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Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 9:02pm On Jan 02, 2008
1.

Why should Jesus specifically forbid, on the one hand, preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles Matthew 7:6,15:24,26) and yet on the other, tell the disciples to teach all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost? (Matthew 28:19)


2.
Why did Jesus prohibit the Gospel from being preached to the Gentiles during his ministry (Matthew 10:5, 7:6,15:24-26) but after his 'resurrection' tell them to preach the Gospel to the whole world? (Mark 16:15) If Jesus really had made the latter statement, why was there such a fierce debate within the early Church (and particularly between Peter and Paul) as to whether the Gospel should be preached to the Gentiles? (Acts 15:6-30)


3.
Out of all the signs that Jesus could have given about himself, he chose to give the sign of Jonah: This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a sign but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah. (Luke 11:29, Matthew 12:39, Matthew
16) Jonah was swallowed alive by a whale and remained in its belly alive for three days. For Jesus to have properly fulfilled the prophecy, he would need to enter the tomb alive and come out alive. Why should Jesus give this, of all signs, if he was to die and be resurrected?


4.
If Jesus's message was for the whole of mankind, why did he forbid his disciples to preach to the Gentiles? (Matthew 10:5-6)


5.
When Jesus was asked what the only way was to true salvation,he replied: keep the Commandments (Matthew 19:17). The first of the Commandments was to believe in the
Oneness of God (Exodus 20:3). Why did Jesus answer so if he believed in and was part of the Trinity? Why did he not refer to the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Ghost?


6, Jesus said that he had not come to change the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17). The Law of Moses teaches that there is one God (Exodus 20:3). If Jesus was introducing the concept of Trinity, why did he not say that he was changing the Law of Moses or
introducing a different


7.

Jesus prophesied that men of his generation would not pass away without witnessing his second coming and the falling of stars (Mark 9:1, 13:30). Why was this prophecy unfulfilled? Why was it that Jesus did not return within the lifetime of his generation?


8.
Why did Jesus forbid the disciples from calling people fools yet called the Jewish leaders with names like vipers and children of adultery? Is it conceivable that a Divine Being would behave in this way?


9.
According to Luke, when the Jews tried Jesus they asked him Are you the son of God? Jesus replied you say that I am (Luke 22:70) which could mean: you say that I am but I do not. If his divinity was something he came to tell the world, why did he not plainly say yes instead of couching his answer in ambiguous terms?


10.
In the Old Testament, the term Son of God was applied to David (Psalms 89:27), the nation of Israel (Exodus 4:22), the children of Israel (Psalms 82:6), and Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:10). Jesus also used it for the peacemakers (Matthew 5:9). If Jesus was referring to himself as the Son of God in the literal sense, why did he not make it clear that he was differentiating between a symbolic reference and a literal meaning of the term?


11.
Jesus was the Messiah, the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies. He frequently made reference to himself as the suffering servant foretold in the Book of Isaiah (Matthew 8:17 & Isaiah 53:4; Luke 2:30 & Isaiah 52:10; Luke 22:37 & Isaiah 53:12). The
Messiah of the Old Testament was, however, promised by God that he would not be killed (Psalms 34:19, Isaiah 53:10). How was it, therefore, that the Jews had succeeded in killing the Messiah if Jesus died on the cross?


12.
If Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him, why did he continue to permit him as a disciple? Why did he not tell the other disciples so that Judas could be excluded from his closest circle of followers?


13.
If Jesus knew that one of his disciples would betray him, why should he say that all twelve disciples would sit upon twelve thrones? (Matthew 19:28)


14.
If Jesus knew that he was to die on the cross, why did he spend all night praying in the Garden of Gethsemane seeking deliverance: Father if it is possible may this cup be taken from me? (Matthew 26:39)


15.
Jesus had taught that man's prayers are answered the Garden of Gethsemane? What effect would this incident have on the faith of his disciples and followers to see that a prayer had not been answered contrary to what Jesus had taught?


Thanks. Please no deflection, others will come up when you answer these.

Salam.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by longman83(m): 9:09pm On Jan 02, 2008
Perhaps you should stop plagiarising questions from Islamic websites and study the Bible yourself. Then you might not need pilgrim.1 or other Christians to do your homework for you.

http://answering-christianity.com/101q.htm

P.S. Happy new Year!
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 9:15pm On Jan 02, 2008
@longman


Insert Quote
Perhaps you should stop plagiarising questions from Islamic websites and study the Bible yourself. Then you might not need pilgrim.1 or other Christians to do your homework for you.

http://answering-christianity.com/101q.htm

P.S. Happy new Year!


You may ignore if you think its too hard for you. You should be bold enough to reply the questions. Babyosis, now Nwando has been lifting from links yet muslims respond but here you are exposing your falsehood further. I came across those questions when going through that links and I felt that it would further explain what christianity is all about.

So provide answers to those questions ifd you think that they are mere allegations supporting your answers with verses from your bible.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by longman83(m): 10:57pm On Jan 02, 2008
You may ignore if you think its too hard for you. You should be bold enough to reply the questions.


No, hopefully I am wise enough to judge when pursuing a discussion would be of little merit. Jesus did not answer every question that was put to him, you know. He did not swallow wholesale the baiting of his detractors and those who were clearly not concerned about knowing the truth - case in point, his 'sign of Jonah' comment you brought up. Think about that one!

Babyosis, now Nwando has been lifting from links yet muslims respond but here you are exposing your falsehood further.

This habit of copy-pasting questions from other sources without acknowledging those sources, and demanding answers from others while prancing about as intellectual heavyweights is thoroughly childish and pointless IMO. People on both sides of this Christian-Muslim dialogue are guilty, and you are certainly among them! It is no wonder, then, the anti-intellectual spirit that pervades many-a-thread in this forum. For instance, you are already charging me of falsehood - under what basis?

I came across those questions when going through that links and I felt that it would further explain what christianity is all about.

Here are certain other things you should have done as well:
[list]
[li]First, you should have processed the information yourself[/li]
[list]
[li]Should questions 1, 2 and 4 really be separate?[/li]
[li]Did you open your Bible to see if these questions were actually substantial, and if you couldn't answer them yourself? You once claimed to know the Bible more than me, even though I'd hardly made a post on the board yet. grin. Well, now's the time to put that superiority to work. [/li]
[/list]
[li]Finally, present you queries in a forthright, honest manner. Deliberately leaving out your sources is misrepresentation and entirely disingenuous. Of course, this is a handy tool for those who like to posture as experts in subjects they actually have no understanding of, but if we're interested in honest discussion, we'll leave no room for deceit.  [/li]
[/list]

If you are serious about the truth, you'll do this. Check up the context of every one of those verses in a Bible, and you'll realise that most of your questions sideline the context and thus move on to attack straw men.

Over to you grin.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by JeSoul(f): 11:58pm On Jan 02, 2008
longman83:

No, hopefully I am wise enough to judge when pursuing a discussion would be of little merit.
The words of a wise man,
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 6:57am On Jan 03, 2008
Hehe. . . grin Somebody seems to have taken a really bad hit and so dazed that he has to run for cover and plagiarize websites to nurse his bruises! Good to know how frantic all this is making our original poster plagiarist react.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 6:58am On Jan 03, 2008
@longman83,

I couldn't have responded any better or improved on what you have stated! grin

Particular, I would like to reiterate the following highlights in yours which have roundly contextualized the issue of holding intellectual discourses on this motherboard:

#1.
longman83:

This habit of copy-pasting questions from other sources without acknowledging those sources, and demanding answers from others while prancing about as intellectual heavyweights is thoroughly childish and pointless IMO.

Apt. grin


#2.
longman83:

Jesus did not answer every question that was put to him, you know. He did not swallow wholesale the baiting of his detractors and those who were clearly not concerned about knowing the truth

Words on marble! grin


#3.
longman83:

Here are certain other things you should have done as well:

[list][li]First, you should have processed the information yourself[/li][/list]


Which is what intellectuals do - as I have severally hinted them! grin


#4.
longman83:

Here are certain other things you should have done as well:

[list][li]Finally, present you queries in a forthright, honest manner. Deliberately leaving out your sources is misrepresentation and entirely disingenuous.[/li][/list]

It's no wonder! cheesy Good advice, if the 'original poster plagiarist' would oblige or comply.

One doesn't have to be as frantic or desperate if he/she has original ideas for a good intellectual discourse. This is the reason why recycled and/or plagiarized material which the poster(s) dress up as their own really do not interest me - and I don't waste time trying to humour such futile exercises. . . especially when it is clear that such posters know that my threads are not recycled material. grin

Like I have said in other threads, whenever people present issues and concerns of their own (which they have not dressed up after copping them from others), then I post some helpful rejoinders. Where, on the contrary, we are being entertained with these Islamic 'convenience game', they can keep us amuzed for as long as the recycling career keeps them busy.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 10:08am On Jan 03, 2008
@pilgrim.1, Jesouil and longman

I know that you would fall for the bait. We have all known that the questions are really from a site and I knew that you would want to deviate, so I have decided to spice the questions up, taking them one after the other and backing them up with verses from the Quran and bible.

So we take them one at a time


1.

Why should Jesus specifically forbid, on the one hand, preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles Matthew 7:6,15:24,26) and yet on the other, tell the disciples to teach all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost? (Matthew 28:19)?

So let us read from the bible to see if Jesus' mission was limited to Israelite alone or not.


mattew 1v21: and she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins.

Who are Jesus people? The Jews are the people of Jesus because he was sent to them alone.


John 4v21-22: Jesus said unto her, woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem worship the father, ye worship ye know not what we know. We know we worship, for SALVATION is of the JEWS.

Jesus said that salvation is for the Jews because he came for Jews alone.


Mathew 15v24-26: but he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel……,


Here Jesus said, he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel although there are other countries apart from Israel but was sent only to them.


Mathew 10v5-6: these twelve, Jesus sent them forth and commanded them saying, go not on the way of the gentiles and unto any city of the Samaritans, enter ye not, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



Math 19v28: and Jesus said unto them, verily I say unto you, that which have followed me, in the regeneration when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribe of Israel.


Jesus said that he and his disciples will judge the twelve tribes because he was sent only to Israel.


Also from the Holy Quran


Quran 3v49: and (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel….

Quran 43v59: he (Jesus) was naught but a servant on whom we bestowed favour and we made him an example for the children of Israel.


Quran 3v61: but whoever dispute with you in this matter concerning Jesus after what has come to you of knowledge, then say : come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.



So, why did he forbid his disciples from going to gentiles but told them to preach to all nations and please what do you understand by all nations?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by longman83(m): 1:10pm On Jan 03, 2008
Pilgrim.1,

Truly many of these discussions are a waste of time. A long time ago on another forum I butted heads (ideologically, of course) with a rather pompous Muslim apologist who claimed to be a Bible scholar and expert. Being unable to respond qualitatively to my rejoinders, he resorted to ad hominem tactics, repeatedly ridiculing my 'rudimentary knowledge', and eventually stormed off in a rage. Later I discovered, while reading some of Ahmed Deedat's booklets, that this guy simply plagiarised Deedat's work and presented them as evidence of his own intellectual superiority! Can you imagine grin? I have learned my lesson since then. Happy New Year o jare grin grin.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by longman83(m): 1:28pm On Jan 03, 2008
Babs787

I'm not surprised that you did everything except what I advised:

Check up the context of every one of those verses in a Bible

Well, amuse yourself. At the very least, there's no need reinventing the wheel, which almost always happens with 'recycled' questions.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 7:54pm On Jan 03, 2008
@longman83


Well, amuse yourself. At the very least, there's no need reinventing the wheel, which almost always happens with 'recycled' questions.


I have been to that link but didnt see where Pilgrim.1 responded to those questions and if you care to know, this happened to be her response in the link you supplied:


This propaganda lies of limiting the salvation of Jesus Christ to only Israel was Muhammad's deviation at work - because you guys have refused to read the whole testimony in the NT.


Besides all this, Muslims are required to believe in Jesus Christ - even though you guys claim that he was sent only to Israel!! If Jesus was not sent to all the world, how confused can you guys be to read the Qur'an all over the world and yet acknowledge that ALL OVER THE WORLD, they are to believe in Jesus Christ?


So you are free to attend to those questions having given you enough verses to start with.

cool cool
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by Nobody: 1:25am On Jan 04, 2008
@ babs787, i have just one question:

WHY did allah allegedly send the torah, the prophets and the injil to the JEWS ONLY?
What of the children of ishmael? The man he claimed he told Abraham to sacrifice? Why not to the whole world?

Answer this question and the answer to all your "questions" above are answered.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by olabowale(m): 2:43am On Jan 04, 2008
@Davidylan:
@ babs787, i have just one question:
WHY did allah allegedly send the torah, the prophets and the injil to the JEWS ONLY?
What of the children of ishmael? The man he claimed he told Abraham to sacrifice? Why not to the whole world?
Answer this question and the answer to all your "questions" above are answered.
: Davidylan, let me take the question: Allah sent Torah to Moses son of Imran to guide the Children of Israel. The Injiil is the same through Jesus son of Virgin Mary. In all of the above, including the sabuur of David, yet they refused in many instances and periods to follow the Prophets and did not accept the guidance provided to them. After their failure whereby they refused to follow Jesus son of Mary, God cut them off, as the exclusive carrier of the message of guidance to the world. Yet God kept His covenant with Ibrahiim. He turned to the other branch of the Children of Ibrahim. The Arabs through the house of Hashim of Ismail bloodline of Makka. You begin to get it now, my dear David? Muhammad was then chosen to carry the message of guidance to the rest of the world. He starting with the Makkans and invariably the rest of the world. We see that the companions of this Prophet/Messenger were from all parts of the world and of many colors; Shuaib Al Rum, a white man from Europe, represented Arian nations of Euro and her offshoots, the Americas and Australia. We see Bilal Rabah representing the Black race, specifically Africans. We see Salman Al Farsi represented the whole of Asia. We see that Abu Bakr represented the Arabs and Asia minor. We even see AbdalsSalaam represented the Bani Israel. So David, whats your point?

Where do you go from here, now that you know the truth of Muhammad being the only Prophet/Messenger sent to the whole of Mankind?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by TayoD1(m): 3:02am On Jan 04, 2008
@olabowale,

Where do you go from here, now that you know the truth of Muhammad being the only Prophet/Messenger sent to the whole of Mankind?
Says who? If anything, your Koran lends credence to the fact that Mohammed was sent only to the Arabs. Why was he called an unlettered Prophet? Well, here's what I wrote in an earlier debate: Muhammad's purpoted illiteracy lends credence to the miracle of the Koran to those who have been deceived by this lie. There is absolutely no historical justification to believe Muhammad was unlettered. Many further hold on to this truth because of the Kora's epithet for Muhammad: an-nabi al-ummi , traditionally understood as meaning "the unlettered Prophet." As Kenneth Cragg and many others have demonstrated, an-nabi al-ummi should more properly be understood as "the Prophet for the unlettered" (that is, the Scriptureless), a translation consistent both with the grammar of the sentence as well as the Muhammad's view that the Koran is the revelation for a people without a sacred book: "We did not give [the Arabs] any previous books to study, nor sent them any previous Warners before you." (Koran 34:44). In other words, Mohammed was sent only to the Arabs. But of course, his mission was not from Jehovah.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by mrpataki(m): 3:28am On Jan 04, 2008
olabowale:

Where do you go from here, now that you know the truth of Muhammad being the only Prophet/Messenger sent to the whole of Mankind?

What exactly is the work of this Prophet to Mankind? A prophet who had an undying love for slaying the infidels, peadophilia acts and untold murderings of innocent lives? Or who are the Mankind? The Arabs alone?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by Nobody: 4:11am On Jan 04, 2008
olabowale:

@Davidylan: : Davidylan, let me take the question: Allah sent Torah to Moses son of Imran to guide the Children of Israel. The Injiil is the same through Jesus son of Virgin Mary. In all of the above, including the sabuur of David, yet they refused in many instances and periods to follow the Prophets and did not accept the guidance provided to them. After their failure whereby they refused to follow Jesus son of Mary, God cut them off, as the exclusive carrier of the message of guidance to the world.

When it comes to deciet . . . muslims have no rival!

1. Where did allah specifically make these claims in the quran?
2. You still fail to answer the key question: WHY in the first place did allah choose the jews to send his first message afterall eid el kabir purports to celebrate abraham's sacrifice of "ishmael" and muslims convulse trying to tell us ishmael was the first son?
3. What are the specific sins of the jews that made allah reject them? Where are they in the quran?
4. Where are the messages these "prophets" in the quran itself?

olabowale:

Yet God kept His covenant with Ibrahiim.

What was this "covenant"? where is it mentioned in the quran?

olabowale:

He turned to the other branch of the Children of Ibrahim. The Arabs through the house of Hashim of Ismail bloodline of Makka. You begin to get it now, my dear David?

I get nothing but your own confusion, deciet and desperate struggle to force the biblical narrative to fit the quranic lies.

olabowale:

Muhammad was then chosen to carry the message of guidance to the rest of the world.

See your confusion . . . allah sent "messages" through prophets to Jews only . . . as soon as he switched to ishmael, the message became "to the whole world"?
What is this "message"? and please don't tell me about monotheism again! The "message" the jewish prophets brought was a lot more than just monotheism.

olabowale:

He starting with the Makkans and invariably the rest of the world. We see that the companions of this Prophet/Messenger were from all parts of the world and of many colors; Shuaib Al Rum, a white man from Europe, represented Arian nations of Euro and her offshoots, the Americas and Australia. We see Bilal Rabah representing the Black race, specifically Africans. We see Salman Al Farsi represented the whole of Asia. We see that Abu Bakr represented the Arabs and Asia minor. We even see AbdalsSalaam represented the Bani Israel. So David, whats your point?

Timothy was a gentile, the Ethiopian Eunuch was African . . . Luke was greek.

So what is your own point?

olabowale:

Where do you go from here, now that you know the truth of Muhammad being the only Prophet/Messenger sent to the whole of Mankind?

what "truth"? How can mohammed be sent to the whole of mankind and yet the quran cannot be translated from the arabic? Did allah intend that the entire world be forced to learn arabic just so they can pray to him and read his mumbo jumbo called the quran?
How can mohammed be sent to the world when the hadith is all about arabic customs?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by olabowale(m): 4:47am On Jan 04, 2008
@Mrpataki: First, this Prophet restored the firm conviction in the heart of believers that God is One Lord. Not son god. Not father god. Not holy ghost god! This alone is enough! You want more, yet you can not wipe your butt cleanly when you use the bathroom. Orishi rishi! I have to copy you there, on the Orishi rishi thing. Muhammad took salvation to the level of individual's responsibility, and not the Jewish tribal salvation, nor the Christian middle man Jesus salvation! You still want more? You should be tired by now. Omo 9ja, you got to wake up pretty early to even try and you will only succeed with diseased hearted people. Not believers, who are convinced that God is capable of all things and He does not have to waste the life of an innocent Jesus to save His own creations. Which he created without needing anybody and for sure Jesus was from the children of Adam!

@TayoD: You spoke about Kenneth Cragg and others as if they will know the language of Arabia than the Arabs. In Islamic term, we call these type of people Muta Mushriikun. It means they are the worst kind of disbelievers, because they claim to have knowledge, yet the knowledge does not benefit them. These are the Orientalists. If I can quote from the Qur'an many verses that call Muhammad as the prophet/messenger for all mankind, then what? If I quote from the Qur'an, which I have done before that all other prophets/Messengers prior to Muhammad, (This group of prophets/Messengers included Mose, Jesus, etc) were covenanted by Allah that if He sent His Messenger to the world, at the time of any of the prophets/messengers were alive, and if they hear about this Universal Prophet/Messenger, they must aid and support him, what will you do? What will you do with clear evidence of the the Universality of the Messengership of Muhammad?

This writer, Olabowale Omo Pakulopa of Ijebu Ode has accepted Islam and I am inviting you to join me.

@Davidylan: Read Surah Saffa. From Verses 1 through 8, you will at least know that Moses and Jesus were sent to the children of Israel alone and no other peoples. For sure not the Omo Oduduwas of Yoruba land of Nigeria. I already answered your no 2 question. And if you did not get it, tough. I will not waste my precious time on your antics. Its your ploy and I know you enough to feel you. Dig? In Surah Al Maidah, Allah says that the mouth of David and Jesus cursed the Children of israel. If this is praising in your Book, then you need to go to the Bible where Jesus called his people a generation of vipers, and the like. Now you must believe that they were stiff necked. And that is not a description of good and obedient people. They beheaded John son of zachariah, did they not? They created a golden calf to worship, didn't they? Again you will see in Surah Saffa and others. Why not Google the Tafsir of Qur'an? You are good at googling anyway. David, mo fe lo sun. Mo lati ji lati kirun oru. Oda aroo. Omo boy! Thanks for the memories.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 10:42am On Jan 04, 2008
@davidylan, tayo-d and my good friend pataki

Read these and get additional knowledge about Islam, Jesus, Abraham etc



Quran 42 v 13: He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islamic monotheism) which He ordained for Noah, and that which we have revealed to you (O Muhammed saw) and that which we ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus saying YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (i.e to do what it orders you to do practically) AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (religion)


Quran 2 v 130: And who turns away from the religion of Abraham (Islamic monotheism) except him who befols himself. Truly, we chose him in this world and verily in the Hereafter, he will be among the righteous.


V 131: When His Lord said to him, ‘submit (i.e be a muslim). He said, ‘I have submitted myself (as a muslim) to the Lord of the mankind, jinn and all that exists.

V 132: And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Abraham upon his sons and by Jacob (saying), ‘o my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the faith of Islam (as muslims)

V 135: And they say, ‘be jews or Christians, then you be guided’. Say (to them O Muhammed saw), ‘nay, (we follow) only the religion of Abraham (Islam) to worship none but Allah and he was not one of the Mushrikin.

V 136: Say (O Muslims), ‘we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob) and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord, WE MAKE NO distinction between any of them and to Him we have submitted (IN ISLAM).

Quran 3 v 83: Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (Islam) while in Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

V 84: Say (O Muhammed saw), ‘we believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the offspring of the tweve sons of Jacob and what was given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. we make no distinction between one another among them and to Him Allah) we have submitted (in Islam).
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 8:46am On Jan 05, 2008
@babs787,

Even your first reference alone does not make anyone here to understand Islam any better than what Muslims have made of it today.

babs787:

Quran 42 v 13: He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islamic monotheism) which He ordained for Noah, and that which we have revealed to you (O Muhammed saw) and that which we ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus saying YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (i.e to do what it orders you to do practically) AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (religion)

The claim that Jesus was attributed with the saying of "make no division in it" demonstrates that Muslims have actually failed this verse woefully - for the simple fact that they have divided Islam itself into multiplied sects and doctrines. How does one then begin to "understand" Islam from the same verses that Muslims have actually thrashed?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 10:00am On Jan 05, 2008
@longman83,

longman83:

Pilgrim.1,

Truly many of these discussions are a waste of time. A long time ago on another forum I butted heads (ideologically, of course) with a rather pompous Muslim apologist who claimed to be a Bible scholar and expert.

They are full of such empty claims. grin

longman83:

Being unable to respond qualitatively to my rejoinders, he resorted to ad hominem tactics, repeatedly ridiculing my 'rudimentary knowledge', and eventually stormed off in a rage.

That's why I refuse to fall prey to that gimmick - Muslims are well known for that an have championed it as their first-aid when they have nothing tangible to offer in a discussion.

longman83:

Later I discovered, while reading some of Ahmed Deedat's booklets, that this guy simply plagiarised Deedat's work and presented them as evidence of his own intellectual superiority! Can you imagine grin?

I can well imagine! grin Even babs787 here has tried pulling that one with me several times and found out to his embarrassment that such gimmicks do not work in a public Forum - especially when he assumes that other discussants would not have known what he was up to.

longman83:

I have learned my lesson since then. Happy New Year o jare  grin grin.

Lol. . . well said, aptly spoken. grin Happy New Year again O!
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 11:25am On Jan 05, 2008
@Pilgrim.1


Can you still show me any verse from the bible showing that Jesus, Abraham and other prophets were christians just you read from the Quran and that no paradise for non christian?

cool
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 12:09pm On Jan 05, 2008
@pilgrim.1

This happened to be the first question asked in which you tried ignoring the question:


1.

Why  should  Jesus specifically forbid,  on  the  one   hand,  preaching  the Gospel to the Gentiles  Matthew   7:6,15:24,26)  and  yet  on  the  other,   tell   the   disciples  to  teach all the nations, baptizing  them  in  the  name  of the Father, the Son  and  the  Holy   Ghost? (Matthew 28:19)




Let me explain another verse that christians have been trying to use to explain that Jesus was really sent to the whole world:

Mark 16 v 15: Jesus said 'go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

This contradicts what is mentioned in Matthew 15 v 24 and Matthew 1 v 21. Secondly Mark 16 v 19-20 has been expunged in many bibles. The New American Standard Bible put this part in bracket and wrote the following commentary,' some of the oldest mss (manuscript) omit from verse 9 through 20. The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witness admits that certain ancient manuscripts add a long conclusin or a short conclusion after Mark 16 v 8 but some omit it altogether.

And the RSV points the following footnote, ''some of the most ancient authorities bring the book to a close at the end of verse 8. This means also that the resurrection is not true as this is described in Mark 16 v 9.

Matthew 28 v 19 : Go ye therefore and teach all nations,

All nations refers to 12 tribes of Israel, otherwise it contradicts Matthew 15 v 24 and Matthew 1 v 21. In the New American Standard Bible and the New World Translation, it is not translated as 'all nations' but 'all the nations' meaning the 12 tribes of Israel and that is the more reason Jesus said he would judge the 12 tribes of Israel because he was sent to them.

cool
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 12:26pm On Jan 05, 2008
@babs787,

I honestly had hoped that you would put on your thinking cap and grow up as a man in your rejoinders. Obviously, being disappointed is an understatement - I long should have remembered that nothing intelligent comes from Muslims - unless they plagiarise materials from others and pretend it is their own scholarship.

If you would like to understand the issues you are recycling, take longman83's objective response and comply with them: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-103223.0.html#msg1814909). If you would rather be playing these games and yet sounding empty as usual, please be my guest.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 2:11pm On Jan 05, 2008
@pilgrim.1


You can see that your game is up with Babs. You have been known to always pretend whenever question seems to hard for you.

Babs will spend most of his time in Islaimc thread but mind you, Babs will respond if you try posting any lies against Islam and Muslim because I can see here that most questions are hard for you to reply.

I leave youto continue deceiving yourself.

cool
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 2:15pm On Jan 05, 2008
@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

You can see that your game is up with Babs. You have been known to always pretend whenever question seems to hard for you.

Abeg pack yourself one corner and save face. You ahve always wanted to do that - do so and let the thread rest.

babs787:

Babs will spend most of his time in Islaimc thread but mind you, Babs will respond if you try posting any lies against Islam and Muslim because I can see here that most questions are hard for you to reply.

How many lies did you read in my posts? And how has it taken you forever to give up LYING for 'Allah' and putting words in his mouth to make him say what he never said?

babs787:

I leave youto continue deceiving yourself.

Cry all you want, I have not been deceiving anybody by exposing the duplicity of Muslim hypocrisy on Nairaland.
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 2:47pm On Jan 05, 2008
@pilgrim.1

Are you ready to answer the questions?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 2:52pm On Jan 05, 2008
babs787:

@pilgrim.1

Are you ready to answer the questions?

@babs787,

Are you ready to stop pretending your Islamic hypocrisies?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by babs787(m): 2:59pm On Jan 05, 2008
@pilgrim.1



Are you ready to stop pretending your Islamic hypocrisies?

For you please:


@pilgrim.1

Are you ready to answer the questions?
Re: Questions About Christianity For Pilgrim.1 And Other Concerned Christians by pilgrim1(f): 3:00pm On Jan 05, 2008
babs787:

@pilgrim.1

For you please:


pilgrim.1:

@babs787,

Are you ready to stop pretending your Islamic hypocrisies?

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