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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) (10363 Views)
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@frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 7:58pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
Hi frosbel, for the past few weeks, you have been fighting the "holy war" of anti-trinity. I just wanted to use his opportunity to bring us back to the center of Christianity. The question here is very simple; Who is Jesus Christ? Just describe Him for us. I will take for granted that you are a Christian and I will also call you to your own words 1. Words that are not in the Bible may not be used as the basis for explaining central doctrinal beliefs. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 7:59pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
^^^So frosbel, who is Jesus Christ? |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Delafruita(m): 11:41pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: ^^^So frosbel, who is Jesus Christ?a creation of the romans |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 11:48pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
Delafruita: a creation of the romansThanks for stopping by, however I am interested in frosbel's opinion here and not yours. Thanks all the same |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 12:04am On Oct 08, 2012 |
Let me quote Peter and Nathaniel, since I am in total agreement with their statements. Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah 13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven - Matthew 16:13-18 New International Version (©1984) Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel." - John 1:49 |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 12:13am On Oct 08, 2012 |
frosbel: Let me quote Peter and Nathaniel, since I am in total agreement with their statements. Thanks, we agree that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Would you mind telling us when the Son of God began to exist? |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Ptolomeus(m): 12:23am On Oct 08, 2012 |
I reminded to be a friend of Frosbel ... after so many fights ... I hope Fros, and other friends will not be offended but I will give my opinon; There is no such trinity. The so-called "Trinity", was agreed by the Catholic Church at the Council of Nicea, nearly 300 years after the death of Jesus. Who was Jesus? A Jew, practicing the Jewish religion, they just wanted to make some changes in the Jewish religion. Nothing to it. Jesus never sought to create a new religion or a new church. Jsus wanted reestucturar the Jewish church. Neither trilogy, not a new god .... A god does not die naked, humiliated, crying, hanging from a cross, praying to their god (the Jewish God), that does not listen. I hope no one is offended, as this is just my opinion. Greetings to all! 2 Likes |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 12:29pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Sorry for the late reply , was rather late in the night. Anyway my answer to your questions is : Jesus Christ our LORD began to exist as a being , once the process of conceiving was initiated by the Power/Spirit of GOD. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 1:23pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
frosbel:Lol, I noticed your subtle wordplay there. The question was: When? Please show by using a verse of the scripture when the Son of God (a.k.a. The Word) originated. Not when He "began to exist as" |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 2:23pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Can I provide you with just 3 refs ? okay , here goes ; Matthew 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Psalm 139:10 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. Luke 1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by truthislight: 2:39pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
frosbel: the question is if JESUS HAD EXISTED BEFOR COMING TO EARTH I THINK. WE SHOULD ENSURE TO STATE THE TRUTH. IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE THAT JESUS HAS NEVER EXISTED IN HEAVEN BEFOR COMING TO EARTH SHOW IT AND LET US LEARN. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 4:17pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
We are waiting for Frosbel, because am getting ready to start another thread with him this week BUT I will wait to see how this one goes. FROSBEL..........Where art thou |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by truthislight: 10:02pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
Goshen360: We are waiting for Frosbel, because am getting ready to start another thread with him this week BUT I will wait to see how this one goes. FROSBEL..........Where art thou maybe he is preparing. But this is a very seriouse matter, so i expect him to take his time to address it. 2 Likes |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by alexleo(m): 10:52pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
Thank God that people are begining to discorver the satanic manipulation of the scriptures by frosbel. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 11:05pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
truthislight: If you had read my previous post you might have understood my point. Jesus Christ is NOT Angel Michael and therefore existed from time of Birth. He came as a full MAN , the WORD of GOD incarnated in the flesh and as John says revealed the Son of GOD. v14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Ubenedictus(m): 2:10am On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel:here i agree, Jesus isnt angel michael. He came as a full MAN , the WORD of GOD incarnated in the flesh and as John says revealed the Son of GOD.u have started dancing v14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.it seems u jumped i remember that same chapter said "in the begining was the word and the word was with God and the word was God" frosbel tell me how come "the word was God" and yet u dont think the word was even existing. Another translation says "in the begining the word already existed" the bible contradicts you. Please tell me you are joking so i can go back to bed. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 5:43am On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel:@Frosbel, sorry I couldn't reply earlier; Are you saying that the Son of God (a.k.a. The Word) did not exist until He was conceived in Mary's womb? Are you saying that Jesus Christ did not come from Heaven but only began to exist about 2000 years ago when He was born? @Everyone else: Ubenedictus, alexleo, truthislight and Goshen360, please let us give frosbel the benefit of doubt instead of just accusing him. Let frosbel explain himself. @frosbel; one more thing, please for purposes of this debate, we will only use one translation of the bible which you will choose. This is so that we don't mock God's word by pitting translations against each other. I believe that you hold that the bible is the inerrant word of God and it will be our final authority. So please name the bible version of your choice and then we can continue. 1 Like |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 8:45am On Oct 09, 2012 |
Holy Spirit: "He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." Frosbel: 'He was never with God in the beginning. Nothing was made through him; without him everything was made that has been made' Jesus: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Frosbel: 'Jesus is NOT the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.' Jesus: "Before Abraham was, I AM." Frosbel: 'Before Abraham was, Jesus NEVER was.' That is what anti-Catholicism does to a man. To depart from the truth gradually but eventually leads to anarchy and lunacy and heresy. The rest of you, beware. Frosbel is not alone in this madness. 1 Like |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 9:42am On Oct 09, 2012 |
Jesus Christ is the word of God ( REVELATION 19 VS 13 ) |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 9:45am On Oct 09, 2012 |
Mr_Anony:HE BEGAN TO EXIST FROM THE BEGINING JOHN 1 VS 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God WHO IS THE WORD THAT WAS WITH GOD FROM THE BEGINING ? REVELATION 19 VS 13 AND JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD THATS THAT PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT 2 Likes |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 10:02am On Oct 09, 2012 |
italo: Holy Spirit: "He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." God's WORD which became flesh was in the beginning with GOD , no ? Also God's wisdom which is a SHE was also with GOD at the beginning , no ? Okay , let me give you an example . Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding, 14 for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her ...... 19 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place; 20 by his knowledge the watery depths were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew - Proverbs 3 If we use your logic to analyse the scripture above : 1. We will call wisdom a divine being 2. And refer to her as a She Which means , she must have pre-existed with God and helped him with creation , no ? Mate , if you cannot perform a thorough bible study on your own, no one can help you. Relying on church tradition till condemn you to HELL. Frosbel: 'He was never with God in the beginning. Nothing was made through him; without him everything was made that has been made' And so was WISDOM, God made everything through HER , no ? Jesus: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." And how does ALPHA and OMEGA make one GOD. What about 'firstborn from the dead' or 'the beginning of the creation of GOD' , should we overlook these terms used to describe Jesus. What about Jesus calling GOD his GOD , should we just skip over this and render it's meaning irrelevant. The Catholic church is a habitual LIAR , forger and possesses the spirit of the antiChrist , that has an immense disdain for everything relating to GOD. Jesus: "Before Abraham was, I AM." Again, the result of poor study. In Hebrew culture, to say that you are before someone means that you are greater than them , and even if we take this literally , was it not GOD who was speaking through Christ Jesus, was God not one with his SON through HIS Spirit. I don't speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it - John 12:49 Should we then throw away half of the bible that says GOD is ONE , just to please the PAGAN catholic church. I say God forbid. That is what anti-Catholicism does to a man. I am anti-catholic till death To depart from the truth gradually but eventually leads to anarchy and lunacy and heresy. You mean truths , like praying with a Pagan rosary , chanting to dead saints, a gibberish of a mass, sun worship and all that pagan stuff. No Sir. Let me remain a heretic. Jesus is LORD, GOD is ONE and the Catholic Church is the HARLOT Church not the real one. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 10:09am On Oct 09, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: God's WORD has always existed with HIM since and before the foundation of the WORLD. The WORD became Flesh in the form of the SON of GOD and was manifested to the WORLD. Let us see how John puts it. v14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Are you saying that Jesus Christ did not come from Heaven but only began to exist about 2000 years ago when He was born? The Origin of Christ is from Heaven, indeed this WORD before becoming flesh was with GOD at the very beginning, without this WORD, nothing was made that has been made . [size=9pt]@frosbel; one more thing, please for purposes of this debate, we will only use one translation of the bible which you will choose. This is so that we don't mock God's word by pitting translations against each other. I believe that you hold that the bible is the inerrant word of God and it will be our final authority. RSV and the NIV should suffice. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 10:12am On Oct 09, 2012 |
@ Frosbel, Not to worry, everyone can clearly see who is the habitual liar, forger and antichrist. *smiles* Meanwhile continue wrestling with the Holy Spirit: italo: Holy Spirit: "He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 10:19am On Oct 09, 2012 |
italo: @ Frosbel, I was in that church for many years and it almost destroyed me, SATAN himself owns the vatican , google it |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 11:13am On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: italo: Holy Spirit: "He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 11:17am On Oct 09, 2012 |
italo: Holy Spirit: "He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." God's WORD which became flesh was in the beginning with GOD , no ? Also God's wisdom which is a SHE was also with GOD at the beginning , no ? Okay , let me give you an example . Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding, 14 for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her ...... 19 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place; 20 by his knowledge the watery depths were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew - Proverbs 3 If we use your logic to analyse the scripture above : 1. We will call wisdom a divine being 2. And refer to her as a She Which means , she must have pre-existed with God and helped him with creation , no ? Mate , if you cannot perform a thorough bible study on your own, no one can help you. Relying on church tradition till condemn you to HELL. Frosbel: 'He was never with God in the beginning. Nothing was made through him; without him everything was made that has been made' And so was WISDOM, God made everything through HER , no ? Jesus: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." And how does ALPHA and OMEGA make one GOD. What about 'firstborn from the dead' or 'the beginning of the creation of GOD' , should we overlook these terms used to describe Jesus. What about Jesus calling GOD his GOD , should we just skip over this and render it's meaning irrelevant. The Catholic church is a habitual LIAR , forger and possesses the spirit of the antiChrist , that has an immense disdain for everything relating to GOD. Jesus: "Before Abraham was, I AM." Again, the result of poor study. In Hebrew culture, to say that you are before someone means that you are greater than them , and even if we take this literally , was it not GOD who was speaking through Christ Jesus, was God not one with his SON through HIS Spirit. I don't speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it - John 12:49 Should we then throw away half of the bible that says GOD is ONE , just to please the PAGAN catholic church. I say God forbid. That is what anti-Catholicism does to a man. I am anti-catholic till death To depart from the truth gradually but eventually leads to anarchy and lunacy and heresy. You mean truths , like praying with a Pagan rosary , chanting to dead saints, a gibberish of a mass, sun worship and all that pagan stuff. No Sir. Let me remain a heretic. Jesus is LORD, GOD is ONE and the Catholic Church is the HARLOT Church not the real one. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 12:11pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: I just asked ubenidictus to explain what Jesus being the 1st born of all creation means...he said 1st born there means pre-eminence... Trinitarians say that “first-born” here means prime, most excellent, most distinguished; thus Christ would be understood to be, not part of creation, but the most distinguished in relation to those who were created. If that is so, and if the Trinity doctrine is true, why are the Father and the holy spirit not also said to be the firstborn of all creation? But the Bible applies this expression only to the Son. According to the customary meaning of “firstborn,” it indicates that Jesus is the eldest in Yahweh’s family of sons. Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies—the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals. What, then, causes some to ascribe a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage or is it a belief to which they already hold and for which they seek proof? Then how do we explain Jesus being the 1st born from the dead... Did Jesus escape death??wasn't Jesus part of the Family of all those who tested death and indeed die??...and ofcus we know Yahweh isn't part of that group..... Trinitarians just twist words to suit there beliefs even when the truth is staring right in there faces..... 3 Likes |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 6:57pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel:Ok good, so you agree that the Word was with God from the beginning. In other words, it is the same person, all that happened was that He took on another form i.e. the form of a man. So I am right in saying that the Son (also known as the Word) has been existing from the begining. Now my question to you is: Do you agree that the Word is eternal (i.e. has neither beginning nor end)? If you agree that the Word exists eternally, then my next question would be: doesn't this mean that the Word is God? (remember that God by definition is the One who is from everlasting to everlasting) If you disagree that the Word is eternal, then you will have to show us from scripture where God created the Word (i.e where the Word came into existence) or where the scripture hints that the Word can be destroyed (or cease to exist). |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 8:14pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: God's WORD which he used to create the world has always been with him as his WORD , not a being. Now my question to you is: Do you agree that the Word is eternal (i.e. has neither beginning nor end)? Indeed as GOD is eternal with neither beginning nor end , so is his WORD. If you agree that the Word exists eternally, then my next question would be: doesn't this mean that the Word is God? (remember that God by definition is the One who is from everlasting to everlasting) I am assuming by WORD you mean WORD in the actual sense, in which case I concur. If you disagree that the Word is eternal, then you will have to show us from scripture where God created the Word (i.e where the Word came into existence) or where the scripture hints that the Word can be destroyed (or cease to exist). God's WORD is eternal. |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Enigma(m): 9:00pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
@ Mr Anony Sorry for butting in (and hope I do not derail the discussion) but the following questions are "asking to be asked" following our friend's posts! God's "Word" is "Word" in the actual sense"! God's "Word" became flesh ---- in Jesus, as I understand our friend. OK then: When God's "Word" had become flesh in Jesus, did God have any other "Word" or "Words"? During Jesus' baptism (when Jesus was already God's "Word" in the flesh) God was heard saying "words" "This is my beloved Son etc": are these "words" of God "words in the actual sense"? Are these God's "words" different from God's "Word"? If God's "Word" had already become flesh, how and where did God then find another "word" or other "words" to speak afterwards? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 9:03pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Enigma: @ Mr Anony We are waiting for you HERE |
Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by MrAnony1(m): 9:20pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: By God's Word, I mean exactly the same as God's Son. If you agree that the Word became flesh i.e took on a human form, then I hold that the Word is the same as Christ i.e. Jesus Christ is the Word in human form. If on the other hand, you say that the Son is not the same as the Word, then you will be saying that Christ is not the Word i.e. Christ is not the personification of God's Word but rather was spoken into existence (created by the Word) As it stands here, It is either the Word became flesh and walked among us (Jesus Christ) and after His time on earth, went back to being eternal or if you insist that the Word is in the sense of actual words, then you must hold that: Christ is not the Word but that God brought Christ into existence by His Word. Over to you. |
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