Now that we have over flogged this trinity dogma, I think it is time to discuss JESUS and his specialness and uniqueness in the entire universe.

When asked who do you say that I am , Peter called JESUS the Son of GOD or Messiah , Nathaniel called him Messiah and even demons called him Son of the most high.

Jesus is not just another prophet like Muhammad or Buddha, he is the first born of creation , firstborn from the dead, the Son of GOD but also the Son of MAN, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings over all the angels and kings on earth and in heaven, he is the righteousness of GOD , the slayer of the serpent, our redeemer, the lover of our souls, and he is the judge of mankind.

Jesus gives life , this command he received from the father, the father has put him in charge of everything but when the final end comes , Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the father that the father may be all in all.

No man or woman or angel can be compared to Christ , he has hated iniquity and loved righteousness, he has a far more excellent name than even the angels and he is indeed the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world for the purging away of our sins. He is the one that rejoices over us and joins us in the praise of his father where 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name.

He was born through a virgin, found himself as a MAN and took the path of opposition to the system of this world, he rejected the favour of the world , the delicacies of evil and refused to submit to the pleasures of sin for a season.

Let us be clear. JESUS is unique , no one can be compared to him, all the rest who are so called prophets are thieves and robbers, they try to steal the souls of men through the back door or even windows , but Jesus came through the front door, the exact representative of GOD and he only is the right way to enter into kingdom of GOD.

JESUS Christ is the ONLY WAY , TRUTH and LIFE.

Nice one frosbel.

frosbel: Now that we have over flogged this trinity dogma, I think it is time to discuss JESUS and his specialness and uniqueness in the entire universe.

When asked who do you say that I am , Peter called JESUS the Son of GOD or Messiah , Nathaniel called him Messiah and even demons called him Son of the most high.

Jesus is not just another prophet like Muhammad or Buddha, he is the first born of creation , firstborn from the dead, the Son of GOD but also the Son of MAN, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings over all the angels and kings on earth and in heaven, he is the righteousness of GOD , the slayer of the serpent, our redeemer, the lover of our souls, and he is the judge of mankind.

Jesus gives life , this command he received from the father, the father has put him in charge of everything but when the final end comes , Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the father that the father may be all in all.

No man or woman or angel can be compared to Christ , he has hated iniquity and loved righteousness, he has a far more excellent name than even the angels and he is indeed the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world for the purging away of our sins. He is the one that rejoices over us and joins us in the praise of his father where 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name.

He was born through a virgin, found himself as a MAN and took the path of opposition to the system of this world, he rejected the favour of the world , the delicacies of evil and refused to submit to the pleasures of sin for a season.

Let us be clear. JESUS is unique , no one can be compared to him, all the rest who are so called prophets are thieves and robbers, they try to steal the souls of men through the back door or even windows , but Jesus came through the front door, the exact representative of GOD and he only is the right way to enter into kingdom of GOD.

JESUS Christ is the ONLY WAY , TRUTH and LIFE.

1. Since Jesus gives life........Who then is he
2. Firstborn of creatION and firstborn of creatURES......Are they the same

Goshen360:

1. Since Jesus gives life........Who then is he
2. Firstborn of creatION and firstborn of creatURES......Are they the same

Who gave him the authority to give life is the question you should ask yourself ?

The mere fact that the word First born of creation is used means he was created.

God himself was never created and cannot be referred to as the first born of creation.

frosbel:


Who gave him the authority to give life is the question you should ask yourself ?

The mere fact that the word First born of creation is used means he was created.

God himself was never created and cannot be referred to as the first born of creation.

And you still didn't answer the question.......CreatION and creatURES, which one was Jesus called firstborn of

Goshen360:

And you still didn't answer the question.......CreatION and creatURES, which one was Jesus called firstborn of

what does the word 'BORN' mean to you.

Honestly this Trinity na real delusion ooooo

frosbel:

what does the word 'BORN' mean to you.

Honestly this Trinity na real delusion ooooo

I have told you, forget about trinity or no trinity, concentrate on what the bible says. Is Jesus firstBORN of creation or creatURES, which one I believe you know the different between creatION and creatURES right .....You know say we never start dey open bibeli mimo......

Goshen360:

I have told you, forget about trinity or no trinity, concentrate on what the bible says. Is Jesus firstBORN of creation or creatURES, which one I believe you know the different between creatION and creatURES right .....You know say we never start dey open bibeli mimo......

you are trying to equate Jesus with YAHWEH , but the mere fact that he was FIRSTBORN totally destroys your logic.

FIRSTBORN means he had a beginning and if he had a beginning he cannot be Almighty GOD.

This is what Oxford's dictionary has to say about first-born.

noun
a person’s first child:
their firstborn arrived

Source - http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/firstborn?q=FIRSTborn

Goshen360:

I have told you, forget about trinity or no trinity, concentrate on what the bible says. Is Jesus firstBORN of creation or creatURES, which one I believe you know the different between creatION and creatURES right .....You know say we never start dey open bibeli mimo......

1....First born of every creature nko??KJV......

2....First born of all creation....(Other translations).

3....Gods 1st born.........

Goshen try to look into those 3 lines and tell me what you don't understand......

See the definition of creation...

cre·a·tion
[kree-ey-shuh n]

-n.
1. the act of producing or causing to exist; the act of creating; engendering.
2. the fact of being created.
3. something that is or has been created.
4. the original bringing into existence of the universe by God.
5. the world; universe.
6. creatures collectively.
7. an original product of the mind, esp. an imaginative artistic work: the creations of a poetic genius.
8. a specially designed dress, hat, or other article of women's clothing, usually distinguished by imaginative or unique styling: the newest Paris creations.


............

Fot the fact that Jesus is ""FIRST BORN of"" all creation of every creature shows clearly that Jesus is part of point 6 from the dictionary meaning I just listed....

Besides frosbel just defined who a 1st born is with regards to family and living beings.....

frosbel:

you are trying to equate Jesus with YAHWEH , but the mere fact that he was FIRSTBORN totally destroys your logic.

FIRSTBORN means he had a beginning and if he had a beginning he cannot be Almighty GOD.

This is what Oxford's dictionary has to say about first-born.

noun
a person’s first child:
their firstborn arrived

Source - http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/firstborn?q=FIRSTborn

On one hand to refer me to lexicon and now referring me to oxford. Openly in the front of the whole world reading us, am NOT saying Jesus is NOT the firstBORN. The question you are trynna dodge is firstBORN of what? We have firstborn of goat, firstborn of human etc. David was the last but was called firstborn. The question you are dodging is Jesus was referred to as firstBORN of creation NOT creatURES.......aren't you getting it. Now tell us, is creat ION and creat URES the same thing

Goshen360:

On one hand to refer me to lexicon and now referring me to oxford. Openly in the front of the whole world reading us, am NOT saying Jesus is NOT the firstBORN. The question you are trynna dodge is firstBORN of what? We have firstborn of goat, firstborn of human etc. David was the last but was called firstborn. The question you are dodging is Jesus was referred to as firstBORN of creation NOT creatURES.......aren't you getting it. Now tell us, is creat ION and creat URES the same thing

You have lost it , I cannot help you , honestly you need to pray for wisdom and read the bible without the lenses of tradition.

frosbel:

You have lost it , I cannot help you , honestly you need to pray for wisdom and read the bible without the lenses of tradition.

Brother, abeg leaf this turn around skills of yours please. I really need you to help me out please. Answer the kweshion sir

ijawkid:

1....First born of every creature nko??KJV......

2....First born of all creation....(Other translations).

3....Gods 1st born.........

Goshen try to look into those 3 lines and tell me what you don't understand......

See the definition of creation...

cre·a·tion
[kree-ey-shuh n]

-n.
1. the act of producing or causing to exist; the act of creating; engendering.
2. the fact of being created.
3. something that is or has been created.
4. the original bringing into existence of the universe by God.
5. the world; universe.
6. creatures collectively.
7. an original product of the mind, esp. an imaginative artistic work: the creations of a poetic genius.
8. a specially designed dress, hat, or other article of women's clothing, usually distinguished by imaginative or unique styling: the newest Paris creations.


............

Fot the fact that Jesus is ""FIRST BORN of"" all creation of every creature shows clearly that Jesus is part of point 6 from the dictionary meaning I just listed....

Besides frosbel just defined who a 1st born is with regards to family and living beings.....

Okay, we wan to start translation wahala now abi........I don't want to enagage in translation issues BUT there is a study I did that gave me the conclusion that Jesus wasn't firstBORN of creatURES BUT of creatIONS.......I know where your own sect belongs on this matter as it is what your sect teach. We can go on and on as to translation wahala but there is a translation that shows the meaning of the creatION being talked about. We will get there soon, if we continue.

Goshen360:

Okay, we wan to start translation wahala now abi........I don't want to enagage in translation issues BUT there is a study I did that gave me the conclusion that Jesus wasn't firstBORN of creatURES BUT of creatIONS.......I know where your own sect belongs on this matter as it is what your sect teach. We can go on and on as to translation wahala but there is a translation that shows the meaning of the creatION being talked about. We will get there soon, if we continue.

was this study based on the bible or the interpretations of men

Is this Trinity dogma so important to you that you are now trying to redefine the English language to make it fit into your doctrine ?

God help us in these end times.

frosbel:

was this study based on the bible or the interpretations of men

Is this Trinity dogma so important to you that you are now trying to redefine the English language to make it fit into your doctrine ?

God help us in these end times.

See brother Frosbel, you are the very one that wants to ripe Jesus off his Deity. My point and argument with you is that, the scripture calls Jesus Christ and some translation may have mislead us BUT the wise thing for us to do as Christians is to leave issues like this the way it is. When you said, Jesus was called god in Heb.1:8, then we can also use same logic to say the Father too is god in John 1:1-2 and some other references where we have Jesus and the Father TOGETHER being referred to as God but rendered different by different translations. This is my argument with you.

Goshen360:

Okay, we wan to start translation wahala now abi........I don't want to enagage in translation issues BUT there is a study I did that gave me the conclusion that Jesus wasn't firstBORN of creatURES BUT of creatIONS.......I know where your own sect belongs on this matter as it is what your sect teach. We can go on and on as to translation wahala but there is a translation that shows the meaning of the creatION being talked about. We will get there soon, if we continue.

Make we no even Go far sef to argue.....

Jesus is called Gods FIRst BORN...

How you wan take translate am??

Abeg talk........

Apart from the fact that Jesus is the"" First born of"" all creation he is also Gods own 1st Born.......

Goshen it is crystal clear o.......

Like I had said......for the 30 times the expression ""1st born of"" appeared in the holy scriptures and when directed to living beings/thing it always had a constant meaning....

The trinity would never let that meaning be established......

If your definition of ""First born of"" Is different from the bibles view point then I don't know what to do........

If your definition of ""first born of"" means supreme of pre eminence ALONE,then you can as well try apllying that to Jesus being Gods FIRST BORN.....

And try to find out if those expressions can be used for the FATHER and the holy spirit(that's if the holy spirit is a person and also GOD)

And don't also forget that Jesus is also the image of the invincible GOD......

These are expressions that can only apply to one who owes his or her existence to the almighty GOD......

Goshen360:

See brother Frosbel, you are the very one that wants to ripe Jesus off his Deity. My point and argument with you is that, the scripture calls Jesus Christ and some translation may have mislead us BUT the wise thing for us to do as Christians is to leave issues like this the way it is. When you said, Jesus was called god in Heb.1:8, then we can also use same logic to say the Father too is god in John 1:1-2 and some other references where we have Jesus and the Father TOGETHER being referred to as God but rendered different by different translations. This is my argument with you.

Goshen I just have one sincere question to ask you.....be very sincere with your answer....

Which GOD do you worship??

Or who is your GOD??

Frosbel, I would to know what Jesus was talking about in John 8:58.

ijawkid:

Make we no even Go far sef to argue.....

Jesus is called Gods FIRst BORN...

How you wan take translate am??

Abeg talk........

Apart from the fact that Jesus is the"" First born of"" all creation he is also Gods own 1st Born.......

Goshen it is crystal clear o.......

Like I had said......for the 30 times the expression ""1st born of"" appeared in the holy scriptures and when directed to living beings/thing it always had a constant meaning....

The trinity would never let that meaning be established......

If your definition of ""First born of"" Is different from the bibles view point then I don't know what to do........

If your definition of ""first born of"" means supreme of pre eminence ALONE,then you can as well try apllying that to Jesus being Gods FIRST BORN.....

And try to find out if those expressions can be used for the FATHER and the holy spirit(that's if the holy spirit is a person and also GOD)

And don't also forget that Jesus is also the image of the invincible GOD......

These are expressions that can only apply to one who owes his or her existence to the almighty GOD......

Brother, you still are not getting what am saying. Am not saying He, Jesus is NOT called the firstborn. This firstborn is to his flesh nature NOT to his deity. The expression "firstborn of all creation", what does it mean? and what creation is it talking about? Is it creation or creatURES, we may have problem from translation as some render "creatION" while some render "creatURES", the expression first begotten? What does this mean? Does it related to Jesus in his human nature or to his deity? These are questions that clears the air on whether Christ was created or he existed eternally.

Goshen360:

Brother, you still are not getting what am saying. Am not saying He, Jesus is NOT called the firstborn. This firstborn is to his flesh nature NOT to his deity. The expression "firstborn of all creation", what does it mean? and what creation is it talking about? Is it creation or creatURES, we may have problem from translation as some render "creatION" while some render "creatURES", the expression first begotten? What does this mean? Does it related to Jesus in his human nature or to his deity? These are questions that clears the air on whether Christ was created or he existed eternally.

You are saying exactly what the Antichrist will say, that Jesus Christ the Son of GOD did not come fully in the flesh, he only met us half-way.

In other words , your Jesus was GOD who just put on some flesh and played pretend as MAN, he was not 100% MAN.

Blasphemy !!!

ijawkid:

Goshen I just have one sincere question to ask you.....be very sincere with your answer....

Which GOD do you worship??

Or who is your GOD??

Herein is my answer..........and we may begin to have translation problem from this verse as rendered by some translation......I know you will quickly run to the translation website.......

New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. - John 1:18

I believe my worship to God is by God................

frosbel:

You are saying exactly what the Antichrist will say, that Jesus Christ the Son of GOD did not come fully in the flesh, he only met us half-way.

In other words , your Jesus was GOD who just put on some flesh and played pretend as MAN, he was not 100% MAN.

Blasphemy !!!

Look at Frosbel twisting my words.......the very offense you committed and now saying am the one committing such offense. Na wah for you Frosbel. Mr Anony opened a thread for you to tell us who Jesus is, you refused and here you are with a thread "clearing the air on Jesus".........

Goshen360:

Look at Frosbel twisting my words.......the very offense you committed and now saying am the one committing such offense. Na wah for you Frosbel. Mr Anony opened a thread for you to tell us who Jesus is, you refused and here you are with a thread "clearing the air on Jesus".........

Your JESUS was not a FULL MAN, he was a 1/2 MAN and 1/2 GOD.

The JESUS of the BIBLE was 100% MAN and called the Son of GOD through his inherited divinity through the Spirit of GOD.

If Jesus was GOD , then he was just pretending and we can never ever achieve the same victories he achieved.

Goshen360:

Brother, you still are not getting what am saying. Am not saying He, Jesus is NOT called the firstborn. This firstborn is to his flesh nature NOT to his deity. The expression "firstborn of all creation", what does it mean? and what creation is it talking about? Is it creation or creatURES, we may have problem from translation as some render "creatION" while some render "creatURES", the expression first begotten? What does this mean? Does it related to Jesus in his human nature or to his deity? These are questions that clears the air on whether Christ was created or he existed eternally.

Jesus being Gods 1st born applies to his heavenly life....

Hebrews 1:6 confirms that.........when God was about sending his FIRSR born...

New International Version (©1984)
And again, when God brings his firstborn into
the world, he says, "Let all God's angels
worship him."
.......
GNT...
Hebrews 1:6
6 But when God was about to send his first-born
Son into the world, he said, "All of God's angels
must worship him."

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
When God was about to send his firstborn Son
into the world, he said, "All of God's angels
must worship him."
......

Weymouth New Testament
But speaking of the time when He once more
brings His Firstborn into the world, He says,
"And let all God's angels worship Him."
....

International Standard Version (©2008)
And again, when he brings his firstborn into
the world, he says, "Let all God's angels
worship him."



.........

As regards Jesus' earthly human life he was mary's FIRST born.....

How can Jesus be Gods 1st born only according to the flesh...??

Except Jesus never pre-existed...

Read luke 2:7...

Let's read luke 2:7......
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And she gave birth to her """firstborn"" son; and
she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a
manger, because there was no room for them
in the inn.
.........
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And she brought forth her"" firstborn"" son, and
wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him
in a manger; because there was no room for
them in the inn.

.
According to the flesh Jesus was marys FIRSR born.......

As regards Jesus' heavenly life he was and still is Gods first born......

And please explain what Jesus being marys FIRST BORN means....

There again we have the expression FIRST BORN been used and related to a living being........

Goshen360:

Herein is my answer..........and we may begin to have translation problem from this verse as rendered by some translation......I know you will quickly run to the translation website.......

New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. - John 1:18

I believe my worship to God is by God................

I don't get you.......

Which GOD do you worship??

ijawkid:

I don't get you.......

Which GOD do you worship??

Na wha for you o this man.......Which God or GOD do I worship

My answer,

Goshen360:

Herein is my answer..........and we may begin to have translation problem from this verse as rendered by some translation......I know you will quickly run to the translation website.......

New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. - John 1:18

[size=20pt]I believe my worship to God is by God[/size]................

Goshen360:

Na wha for you o this man.......Which God or GOD do I worship

My answer,

I never still get you clearly o...

The GOD get name??....

Waooh, am liking it in here, some tough questions that desarves tough answers hahahaha...

frosbel:

Your JESUS was not a FULL MAN, he was a 1/2 MAN and 1/2 GOD.

The JESUS of the BIBLE was 100% MAN and called the Son of GOD through his inherited divinity through the Spirit of GOD.

If Jesus was GOD , then he was just pretending and we can never ever achieve the same victories he achieved.

My broda trinitarians go make you use language wen u no wish to no be small. @ the bold: You no talk lie shall !

Goshen360:

Na wha for you o this man.......Which God or GOD do I worship

My answer,

C'est ne pas une réponse directe ! ALORS!!

Goshen360:

Okay, we wan to start translation wahala now abi........I don't want to enagage in translation issues BUT there is a study I did that gave me the conclusion that Jesus wasn't firstBORN of creatURES BUT of creatIONS.......I know where your own sect belongs on this matter as it is what your sect teach. We can go on and on as to translation wahala but there is a translation that shows the meaning of the creatION being talked about. We will get there soon, if we continue.

creation = all creatures put together.

Or

all the thinks that are created = to creation.

So, what the issues all about the creation and creatures issues?

frosbel:

You are saying exactly what the Antichrist will say, that Jesus Christ the Son of GOD did not come fully in the flesh, he only met us half-way.

In other words , your Jesus was GOD who just put on some flesh and played pretend as MAN, he was not 100% MAN.

Blasphemy !!!

if Jesus was not man how then do we follow his foot step and example bearing in mind that we are just human and not half God?

He Jesus set example for us to follow his foot step very closely, this will be imposible and irrational and plain deceit if we are ask to follow the foot step of a god.