PSSWORD i think you should listen to 'Raphoad' advice, you guys should behave like a professional you claim to be, if you look at midas argument, there are too much insult to the other party which suppose not to be so.

Mind you guys, there hundreds if not thousand reading this thread alone. i check for an update on this particular thread every one hour instead of me to face the plenty work on my table.


Regards

A big thank you to @Ivvie, @Midas02 and everyuone that has contributed to the discussion.

In fact I just discovered I have been away for two very important and explosive days on Niraland. I am a Civil engineer and a car frik that want some practical advice. I am very happy that I got more than the advise I wanted.

Happy to say that I got the 'end of discussion' v6 at 69k miles and it runs like mad and consumes fuel like mad. I understand the fuel consumpsion will reduse if the removed catalyst is replaced but I must tell you it is too sensitive compared to my ford contour I placed on Nairaland for sale www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-105186.o.html   .

@midas,Ivvie
please i will appreciate if can get in touch with me for a discussion outside this topic on talk2dpresident@yahoo.com or 08023456002. My name is Lateef.

Thanks a lot

Why are some people calling Siena? must he contribute on this? he's always here in nairaland and if he wants to contribute then let that be his own idea and not a forced idea. Habaaa!!

@topic
I don't know a thing about engines but those guys went a step in making it worse

@bjcisse  and Raphoad,

I planned to ignore the thread but you two have succeeded in bringing me back. I think it is abundantly clear that you had nothing to say or contribute but just felt like writing. That Ok, it's a free world and the net is full of all sorts. A typically ignorant response, no understanding of the subject matter just being impressed by BS spouted out with big big grammer. Go back and read my post and point out to me what is wrong with? Some of Ivvie was writing was scientifically incorrect and I have pointed this out to him. If there is anything that I have written that is factually incorrect pls highlight it, instead this vacuous prattle excuse of a post!!

@Ivvie

1) The equation is still meaningless even with 1-2 under the summation sign. 1 to 2 of what?

2) Midas difinition is correct and is the standard definition of the 2nd law of thermo. Even if it comes from wiki. As you may be well aware it is a universal law, not only used in Heat transfer calculations, but also in industrial chemistry, biology, etc, The form described by Midas is the universal description.

3)

ηT = (1 – (TL/TH) * 100
as TL = 0.  It is impossible to reach 100% efficiency because heat rejected must be 0.  You will need a PMM2 to convert 100% of heat to work.

As TL tends towards 0: TL->0, we should have:

( 1 - (0/TH))* 100,  right. Now whatever yu divide zero by is zero or am I wrong? As in zero oranges dived by 50 oranges is no oranges, abi? so what does that leave us:

( 1 - 0)* 100 = 1*100 = 100%

You wrote:

This is the restriction placed on the second law of thermodynamics.  As it devotes itself to a fixed system, it develops inability to do other work.  TH and TL is temp high and temp low.  TL is usually between 270K to 320K for common cycle.

As you can see the from the equation above as TL tends towards zero 100% is possible. Also, the statement in quote has no substantive application to the equation you have presented. 270K and 320K is going away from zero. The equation does not represent restriction. Maybe if you take the case that TH tends towards zero in which case you will have

(1 - TL/0)* 100. TL/0 is undefined as it tends towards infinity. This is where you can apply L'hoptal's rule and set your constraints. Even so, you'll probably end up with negative percentage, which could be impossible - a contraint depending on the engineering parameters of your system.

@dpresident

Good luck with car, which was the original reason you posted. I hope it serves you well and a for a long time too.

Regards

PSSWORD,

Why are you taking things here personal? this place is suppose to be a forum where group of people comes together to share ideas. If you have decided not to come back to this thread again, then pls take a walk and don't start what you can finish.

Its as simple as ABC, give your opinion and let other give theirs. if you consider other people opinion wrong , then correct them and don't start to insult people here.

we are all gaining from this thread. remember you are not the only mechanical engineer reading this thread. there are all kinds of professional from different area of specialization too. once a again be responsible and post here as a professional you claim to be.

nobody on this thread has said midas is wrong but you or more ppl had said ivriv is wrong. but let do it maturely,

i dont no this but i believe everything ivrive has said will not be wrong, as more ppl has testify to this.

i'll wait here for you if you agree, i see u as a responsible guy and trust you will change.


Regards

dpresident,
Stop going around/listening to those old-school roadside mechanic or you Honda will end up in a worse shape than the Contour.

Oyinbo, no put catalytic converter to make car drink fuel, but to reduce emission.

As a rule before you bought the car, V6 is only good for highway/speed burns fuel in "go-slow".
If cost of fuel is a concern to your finance, you shouldn't be using a 3.0 V6.
If you smell petrol from your tail piep, your O2 sensor might be the culprit(burning rich)

Let this be my final entry into this topic. To those who have been kind enough to try and chip in or mediate - It is our culture in Naija, to resolve and settle our differences without using truth-telling and facts as a guiding yardstick and I am just one who simply rebels against it!. I refuse to trade truth for peace!. I call a spade a spade and it will be unfortunate if someone chooses to see it as an insult or arrogance.
Ovvie’s statements are not only untrue and misleading, but they also reveal a confused and desperate desire to justify his position by pasting unrelated, meaningless and distorted jargon!. One cannot be asked about Jesus Christ in a Bible knowledge examination and give them an answer talking about Moses!. Both topics may be in the Bible but they are largely different events and the stories cannot be confused with each other.
Ovvie keeps making reference to High compression, Low compression, High efficiency in engines and a host of thermo-related terms without any meaningful postulations as to the inter-relationship and their relevance to the subject matter – which is Engine wear in 6Cyl Vs 4Cyl.

For the benefit of those who may be interested in knowing, I will take the time to shed light on those technical terms without making it overtly complicated:
All cars use four-stroke engines. One of the strokes is the compression stroke, where the engine compresses a cylinder-full of air and gasoline into a much smaller volume before igniting it with a spark plug. The amount of compression is called the compression ratio of the engine. A typical engine might have a compression ratio of 8-to-1. The higher the compression ratio, the higher the efficiency and power output of an engine (within a given limit). Thus, most modern engines, because of the higher demand for gas economy and power, have compression ratios that are over 9-to-1 and some go as high as 10.5-to-1. Because of the optimization of engine design, today’s engines tend to operate at higher temperatures (even though the total effect of this higher temperature is neutralized by the use of more efficient cooling systems and improved application of heat-treated and conductive alloys in these engines). The higher operating temperatures of these newer engines mean that low quality oil will most often break down quickly thereby loosing its essential viscosity and ability to effectively prevent friction by lubrication. Like I said earlier, the only thing that causes wear in an engine is friction (metal to metal contact) and this is why effective lubrication is a must!. This is why car manufacturers specify a certain grade of engine oil and some would even go as far as to encourage the use of Synthetic oil for their vehicles. Now this is as far as the issue of high compression and heat go in the subject matter of wear in an Engine.
The truth remains that whether you drive a 4Cyl or a 6Cyl, if you are driving a car manufactured with the technologies from the mid-90’s onward, you are most likely driving a car with higher compression ratio and efficiency and it doesn’t make a difference either way (4cyl or 6Cyl). Here is an extract from Honda’s corporate office on their Honda Accord engines (2003 “End of Discussion”):

http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=952

Now as you can see from that page, not only did they show the technical details and differences of both the 4cyl and the 6Cyl, they also went on to show the improvements that they made over the preceding engines (1998-2002 “Baby boy”). The compression ratios stated there for both engine types show that they both have comparably high ratios – but by today’s standards this are considered normal!. Truly high compression engines as found in super high performance cars such as Honda S2000, Corvette Z06, Ferraris and Porsches often operate with compression ratios that are much higher and that is why such cars cannot be operated with 87 Octane gasoline (but that is another subject matter!).
The bottom line is that Ovvie’s insistence and continuous mention of this terms (to say little about his distorted and meaningless mathematical entries)  go to show me that not only does he not know what he is talking about because he uses them out of context, abusing them with reckless abandon and without any meaningful purpose, but he also doesn’t know how they tie into the subject matter. If you are really a final year student of mechanics then you must know that there are people that have been there before you and who have the added benefit of real world, hands-on experience! – something that a textbook cannot give you!. Ultimately, this discussion is not about winning or loosing an argument, it is about setting the records straight without any misrepresentation. I believe I have made my position and point adequately clear and I will henceforth refrain from further entries into this thread. Thank you.

PS: Ovvie, you still haven’t shown us the source or basis for your postulation about Hondas having a 130,000 mile design limit. We still look forward to seeing a credible shred of evidence.

O boyy!!!!!!!, I cant believe the amount of technicalities that rolled out in this simple argument.I was educated though.

Hello all,

I have a 1997 honda accord (baby boy). V6 engine. Works fine except that it jerks badly when its cold. But normalises as soon as I drive a distance and the engine warms up.

I've changed the plugs severally. This doesnt improve at all when a new set of plugs are installed.

Could it be a fuel filter issue? Where's the filter located. We can't find this.

Change your sparkplug wires. You probably have some white deposits on the wires causing a misfire. Check your ignition rotors & distribution cap too.

Try checking what you can according to this link
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/engine/ques090_3.html

I'll hate to think of the compression loss as cause, but the type of engine oil used in naija raises ?s

Gamer,

Your problem is easy to narrow down. The kind of issue and symptoms you just described points to only one culprit - Ignition system (this includes spark plug wires and distributor assembly)!.
You probably need Spark Plug Wires (spark plug wires are supposed to be changed during a full tune-up). Spark plug wires don't function right once they get old because the rubber covering deteriorates, heat from the engines causes wires to dry up, crack and loose pliability. Eventually, you start loosing vital electric currents to outside elements and your engine's spark timing cycle is thrown off because the electric charge doesn't get to the right cylinder/spark plug when it is needed. This is why your car jerks!. Having said that, there could be another culprit - Distributor!. Honda distributors (especially 1990 -1997 models) are notoriously sensitive and when you start having temperature related malfunction (engine getting warm or cold) in distributors then it is the beginning of a long trip to absolute failure (it takes a while but it will eventually happen). The best thing is to replace your spark plug wires (hope you can find original/quality parts) and if it does not stop then you can start looking to replace your distributor soon.

Unfortunately, Honda distributors are sealed and you cannot replace the distributor cap and rotor inside because they don't come that way. you have to buy the entire distributor. I hope this helps.

Midas02 --

I call a spade a spade and it will be unfortunate if someone chooses to see it as an insult or arrogance.

No one is saying you should not point it out when you are convinced another person is wrong. We only ask that you keep your manners as well. You can always disagree with other peoples opinion without getting too personal. I am sure that you do not present your views this manner at work even when you perhap run into an employee that comes accross to be ignorant. You ought to simply express your point and let the management team decide. Same approach could be applied here.

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@PAPABOMBOY,

I am well. I have been on vacation for the past few days and wasn't looking forward to seeing a computer, Interesting replies though

Oga proo u welcome o, but abeg make this tory get end of discussion.

Forget the engines and just admire

I no know say Nigerians know book like dis ooooooo. All of una too dey talk sef. The person wey start the thread don already buy the car, which one una still dey talk again

Oya Oya Oya,

[size=18pt]End of[/size] this [size=18pt]Discussion!!![/size]

Wetin we dey do here if we no fit discuss?

@ Pssword:

Chief, you might want to tell us the essence of your posts o, Professor, (of  Engineering) if you cannot disseminate knowledge of which you claim mastery, to people you claim are "ignorant",  Must all of us be  Engineers before we grasp little detail in a simple question (asked by dpresident to which your response was based, chief? Therefore, you might want to explain who then is making "vacuous Prattle" if you can not even be a bit sensible.

That takes me to your earlier post as you suggested in your post viz:

"First of all, this is not an engineering discussion because Ivvie is writing NONSENSE He must be a sophomore or junior engineering student who hasn't quite understood the subject matter or some copy and paste jocky with little or no vague idea about engineering. I mean copying poorly formed partial differential equations from God knows where.  Equivocating, maybe prevaricate may be a closer word, on the 2nd Law of thermo. He had no understanding of the role of entropy in a sytem, heat or otherwise.  For me this was the biggest herring. When people use big big grammer and cryptic jargon when asked really simple question, you can quickly tell that there are trying to hide their ignorance.  Thank God I have an engineering background or I would have been bamboozled by charlatans like this Ivvie guy. "

You started by saying Ivvie wrote "NONSENSE",  and I am yet to see any "SENSE" in your response, quoted above. If Ivvie doesn't understand 2nd law of Thermodynamics, what have you done to correct or educate (NOTHING, except all these "big big grammer and cryptic jargon". Mr. Bamboozle and chalatans.

Why is it so freaking easy for you to abuse at the word "go". E re n le Baba Purofeso. You better have a bit of "reasonability" in your loins and don't be put off by simple suggestion I made earlier (You can refer to it, if you are "ignorant".

really feeling
u guys here!!

Me go school, for where? When nairaland get ogbologbo like this.

See as grama full groud yakata.

Abeg, make I copy am quick quick so I go fit tell Molue driver say the thing wey make me charge am 500 naira to patch im tire nah because the tire get ADIYE(fowul)batic compression from overload.

Maintenance of v6 cars is silly and high and also stupid

As a professional of more than 10 years experience working in Europe now,I will say that Ivvie is writing like some one who has read a lot but does not have a lot of practical experieince.
Midas is however breaking down his argument in a way that any well educated person can understand and that usually comes from practical experience.

I only feel sorry for people in Naija because this argument would be understood by most half educated people in the western world but to a lot of Naija graduates even the, science ones it may be hard to follow .

If you work in a place where almost every one has internet access at home and the clients come in to see you at work after going online and doing their own research ,it is hard to bamboozle any one here. You have to know your stuff.
BUt I must thank you both for debate, higher standard than I have seen on Nairaland of late

Don't know why I feel the need to add my 5 kobo's worth,
but Ivvie youngman, the best thing when confronted with superior numbers/knowledge is to keep quiet,

although since it's the internet your words live on forever, in which case, just pretend your 12 year old brother was using your account.

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Amazing trend of discussion.

look at the question

''Someone gave me a V6 cheaper than a similar 4 cylinder end of discussion <<Accord?>> and I became skeptical about the performance of the V6.

Please does anyone knows if the V6 is less superior than the I4 engine?''

the natural and educated response for any1 tryn to help this already confused guy would a yes or no answer. in its simplest form.

u guys not only did not really answer that, u went ahead and started fighting.

to the nairalander that asked the question, the v6 is superior to the I4 engine?''

how difficult was that?

the only reason you might have gotten a cheaper deal than you expected is if the V6 already has problems, or because the knowledge skill of most of our

mechanics is quite poor and so V6 models are not always prefered in NIGERIA

my advise to u is stick to a 4 cos since u really dont know much about cars.

sorry about these braniacs when dey make us all para.

Honda end of discussion v6 can be compared to rocket science, i will give a brief description:[img]http://my.execpc.com/~culp/rockets/equation.gif[/img]

* Time (T): the time this row represents. The first row starts at zero and for each row thereafter, T = T from previous row + dt.
* Mass (M): the mass of the rocket at this time. M = M from previous row - dM, where dM is the "mass decrement", or the mass of fuel you think will be burned in dt.
* Drag Force (Fd): Fd = 0.5*rho*Cd*A*V^2 where V is the velocity calculated in the previous row. Cd=drag coefficient, A=area of the rocket, rho=air density (1.2 kg/m^3 at sea level). Note: there's a little trick to drag force, see below.
* Thrust (Ft): Rocket's thrust. For example, you can set this to the average thrust for rows from time=0 up to the row that is the burnout time, zero thereafter.
* Net Force (F): F = Ft-Fd-M*g is the sum of thrust, drag, and weight.
* Acceleration (Acc): Acc = F/M, where force and mass values are the ones from this row (the current time period).
* Velocity (V): V = V from previous row + Acc*dt where Acc is the acceleration from this row (the current time period).
* Altitude (Y): Y = Y from previous row + V*dt where V is the velocity from this row (the current time period).

I hope this info will help a lot, LOL

Krazy boi lol

V6s are Money BURNING machines. Especially the 2003/2005 Honda accord V6 Models. Maintenance is very expensive and its got a very fragile transmission system (gear). And the rate of fuel consumption is high.