never_say_never:

Oh i see, little wonder your comments are like that. However, you lose nothing if you believe in God, you might lose if, in the end you find out he exists.

I gain or lose nothing.. let's see, you believe in the Christian god, you're pissing off other gods.. Let's say Allah's the real god.. lol. we'll both be in muslim hell.
Your chances are as good as mine...

^^^ only fools say to themselves there is no God.

chuks315: ^^^ only fools say to themselves there is no God.

Better a fool than a zombie.. zombie yahweh slave..

musKeeto:
Better a fool than a zombie.. zombie yahweh slave..

thank God for grace, you can still be saved. There is still hope for the living, even if you repent last minute. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" Romans 10:9. Oh how easy it is to get salvation!

musKeeto:
I gain or lose nothing.. let's see, you believe in the Christian god, you're pissing off other gods.. Let's say Allah's the real god.. lol. we'll both be in muslim hell.
Your chances are as good as mine...

Eunny, but what if they're same, ever thought of that? Football's all about winning, so if you play either like Chelsea or Barcelona to win the cup...the end justifies the means.

never_say_never:

Eunny, but what if they're same, ever thought of that? Football's all about winning, so if you play either like Chelsea or Barcelona to win the cup...the end justifies the means.

When Barca win the champions league, it doesn't go on Ashley Cole's cv... Or Kobe Bryant's cv...

chuks315: thank God for grace, you can still be saved. There is still hope for the living, even if you repent last minute. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" Romans 10:9. Oh how easy it is to get salvation!

That easy... No wonder christianity has so many hypocrites...
Just believe even if na last minute..

Sorry, thou shalt be saved from what exactly? Lmao...

never_say_never:

Eunny, but what if they're same, ever thought of that? Football's all about winning, so if you play either like Chelsea or Barcelona to win the cup...the end justifies the means.

I'm going to tell you how it looks to the average atheist (can't speak for all of us), so nothing personal. Though you shouldn't care much for our opinions as we're 'fools' in xtianspeak anyhow. Pascal's wager is generally considered extremely cowardly and self-serving: you believe in god because you're scared or concerned primarily with your self-preservation, not because you're a good person or god is a good deity. You've been coerced/blackmailed into believing.

The other arguments in this thread, you guys genuinely think the average atheist has not seen them tirelessly before? The ones floating in this thread are of the lowest quality....

And no, most of you haven't heard or given anti-theist arguments any decent thought. Mostly just sheeple in here from what I can tell. There are religious that have given their faith proper consideration though, I doubt most of those would be blindly intolerant.

musKeeto:
When Barca win the champions league, it doesn't go on Ashley Cole's cv... Or Kobe Bryant's cv...

Yea sure, but Ashley cole knows he stands no chance of winning it with Arsenal, that's why he joined Chelsea...you see?

wiegraf:

I'm going to tell you how it looks to the average atheist (can't speak for all of us), so nothing personal. Though you shouldn't care much for our opinions as we're 'fools' in xtianspeak anyhow. Pascal's wager is generally considered extremely cowardly and self-serving: you believe in god because you're scared or concerned primarily with your self-preservation, not because you're a good person or god is a good deity. You've been coerced/blackmailed into believing.

The other arguments in this thread, you guys genuinely think the average atheist has not seen them tirelessly before? The ones floating in this thread are of the lowest quality....

And no, most of you haven't heard or given anti-theist arguments any decent thought. Mostly just sheeple in here from what I can tell. There are religious that have given their faith proper consideration though, I doubt most of those would be blindly intolerant.

Everyone is entitled to his beliefs and opinions, so calling atheists fools won't change them, actions & probably miracles will. If christians were coerced into believing, science coerced atheists too. Some christians believe in science too, so how about a benefit of the doubt from atheists too?

never_say_never:

Everyone is entitled to his beliefs and opinions, so calling atheists fools won't change them, actions & probably miracles will. If christians were coerced into believing, science coerced atheists too. Some christians believe in science too, so how about a benefit of the doubt from atheists too?

You may have problems understanding the meaning of the word coerce. No one's threatening or bribing/manipulating us atheists to do anything. And xtians are given the benefit of the doubt, but have no evidence. If xtianity/whatever was not tagged 'religion' the respect would be a lot lower

If you think actions change people you think intolerance, baseless gay bashing and calling people who don't subscribe to your beliefs fools are the most productive route?

Why the need to change/convert one anyways. I, and most of us atheists it seems, could care less what religion you follow. It's the bigotry, intolerance, etc that shift us into action.

You think gay bashing is right? Give me cogent non-religious reasons why so? Pls, no opinions as well

never_say_never:

Everyone is entitled to his beliefs and opinions, so calling atheists fools won't change them, actions & probably miracles will. If christians were coerced into believing, science coerced atheists too. Some christians believe in science too, so how about a benefit of the doubt from atheists too?

Science coerced atheists? Lol....

Science works for everyone, doesn't matter your religion or beliefs.. It works for everyone....

Faith, on the other hand, is down to personal interpretation. Faith takes the form of the believer's thoughts.. ever heard 'whatever works for you'...

never_say_never:

Yea sure, but Ashley cole knows he stands no chance of winning it with Arsenal, that's why he joined Chelsea...you see?

Pretty lame argument.. Every team in the competition stands a chance of winning the Champions league. Players sometimes pick teams based on better odds. Of course, no one expected Porto to win it, or Liverpool. You see where your argument fails hopelessly?

And yeah, check up on Pascal's Wager...

musKeeto:
We should be blaming your confused GOd for not creating people 'right' in the first place.. kids with two heads, six fingers, half balls, hermaphrodites et al

I have 6 fingers. Does dt make me a freak?

Farrahkhan:
I have 6 fingers. Does dt make me a freak?

Did I call you a 'freak'? Where's this question coming from?

musKeeto:
That easy... No wonder christianity has so many hypocrites...
Just believe even if na last minute..

Sorry, thou shalt be saved from what exactly? Lmao...

My point is God is merciful if you confess your sins He is ready to forgive. Even some christians are "hypocrites", are going to let yourself be deceived by a few people?

NnamdiN: Please pardon my ignorance but how does this thing work? Do they rewire the person internally? Does the brain connect perfectly with all parts of the new body(assuming a real dude is sucking on "her" titties, would "she" feel the natural sensation, that "real" fly a s s shawties feel) lastly, whose organs do they use for the exchange ?


Forgot to add, what gives them off ? If I bumped into one of these abnormal things, how would I tell it's chinko and not the original.

Lol....I'm Asking The Same Question

NnamdiN: Please pardon my ignorance but how does this thing work? Do they rewire the person internally? Does the brain connect perfectly with all parts of the new body(assuming a real dude is sucking on "her" titties, would "she" feel the natural sensation, that "real" fly a s s shawties feel) lastly, whose organs do they use for the exchange ?


Forgot to add, what gives them off ? If I bumped into one of these abnormal things, how would I tell it's chinko and not the original.

Lol....I'm Asking The Same Question

NnamdiN: Please pardon my ignorance but how does this thing work? Do they rewire the person internally? Does the brain connect perfectly with all parts of the new body(assuming a real dude is sucking on "her" titties, would "she" feel the natural sensation, that "real" fly a s s shawties feel) lastly, whose organs do they use for the exchange ?


Forgot to add, what gives them off ? If I bumped into one of these abnormal things, how would I tell it's chinko and not the original.

Lol....I'm Asking The Same Question

wiegraf:

You may have problems understanding the meaning of the word coerce. No one's threatening or bribing/manipulating us atheists to do anything. And xtians are given the benefit of the doubt, but have no evidence. If xtianity/whatever was not tagged 'religion' the respect would be a lot lower

If you think actions change people you think intolerance, baseless gay bashing and calling people who don't subscribe to your beliefs fools are the most productive route?

Why the need to change/convert one anyways. I, and most of us atheists it seems, could care less what religion you follow. It's the bigotry, intolerance, etc that shift us into action.

You think gay bashing is right? Give me cogent non-religious reasons why so? Pls, no opinions as well

I must say it's rather harsh that you consider religious people as being coerced into it. I believe there are some things we were taught (not forced) to believe...just as we were taught that 2+2=4 in mathematics, if you never believed that, then you probably wouldn't know anything about maths. What you refer to as bigotry/intolerance comes as a result of the fact that it's suprising that in this part of the world (where we were all brought up to believe in a supreme being, be it under christianity, islam or paganism), there are people who believe in nothing supernatural at all.
As regards to gay bashing(without religious quotes), apart from the fact Nigeria is very religious, isn't it obvious? 2 men can't reproduce cos it takes a man and woman to do so, or am i wrong?

musKeeto:
Science coerced atheists? Lol....

Science works for everyone, doesn't matter your religion or beliefs.. It works for everyone....

Faith, on the other hand, is down to personal interpretation. Faith takes the form of the believer's thoughts.. ever heard 'whatever works for you'...

Science works, no doubt, but hasn't there been some things that science itself couldn't explain, cases where scientists were left in awe?
Faith on the other hand can be defined as evidence of things not seen...it works with reality though, so it's not necessarily 'whatever works for you'.

musKeeto:
Pretty lame argument.. Every team in the competition stands a chance of winning the Champions league. Players sometimes pick teams based on better odds. Of course, no one expected Porto to win it, or Liverpool. You see where your argument fails hopelessly?

And yeah, check up on Pascal's Wager...

Are you for real? Every team? Football's a game, but it also works with reality...a team might win against all odds but they must have some quality too, like 'porto' & 'liverpool' who won it with quality players like 'deco' & 'alonso'. If every team has a chance, can you put your money on 'braga' winning it?

The story long. I hope I can keep it short. I also really shouldn't be spending time here. Anyways

never_say_never:
just as we were taught that 2+2=4 in mathematics, if you never believed that, then you probably wouldn't know anything about maths.

First off, you need to differentiate between learning social norms and most education involving topics like mathematics (particularly, arguably the most objective persuit there is), sciences, etc. Even their objectives are different. One is involved with technical knowledge, the other with norms used to deal with society like moral codes.

Religion could try to pass itself off as technical knowledge, which is true in a sense. Problem occurs when religious dogma is taught as fact, it most certainly is not (evidence, where? Not even logical evidence to back it up). Not only that but people being taught these 'facts' are not allowed or encouraged to question, they must agree with its dogma. Other brainwashing techniques also become involved, usually even the brainwasher is unaware of what they are doing, they were programmed earlier to perpetuate said religions doctrines. If you need to clear that up, wiki to start

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination

Using the word 'believe', I just don't know what better word to use so I'll stick with it, sort of. But you don't believe 2 + 2 = 4, it is objectively so, with or without the presence of conscience to translate it (thereby adding our subjectivity to it). Philosopher input is welcome (step in quantum lovers, etc).

never_say_never:
I must say it's rather harsh that you consider religious people as being coerced into it. I believe there are some things we were taught (not forced) to believe... What you refer to as bigotry/intolerance comes as a result of the fact that it's suprising that in this part of the world (where we were all brought up to believe in a supreme being, be it under christianity, islam or paganism), there are people who believe in nothing supernatural at all.

Like I say, you've been conditioned to not question doctrine, at least I hope so as this is rather bad reasoning. To elaborate, you say the blue then say the red in the same paragraph? You're more or else saying that people just accept the religion they are born into, that does not translate to putting any thought into it. You, as an african with no ties to manchester, have a family and all of them are man u fans? Then pressure from your family was involved. Either some sort of peer pressure or downright manipulation (even if done just to please your kind parents, you probably haven't given it enough thought). Btw, being a bigot just because someone does not share your opinions is not justifiable.

Look at these
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

What I want you to take from there is number of people who were raised in homes where religion was not an issue, in essence a lot less pressure from the family to follow some religion or the other. From those homes, roughly 50% of them do go on to be affiliated with a religion. That is how it should be without coercion, you make up your mind for yourself as to what stance suits you best then you follow it, no pressure involved. With that note that quite a few still became religious despite less pressure, those one can safely say came to their decisions after having given it a lot more thought than the indoctrinated.

And there are all sorts of atheists, or anti-theists (unaffiliated, humanists, even buddhists, etc, agnostiscs, pantheists etc), just as there are all sorts of theists (xtian, muslim etc). So the 50 - 50 is fairly accurate.

never_say_never:
As regards to gay bashing(without religious quotes), apart from the fact Nigeria is very religious, isn't it obvious? 2 men can't reproduce cos it takes a man and woman to do so, or am i wrong?

So you think it's by force for one to have children? You're still forcing your opinions on others.


I've already wasted too much time. Hope you guys question your beliefs. Not asking anyone to throw away god, just don't blindly follow

never_say_never:

Are you for real? Every team? Football's a game, but it also works with reality...a team might win against all odds but they must have some quality too, like 'porto' & 'liverpool' who won it with quality players like 'deco' & 'alonso'. If every team has a chance, can you put your money on 'braga' winning it?

Betting has to do with odds.. Every team has got 'odds'.. some just have better odds.. That's my point here.
Saying Christianity's the ONLY way isn't the same as saying it has better odds. It's either TRUE which makes all other RELIGIONS FALSE or it's FALSE which of course brings in 'odds'.

chuks315: My point is God is merciful if you confess your sins He is ready to forgive. Even some christians are "hypocrites", are going to let yourself be deceived by a few people?

I'm not deceived by a few people. I WON'T be deceived by a book clearly written by men smoking weed e.g Moses and the Burning bush..

never_say_never:

Science works, no doubt, but hasn't there been some things that science itself couldn't explain, cases where scientists were left in awe?
Faith on the other hand can be defined as evidence of things not seen...it works with reality though, so it's not necessarily 'whatever works for you'.

Consider that what was considered 'awesome' yesterday is considered 'mundane' today. That's the story of life. And Christianity, based on faith, also experiences this. Have you ever heard of 'revivals'? Loll. We all seek for new experiences. Some people should take it a step further.

@Muskeeto it is obvious you love to argue about religion, yet know nothing about it, you love to intellectual discussions about God like lets bring the facts, God is this or that, yet you know nothing about Him. You may have read a lot of books about God, but let me tell you knowledge about God is also gotten from revelation, personal relationship with Him. Forget what science has taught you for a second and just believe, act in faith, ask God to reveal Himself to you. God said "for one who must come to me must believe that I am", "the same God is God over the Jews and the Gentiles and is faithful and just to answer all the call to Him" bible verses. Bro just try it, you got nothing to lose.

chuks315:
@Muskeeto it is obvious you love to argue about religion, yet know nothing about it,

Then who knows? For you to claim I don't know, you'd have to tell me what you know. Maybe my knowledge or lack of it is an illusion. And yes, I love to argue.

chuks315:
you love to intellectual discussions about God like lets bring the facts, God is this or that, yet you know nothing about Him.

The little I do know about him is through religion. And there are so many religions with conflicting views about this 'HIM'..

chuks315:
You may have read a lot of books about God, but let me tell you knowledge about God is also gotten from revelation, personal relationship with Him.

Yes, so many have claimed to have had a revelation, personal relationship. But their 'GOD' usually differ. Moses GOD, Mohammed's GOD, Chukwu, amongst others..
So yeah, God is as personal as your brain.

chuks315:
Forget what science has taught you for a second and just believe, act in faith, ask God to reveal Himself to you. God said "for one who must come to me must believe that I am", "the same God is God over the Jews and the Gentiles and is faithful and just to answer all the call to Him" bible verses.

And yet I ask again, how does this 'faith' thing work.. is it abandonment of 'logic and reason'.. or just a means to fill all gaps in my knowledge?

chuks315: Bro just try it, you got nothing to lose.

Not willing to. Heard a lot of people have gone crazy doing that. The dangerous ones got locked up in prisons. The others are preachers, conmen, and pastorpreneurs..

Not willing to yet, but one day you will believe it or not.

chuks315: Not willing to yet, but one day you will believe it or not.

Thanks, I'll be praying for you...

musKeeto:
Thanks, I'll be praying for you...

Hilarious! Thank God you pray! Its a step forward.

chuks315: Hilarious! Thank God you pray! Its a step forward.

wiegraf: The story long. I hope I can keep it short. I also really shouldn't be spending time here. Anyways



First off, you need to differentiate between learning social norms and most education involving topics like mathematics (particularly, arguably the most objective persuit there is), sciences, etc. Even their objectives are different. One is involved with technical knowledge, the other with norms used to deal with society like moral codes.

Religion could try to pass itself off as technical knowledge, which is true in a sense. Problem occurs when religious dogma is taught as fact, it most certainly is not (evidence, where? Not even logical evidence to back it up). Not only that but people being taught these 'facts' are not allowed or encouraged to question, they must agree with its dogma. Other brainwashing techniques also become involved, usually even the brainwasher is unaware of what they are doing, they were programmed earlier to perpetuate said religions doctrines. If you need to clear that up, wiki to start

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination

Using the word 'believe', I just don't know what better word to use so I'll stick with it, sort of. But you don't believe 2 + 2 = 4, it is objectively so, with or without the presence of conscience to translate it (thereby adding our subjectivity to it). Philosopher input is welcome (step in quantum lovers, etc).



Like I say, you've been conditioned to not question doctrine, at least I hope so as this is rather bad reasoning. To elaborate, you say the blue then say the red in the same paragraph? You're more or else saying that people just accept the religion they are born into, that does not translate to putting any thought into it. You, as an african with no ties to manchester, have a family and all of them are man u fans? Then pressure from your family was involved. Either some sort of peer pressure or downright manipulation (even if done just to please your kind parents, you probably haven't given it enough thought). Btw, being a bigot just because someone does not share your opinions is not justifiable.

Look at these
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

What I want you to take from there is number of people who were raised in homes where religion was not an issue, in essence a lot less pressure from the family to follow some religion or the other. From those homes, roughly 50% of them do go on to be affiliated with a religion. That is how it should be without coercion, you make up your mind for yourself as to what stance suits you best then you follow it, no pressure involved. With that note that quite a few still became religious despite less pressure, those one can safely say came to their decisions after having given it a lot more thought than the indoctrinated.

And there are all sorts of atheists, or anti-theists (unaffiliated, humanists, even buddhists, etc, agnostiscs, pantheists etc), just as there are all sorts of theists (xtian, muslim etc). So the 50 - 50 is fairly accurate.



So you think it's by force for one to have children? You're still forcing your opinions on others.


I've already wasted too much time. Hope you guys question your beliefs. Not asking anyone to throw away god, just don't blindly follow

Too much time wasted as you said, and to think we've totally diverged from the topic. Let's agree to disagree.

never_say_never:

Too much time wasted as you said, and to think we've totally diverged from the topic. Let's agree to disagree.

Yup, I'm cool with that.

Kudos

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