I had been thinking of a right time to do this kind of thread but I guess it came at a time such as this and due to the story below culled from this thread,

User I.d Todaynatoday on this forum wrote and I quote,

"Men, this just reminded me of a day a pastor said that all first borns are cursed and that we would need to pay 1,365 naira to be purged of the curse. He used Numbers 3:49-50 as basis for his claim. He said that we needed redemption.

49 So Moses collected the redemption money from those who exceeded the number redeemed by the Levites. 50 From the firstborn of the Israelites he collected silver weighing 1,365 shekels, according to the sanctuary shekel.


hahahahahahaha, I laughed in my mind, I won't fall for this. Firstly, how did the pastor think that 1,365 shekels if converted would be 1,365 naira. Secondly, that part of the Bible was referring to the first born of the Israelites who exceeded the number of Levites and had to be redeemed. Thirdly, I AM NOT CURSED! The pastor continued, "you must bring it this night, if it is not with you now, go home and bring it!" I was like "which kind yeye interpretation of scriptures be dis? I no go pay anything"

But alas! Before I knew it, firstborns in the church began to come out with their 1,365 naira. I was furious to say the least but to top it all (me wey say i no go pay come follow pay). My mum (who is the first daughter in her family) went home to bring the money (she's always complaining of no money but yet bkus of what the pastor said she had to "find" the money for me) and she brought it to me. I was so surprised at how quickly she got the money, (I wasn't even expecting it. We wey no even 2 get money) she gave it to me to go and pay and I told her plainly that I would not go (mhen, come & see shouting from her and the other church members "dis boy wetin dey do u sef, u no go obey ya mama? Go pay d tin" u no hear pastor?) I stood my ground and refused to pay (na dat time all of dem come multiply and enhance their shouting "go na(100x)" ) that's when i stood up and went to pay (after dropping the money, he "prayed" for the curse to go away, then I furiously stormed outta the church) I explained the verse later to her at home and she was sorry she paid (well, in a way but she still thought that the pastor didn't do anything wrong)"

...to be continue in the next post

First, the Bible as whole is written to two major groups but basically three and are,

1. The Jews or National Israel
2. The Gentiles or Non-National Israel
3. Christians, which are both Jews and Gentiles who both make up the church of God

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: I Corinthians 10:32

The bible also make it very clear that the Gentiles are NOT in the first covenant or Old covenant WHICH WAS ONLY BETWEEN GOD AND THE JEWS because Christ had not come to die and include the Gentiles in the covenant of God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
That first covenant between God and Israel had regulations for worship and a place of worship here on earth. Hebrews 9:1

Also, the Bible refer to many thing under the Old Covenant (OC) as type and shadows in which they were pointing to Christ and God teaching his redemption plan. They are not meant to be mistaken as the substance of Faith.

New Living Translation (©2007)
The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. Hebrews 10:1

...to be continued

This seems to be a great thread, subscribing I see Joagbaje is viewing this topic though he is yet to comment. I can imagine what is going on in his mind, he is probably cursing Goshen now for once again exposing the antics of fraudsters like him and spoiling business for them

Now, I know you know the scripture and before you start to quote the scripture and say, "Are we suppose to now tear the OT out of the Bible?" - No, the Bible says,

New International Version (©1984)
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. - Romans 15:4

To teach us in what sense, where some people fell, we should not fall in same manner. What some didn't do right, we should do right etc.

It also says,

New Living Translation (©2007)
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. - II Timothy 3:16

So when we teach and correct, we can quote from both old and new testament establishing a biblical truth. It does not mean that Christians are BINDING to OBEY and FOLLOW the OLD TESTAMENT. If Christians are to follow the old testament, we will be following the shadows, leaving out the substance and building on empty hopes.

God cancelled the old in order to establish the new. Christians are under the New Covenant and are NOT binding on the OLD which was ONLY between God and National Israel then. Even to the National Israel, the OLD is gone! Christians are NOT suppose to obey ANY JEWISH LAW OR REGULATIONS,

New Living Translation (©2007)
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear. - Hebrews 8:13

New Living Translation (©2007)
Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. - Galatians 2:14....meaning the Gentile Christians are NOT suppose to follow the Jewish regulations according to this scriptures.

Today, my heart bleeds when I see (or hear) how pastors confuse baby Christians and manipulate scriptures (especially in Nigeria where anything goes) in order to extort them. Don't let any pastor confuse you in mixing the old and the new testament together. Christ is the mediator of the new covenant and he has to come and die for the New Testament to be established. The New Testament is where we Christian belongs. Whatever is NOT found practiced under the New Covenant should be rejected.

Thank you and God bless you.

Nice work brah Goshen!! I'm subscribing fulltime now!

thank God i no b first born. Hehehe. For my church there is a day dedicated to first borns to band and cast the curses. Hahaha plus first born offerings.

The curse began with a tree in Eden and ended on a tree at Calvary.......Glory to God!

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree: - Galatians 3:13

If we understand "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law". We should also understand, "[Christ] being made a curse for us" and much more, it had ended on the tree at Calvary! Christ had even fulfilled the "firstborn" shadows....because he became the "firstborn from the dead". Glory to God!

Bélla3: thank God i no b first born. Hehehe. For my church there is a day dedicated to first borns to band and cast the curses. Hahaha plus first born offerings.

We do not have such practices in the new testament. It's all manipulative and means of extortion.

Goshen360: The curse began with a tree in Eden and ended on a tree at Calvary.......Glory to God!

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree: - Galatians 3:13

If we understand "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law". We should also understand, "[Christ] being made a curse for us" and much more, it had ended on the tree at Calvary! Christ had even fulfilled the "firstborn" shadows....because he became the "firstborn from the dead". Glory to God!

These points are sweet and tight.........

Keep them coming my bro......

Just imagine if I was in that church I would have also paid the firstborn fee....lol.....

Pastor Kun: This seems to be a great thread, subscribing I see Joagbaje is viewing this topic though he is yet to comment. I can imagine what is going on in his mind, he is probably cursing Goshen now for once again exposing the antics of fraudsters like him and spoiling business for them

why should i curse goshen. he may be righr he may be wrong. i will contribute if thereis room.

besides i dont curse. you guys are in the cursing bussines and you seem to be enjoying that lifestyle.

ijawkid:

These points are sweet and tight.........

Keep them coming my bro......

Just imagine if I was in that church I would have also paid the firstborn fee....lol.....

Ijawkid LDKMD for here

Goshen360:

We do not have such practices in the new testament. It's all manipulative and means of extortion.

when i said that in the church, i was almost given suspension, for the spirit of 'rebelion'

^^^ , probably because they don't even understand what rebellion means or they just want to be manipulative deliberately. Rebellion is NOT contradicting scripture to suite a leader or pastor. That is witchcraft in operation! We obey God's authority when it doesn't disobey God or contradict scriptures.

Goshen360: ^^^ , probably because they don't even understand what rebellion means or they just want to be manipulative deliberately. Rebellion is NOT contradicting scripture to suite a leader or pastor. That is witchcraft in operation! We obey God's authority when it doesn't disobey God or contradict scriptures.

i wish you could tell my pastor that. Lolz

Goshen360: Now, I know you know the scripture and before you start to quote the scripture and say, "Are we suppose to now tear the OT out of the Bible?" - No, the Bible says,

New International Version (©1984)
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. - Romans 15:4

To teach us in what sense, where some people fell, we should not fall in same manner. What some didn't do right, we should do right etc.

It also says,

New Living Translation (©2007)
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. - II Timothy 3:16

So when we teach and correct, we can quote from both old and new testament establishing a biblical truth. It does not mean that Christians are BINDING to OBEY and FOLLOW the OLD TESTAMENT. If Christians are to follow the old testament, we will be following the shadows, leaving out the substance and building on empty hopes.

God cancelled the old in order to establish the new. Christians are under the New Covenant and are NOT binding on the OLD which was ONLY between God and National Israel then. Even to the National Israel, the OLD is gone! Christians are NOT suppose to obey ANY JEWISH LAW OR REGULATIONS,

New Living Translation (©2007)
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear. - Hebrews 8:13

New Living Translation (©2007)
Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. - Galatians 2:14....meaning the Gentile Christians are NOT suppose to follow the Jewish regulations according to this scriptures.

Today, my heart bleeds when I see (or hear) how pastors confuse baby Christians and manipulate scriptures (especially in Nigeria where anything goes) in order to extort them. Don't let any pastor confuse you in mixing the old and the new testament together. Christ is the mediator of the new covenant and he has to come and die for the New Testament to be established. The New Testament is where we Christian belongs. Whatever is NOT found practiced under the New Covenant should be rejected.

Thank you and God bless you.

your revelation is out of context..Jesus never came to abolish the law rather He came to fufill it and paul was talking about circumcision that was why he was sent with barnabas to encourage d xtians dat circumcision is nothing and uncircumsion is nothing but dat keepin God's commandments is wat is right

seriallink:

Ijawkid LDKMD for here

My brother no be lie I tÀlk o......na me be first son o for me hÓuse.......lol....

.

Bélla3: thank God i no b first born. Hehehe. For my church there is a day dedicated to first borns to band and cast the curses. Hahaha plus first born offerings.

Haha. . .


@ goshen bro, I fey feel ya on this, even though pastors in da nor agree with ya. U know the truth is bitter.

This one is quite common in my experience. I am wondering if it is just me or has someone else experienced this prayer.


Prayer Leader: "Isaiah 6:1-8: In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne...........

Pray that your king Uzziah will die in Jesus name....that Uzziah that is sitting on your success and preventing you from becoming what God has planned for you...... Prayer!!!!!

Rest of the Congregation: King Uzziah die! Uzziah Holy Ghost fire! Uzzaih somersault and die! die! die! die! in Jesus name!

Is it just me or has anyone else experienced this?

Mr_Anony: This one is quite common in my experience. I am wondering if it is just me or has someone else experienced this prayer.


Prayer Leader: "Isaiah 6:1-8: In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne...........

Pray that your king Uzziah will die in Jesus name....that Uzziah that is sitting on your success and preventing you from becoming what God has planned for you...... Prayer!!!!!

Rest of the Congregation: King Uzziah die! Uzziah Holy Ghost fire! Uzzaih somersault and die! die! die! die! in Jesus name!

Is it just me or has anyone else experienced this?

LWKMD!!!

Pastor Kun: This seems to be a great thread, subscribing I see Joagbaje is viewing this topic though he is yet to comment. I can imagine what is going on in his mind, he is probably cursing Goshen now for once again exposing the antics of fraudsters like him and spoiling business for them

Lolololololol

Mr_Anony: This one is quite common in my experience. I am wondering if it is just me or has someone else experienced this prayer.


Prayer Leader: "Isaiah 6:1-8: In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne...........

Pray that your king Uzziah will die in Jesus name....that Uzziah that is sitting on your success and preventing you from becoming what God has planned for you...... Prayer!!!!!

Rest of the Congregation: King Uzziah die! Uzziah Holy Ghost fire! Uzzaih somersault and die! die! die! die! in Jesus name!

Is it just me or has anyone else experienced this?

lololol. You're not alone

Mr_Anony: This one is quite common in my experience. I am wondering if it is just me or has someone else experienced this prayer.


Prayer Leader: "Isaiah 6:1-8: In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne...........

Pray that your king Uzziah will die in Jesus name....that Uzziah that is sitting on your success and preventing you from becoming what God has planned for you...... Prayer!!!!!

Rest of the Congregation: King Uzziah die! Uzziah Holy Ghost fire! Uzzaih somersault and die! die! die! die! in Jesus name!

Is it just me or has anyone else experienced this?

@ Everyone and Anony,

You see this very verse when I was a baby Christian. There was a minister of God that was invited from GOFAMINT to minister in our pentecostal church then. When this minister used this very scripture of "Isaiah 6:1-8: In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne........... . Even our Pastor then was jumping up and marveled at the so called "revelation".

When I began to sit myself down to be a student of the word, I found out what the New Testament says "It MUST die" in the life of a believer. Therefore, I understand (from the New Testament) that a king is one who rule over the other. What is it that rules as a type and shadow of king Uzziah and MUST die in the life of a believer (in the new testament) are the following:

1. Old man or old nature

New Living Translation (©2007)
Either way, Christ's love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life. - II Corinthians 5:14

2. Sin

New International Version (©1984)
By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Romans 6:2

3. Self

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
however, she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives. I Timothy 5:6

Preach it bro!

Unfortunately I think a lot of this arises from a reading of 'the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence' and since they don't 'see' 'violence' in the NT, people resort to the OT to 'copy' that violence into their own lives.

However, as you've highlighted, you can be aggressive and violent against sin to eradicate it from your life - Jesus talked about radical amputation - cutting things off that may lead you astray.

I hope people will pray 'sinful nature somersault and die' with as much fervour.

Besides, there are more interpretations to that passage in Isaiah 6 than something dying. One interpretation is that Uzziah, though mighty and very creative went too far/breached his boundaries and that led to his death. Uzziah's time was a time of great prosperity and people must have mourned his death - the passage teaches us that even at a sad time you can still see the face of the Lord if you look up to him.

Front page

@ debosky......e be like say I go soon dash you my sister o...... . You are the man bro. However, let's rightly divide the word of truth as ministers of the New Testament; permit me to add to what you said and let's blow it up. Take a look,

In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. - Isaiah 6:1

And this complimentary and balancing scripture says Christ (Lord) is already sited on the throne, then the question will be, would there be need for any Uzziah to have to die anymore because it says, "when Uzziah died that was when I also saw the Lord sitting upon a throne...". So Uzziah is a prerequisite to seeing the Lord sitting on the throne right?

Now, the Lord is already sitted on the throne, does Uzziah have to die repeatedly

New Living Translation (©2007)
Who then will condemn us? No one--for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God's right hand, pleading for us. - Romans 8:34

All these are exercise in futility. A clear picture of religious spirit in operation. The New Testament tells us exactly things that ought to be dead or that ought to die as it regards believers. We should stop all these religious parade!

@All
let's stop all this confusion about 'the year Uzziah died'. Referencing to the year Uzziah died was a way of remembering dates in the ancient times. Years were tied to major events that happened around the time period becos they did not have calendars to chart years as we have it today. So if i want to reference something that happend in say 2001, i would say the year terrorists attacked america and took down the twin towers. There is no religious or spiritual meaning to the analogy it was just a reference to the date.

Pastor Kun: @All
let's stop all this confusion about 'the year Uzziah died'. Referencing to the year Uzziah died was a way of remembering dates in the ancient times. Years were tied to major events that happened around the time period becos they did not have calendars to chart years as we have it today. So if i want to reference something that happend in say 2001, i would say the year terrorists attacked america and took down the twin towers. There is no religious or spiritual meaning to the analogy it was just a reference to the date.

I agree with you especially on the "bolded". They even forget that Jesus Christ is a direct descendant of Uzziah (genealogically speaking, see Matthew 1: 1-16)