Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by ijawkid(m): 4:04pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
Rich4god: @ijawkid... What do you have to say about John 1:1. And what did Jesus mean when He said that "I and the Father are one". So u mean since u'v been readn d bible u don't know what d expression "" I and the Father are one"" means?? Please read these verses and tell me what oneness means...... John 17:20-24 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. ..... U can do the maths and tell me what Jesus meant by "" I and the Father are one"" 1 Like |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Rich4god(m): 4:06pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
ijawkid:You see, you guys are contraditing yourselfs. Am trying to explain to frosbel that the Holy Spirit is a person in the trinity and not God's spirit, and you are now saying that the H/spirit is not God. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Rich4god(m): 4:11pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
ijawkid:And what do you have to say about John 1:1. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by ijawkid(m): 4:50pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
Rich4god: What did u deduce from the verses u read as regards oneness?? And before I start with john 1:1....... I'll want to ask u a lil question...... How many Gods were mentioned in john 1:1.......?? << John 1:1 >> New International Version (©1984) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ..... Which God was the word with?? And was the word the GOD he was with?? How many persons are talked about in john 1:1?? Compare john 1:1 with (1 john 1:1-3).... |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Rich4god(m): 5:29pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
The word is Jesus... The word was God, the word was with God and the word was made flesh... Jesu was with God, Jesus was God and Jesus was made flesh. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by ijawkid(m): 5:31pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
Rich4god: The word is Jesus... The word was God, the word was with God and the word was made flesh... Jesu was with God, Jesus was God and Jesus was made flesh. The Word(Jesus) was with GOD...right?? Which GOD?? |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Rich4god(m): 6:19pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
ijawkid:Thats where the trinity comes in, He was with God the Father. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by nakash: 6:53pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
There is historical evidence of Jesus Christ living and crucified by the Romans at around 32 AD. The writings by Josephus scribe of Rome mentions Yeshua who was crucified 30-60 years later. The same writer describes the sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD. There thus is reason to co-relate the existence of Jesus Christ ( the shroud may be a myth) but biblical writings visavis historical narrations somehow give credence to their authenticity. Rich4god: |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by ijawkid(m): 7:57pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
Rich4god: So from ur understanding we can say... 1....Yahweh(the Father) who Jesus was with is 1 GOD.... 2...Jesus(the figurative word) is also another GOD... That makes 2 GODs...right?? How many GODs §huld we serve?? Because john 1;1 is indeed speaking of 2 personage.... Father and son....right?? There is nothing trinity about john 1:1.... And where is the holy spirit in john 1:1?? Where was he?? 1 Like |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Goshen360(m): 10:28pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
See as I dey here dey laugh in tongues.....  |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Goshen360(m): 10:57pm On Sep 05, 2012 |
I stopped attending to many threads here because it often lead to argument and I don't like going in circles. My question to frosbel and anti-trinity, Is God, the father called God in the Bible? YES or NO Is Jesus called God in the bible? Yes or NO Is the Holy Spirit called God in the bible? YES or NO Answers to these questions will end all this arguments about trinity or not trinity. Thank you. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by italo: 5:33pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
ijawkid: Teacher! What you are saying is in contradiction to God's word. Exodus 3:13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.[c] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” Did you see that? "I AM is God's name, according to God. But according to you, "I AM is nobody's name. I choose to believe God, not you. ijawkid: The pharisees were actually wondering how Jesus could know so much about abraham when he was just in his 30's..... Question: Jesus had said many things to show his pre-existence in heaven during the long dialogue he had with the Jews in John 8, but they didn't try to stone him. Why is when he said "...I AM" that did they picked up stones to stone him? Answer: The Jews knew that "I AM" is God's name and they tried to stone him for blasphemy. Question 2: John 18:6 says "When Jesus said, “I AM he,” they drew back and fell to the ground." Why did they draw back and fall to the ground? Literally, the verse says I AM, as the "he" is not in the Greek, which says EGO EMI (I AM). In Jn. 8:58 the learned Jews understood what Jesus was claiming, but being blind to who He really was, "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (v. 59)."Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour." Isa 45:15. ijawkid: If with all what frosbel has written to show u Jesus isnt Yahweh then I still don't knw what can help..... I don't know why you think that a person cannot be two things at the same time. Jesus was God; but also the Son of God. If the mystery is too hard for you to believe, then you wouldn't believe these either: Jesus was divine but also human. Jesus is the Son of God, but also the Son of Man, the Son of Mary. ijawkid: Besides u haven't answered frosbels question if Yahweh can die?? It depends on what you mean by death. If it is the kind of death that Adam and Eve died after eating the forbidden fruit, Yahweh cannot die. But if it is the death that Yahweh who came to earth in human flesh suffered, Yes. Afterall, Jesus said he who eats his flesh and drinks his blood shall never die. It means that Jesus himself never died, in a sense. So what kind of death are you talking about? ijawkid: The fact that we use it everyday doesn't have any effect on whether or not it is God's name. What makes it God's name is that God said so, period! People use "God" as an exclamation, does that take away its meaning? No! 1 Like |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by italo: 6:28pm On Sep 06, 2012 |
ijawkid: Wrong! If it was so, John 1 would have said "in the beginning was the word, and the word was with A god, and the word was A god." Rather, it says "in the beginning was the word, was with God, and the word was God." Sometimes you should drop your Bible and read a grammar text book. ijawkid: Wrong! Two persons, one God. ijawkid: There is 'something' trinity there. The verse talks about two of the three persons of the Trinity and how the are two persons but one God. There are other verses that talk about all three persons. And where is the holy spirit in john 1:1?? Where was he??[/quote] Forgive me, but dumb question. Why don't you tell us where the Holy Spirit was. 1 Like |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 10:15am On Sep 07, 2012 |
frosbel: Jesus Christ is not Yahweh , he is distinct from Yahweh but is Co-Equal with the Father in ONE purpose what does this mean Jesus is Co-equal with father? Are you saying Jesus is another God besides Yahweh? That not very monotheism  |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Fr0sbel: 10:21am On Sep 07, 2012 |
gent paris: In purpose and will , they are co-equal. However in essence or personality they are not. God is greater than Jesus as Jesus said , My Father is greater than I. Jesus Christ totally accepted the will of God throughout his entire life, in other words his will was swallowed up with the will of GOD. He expressed the mind of GOD exactly as GOD meant it to be. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 10:35am On Sep 07, 2012 |
frosbel: Also you seem to believe Jesus is the son of God. How is this possible. Did God create Jesus or gave birth to him?  |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 10:37am On Sep 07, 2012 |
gent paris: Ah okay you are a Muhammedian. Chow !! |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by truthislight: 10:52am On Sep 07, 2012 |
Fr0sbel: @Frosbel. Have you red Exodus 23:20,21? What do you say about those verses? If that angel that bears God's name was to speak to moses, in whose name will he speak and bear? What will he say his name is? I wish to hear your views on this thanks. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Rich4god(m): 11:09am On Sep 07, 2012 |
gent paris:Frosbel... Plz answer the above question, i realy want to know your view about it. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 11:12am On Sep 07, 2012 |
truthislight: 20 “Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him. The angel was God's angel sent to guide the children of Israel , he was given the authority in the name of GOD. So he was an angel , probably one of God's mighty angels. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 11:13am On Sep 07, 2012 |
Rich4god: Jesus Christ was begotten of the Father through the Power of the Holy Spirit or God's Spirit. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by truthislight: 11:17am On Sep 07, 2012 |
frosbel: but was authorised to bear whose name? |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Rich4god(m): 11:21am On Sep 07, 2012 |
frosbel:Begotten... As in, created by God... or what? |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 11:22am On Sep 07, 2012 |
truthislight: The authority of Yahweh's name. If I came to your house with the authority of the King to protect your city from wicked enemies, that simply means I have the full authority as a servant of the king to call up an army in his name to defend your city . |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Areaboy2(m): 11:37am On Sep 07, 2012 |
LOL! Frosbel, you are on a good track to becoming an atheist. Thumbs up! I know a guy who had the same doubts and came up with the same conclusions you have made now just to satisfy the questions that pop in his head about the inconsistencies in the bible. In the end, he threw everything away as the religion made less sense to him every passing day. The more you research, the more you know, the more you know, the sooner you throw religion away. Two years tops and you'll remember this post here Cheers mate  |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by truthislight: 11:39am On Sep 07, 2012 |
frosbel: so, as an envoy of the king if it is demanded of you of your authority, what will you put forward? |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 11:43am On Sep 07, 2012 |
truthislight: Yes. But the question you should ask is, authority to what extent. Let us use Joseph as a case in point. "42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his hand and put it on Joseph's hand, and clothed him in garments of fine linen and put a gold chain about his neck. 43 And he made him ride in his second chariot. And they called out before him, “Bow the knee!”[e] Thus he set him over all the land of Egypt. 44 Moreover, Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no one shall lift up hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.” 45 And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphenath-paneah. And he gave him in marriage Asenath, the daughter of Potiphera priest of On. So Joseph went out over the land of Egypt." - Genesis 41 Joseph was not Pharaoh, but he was operating under the authority of Pharaoh. Another example is arch angel Micheal who rebuked SATAN not in his own name or authoity but in the name of the Lord, Yahweh. "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" - Jude 1:9 |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 11:44am On Sep 07, 2012 |
Area_boy: LOL! Frosbel, you are on a good track to becoming an atheist. Wishful thinking. I have no doubts  Jesus is LORD , Amen. |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Areaboy2(m): 12:27pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
frosbel: I'm sure you do, I'm sure you do  See you on the other side soon bro |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by truthislight: 2:07pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
frosbel: it shows that Yahweh does delegate other Angels to come to earth on his behalf and that does not make those Angel's Yahweh. People should read the bible well and stop following tradition. Peace |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Image123(m): 2:13pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
dangerous, how? |
| Re: Monotheism and why The Doctrine Of The Trinity Is Dangerous by Nobody: 2:33pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
Cognitive dissonance: –noun Psychology . anxiety that results from simultaneously holding contradictory or otherwise incompatible attitudes, beliefs, or the like, as when one accepts the trinity doctrine. Jehovah God is not a God of confusion. He wants us to know. Jeremiah 33:3 |
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