosbel says the God he serves only wins soul through love, whatt about all the innocent lifes during the Noah episode, or the people God destroyed in Sodom and Gomorah For exercising their free wills, or the many genocide perpetrated by God's Poeple on innocent lifes on Jehovah's command, Frosbel Shoul tell us if these People did not deserve the Love approach.

i thought frosbel has resigned from his obsession of being silly.

i didnt know the religion forum cannot do without talking about Islam and Muslims.initially when i was more focused here,threads about Islam get transferred to the Islam forum.now you guys have started using this forum to provoke and insult muslims again.the religion forum is not well moderated and threads on Islam do not all get transferred to the Islam forum.

if you return back,be sure i would make your forum a living hell like ive before.

[size=14pt]Was Jesus All Peace And No Fight?[/size]

Revelation 2:22-23:
"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together , even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mathew 23:33
"You[b] serpents[/b], you generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell"?

Mathew 12:34
"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".

Mathew 12:39
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas".

Mathew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Mathew 23:17
"You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred"?

Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

HOLY QURAN 5:32:
whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

HOLY QURAN 2:190:
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

HOLY QURAN 7:55:
(O mankind!) Call upon your Lord humbly and in secret. Lo! He loveth not aggressors.

HOLY QURAN 8:61:
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that Heareth and Knoweth (all things)."

HOLY QURAN 5:2:
" , and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear Allah: for Allah is strict in punishment."

HOLY QURAN 41:34:
"Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!"

HOLY QURAN 4:135:
"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do."

HOLY QURAN 16:90
"God advocates justice, charity, and regarding the relatives. And He forbids evil, vice, and transgression. He enlightens you, that you may take heed."

HOLY QURAN 16:126:
"And if ye do punish them, punish them no worse than they punished you: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient."

HOLY QURAN 21:107:
"And we have not sent you but as a mercy for the world"

[size=18pt]Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"? [/size]
By Huda, About.com Guide

Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?
Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.
There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.


"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First
For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter, But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful, If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).
It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.


"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties
A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.
This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them, (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."


Conclusion
Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.
The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8 ) :
"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

http://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/f/terrorism_verse.htm

Muslims are to Fight against any army to Impede Aggression.