Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,154,677 members, 7,823,912 topics. Date: Friday, 10 May 2024 at 06:06 PM

Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment - Politics - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment (11542 Views)

Crack In APC Widens: Buhari, Tinubu Disagree On Way Forward / GMB And Tinubu Disagree On Ministers, Transition Team? - Believeafrica.net / 6 Geo Political Zones (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (Reply) (Go Down)

Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by EkoIle1: 1:16am On Oct 19, 2012
Eminent Nigerians yesterday disagreed on the desirability or otherwise of a new constitution for the country and sustenance of the existing six geo-political zones, as the basis of relationship between the federating units. The occasion was the international colloquium with the theme: “Federalism: Building on the Ekwueme Legacy,” held in Abuja in celebration of the 80th birthday of former vice-president, Dr Alex Ekwueme.
Setting the tone for the discourse, [b]Lagos State Governor, Raji Fashola, lauded the former vice-president for being the initiator of the present six geo-political zones arrangement, but expressed concern over its workability as federating units.
The Lagos State governor further called for moral rebirth on the part of Nigerians, as he noted that Nigerians must develop a sincerity of purpose to make the new constitution being envisaged work.
“What is under constitution consideration is whether a constitution amendment is really what we want. What lies at the heart of the clamour is the desire for a better life, not really a better document. Nigerians want to pay school fees, feed themselves and work. The Constitution is just an agreement on how we relate to one another. Its effectiveness depends on our sincerity to honour agreement. We don’t have electoral malpractices, because the constitution is bad; our roads are bad for motorists not because the constitution is bad. The crash of the stock exchange isn’t because the constitution is bad.
“Those things that frustrate our people cannot be put at the doorstep of the Constitution. It lies in our diminishing values. I must not be mistaken that we don’t need a Constitution; what I am saying is that the Constitution cannot be driven by itself. It must be driven by people with values.”[/b]
But Anambra State Governor, Peter Obi in his remarks submitted that a document skewed against a certain zone in the country would only earn their respect if it was based on justice.
“The constitution isn’t more than an agreement. If the agreement is based on injustice, as a person from South East, what do I do? Do I respect the agreement, or renege on it? There must be respect for every zone. If it doesn’t respect every zone, then you must seek for an amendment. In an agreement where one group has six states and another has five states, do you stay in such agreement? It must be based on justice and equity for all of us to respect it.”

Former Information Minister and Chairman of South South Assembly, Chief Edwin Clark in his presentation advocated the abolition of states and the entrenchment of zones, as federating units as canvassed by Chief Alex Ekwueme during the 1994 Constitutional Conference. The Ijaw leader dismissed the present 1999 Constitution as a military document that should be subjected to rigorous amendment at a national conference. “I agree with those who say there must be a new constitution. A situation where some zone have six states and another five, let us review it, based on experts advice—not on sentiments.
“The thirty six states governors have no initiative, they only come to Abuja at the end of every month to collect from the Federation Account, thinking that will solve the problems. “I think we should abolish the states and strengthen the zones. We need a national conference, because the National Assembly is arrogating to itself, the power to look at the constitution. “Let the federating units meet and submit their deliberations to the National Assembly. What we have now is a military document; we must deliberate so that we can have a federation of equal partners.
“So, I believe the six geo-political zones, suggested by Dr. Alex Ekwueme should be the federating units of this country.”


http://sunnewsonline.com/new/national/ekwueme-at-80-fashola-obi-differ-on-constitution-review/
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by ektbear: 1:38am On Oct 19, 2012
Hmm. One of the few times I've found myself disagreeing with Fash.

4 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Nobody: 1:58am On Oct 19, 2012
Obi is perfectly correct. Bad, unfair laws are inherently unenforceable. If a law is against logic, justice, common sense and above all anti-people, it becomes unenforceable. You can't enforce a bad document and expect a serene peace that lasts forever. Nigeria constitution is bad, is fraud and skewed to favor a particular section of the country. There is a sense of general injustice across the country.

We need a new constitution that gives a Nigeria we can all die for.

6 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by amor4ce(m): 1:58am On Oct 19, 2012
I'd prefer semi-autonomous zones which would each receive revenue allocation based on revenue generation. Zones can then decide to amalgamate or create states and local governments, and redefine internal borders based on financial/economic strength. Zones would thus be forced to cut their coats according to their clothes and provide enabling environments for revenue generation by the populace. Ethnic nationalities should also choose which zones they want to belong to. Also, some ethnic nationalities would be encouraged to come together on mutually agreed terms for better and economic clout. My opinion

4 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by MajeOfficial: 2:00am On Oct 19, 2012
Well i agree with him. What good is a constitution to a lawless people?
What flaw is in the constitution. Nobody can point to one single flaw, but they want the whole document abolished
The flaws of nigeria on the other hand, any and everyone can make you a 100 page list of those. So where is the problem?
Nigerians. We're the problem. Our system as written works, our system as practiced doesn't.

For instance, everyone wants a sovereign national conference. Our constitution designed our National Assembly to be a perpetual and active SNC.
All federating units are democratically elected to debate the nations issues and organization.
Still nigerians use rigging and voting for 'big men' to turn it into a den of thieves void of creative ideas and input.

zoning will turn inter state conflict into civil wars.

1 Like

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by EkoIle1: 2:01am On Oct 19, 2012
I went over this issue several times and finally reasoned with Fashola.


Fashola's point = Let's change our ways first before clamoring for constitutional changes because even the laws we have right now we don't obey and respect because of our lawless ways so what's the point.

4 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by MajeOfficial: 2:06am On Oct 19, 2012
exactly. People dont even know the laws but want them changed. We're scapegoating the constitution for their problems but can't name a single law or clause that they disagree with.
I've read the constitution to find 'the flaw'. I couldn't. It's the fact that what's in our constitution isn't followed.


the constitution gives provisions for changing the parts of it you don't agree with. Yet Nigerians, because we have the mentality of building something new instead of maintaining or improving something old, will never agree. This is the problem with our buildings, roads, schools, etc. Someone will build a new school instead of making the schools on the ground work class producing millions of educated illiterates. Now we want to use that same mentality and start from ground zero with our constitution as proposed by people who can't tell you what in the constitution they disagree with.

2 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Nobody: 2:13am On Oct 19, 2012
[quote author=]exactly. People dont even know the laws but want them changed. We're scapegoating the constitution for their problems but can't name a single law or clause that they disagree with.
I've read the constitution to find 'the flaw'. I couldn't. It's the fact that what's in our constitution isn't followed.


the constitution gives provisions for changing the parts of it you don't agree with. Yet Nigerians, because we have the mentality of building something new instead of maintaining or improving something old, will never agree. This is the problem with our buildings, roads, schools, etc. Someone will build a new school instead of making the schools on the ground work class producing millions of educated illiterates. Now we want to use that same mentality and start from ground zero with our constitution as proposed by people who can't tell you what in the constitution they disagree with.

[/quote]
Have you ever wondered who wrote this constitution and in whose interest?

2 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Awake9ja(m): 3:06am On Oct 19, 2012
the topic of the post is wrong and deceiving.

let it be something like " elites disagree in constitution amendment "

because fashola and obi are not the only people in the meeting. otherwise the poster wants to play yoruba fight again here.

but on my own veiw fashola was wrong. the constitution that give a acceptance to sharia and did not permit other religous commandment has to be changed.

in a country that i am a citizen which does not prohibit selling and drinking of alchohol why should somebody say that i should nof sell it or destroys my comodity and still have constitutional backing.

men we need amendments in that constitution.

2 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by nduchucks: 3:16am On Oct 19, 2012
How can Fashola or anyone who hopes to rule Nigeria have any problem whatsoever with amending our constitution or even rewriting it? Is it not senseless to call for social engineering which could take generations for its effect to be actualized, instead of amending the constitution or rewriting it?

I am beginning to feel that Fashola may not have what it takes to move Nigeria forward. His talents are probably limited to managing entities such as cities and small states.

Obi is on point here and even the old coot Edwin Clark, is making more sense than Fashola.

4 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Awake9ja(m): 3:28am On Oct 19, 2012
what fashola says is totaly anti progressive nigeria.

how can he even think of that, if he fashola is a state or region who happen to be in the other end of disadvantaged constitution, will he obey or enjoy such constitution or will he want it amended to make everybody happy and feel belonging?

if fashola has no ulterio motives behind his statement or that he is blind and that makes him unfit to rule even lagos.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Johndoe100(m): 3:30am On Oct 19, 2012
While Fshola has a point. The main thrust of his continued doubts about restructuring Nigeria arise from the adverse effects this will have on the economy of his state.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by PointB: 3:33am On Oct 19, 2012
I sensed that the serious challenge or 'betrayal' of regionalism with it's attendant benefit of fiscal federalism, potential regional police, regional integration, and healthy competition will come from the ACN/SW. That Fashola will be the poster boy of this betrayal is indeed shameful.

But all hope is not lost. ACN/SW should decide what they want; chasing with the hound and running with the hare is not exactly the way to build lasting trust, and harmony. One would have thought that Fashola be circumspect over this, and look out for the interest of the unborn Lagosians/Nigerian who want to live in atmosphere of peace, and goodwill in their country.

In any case, if regionalism can not be achieved because of the discordant voice from the South (West), then SE and SS should insist on having 7 states each as we have in the NW. They should also demand parity representation with the NE/NW the National Assembly. Furthermore, revenue allocation should be based on contribution, not on population.

Fashola fall my hand seriously.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by PointB: 3:37am On Oct 19, 2012
Johndoe100: While Fshola has a point. The main thrust of his continued doubts about restructuring Nigeria arise from the adverse effects this will have on the economy of his state.

I disagree. Fashola is being myopic here. His state Lagos has more to benefit from true fiscal federalism, even if the Zones become the federating units.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by OdenigboAroli(m): 3:40am On Oct 19, 2012
Obi is a very wise man; All these people who are slandering his name are doing so out of jealousy.He examines things thoroughly before he makes a decision. The almighty will vindicate this man in the end.

1 Like

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by naptu2: 3:48am On Oct 19, 2012
They didn't exactly disagree. I think the disagreement part was just a bid by the journalist to hype the story. I agree with both of them.

1) I agree with Fashola. We might have the best constitution in the world, but it would be pointless if we don't change the behaviour of the people.

Constitutions are not perfect documents and there is no perfect constitution, because constitutions are made by humans who are imperfect. No matter what constitution we have, people will still find a loophole in it with which they'll do whatever they want. Should we obey the spirit or the letter of the constitution?

Furthermore, a constitution is a document that does not enforce itself. How will the people charged with interpreting and enforcing the constitution behave?

Mind you, Fashola stated clearly that he is not against constitutional change, but he believes that this should go hand in hand with behavioural change.


2) I also agree with Obi. In order to
secure compliance with the constitution and to foster peace and unity, the people must have confidence in the constitution and believe that it is fair and protects their rights and interests.

12 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Theben(m): 3:51am On Oct 19, 2012
I think Fashola's opinion on the constitution amendment is being misconstrued. He feels the solution to Nigerian problem isn't the constitution, we've not followed the constitution on ground yet we're clamouring for a change. What is the need of amending the constution that won't be followed? It is a case of misplaced priority.

1 Like

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by PointB: 3:55am On Oct 19, 2012
Theben: I think Fashola's opinion on the constitution amendment is being misconstrued. He feels the solution to Nigerian problem isn't the constitution, we've not followed the constitution on ground yet we're clamouring for a change. What is the need of amending the constution that won't be followed? It is a case of misplaced priority.

Point in that the constitution does not guarantee equity and fairness. It does not encourage healthy competition, on the contrary it encourages indolence and over reliance on the center. Changing those aspect of the constitution is in overall interest of the country - that is what Fashola is suppose to aim for - not his needless intellectualism!
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by birdman(m): 3:58am On Oct 19, 2012
I just read that several times, and I think the title is sensationalist. Fashola and Obi arent disagreeing on anything. Since both are politicians, if I were to read between the lines, Fashola doesn't want a federally mandated geo-political partition. He wants something organic, where states self-choose who they align with, similar to what the ACN is trying to do now. Obi really doesnt care about the zones either. He just wants one more SE state for better political leverage.

I for one will take Fashola's stance. I cannot trust the FG to partition zones in a way that will actually make those zones independent of the FG. Power is NEVER given over voluntarily. I'll take my chances with like-minded states forming stronger bonds. I think this is the underlying message Fashola may be trying to pass across.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by kunlekunle: 4:02am On Oct 19, 2012
Fashola is more concerned about leadership and the way forward, the magnanimity of the leaders and how virtuos they are. He was talking about a generic demodratic ideology and philosophy for nigeria.
Even Mandela when asked why he did not kick the whites out of SA, he said he hasnt got enough intelligent people to man the nation, he said he would require 100,000 intelligent people.

if we ammend the constitution today along the zonal lines, would that stop the IBORIS amongst us?
Democracy is not just having the laws, its understanding and knowing it and living it. its a way of live.

1 Like

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by james1(m): 4:06am On Oct 19, 2012
Fashola was on point;its not the constitution that causes things to be bad but the people not following the ditates of the constitution.
What we need is not abolishing but amendment;when we agree and keeps amending it,we will get what we want eventually.the US constitution is over 200 years old and they still amend when ever its deemed to be in tune with present realities.
I used the US as an example becourse we practice presidential system of democracy.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Xfactoria: 4:10am On Oct 19, 2012
Fashola is correct! The essence of having a constitutional amendment would be lost if we don't arrest our declining values. Obi just didn't get the point. How will having six states in the South East prevent erosion, kidnapping, joblessness, bad roads, poor educational facilities etc? The vigour with which the South East is pursuing additional states makes it look like that is the solution to all their problems.

I support Ekwueme and Clark on thrashing the States and having Regions or geo-political zones as the federating units. The malicious and annoying crave for more states would be totally unnecessary. The craving for more states by politicians is for one selfish reason which is to make the cake go round. Some people know they can only be Governors or whatever if they create a new state in their zones whether they are viable states or not. There are many states today that have no business being called a state. They don't do more than pay salaries, tar a few kilometers of road and dig a few wells/boreholes. Government should do much more than that. Another justification for a Regional structure is the economics of the region that would be better under a unitary regional government with a civil service size and political offices as what is obtainable in one state today. Imagine all the salaries of 5 states channeled towards education? The savings can be better channeled to important developmental projects. The last time we had accelerated developments in this country were the times of the Regional governments. With the Regional structure, we can better focus on local governments, strengthen them and hold them accountable on many grounds. Today, we blame the President and on rare ocassions, the Governors and forget totally about LG Chairmen and allow them free-ride.

2 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by bittyend(m): 4:15am On Oct 19, 2012
I concur with what Fashola and Edward Clark said.

As for Obi, he said a lot without actually saying anything. What has done for his state? He needs to shut up!
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by manny4life(m): 4:17am On Oct 19, 2012
The both men seem to be right in their argument.

I agree with Fashola that

“Those things that frustrate our people cannot be put at the doorstep of the Constitution. It lies in our diminishing values. I must not be mistaken that we don’t need a Constitution; what I am saying is that the Constitution cannot be driven by itself. It must be driven by people with values.”

Also, I agree with Obi that

“The constitution isn’t more than an agreement. If the agreement is based on injustice, as a person from South East, what do I do? Do I respect the agreement, or renege on it? There must be respect for every zone. If it doesn’t respect every zone, then you must seek for an amendment."

Question is, where is the balance?

1 Like

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by PointB: 4:21am On Oct 19, 2012
X-factoria:
Fashola is correct! The essence of having a constitutional amendment would be lost if we don't arrest our declining values. Obi just didn't get the point. How will having six states in the South East prevent erosion, kidnapping, joblessness, bad roads, poor educational facilities etc? The vigour with which the South East is pursuing additional states makes it look like that is the solution to all their problems.

I support Ekwueme and Clark on thrashing the States and having Regions or geo-political zones as the federating units. The malicious and annoying crave for more states would be totally unnecessary. The craving for more states by politicians is for one selfish reason which is to make the cake go round. Some people know they can only be Governors or whatever if they create a new state in their zones whether they are viable states or not. There are many states today that have no business being called a state. They don't do more than pay salaries, tar a few kilometers of road and dig a few wells/boreholes. Government should do much more than that. Another justification for a Regional structure is the economics of the region that would be better under a unitary regional government with a civil service size and political offices as what is obtainable in one state today. Imagine all the salaries of 5 states channeled towards education? The savings can be better channeled to important developmental projects. The last time we had accelerated developments in this country were the times of the Regional governments. With the Regional structure, we can better focus on local governments, strengthen them and hold them accountable on many grounds. Today, we blame the President and on rare ocassions, the Governors and forget totally about LG Chairmen and allow them free-ride.

What indication do you have from the article that Fashola supports regionalism as you put it? Fashola doesn't appear to suppport anything other than his simplistic call for attitudinal changes.

Somehow I think Fashola is being hypocritical here. How many laws has he enacted in Lagos state this year alone - many targeting Okadas riders, drivers, agberoes and others. Why did he preach the gospel of attitudinal changes to them. Recently, Fashola muted the idea of enacting a law that forces Lagos residents to change their 'foreign' car plate number to that of Lagos. My point again is, are those laws really needed? Why not suggest change in behavior in a subtle way as he is suggesting now?

If he sincere believe amendment of laws, or new laws are need to fix his state, why can't same apply at the national level. There is something very wrong with Fashola's posture. Simple.

3 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Nobody: 4:23am On Oct 19, 2012
.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by slimming: 4:30am On Oct 19, 2012
Will can crash the state palaver and create our selfs into zones, and if the current 6 zones are not ok, we can cteate more.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Ade0001(m): 4:32am On Oct 19, 2012
PointB:

What indication do you have from the article that Fashola supports regionalism as you put it? Fashola doesn't appear to suppport anything other than his simplistic call for attitudinal changes.

Somehow I think Fashola is being hypocritical here. How many laws has he enacted in Lagos state this year alone - many targeting Okadas riders, drivers, agberoes and others. Why did he preach the gospel of attitudinal changes to them. Recently, Fashola muted the idea of enacting a law that forces Lagos residents to change their 'foreign' car plate number to that of Lagos. My point again is, are those laws really needed? Why not suggest change in behavior in a subtle way as he is suggesting now?

If he sincere believe amendment of laws, or new laws are need to fix his state, why can't same apply at the national level. There is something very wrong with Fashola's posture. Simple.


@PointB, i think Fash is not only preaching attitudinal changes,

The Lagos State governor further called for moral rebirth on the part of Nigerians, as he noted that Nigerians must develop a sincerity of purpose to make the new constitution being envisaged work.
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by PointB: 4:36am On Oct 19, 2012
Ade0001:


@PointB, i think Fash is not only preaching attitudinal changes,

The Lagos State governor further called for moral rebirth on the part of Nigerians, as he noted that Nigerians must develop a sincerity of purpose to make the new constitution being envisaged work.

I am concerned that he is sounding rather too academical and evasive.

Let me put it this way:

Does Fashola support creation of new states or regionalism?
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Tunmi(f): 5:05am On Oct 19, 2012
I want to ask, what is the benefit of these zones? In the US, the zones merely have historical value and a sense of pride: New England, the South, the West. It's more of society's value on them. With Nigeria's zones, is it just society's value or is there monetary value as well? Is money allocated to a zone or to zones?
Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by EagleNest(m): 5:24am On Oct 19, 2012
I don't understand why people want to bias these statements to be Igbo vs Yoruba discuss.
These two governors weren't the only speakers at the forum. How healthy are our minds.
Exactly what Fashola is saying our attitudes needs changing including that of the poster who titled this post as Fashola & Obi disagreeing.

For me the two governors opinion are all good only that one should come before the other in implementation.
The constitution need to be accepted by all parties then obeying it will be a lot easier. One of the biggest problem with Nigeria is fear of change.
When something is not working we still stick to it b/c we are uncertain about the consequences of change.It's not only the constitution that need change but also the current leadership at the center.

3 Likes

Re: Fashola, Obi Disagree On Geo-political Zones, Constitutional Amendment by Xfactoria: 5:26am On Oct 19, 2012
PointB:

What indication do you have from the article that Fashola supports regionalism as you put it? Fashola doesn't appear to suppport anything other than his simplistic call for attitudinal changes.

Somehow I think Fashola is being hypocritical here. How many laws has he enacted in Lagos state this year alone - many targeting Okadas riders, drivers, agberoes and others. Why did he preach the gospel of attitudinal changes to them. Recently, Fashola muted the idea of enacting a law that forces Lagos residents to change their 'foreign' car plate number to that of Lagos. My point again is, are those laws really needed? Why not suggest change in behavior in a subtle way as he is suggesting now?

If he sincere believe amendment of laws, or new laws are need to fix his state, why can't same apply at the national level. There is something very wrong with Fashola's posture. Simple.

And where did I mention that Fashola supported Regionalization? Can't you see there were two different paragraphs saying different things? Please re-read my post and stop making things up!

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (Reply)

Shocking: Ghostly Image Captured In Fatal Accident Photo / My Predecessor Spent N2.3bn On Burial In Five Months – Bauchi Gov / LP Releases Communique, To Release Supplementary List For Campaign Council

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 89
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.