Seriously, what is it with unbelievers and the Bible? They see all manner of absurdities when they look in it and then claim it's the Bible's fault. When they take a Christian to task about such matters and the Christian explains how things add up and maintain logical coherence in the Bible, they take offence and accuse him of mental gymnastics. Is that not foolishness?

Is it not just logical that a body of knowledge that declares that there is a prerequisite to coming into possession of it should essentially be closed to the understanding of the uninitiated? Is it illogical that the initiated should be in command of the knowledge that the uninitiated cannot have?

What is so strange about the fact that only the Christian can understand the Bible at all? Especially considering that the scientific community fully appreciates that with each given body of knowledge, there is some initiation necessary to coming into it. And even having come into it, there are degrees of understanding, which means that one can be stuck at any point that one poorly appreciates.

What then is so strange about the Bible's claim that since the knowledge it houses is spiritual in nature only the spiritual can comprehend it?

Mr, you are so so wrong.

i can list all the contradictions and absurdities in your bible that you claimed was authored by an omniscient being. a book written by an omniscient being should be clear enough to anyone at any level of "spirituality". the fact that it contains contradictions and the fact that several contradictory doctrines can be equally justified from the same bible shows that they are written by men who are subject to errors (you only turn a blind eye to their errors because you are forced to believe it is god's word by the authors else you lose your salvation. shikena)

But i wont list the absurdities and conradictions here due to space, i will just post the links for anybody to see for themselves.

Check them out on this Skeptic's Annotated Bible website

(there is even a quran version on that same website)


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

If an unbeliever isn't able to understand the Bible, then how is he able to get saved?

Believing blindly or in other words, faith?

cyrexx: Mr, you are so so wrong.

i can list all the contradictions and absurdities in your bible that you claimed was authored by an omniscient being. a book written by an omniscient being should be clear enough to anyone at any level of "spirituality". the fact that it contains contradictions and the fact that several contradictory doctrines can be equally justified from the same bible shows that they are written by men who are subject to errors (you only turn a blind eye to their errors because you are forced to believe it is god's word by the authors else you lose your salvation. shikena)

But i wont list the absurdities and conradictions here due to space, i will just post the links for anybody to see for themselves.

Check them out on this Skeptic's Annotated Bible website

(there is even a quran version on that same website)


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

Are you omniscient, mister? How do you know what an omniscient writes or should write? I'll tell you something, buddy, you do not understand the Bible.

musKeeto: If an unbeliever isn't able to understand the Bible, then how is he able to get saved?

Believing blindly or in other words, faith?

I grant that this is a good question. But the second paragraph spoiled the flavor. Faith has never been defined as blind belief by the Bible or any Christian.

Faith is empowerment or enabling to know. Reason is no means by which to learn ultimate reality. It is a means of discrimination between that which adheres to ultimate reality and that which does not. Thus, you identify (which presupposes definite knowledge of identity) Truth by reason, you do not come to know Truth by reason.

Faith, on the other hand, is ability to perceive ultimate or final reality. It is that which makes a person able to know Truth. By it a person can finally know that which he subsequently understands and confirms by reason. Nothing about Faith is blind.

Having said that, an unbeliever finds salvation not in understanding the Bible but in finding evidence of need for salvation and embracing said salvation when it is shown to him. He most certainly does not need to and cannot understand the Bible. His agreement with or consent to this fact is the reason for which he will truly seek and gratefully accept help. In doing so, he finds salvation.

Salvation from what exactly?

musKeeto: Salvation from what exactly?

lol. MusKeeto, wow, dude.

musKeeto: If an unbeliever isn't able to understand the Bible, then how is he able to get saved?

Saved from what exactly?

Ihedinobi:

lol. MusKeeto, wow, dude.



Saved from what exactly?

You replied. I need clarification. Even non-Christians know Christianity talks about a Savior. So I think my question isn't out of line..

Or maybe I'm in need of a discussion..

musKeeto:
You replied. I need clarification. Even non-Christians know Christianity talks about a Savior. So I think my question isn't out of line..

Or maybe I'm in need of a discussion..

Ok. Fine. Maybe, I'll indulge you.

Christianity recognizes disorder in the midst of order or failure where success is clearly possible. Christianity recognizes that there is bad where there should be good.

Next Christianity recognizes that there ought not to be bad at all. Christianity sees evil as the aberration, the departure from the normal rather than the normal. Christianity sees disease as the absence of health and the abnormal.

Again, Christianity sees all that as a fundamental problem not merely symptomatic. Christianity holds that the problem of evil is right at the heart of human nature and that to solve this problem, something radical has to happen to the human person, something so radical as to change the very personality or humanity of the person.

That is what Christianity calls salvation, the restoration of the human person to good and normalcy fro evil and anomaly.

Ihedinobi:

Ok. Fine. Maybe, I'll indulge you.

Christianity recognizes disorder in the midst of order or failure where success is clearly possible. Christianity recognizes that there is bad where there should be good.

Next Christianity recognizes that there ought not to be bad at all. Christianity sees evil as the aberration, the departure from the normal rather than the normal. Christianity sees disease as the absence of health and the abnormal.

Again, Christianity sees all that as a fundamental problem not merely symptomatic. Christianity holds that the problem of evil is right at the heart of human nature and that to solve this problem, something radical has to happen to the human person, something so radical as to change the very personality or humanity of the person.

That is what Christianity calls salvation, the restoration of the human person to good and normalcy fro evil and anomaly.

And how does this work? How can one be saved, restored? Must one believe in Christ and Christ only to be restored, and why?

musKeeto:

And how does this work? How can one be saved, restored? Must one believe in Christ and Christ only to be restored, and why?

Seeing that you have yourself answered your question in the bolded, I think that the problem may be your understanding of the statement, "believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved."

I think it necessary then to ask you what you think it means to believe in the Lord Jesus. If we can come to agreement on that, I think your question as to how it works will be answered as well.

Ihedinobi:

Seeing that you have yourself answered your question in the bolded, I think that the problem may be your understanding of the statement, "believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved."

I think it necessary then to ask you what you think it means to believe in the Lord Jesus. If we can come to agreement on that, I think your question as to how it works will be answered as well.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

musKeeto:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

I think Ihedinobi asked you a valid question. What do you think it means for someone to believe in Christ. Quoting John 3:16 back to him does not answer his question.

The question is: What do you think it entails for one to believe in Christ. If you can tell us, then we'll have something to talk about.

Mr_Anony:
I think Ihedinobi asked you a valid question. What do you think it means for someone to believe in Christ. Quoting John 3:16 back to him does not answer his question.

The question is: What do you think it entails for one to believe in Christ. If you can tell us, then we'll have something to talk about.

I claim I don't know. I'm an unbeliever.

musKeeto:
I claim I don't know. I'm an unbeliever.

sly...ok I'll humor you. I'll assume you are completely ignorant of Christ.

let me ask, just answer honestly: Would you agree that there is evil in the world and it ought to be accounted for?

Mr_Anony:
sly...ok I'll humor you. I'll assume you are completely ignorant of Christ.

let me ask, just answer honestly: Would you agree that there is evil in the world and it ought to be accounted for?

Thanks
I agree that there's evil. As for them being accounted for, that's what the courts are supposed to achieve, right? Not perfect, I agree, we're human, aren't we?

What is there to misunderstand about the Bible. . . . .from the 'Snooze Alarm' aka Genesis to the 'Snooze-Button' aka Revelations?
Even the Christians do not understand the 'so-called' Bible. . .
The main reason you have so many versions of THE BIBLE!!!
Only a 'dofus' will read such a thing more than once!

Like any other literary piece. . .

Do people still read 'religious studies' in any part of this world?

In this age of Ipads and Iphones. . .to watch free p0n0?

Christians are the least ones to understand the bible. And that is the FACT. Moreover, christians of different chirstian sects understand the book differently, anyway, so that makes the theme your thread moot.

Ihedinobi:

What is so strange about the fact that only the Christian can understand the Bible at all? Especially considering that the scientific community fully appreciates that with each given body of knowledge, there is some initiation necessary to coming into it. And even having come into it, there are degrees of understanding, which means that one can be stuck at any point that one poorly appreciates.

What then is so strange about the Bible's claim that since the knowledge it houses is spiritual in nature only the spiritual can comprehend it?

The bible is not meant to be understood, anyway. It is meant to be interpreted according to each individual's programming which will be vast as different individuals have different programmings, hence causing the confusions.

cyrexx: Mr, you are so so wrong.

i can list all the contradictions and absurdities in your bible that you claimed was authored by an omniscient being. a book written by an omniscient being should be clear enough to anyone at any level of "spirituality". the fact that it contains contradictions and the fact that several contradictory doctrines can be equally justified from the same bible shows that they are written by men who are subject to errors (you only turn a blind eye to their errors because you are forced to believe it is god's word by the authors else you lose your salvation. shikena)

But i wont list the absurdities and conradictions here due to space, i will just post the links for anybody to see for themselves.

Check them out on this Skeptic's Annotated Bible website

(there is even a quran version on that same website)


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

^^^
this is false.

Limitation of knowledge or ones inability to fully comprehend a theory does not make that theory invalid on a paticular field.

If you could not comprehend a theory and called it invalid and another was able to comprehend it with extra effort, do we now conclude that his claim to understanding the theory is false owing to your inability/lack?

The bible over and over has stated that it is a book that has to be understood with the aid of other parts put into consideration, but some people will always attempt to take verses out of context.

Even the jewish elders had to learn some truth from the young Jesus in the temple, how much more YOU?

"Pride" they say goes befor a fall, if that is what happens to the proud and boastfull i dont think it should be a cause for concern to any discerning person when he "falls"

In a class of learning any student that is too proud and refuses to ask question will crash due to his stupidity resulting from pride and as such remain empty headed.

Jesus said, at matthew 7:7 "KEEP on asking"
maybe he was wrong!

Philip was directed to go and explain the scripture to the Ethiopian Unoc though he had the scriptures and has been reading and yet lacks the understanding,
however, he was the opposite of the proud/pride fill person of today that claims "superior head knowledge" and God said he HATE the proud person.

Since God searches the "heart" and knows what we are inside and someone is found dirty and detestable and proud and as such cannot and refuses help to understanding of this knowledge whose fault should this be?

That mr "A" cant understand and mr "B" does understand, should the claim of Mr "B" be discarded because mr "A" says so?

The bible does not contradict itself, but lack of the "full package knowledge" causes some people to ascribed contradictions.

The bible has a purpose and failure to know/understand the purpose for the bible can lead YOU to read into the bushes.

musKeeto: If an unbeliever isn't able to understand the Bible, then how is he able to get saved?

Believing blindly or in other words, faith?

Proverbs 2:1-5
matthew 7:7, KEEP on asking (key word is "keep" on)

proverbs 2:5, then you will find the very knowledge of God.

musKeeto: Salvation from what exactly?

1John 2:15-17
the world is passing away and so is it desires, but he that does the will of God remain forever.

Key essence of the bible = how to remain forever

musKeeto:

And how does this work? How can one be saved, restored? Must one believe in Christ and Christ only to be restored, and why?

1timothy 2:3,4
"for this is fine and good befor God our saviour, whose will it is that all sort of men should come to an accurate knowledge of truth to be save"

what is truth?

John 17:17 (jesus in prayer said) "sanctify them by means of the truth "YOUR WORD IS TRUTH""

so, God's word is "truth"

so, according to that 1timothy 2:3,4 people will be saved by coming to an accurate knowledge of the "TRUTH"

again, John 17:3 says, "this is life eternal, their taking in knowledge of you the only true God and of Jesus christ whom thou has sent"

this knowledge is exactly the opposite of what satan wants human to know/do

Adam took side with satan, God is saying, all those that NEED eternal life must take/ stick to his knowledge and not satan.

In other word, dont stick to your own understanding like satan had suggested to Adam,(deciding for himself independent of God) leading to abandonment.

Reconnecting back to God means sticking to the source of life God, resulting in life eternal.
Peace

Callotti: What is there to misunderstand about the Bible. . . . .from the 'Snooze Alarm' aka Genesis to the 'Snooze-Button' aka Revelations?
Even the Christians do not understand the 'so-called' Bible. . .
The main reason you have so many versions of THE BIBLE!!!
Only a 'dofus' will read such a thing more than once!

Like any other literary piece. . .

Do people still read 'religious studies' in any part of this world?

In this age of Ipads and Iphones. . .to watch free p0n0?

seeing that it is your virgi.na that controls your brain how can you have the capacity to understand what is being discuss here?

Even a Hen runs away from sex at time but you, you ant have that capacity/control, i wander then what usefulness your mind can serve if not se.xual fantasy/illusion?

Are you a toy?

Will you RUN?
RUN!!!

Jenwitemi: The bible is not meant to be understood, anyway. It is meant to be interpreted according to each individual's programming which will be vast as different individuals have different programmings, hence causing the confusions.

^^^
error,
the bible is not open to any private interpretation but rather the bible explain itself.

Always ask, show me where the bible says so?

What is recorded in GENESIS its meaning maybe contain in Revelation, this then is calling for the persistent study of the words in the bible and also asking question.

If some one should give you a bible explanation that is not consistent with other part of the bible from GENESIS to Revelation, it means that their are errors in such explanations.

A good student in a class will ask other lecturers even his fellow students Questions on a topic he does not fully understand, how much more so the words contain in the bible?
Matthew 7:7 KEEP on asking......

musKeeto:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

I'm so sorry I went away. I accepted your question as honest. I just had to attend to a number of tasks that came up and charge my phone up a bit while I was at them. Please accept my apologies.

I have already described Faith as the ability to perceive ultimate Reality. Believing is merely an exercise of this ability. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the same as having Faith. Because Jesus is Himself ultimate Reality. He fully comprehends all of God's Reality and Purpose in Himself. Believing in Him is receiving this to be true. Hold that thought a bit.

How does one come to believe? It begins with the very thing Mr Anony pointed out: cognizance of evil and a desire for better. If you agree that there is a problem of evil and that every human effort, individual or collective, falls way short of addressing it, then the next question is what then is sufficient as a solution?

The Gospel or Good News is that Jesus of Nazareth is. That is the meaning of Him being Christ or Messiah. Either term points to this fact: He is the One that God has accepted. What does that mean? That every failure, every evil, every discrepancy and every failure in the current cosmos or reality has been utterly accounted for by this Man and for that reason, God is satisfied. His Creation has been restored to its perfection. The damage has been fully undone and all is well again.

That is the Gospel of Jesus Christ in very few words. There is a great deal more to it than that but the foregoing is the foundation to that "more".

Anyhow, MusKeeto, do you believe what I have said?

I get the general idea.

Sounds enticing.

So basically, realising there's evil should lead me to Christ.

But what of these pastors/men of God who use the name of Christ to commit frauds? How do I separate what they teach from what your Christ represents...

Let's take Nigeria for example. Give me an honest answer. Are you satisfied with the state of the country?

There are churches everywhere. What makes your Christ different from theirs? Are they wrong or misled?

musKeeto: I get the general idea.

Sounds enticing.

So basically, realising there's evil should lead me to Christ.

But what of these pastors/men of God who use the name of Christ to commit frauds? How do I separate what they teach from what your Christ represents...

Let's take Nigeria for example. Give me an honest answer. Are you satisfied with the state of the country?

There are churches everywhere. What makes your Christ different from theirs? Are they wrong or misled?

Guess I'll start with your question about Nigeria. I'm most certainly not. And I'm working on it. Soon enough I'll actualize one project to address a core Nigerian problem and use it as a springboard for other projects of like nature. My plans are still in infancy. I only told you so that you get some idea how I feel about Nigeria's current state.

As for the various and conflicting teachings about Christ and how to differentiate between the true and the false, the call of Christ is not to a teaching but to a Person, One Who wants to know you and have intercourse with you far more than you yourself could possibly desire. For that reason, if you really wanna know Him, you won't be sidetracked from Him. He Himself is only waiting for you to indicate true desire for Him for Him to snap you up and show you Whom He is.

I didn't find Christ in a church or through any fellowship. I found Him in my heart when I opened the doors. That's one reason that "church" isn't a huge deal with me. What is are the people who exude the fragrance of Christ.

As for misled or not, a great many are. Not all of the misled are false Christians though. It's just that there is a great deal more to Christ than just being saved from the enormous power of sin. But because the initial crisis is such a big deal, many of my brethren try so hard to hold on to their deliverance that they're afraid to venture any further in Christ. It results in their being very easy to lead astray. They can never be led out of Christianity but they can be made utterly useless as Christians and their enemy is satisfied enough with that.

But as for the existence of false Christianity, that is the most expected thing na, isn't it? Satan is by nature a counterfeiter. His claim was to the Throne of God in his bid for equality with the Word. Now he runs a whole hierarchy of his own trying to ape God's Order. Aping Christianity would very normally be the first thing that comes to his mind once he realizes that it necessarily destroys all his effort. And he did.

cyrexx: Mr, you are so so wrong.

i can list all the contradictions and absurdities in your bible that you claimed was authored by an omniscient being. a book written by an omniscient being should be clear enough to anyone at any level of "spirituality". the fact that it contains contradictions and the fact that several contradictory doctrines can be equally justified from the same bible shows that they are written by men who are subject to errors (you only turn a blind eye to their errors because you are forced to believe it is god's word by the authors else you lose your salvation. shikena)

But i wont list the absurdities and conradictions here due to space, i will just post the links for anybody to see for themselves.

Check them out on this Skeptic's Annotated Bible website

(there is even a quran version on that same website)


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

Monsieur Cyrexx, Are you game for a discussion on those contradictions? I have visited the site and want to hear your own opinions. Are you game?

truthislight:

seeing that it is your virgi.na that controls your brain how can you have the capacity to understand what is being discuss here?

Even a Hen runs away from sex at time but you, you ant have that capacity/control, i wander then what usefulness your mind can serve if not se.xual fantasy/illusion?

Are you a toy?

Will you RUN?
RUN!!!

A hen runs away from s-e-x?
Who is this hen-phocker?
You stark-illiterate, it is called V-A-G-I-N-A, not VIRGINIA!!!
EWUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!