tiarabubu:

That is classical trait that many find unnerving. Death and the dying mean little to you.

Still the question remains;

Show me a religion today aside Islam that prompt people to systematically murder at will not as a result of insurrection, war, rebellion etc but pure murder on an epic scale, then we will have something to talk about. A religion that murders its own kind because of ideological differences.

Show me ONE Islamic country that allows freedoms taken for granted elsewhere. Yea right Muslim are normal folks - of course. I am talking about Islam and the influences to has that causes some to deprive others of life and limbs. If Islam is the right path, you would expect that these countries will be the leading light, an oasis of calm. Doesn't that tell on the ideology.

I can bet my Sunday lunch another a couple of lives will be taken by this time tomorrow. And I will just be arguing "emotionally" about the dead while to you, it'll be ok... just another day defending the faith! By their fruits you shall know them.....


What a path to follow!

Doesn't according to bible the devil poses as an 'angel of light'? And if you take census of the number of people Jehovah struck and killed and those killed by his prophets and followers in the bible,would you stop believing in God? I'm telling you those killing in the name of religion are not Muslims.

^Address the issue at hand, We can talk about Islamic countries later... Stop running away from the topic...

tbaba1234: ^ Again proving my point, it does have religious and political roots, the same with most conflicts in the middle east..... You are talking of modern times ... You conveniently ignored the religious aspect. Joker

Tbaba don't be like that nah?

Are the Shias cowardly murdered in Pakistan having ANYTHING TO DO WITH HISTORY? Is Pakistan in the middle east? Is Afghanistan in the Middle East? Is Nigeria in the Middle East?


Read again so you don't embarrass yourself. This is just this week and past;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20448565
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/05/260017/genocide-of-shia-muslims-in-pakistan/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19280339
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20425510



For example, the murders in Pakistan has been described as approaching a GENOCIDE. Now tell me tbaba, have you EVER condemned this on Nairaland? Murders of fellow Muslims by Muslims? I would love to see a link. Its gut wrenching whats happening.


Now I hope you get my point.

Now where were we.....

^ First, you ignore the religious angle of the northern Ireland conflict. Then i talk middle east and you mention pakistan. Anything to get away.....

Emotional arguments

WHY ARE YOU IGNORING THE TOPIC

tbaba1234: ^Address the issue at hand, We can talk about Islamic countries later... Stop running away from the topic...

Are you getting hot around the collar?

I did mention earlier that the collective action of the Muslim Ummah (actively or passively) says something about the fundamentals of Islam and the irrationality of it. I am separating the issue of faith (and the challenges of drawing conclusions about it) and the mundane and this is dealing with the later. So we are on track.....

^ You have yet to defend your beliefs, I am waiting..

If you want to discuss sectarian issues , I started a thread for it before.. https://www.nairaland.com/931987/sunni-shia-sufi-arguments-destroying

NOW FACE THE TOPIC!!!

tbaba1234: ^ First, you ignore the religious angle of the northern Ireland conflict. Then i talk middle east and you mention pakistan. Anything to get away.....

Emotional arguments

WHY ARE YOU IGNORING THE TOPIC

We are talking of Muslims and you are bringing the middle east. Are Muslims only in the middle east?

Zhul-Fiqar.:


Doesn't according to bible the devil poses as an 'angel of light'? And if you take census of the number of people Jehovah struck and killed and those killed by his prophets and followers in the bible,would you stop believing in God? I'm telling you those killing in the name of religion are not Muslims.

Yes the devil does pose as an angel of light. Fortunately we, Christians have the new covenant as a standard for what Christianity is and stands for and explained quite clearly in the Bible (and mentioned somewhere here) so all those killing verses are not open ended and cannot be cited for backing up anything today. Quite clear.

Are you telling me that the Wahabis (custodian of Mecca and Medina and whom you often accuse of influencing unacceptable things) are not Muslims?!

Do you play dodge ball??

You can't justify your beliefs rationally. You start talking about actions of some muslims, nothing to do with the topic, There will be opportunities to talk about that, no worries.

From the foregoing, it is obvious that you can not defend the core beliefs of your faith. You try to avoid it by going on the offensive, this only happens when one concedes that he has lost an argument.

Thanks for proving once again that the core beliefs of your faith are meaningless.

Speak to you another time.

tbaba1234: ^ You have yet to defend your beliefs, I am waiting..

If you want to discuss sectarian issues , I started a thread for it before.. https://www.nairaland.com/931987/sunni-shia-sufi-arguments-destroying

NOW FACE THE TOPIC!!!

We HAVE been facing the topic! Can't you see? Are you lost?


I did mention earlier that the collective action of the Muslim Ummah (actively or passively) says something about the fundamentals of Islam and the irrationality of it. I am separating the issue of faith (and the challenges of drawing conclusions about it) and the mundane and this is dealing with the later. So we are on track..... wink

tbaba1234: Do you play dodge ball??

You can't justify your beliefs rationally. You start talking about actions of some muslims, nothing to do with the topic, There will be opportunities to talk about that, no worries.

From the foregoing, it is obvious that you can not defend the core beliefs of your faith. You try to avoid it by going on the offensive, this only happens when one concedes that he has lost an argument.

Thanks for proving once again that the core beliefs of your faith are meaningless.

Speak to you another time.

Hey come back here! Don't run! We ARE on topic!

You brought up the "Irrationality" of the Christian doctrine of faith. I highlighted the flawed basis of your assumptions by showing you the capacity of God to fulfil those doctrines. I also showed the irrationality of Islam including the actions of some of its adherents which shows that it cannot be the straight path. Its now getting unbearable for you huh?


Better come down to earth from this your pristine, nirvana-like assumptions you make of Islam and face reality.

If you were in Bichi on Wednesday, or in Pakistan on Monday, or in Iraq last month you be more practical and be more forceful in preaching more tolerance and reaching out to the many that tarnish the image of Islam before the world. Your work is cut out. As long as some Muslims continue to use religion as a cover, and the vast majority keep silent, all your efforts at "Dawah" will be largely useless and a waste of time.






I did mention earlier that the collective action of the Muslim Ummah (actively or passively) says something about the fundamentals of Islam and the irrationality of it. I am separating the issue of faith (and the challenges of drawing conclusions about it) and the mundane and this is dealing with the later. So we are on track..... wink

^ NO the topic was about the christian faith, you side-steped it without being able to defend your belief.

Brought up emotional arguments about sectarian violence and ignored rationality. Trying to present an emotional argument as a rational one. What a joke??

This must be one of the most disappointing attempts at trying to be rational by you. You could have just ignored the topic instead of embarrassing yourself by playing dodge ball... Seriously.

Bye.

^^^^^^

But I ask how rational are these posers?


LOL
Have you considered the following;




Is it rational to have a sex filled heaven? How probable are Quranic revelations true when we have no one but Prophet Muhammed to rely on ( and given the several improbable "scientific" theories therein and historical incompleteness and inaccuracies). Why was the Prophet so akin to wage war, sometimes unprovoked. How can Islam be the right path when many kill and find justification in the Quran? Killing even people of their own faith (Over 20,000 shias (including 6,000 children) murdered by other Muslims over faith matters just in Pakistan in the last 30 years alone!, thousands more elsewhere (Iraq, Syria Bichi and co))? Why is Allah allowing this? Why would Allah allow his religion to be spread through invasion, plunder and killings? (India, Iraq, Iran, Syria, China etc), Why would he allow some to spread terror in his name even on their own kind; flesh and blood? Why would Allah allow early Caliphs to murder themselves so in the struggle for power?

Why didn't Allah mention Jerusalem in the Quran, but allowed later Muslims to claim the place (Jerusalem)as the 3rd holiest place in Islam and the site of the Jewish temple (ironically a holy place in Judiasm known as a temple site since King Solomon) as the site to the Masjid Alaqsa? Was he not setting the foundation for future crisis that will threaten world peace? Why did Allah allow the Jews to come back to Israel and cause this violence between the Arabs (majority his best of people) and Jews(the people his Prophet cursed, and Allah once turned to apes). Why didn't he keep them scattered but allowed them to return as the Bible prophesied? Why didn't he prove the Bible wrong?

How probable is it that Allah turned some people to Apes and Monkeys because they didnt observe the Sabbath? Why, if Islam is the right path, did it recommend child brides. Even the Prophet had one; had slaves, slept with them and traded in them. If Islam is the right path why couldn't it have shown us that all these were wrong. Why would Allah intervene in the domestic affairs of the Prophet and his wives (and his sleeping with his slave without marriage) and yet refuse to save him from poison despite even the intervention of an angel?

How probable is it that the devil sleeps in our noses? Or that shooting stars are hurled at the Jinns? Or Alexander lived a ripe old age? Or Adam is superior than Angels when the later have significant control over the laws of physics? How did the Devil come about? If the Devil refused to bow to Adam what prevented God from dealing with him ASAP? If angels are less than humans, how come they can do more than we can?



Now consider this



If God is omnipotent, and nothing is beyond him, does he need a wife to have a son? Is being on earth and in heaven at the same time impossible? If understanding God so difficult or beyond our comprehension, are we expected to humanly understand the concept of the 1+1+1=1? If God can forgive humans, and indeed judge them, is it improbable for him to make himself manifest through his constituent part (remember nothing is too great for him... or are there?) If he is too great to come down to our level to offer salvation, then isn't is too great to waste his time judging us? Or even create heaven for our enjoyment? If he took such great care to make us are we not deserving of his intervention then in the form the Christians believe? Or did he waste his time creating us?


If God is great and mighty, why would you try to use your puny brain to judge his actions as improbable or not? In fact, from your logic, who are you to?


SMH



Chew on that! grin

I didn't side step.

I asked about the rationality of Islam belief while giving answers to your assertion about "irrationally" of the Christian doctrine

I merely expanded the first section of the above post which we discussed.

All the nasty stuff in Pakistan and elsewhere are real and part of the rationality question. And that's part of my argument.How straight and rational is Islam if some of its adherents misbehave so? Its a legitimate question.

its obvious it made you uncomfortable. But its real and so you have to live with it.

@Tiarabubu:

by tiarabubu: 11:30pm On Nov 23

How much of God do you know to determine what is rational or not about him.

i am almost certain that tbaba will not use lower case H when he writes Him for God. If knowing about God i indicated by the H, then the capital H guy has my vote.

Consider this; to an atheist, the existence of God himself is irrational!

If atheist are not emotional, they should ask themselves if they or it is the theist who is closer to guidance. There must be guidance because even the atheist believe there is rationality at work in his life.

If God is soo powerful, does he need a wife to "procreate"? shocked That position itself is stupidly irrational.

what is the purpose for God to even procreate? human procreates because he will die and there is another generation to replace him on earth? Does God in heaven needs a replacement?

In Christianity, God has no limit and nothing is hard for him.

and according to the Bible Jesus was allowed to die.

So is the concept of trinity impossible? Of course no; he is all powerful.

Did Yahweh ever restricted Himself? Of course. He allowed the children of Israel to be massacred in Egypt and sacked several times, even almost annihilated before zionism took root.


[quite]You can't use your human brain to rationalize God and say the concept of trinity is irrational.[/quote]Yahweh said in OT He is One. Jesus said God is One. The disciples said Jesus is the servant of God, sent to the children of Israel.

If God is All Powerful and omnipresent, as the Quran says, and yet can't have a son without procreation, is the Quran not limiting God?

God limits Himself in many cases. For example, He does not let judgment descend on the guilty until time. Patience by restriction was evidence in the case of tyrannical pharaoh. God even allows satan to live until after all humans so that each human may be judged by resisting or falling into temptation.

But all this argument is based on faith and belief and will go back and forth forever. Lets look at mundane issues, shall we;


Show me a religion today aside Islam that prompt people to systematically murder at will not as a result of insurrection, war, rebellion etc but pure murder on an epic scale[quote]Take christianity or cults from it or hindus. each take prides in killing muslims. oh, i forgot, the jews as a race.


[quote]then we will have something to talk about. A religion that murders its own kind because of ideological differences. See how Shia's are murdered in cold blood, Bahais hounded, Wahabis doing their thing.

human tragedy; England invaded Argentina because of er next door Fulkan Islands. What are the brits doing in latin america? Oh, the catholic in northern ireland were killing the protestants and England almost killed them all. Jerry Adam of Shin Feh was almost a gonna. Late sanator Ted kennedy raised funds for the irish resistant catholic.

And that is the straight path?! No thanks.

The jews rejected the path of their messiah. you reject the path of your another comforter, the "that Prophet" [sa].

What I am getting at is the foundation of belief.

foundation of belief is the book not the adherents.

The practice and actions of adherents reflects what those fundamentals are.

not always especially if the practices and actions are different from what are on the pages of the boo where you will find the foundation.

All your sugar coating Al-taquiyya will not cut it.

al taquiyya is practices by some shia. is tbaba a shia? i doubt if lagosshia even practice al taquiyya.

What further examples are there than what is happening today. By their fruits you shall know them.... remember?

so prevalent homosexu.ality in christianity is now part of the fruits of christianity? or the ritualistic phenomenon within nigerian christians is now what christianity is?

i know many people who call me dad. I am truly their dad, including my step children, each of those i do not share blood or family heritage with?

@Tiarabubu: The christian sect considers and says Warren Jeff who is in Prison in Las vegas is God on earth. see how easy to say a human is God? I remember the branch davidian under david kuresh in Waco Texas. this was also their opinion. what about Jim Jones of Jonestown in Gayana in the 1970s? each of these people considered their leaders prophet and then God on earth who must be obeyed, not jut followed. i guess christianity i still evolving.

tbaba1234: ^ NO the topic was about the christian faith, you side-steped it without being able to defend your belief.

Brought up emotional arguments about sectarian violence and ignored rationality. Trying to present an emotional argument as a rational one. What a joke??

This must be one of the most disappointing attempts at trying to be rational by you. You could have just ignored the topic instead of embarrassing yourself by playing dodge ball... Seriously.

Bye.

Tiarabubu, he is absolutely right. You know I am a fan of your debating prowess but you are failing miserably here. The reason this is happening is because you are trying to defend the untenable concept of trinity. Abandon it, and step up the ladder of enlightenment. You have so much potential but you are holding yourself back and that is a big shame for such an intelligent lady.

Wow thaba, nice "finishing". If you guys are expecting tirabuabu to answer any question about her faith, you are on a long wait for such answer reminding me of alithea whose best answer to any question about christianity is side stepping the issue and raising question about Islam, the only thing such tactics ends up proving is the unsoundness of the Chriatian theology! Any case thaba this was resounding "battery" and aggravated assualt! Abeg take am easy next time ooooo!

maclatunji:

Tiarabubu, he is absolutely right. You know I am a fan of your debating prowess but you are failing miserably here. The reason this is happening is because you are trying to defend the untenable concept of trinity. Abandon it, and step up the ladder of enlightenment. You have so much potential but you are holding yourself back and that is a big shame for such an intelligent lady.

vedaxcool: Wow thaba, nice "finishing". If you guys are expecting tirabuabu to answer any question about her faith, you are on a long wait for such answer reminding me of alithea whose best answer to any question about christianity is side stepping the issue and raising question about Islam, the only thing such tactics ends up proving is the unsoundness of the Chriatian theology! Any case thaba this was resounding "battery" and aggravated assualt! Abeg take am easy next time ooooo!

Sorry guys. If you read my posts, you would have realized the direction of the discussion. I know you are embarrassed by the actions of some of your Muslim brethren and don't want it highlighted, but since God's name is mentioned while perpetuating these heinous crimes, its gotta count somewhere in understanding the fundamentals of Islam and how it governs Muslim behavior.

Sorry guys, its the hard, cold truth!

Now consider this



If God is omnipotent, and nothing is beyond him, does he need a wife to have a son? Is being on earth and in heaven at the same time impossible? If understanding God so difficult or beyond our comprehension, are we expected to humanly understand the concept of the 1+1+1=1? If God can forgive humans, and indeed judge them, is it improbable for him to make himself manifest through his constituent part (remember nothing is too great for him... or are there?) If he is too great to come down to our level to offer salvation, then isn't is too great to waste his time judging us? Or even create heaven for our enjoyment? If he took such great care to make us are we not deserving of his intervention then in the form the Christians believe? Or did he waste his time creating us?


If God is great and mighty, why would you try to use your puny brain to judge his actions as improbable or not? In fact, from your logic, who are you to?


SMH



Chew on that! grin

tiarabubu: ^^^^^^



I didn't side step.

I asked about the rationality of Islam belief while giving answers to your assertion about "irrationally" of the Christian doctrine

I merely expanded the first section of the above post which we discussed.

All the nasty stuff in Pakistan and elsewhere are real and part of the rationality question. And that's part of my argument.How straight and rational is Islam if some of its adherents misbehave so? Its a legitimate question.

its obvious it made you uncomfortable. But its real and so you have to live with it.

Sorry guys. If you read my posts, you would have realized the direction of the discussion. I know you are embarrassed by the actions of some of your Muslim brethren and don't want it highlighted, but since God's name is mentioned while perpetuating these heinous crimes, its gotta count somewhere in understanding the fundamentals of Islam and how it governs Muslim behavior.

tiarabubu must accept her own logic that those who wear the cross and even shout Jesus and Jesus christ when they commit evils go the same way on the fundamentals of christianity and what is permissible by its holy text; stealing, killing, homosex.uality, all sorts of illegal se.x and acts.

Sorry guys, its the hard, cold truth!

we may grudgingly swallow it as the truth you thrust on us as soon as you accept what happens that we say is evll as the doer shouts Jesus and or a cross wearer.

Sweetnecta: tiarabubu must accept her own logic that those who wear the cross and even shout Jesus and Jesus christ when they commit evils go the same way on the fundamentals of christianity and what is permissible by its holy text; stealing, killing, homosex.uality, all sorts of illegal se.x and acts.


we may grudgingly swallow it as the truth you thrust on us as soon as you accept what happens that we say is evll as the doer shouts Jesus and or a cross wearer.

Haba!! Sweetnecta why must you hit so hard! Tirabuabu you see why playing dodge ball in simple discussion wouldn't help you?

S-necta u forgot to add smoking marijuana with bible page

^^LOL!

solbil: i just dont know why! Anytime you tell muslims that jesus is the son of God, they tell you something like; how can god have a son when he doesnt have a wife? To them, you can only have a son through biological means. But is it true that it is only through biology that one can become a son to another person?

Jesus made us to understand in the early part of the gospel of john that a man becomes son of his father through biology. But he becomes a child of God through the spirit. (john 3:6) good news bible.

The quran agrees that Adam is the son of God. And the same quran knows that "God does not have a wife". Yet it knows that Adam is the son of God. Which means that the idea of having a son without biological means isnt elusive to the glorious quran. Despite this, muslims just cant understand it when you tell them jesus and by extension, christians are sons of God!

find urself a work to do

solbil: thats what i hear from muslims. They would say: if jesus were son of god who then is adam?

that's bcus you fail to understand that God demostrated His power of creation in the way he wishes. U insisted that jesus is d son of God which ur simply saying God fathered jesus(as) despite the fact that He made it clear in the quran that it was said to his mother "be n it was".. On the contrary,xtians r d ones who failed to realise biology is not d only way to father/parent a child.. they believe jesus shld have a father since mary 'his mother' gave birth without a man.. In the Glorious Quran, it was seen that Allah demostrated His power to create in every way..which in this way can be categorized as follows..
1. No man, no woman in d case of Adam(as)
2. Man, no woman in d case of Eve
3. Woman, no man in d case of jesus(as) n lastly
4. Man n woman in case of human like u n me.
With d above we came to d conclusion that jesus fall in d category of creation which makes it clear his not d son of God but was created by the leave n miracles of God..