seyibrown:

ROMANS 6: 1-5
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Baptism or no baptism, when God forgives your sins, he forgives them. That you get baptised in water or not does not mean God will 'use your former sins against you'. The idea behind baptism and forgiveness is to 'go and sin no more', and start afresh! Water baptism is only symbolic, unlike Holy-Spirit baptism. Water baptism is a ceremony outwardly demonstrating what has happened on the inside. Water baptism is not a pre-condition to becoming born-again or for Holy spirit baptism. Being dipped in water does not affect your inner-man; anybody can get dipped in water or dip people in water. It is your inner-man that cannot be touched by physical water that gets born-again, renewed and baptised by the spirit of God.

As those who have been water baptised will confirm, the ceremony does not stop you from sinning. It is the spirit of God within you that helps you do that, and yet, it is still your choice to sin or not to sin, post-water baptism.

seyibrown:

ROMANS 6: 1-5
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Baptism or no baptism, when God forgives your sins, he forgives them. That you get baptised in water or not does not mean God will 'use your former sins against you'. The idea behind baptism and forgiveness is to 'go and sin no more', and start afresh! Water baptism is only symbolic, unlike Holy-Spirit baptism. Water baptism is a ceremony outwardly demonstrating what has happened on the inside. Water baptism is not a pre-condition to becoming born-again or for Holy spirit baptism. Being dipped in water does not affect your inner-man; anybody can get dipped in water or dip people in water. It is your inner-man that cannot be touched by physical water that gets born-again, renewed and baptised by the spirit of God.

As those who have been water baptised will confirm, the ceremony does not stop you from sinning. It is the spirit of God within you that helps you do that, and yet, it is still your choice to sin or not to sin, post-water baptism.

Pastor AIO: I am of the opinion that baptism (water) has a real effect on the spirit of the person being baptized and it is not 'only' symbolic.

Pastor AIO: I am of the opinion that baptism (water) has a real effect on the spirit of the person being baptized and it is not 'only' symbolic.

If the wages of sin is spiritual death after judgement, then I will want to ask that what is spiritual death? Is it similar to the phisical death or not.

Romans 6:1-7

the principle of baptism is based on the basis of death and resurrection.

Dipping in water and bringing up.

Dying and resurrecting.

Death to former sins and resurrecting as a new person(free from sin) Ofcouse the wages of sin is death, at death you pay for the wages.

For those that God consider to merit the benefit of resurection Ofcouse, among those that had never heard about the christ. Isaiah 5:20.

What happens to one after baptism is what happens to one at resurection.

Pastor AIO: I am of the opinion that baptism (water) has a real effect on the spirit of the person being baptized and it is not 'only' symbolic.

Baptism is indeed symbolic.

Truthislife nailed it in his comment

truthislight: Romans 6:1-7

the principle of baptism is based on the basis of death and resurrection.

Dipping in water and bringing up.

Dying and resurrecting.

Death to former sins and resurrecting as a new person(free from sin) Ofcouse the wages of sin is death, at death you pay for the wages.

You can look up every occurrence of 'Baptism' in the Bible. Read the context and U will get a clear overall understanding. One person will get baptized and feel nothing while another will feel ecstatic, like something has happened to him on the inside. It is much like the different ways people receive salvation. Some break down and cry while some don't. Some in the presence of thousands of people in a crusade ground while some alone in their bedroom, and each of them had a genuine experience.
It is best and safe to believe what the Word of God says and stop where it stops and not allow our varying experiences add to or extrapolate the Word of God.

On this 'water baptism' matter, please, let us see Matthew 3: 7 - 17

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%203:7-17&version=NIV

[size=14pt]Matthew 3:7-17[/size] (NIV)

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with[a] water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[b] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The Baptism of Jesus

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

John tells the Pharisees and the Saduducees who came for 'water baptism' to 'bear fruits that meet with repentance'. This means after you are water-baptised, you still need to bear good fruits. The water-baptism does not make it easier to stop sinning. John goes on to tell them that someone was coming after him who will baptise them with the Holy Spirit and Fire.

I agree with ecoleco's point that people will feel differently after baptism. Not everyone gets a dove descend upon them in the physical after their water baptism and a voice declaring their sonship like Jesus, as many people got water-baptised before Jesus and they got no physical dove or declaration. I no of no one other than Jesus in this present age who has had a physical declaration upon their baptism. This may happen in the spiritual to some ( in part-agreement with Pastor AIO). I opine that water-baptism is akin to physical circumcision as Holy-spirit baptism is akin to 'circumcision of the heart' on the basis that 'circumcision of the heart' was called for over 'circumcision of the flesh'. In both cases, the latter is more important that the former, and in most cases the latter happens and the former does not happen at all, and where the former happens with people old enough to make a conscious decision in understanding, the latter happens before the first. Water-baptism may not be only symbolic (as opined by Pastor AIO) but Holy-Spirit baptism is much more important. Jesus humself persuaded John to water-baptise him to 'fulfil all righteousness'. I continue to search the scriptures.

Nice one seyibrown...really nice one!

Tanx to all who have contributed,have really gained.tanx

ecoleco:
■ Please some one with good knowledge of Escatology should respond to this question: How will God judge those that died without ever hearing of Jesus Christ. For instance those that lived before the time of Christ and those that live in the remotest places of the earth where real missionary work has been done. Thank you.

God's judgment against them was established since the beginning.

19 You will work hard for your food, until your face is covered with sweat. You will work hard until the day you die, and then you will become dust again. I used dust to make you, and when you die, you will become dust again.”
20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve.[d] He gave her this name because Eve would be the mother of everyone who ever lived.
21 The Lord God used animal skins and made some clothes for the man and his wife. Then he put the clothes on them.
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”
23 So the Lord God forced the man out of the Garden of Eden to work the ground he was made from.
24 God forced the man to leave the garden. Then he put Cherub angels and a sword of fire at the entrance to the garden to protect it. The sword flashed around and around, guarding the way to the Tree of Life. - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24

kennz:
D bible says God is not impertialy nd Jesus sed d gud news of d kngdm wil be prichd in all d inhabited erth,moreso d scrpture also mention d resurection of both rghteous nd unrghteous. Durin Chrst one thousand milenial reign,provsion wil be med 4dos wu neva herd Gods word,dese ones wil taught d teachins of truth nd Gods plans for rghteous one.
So hw dis wil occur is left for God to dcide. all we nid do is repent nd turn to him cos he'l neva fget our wrks in his servce,den he wil act wen its due

I am afraid that is not true at all. Such a thing which you claim is not written or suggested in all of Scripture.

truthislight:
■ John 5:28,29 for this: acts 17:31 at this, Rev 20:1-15. Peace

None of those address the issue as God's judgement against all of mankind is found in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 24