We all know that ishmael married an Egyptian. Therefore the Egyptian people were in exxistence. If ishmael is the father of Arabs then it follows that the arabs came long after the Copts in Egypt. Wich means that the Arabs in Egypt are invaders ( history has it correct here that the arabs invaded egypt shortly after Muhammad death around 640 AD). I am pressured to believe that all that desert area was not populated by Arabs but Egypt was by the present day Copts. There is also a possibility that Muhammad made up his lineage to connect himself to Abraham. There is no record of Ishmael ever going to saudi arabia in the bible but we do know that he attended his dad's funeral of which I doubt that he travelled 900 miles to attend the burial.

Okay to answer your queation ,yes the copts were first occupants of egypt then the Arabs conquered egypt in 610AD during the cliphate of Umar by Amr al'as , majority of the copts converted to Islam after the Arabs took over egypt.

OP stop confusing jewish fairytales (abrahamic religion) with history.

Let me answer your question.

If you talk of the Arabs of today, they themselves are aware that they are divided into 2 categories.

The first one are the Pure Tribal Bedu Arabs of the Arab Gulf states.

These include Emiratis, Omani, Yemenis, Majority of Saudis, Kuwaitis, Qataris, Bahrainis, Southern Marsh Iraqis, Jordanian Tribals of the Wadi Al Rum region, etc. (except for the Iranian-Arabs and their mixed variants).

THey have existed for way too long. As long as the first Egyptians. They are an entirely separate Ethnic Group and Race of people. They can trace their ancestry to the Sabaaen, Nabatean, etc. civilizations.



The second variety are the Arabized Arabs who are of mixed stock, including turkish, roman, arab, levantine, etc.

THese are the Levantine Arabs who are white skinned, many have blue-grey eyes, and they are Arab only in language and religion.

They have no tribes or any other such endogamous socio-cultural groups.


They belong to countries such as lebanon, syria, jordan, palestine,etc.

these are of mixed stock, therefore are a much recent creation.



Yes Arabs invaded Egypt. Copt means Pure Egyptian. Copts, Saidi Egyptians, etc. are all mostly of pure stock.


muhammad obviously made up the lineage. The Pre-islamic Arabs never knew these jewish names. THey only cared for their tribal ancestry. muhammad derides them in one surah verse when two tribes boast about their Tribal ancestors (though in fact they mightve been venerating their ancestors).


ishmael has never been to Mecca or medina.

Going by the bible the Tower of Babel explains the rise of other languages and nations and hence the existence of Egyptians. Did that confusion of Babel not bring about Arabic language & race too? Arabs had to wait for the Jewish Ishmael to marry a tower of babel derivative ( egyptian) in order to start the Arab race?

640/641 AD not 610. And the present day Copts had death or dhimmiship options for them to accept islam.

spenca: Okay to answer your queation ,yes the copts were first occupants of egypt then the Arabs conquered egypt in 610AD during the cliphate of Umar by Amr al'as , majority of the copts converted to Islam after the Arabs took over egypt.

Interesting!

basilico: 640/641 AD not 610. And the present day Copts had death or dhimmiship options for them to accept islam.

Thnk you for putting it ryt

PAGAN 9JA:
OP stop confusing jewish fairytales (abrahamic religion) with history.

Let me answer your question.

If you talk of the Arabs of today, they themselves are aware that they are divided into 2 categories.

The first one are the Pure Tribal Bedu Arabs of the Arab Gulf states.

These include Emiratis, Omani, Yemenis, Majority of Saudis, Kuwaitis, Qataris, Bahrainis, Southern Marsh Iraqis, Jordanian Tribals of the Wadi Al Rum region, etc. (except for the Iranian-Arabs and their mixed variants).

THey have existed for way too long. As long as the first Egyptians. They are an entirely separate Ethnic Group and Race of people. They can trace their ancestry to the Sabaaen, Nabatean, etc. civilizations.



The second variety are the Arabized Arabs who are of mixed stock, including turkish, roman, arab, levantine, etc.

THese are the Levantine Arabs who are white skinned, many have blue-grey eyes, and they are Arab only in language and religion.

They have no tribes or any other such endogamous socio-cultural groups.


They belong to countries such as lebanon, syria, jordan, palestine,etc.

these are of mixed stock, therefore are a much recent creation.



Yes Arabs invaded Egypt. Copt means Pure Egyptian. Copts, Saidi Egyptians, etc. are all mostly of pure stock.


muhammad obviously made up the lineage. The Pre-islamic Arabs never knew these jewish names. THey only cared for their tribal ancestry. muhammad derides them in one surah verse when two tribes boast about their Tribal ancestors (though in fact they mightve been venerating their ancestors).


ishmael has never been to Mecca or medina.

Interesting info.

I didn't know all this before, thanks for the edu.

NL member:

Interesting info.

I didn't know all this before, thanks for the edu.

just doing my duty. THe Gods Bless.

PAGAN 9JA:


just doing my duty. THe Gods Bless.

Am waiting for you to do your duty in the thread i created..

sorry I didnt see that. I'm on my way.

basilico: We all know that ishmael married an Egyptian. Therefore the Egyptian people were in exxistence. If ishmael is the father of Arabs then it follows that the arabs came long after the Copts in Egypt. Wich means that the Arabs in Egypt are invaders ( history has it correct here that the arabs invaded egypt shortly after Muhammad death around 640 AD). I am pressured to believe that all that desert area was not populated by Arabs but Egypt was by the present day Copts. There is also a possibility that Muhammad made up his lineage to connect himself to Abraham. There is no record of Ishmael ever going to saudi arabia in the bible but we do know that he attended his dad's funeral of which I doubt that he travelled 900 miles to attend the burial.

am sure u are aware of biblical story of Abraham and how he drove Hagar(an egyptian slave to Sarah) who was the mother of Ishmael. So if ishmael is the grand ancestor of the arabs it only proves that copts in egypt are much older

The rate at which u people assume things nowadays is wonderful !!!


Distorting and contorting History as if U History is plastic !!!


If the poo U people are saying makes U feel alright,then fine .....keep on as Mohammed is now Panadol to you lots Headache !!!

Any muslim reading this should obviously know that their prophet is a liar. Sometimes I think muhammad knew the nazi adage that the bigger the lie the more believable it becomes.

PAGAN 9JA:
OP stop confusing jewish fairytales (abrahamic religion) with history.

Let me answer your question.

If you talk of the Arabs of today, they themselves are aware that they are divided into 2 categories.

The first one are the Pure Tribal Bedu Arabs of the Arab Gulf states.

These include Emiratis, Omani, Yemenis, Majority of Saudis, Kuwaitis, Qataris, Bahrainis, Southern Marsh Iraqis, Jordanian Tribals of the Wadi Al Rum region, etc. (except for the Iranian-Arabs and their mixed variants).

THey have existed for way too long. As long as the first Egyptians. They are an entirely separate Ethnic Group and Race of people. They can trace their ancestry to the Sabaaen, Nabatean, etc. civilizations.



The second variety are the Arabized Arabs who are of mixed stock, including turkish, roman, arab, levantine, etc.

THese are the Levantine Arabs who are white skinned, many have blue-grey eyes, and they are Arab only in language and religion.

They have no tribes or any other such endogamous socio-cultural groups.


They belong to countries such as lebanon, syria, jordan, palestine,etc.

these are of mixed stock, therefore are a much recent creation.



Yes Arabs invaded Egypt. Copt means Pure Egyptian. Copts, Saidi Egyptians, etc. are all mostly of pure stock.


muhammad obviously made up the lineage. The Pre-islamic Arabs never knew these jewish names. THey only cared for their tribal ancestry. muhammad derides them in one surah verse when two tribes boast about their Tribal ancestors (though in fact they mightve been venerating their ancestors).


ishmael has never been to Mecca or medina.

basilico: Any muslim reading this should obviously know that their prophet is a liar. Sometimes I think muhammad knew the nazi adage that the bigger the lie the more believable it becomes.

yes true this content is banned in the Arab world.

Conclusion of this post is that Ishmael is not the father of the arab nation. The other conclusion is that islam prophet faked a huge lie that Abraham with his son built the Kaaba because non of them ever appeared in Mecca at any point in their life. This makes islam a fake invented religion right from day one.

PAGAN 9JA:


yes true this content is banned in the Arab world.

I now expect muslims reading this to ask their clerics whether their prophet lied from day one. Adding to the islamic twist I also want muslims to ask their clerics whether its permissible for a muslim to accept a blood transfusion from a Jewish donor or rather a kufr donor.

donroxy: The rate at which u people assume things nowadays is wonderful !!!


Distorting and contorting History as if U History is plastic !!!


If the poo U people are saying makes U feel alright,then fine .....keep on as Mohammed is now Panadol to you lots Headache !!!

Post your proof to show that what Pagan said about Muhammed is false.

basilico: Conclusion of this post is that Ishmael is not the father of the arab nation. The other conclusion is that islam prophet faked a huge lie that Abraham with his son built the Kaaba because non of them ever appeared in Mecca at any point in their life. This makes islam a fake invented religion right from day one.

Not only fake-invented, but also plagarized.

dont forget they copied their text from judaeo-christianity and certainly rituals,temple, poetry-verse style from the Pagan Arabs whom they massacred.

I am sometimes at the level of brainwashing muslims go through. Here we are proving to them how muhammad was a common war criminal, faked his religion and they still have the audacity to try and argue in his favour. In every debate they run to the 'corrupted' bible to prove similarities of islam visaviz other faiths. Muslims argue from one point that the quran is the pure word of Allah. Cyclical reasoning. If the quran is from Allah ( and they can never use God in place of Allah) then every other thing that negates islam is wrong.

PAGAN 9JA:




Not only fake-invented, but also plagarized.

dont forget they copied their text from judaeo-christianity and certainly rituals,temple, poetry-verse style from the Pagan Arabs whom they massacred.

basilico: I am sometimes at the level of brainwashing muslims go through. Here we are proving to them how muhammad was a common war criminal, faked his religion and they still have the audacity to try and argue in his favour. In every debate they run to the 'corrupted' bible to prove similarities of islam visaviz other faiths. Muslims argue from one point that the quran is the pure word of Allah. Cyclical reasoning. If the quran is from Allah ( and they can never use God in place of Allah) then every other thing that negates islam is wrong.

yes just leave them. they are too scared to speak out. How can the Creator Force/Allah speak in "human words". That completely beats me. that too biased to one language.

You have proven here that arab race never came from Ishmael. If it did not and Abraham plus Ishmael never went to Mecca then Islam crumbles miserably on its own. Right from day one. If muslims can prove that they came from Ishmael who married an egyptian then it means that egyptians are older than muslims and the arabs in egypt oppressing Copts are invaders. Between a rock and a hard place for muslims. I dey laugh on the floor.

PAGAN 9JA:



yes just leave them. they are too scared to speak out. How can the Creator Force/Allah speak in "human words". That completely beats me. that too biased to one language.

basilico: You have proven here that arab race never came from Ishmael. If it did not and Abraham plus Ishmael never went to Mecca then Islam crumbles miserably on its own. Right from day one. If muslims can prove that they came from Ishmael who married an egyptian then it means that egyptians are older than muslims and the arabs in egypt oppressing Copts are invaders. Between a rock and a hard place for muslims. I dey laugh on the floor.

lol on point. Good observation btw.

Sometimes I remember before the invention of internet. A muslim neighbour of mine used to come for dinner and tell us how islam was a continuation of the bible. We almost fell for it. Only that one day i googled on "islam is fake" after the Mumbai massacre. I came across so much info including one site that had rewritten the quran chronologically like the bible. I ended up seeing islam for what it truly is. Never looked back. The abrogations, the hate spewed, the lies, the inferiority supremacist attitude, taqqiya, kitman, cyclic reasoning et all convinced me that islam is the hugest lie ever pulled through in human history. I get worked up when i see highly educated muslims trying to support islam and muhammad's allah invented doctrine.

PAGAN 9JA:




lol on point. Good observation btw.

true.

Am so loving this thread....u muslims should better convert and leave this made up religion.

Just to rub it in. Abraham never built the Kaaba. He and his son never went to Mecca but instead Ishmael lived in paran somewhere around negev desert and not 900 miles away in Mecca. Ishmael married an Egyptian gal and never gave birth to the arab nation which existed at that time. So any time a muslim goes on hajj he she is going t follow the pagan rituals practiced then including running around some two hills that had 2 idols which muhammad ordered to be destroyed. When Muhammad was in Medina the direction of prayer was to jerusalem but the Joos never bought that story. So the qibla (direction of prayer) was changed as in Allah changed his mind and ordered the followers to face mecca instead. Can any muslim here show us that ishmael is the father of the arab nation? NEVER ever. If we go by their most holy place we must see that it was built on a lie. What other lies did their prophet promulgate? A pandora's box might be opened to trash islam if this question is answered.

In pre-islamic times I doubt they had a "direction" of prayer. They probably prayed to whichever place their temple and idols were located.
There was another Ka'aba in Khazraj, not far from Mecca as well. It is said to have been covered with a red cloth. Im not sure. It was dedicated to a Goddess.

PAGAN 9JA:

There was another Ka'aba in Khazraj, not far from Mecca as well. It is said to have been covered with a red cloth. Im not sure. It was dedicated to a Goddess.

The goddess must have been Al manat. She was one of the three goddesses that were widely worshipped before islam and she was worshipped by the tribe of Khazraj.

If muhammed had not abrogated the satanic verses then maybe muslims would also go on pilgrimage to her kaabah like they do for allah.

NL member:

The goddess must have been Al manat. She was one of the three goddesses that were widely worshipped before islam and she was worshipped by the tribe of Khazraj.

If muhammed had not abrogated the satanic verses then maybe muslims would also go on pilgrimage to her kaabah like they do for allah.

Yes you are absolutely right.

these muslims lie that women were illtreated in Jahilliyah. they do not realise that if a people can worship the forces in the symbolic form of a woman, then their women are in much better position and social standing. one of muhammads most important wives was an idependant merchant trader and elder to him.

PAGAN 9JA:

Yes you are absolutely right.
these muslims lie that women were illtreated in Jahilliyah. they do not realise that if a people can worship the forces in the symbolic form of a woman, then their women are in much better position and social standing. one of muhammads most important wives was an idependant merchant trader and elder to him.

Muhammed really trashed the status of women with his fake religion. He even led the muslims of his time to believe that Allah held the view that all women are inherently stupiid.

That guy was a real pathological liar.
Spouting lies left and right like no man's business.

NL member:
Muhammed really trashed the status of women with his fake religion. He even led the muslims of his time to believe that Allah held the view that all women are inherently stupiid.

That guy was a real pathological liar.
Spouting lies left and right like no man's business.

what a world. how can we let such muhammads and jesuses ruin our planet. we must at as much as we can against this evil.