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Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 10:04pm On Dec 14, 2012
Denise216:

And again, for the record, you considered Miller's quote an attack, not me.
The quote can't possibly be an attack! On who? Atheists?
It's just an observation.
What i interpreted as attack was the part about taking religion more seriously than the practitioners.
"Taking religion more seriously..." alludes to those bashing in whatever guise atheists dump on religion and religious folks. The passion involved in those bashing.
That's what I interpreted as attack.
I'll like to believe you misunderstood me.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 4:40am On Dec 28, 2012
kwangi:
I'll like to believe you misunderstood me.

That might be the case.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 4:54am On Dec 28, 2012
kwangi: They don't. What kind of proof do you want or expect. In what form?
That aside, YOU ARE ON POINT!
We're saying the same thing.
But...It's not really that far fetched considering the fact that any attack on religion or religious people covers Paganism.
This' what I mean. Do you think the response in the first link about witchcraft, wiccans, and all that would be the same if those involved were Nigerian Atheists?

I usually look for a consensus in the form of an organization or platform with an agenda. This would meet the standard of evidence as far as proof.

As far as your question; I'm not familiar with the Nigerian Atheist perspective no Pagan belief systems. Do these Pagan beliefs compromise the safety and security of the people, in or outside of it? Does it hinder social progress or influence legislation? Those are usually questions that Atheists ask when assessing a religion /belief system. Nigerian Atheists might see all beliefs systems in that regard. What do you think?
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 4:47pm On Dec 28, 2012
Denise216:

That might be the case.
That is the case
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 5:01pm On Dec 28, 2012
Denise216:

I usually look for a consensus in the form of an organization or platform with an agenda. This would meet the standard of evidence as far as proof.

As far as your question; I'm not familiar with the Nigerian Atheist perspective no Pagan belief systems. Do these Pagan beliefs compromise the safety and security of the people, in or outside of it? Does it hinder social progress or influence legislation? Those are usually questions that Atheists ask when assessing a religion /belief system. Nigerian Atheists might see all beliefs systems in that regard. What do you think?
The answer is no to all your questions.
As for the Nigerian atheist, being an atheist for him/her is a status of "enlightenment" and "exposure" (You must agree those terms are relative).
They attack everybody who does not subscribe to atheism. Labeling them as ignorant and of lower IQ.
They don't care whether any of the religions under their attack pose any threat to the social, political... life of the society.
And paganism is devoid of any of these ills.
If they consider thing the way those guys in your link do, people would find it hard terming atheism a religion.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 11:33pm On Dec 28, 2012
Logicboy03:

There is no god mentioned, just a hopeful statement. You didnt say "in Jesus/Buddha's name"
Was going through this thread and read this again. I didn't want to modify my previous answer to this.
My question to logicboy is: What are prayers if not hopeful statements?

1 Like

Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Femmymata2: 12:10pm On Dec 29, 2012
cyrexx:

seriously, you think Islam cant survive the next two centuries?

With the high birth rate among muslim communities, their strong Islamic indoctrination from childhood, refusal to modify and rationalise Islamic belief system in light of modern science and with the persecution and sometimes the threat of fatwa on those who dare to leave islam, methinks Islam is here to stay for a very very long time.

People will still need the comfort and community support that only religion can provide, even if religious claims are not verifiable and logically sensible.

Until humans are able to answer all the great perplexing questions of life and find meaning for their life without resorting to religion, religion is here to stay, maybe forever till the end of time.

I must also add to my prediction that secularism and humansim, which are based on atheism, will continue to flourish and increase all the more. More closet atheist will begin to come out. Some muslims and christians are secretly atheists. They just dont want to be ostracised from their family and friends by openly challenging and questioning some things in their religion. But in the future, it will be easier to declare oneself an atheist or agnostic.
This is an intelligent post. As an athiest i believe religion will be around forever,but i'm hoping knowledge will increase towards liberating ourselves from self-induced delusion
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 5:40pm On Dec 29, 2012
Femmymata2: This is an intelligent post. As an athiest i believe religion will be around forever,but i'm hoping knowledge will increase towards liberating ourselves from self-induced delusion
Everybody is deluded.
It depend on who you ask.
To that muslim guy, you are the most deluded person on the earth's surface!
So, chill on your self induced arrogance.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by naijaboyof4life: 6:15am On Feb 09, 2013
Atheist:-D:
Xtians seem to take Islam more seriously than the practitioners....no?? cool
since when or you mean it is the other way around
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by naijaboyof4life: 6:39am On Feb 09, 2013
Atheist:-D:


Because of the damage religion does by these practitioners.

As long as religion brings forth good things it will have a role in society. If it brings forth the evil we witness on a daily basis then I would prefer to address these issues.

Think of religion today being a placebo pill filled with a poisonous substance. It might solve one or two isues but it creates a whole new set of problems that are much more dangerous.

What evil has religion done to this world. It is non-Christians causing the problems of the world. Now let name what non-Christians have done to this planet.
1. Adolph Hitler - responsible for the death of 6 million jews
2. Osama Bin Laden - Responsible for most terrorist attacks on people.
3. Africans leaders
i. Responsible for the selling of their people during the slave trade
ii. Responsible for the brain drain happening.
iii. Bunch of western butt-lickers that do and copy whatever western nations tell them to do or are doing. (mind you real-Christianity was not created in the western world, it was created by our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ from Heaven down to earth (israel) then it spread across)
4. Chinese governments - Put their people under oppression with no freedom of speech.
5. African dictators - responsible for killing of innocent blood.
6. Soviet union leaders - all atheist and killed people that didn't believe in their own goal.
7. Racist people (most whites) - who felt that people who were not like them should be in chain or be segregated against.
8. Mass shooting that happen in america are done by a bunch of phyco atheists

Now let us talk about what Christians have done to this world, I mean Christians not fake Christians.
1. Abraham Lincoln - Freed the slaves even though not because he loved black people that much. He never had slaves. Even recites a quote that was spoken by Jesus, "a house divided against itself cannot stand."
2. Martin Luther King - was against violence and was for peaceful protest(faith with works), if not for God that used him with other black people, some of you here talking will not be talking.
3. Some of the founding fathers of america - believed in natural right given by God.
4. Christians missionaries - going around the world preaching the gospel and feeding the poor while being prosecuted.
and all others that I forgot to mention.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 7:08am On Feb 09, 2013
naijaboyof4life:

What evil has religion done to this world. It is non-Christians causing the problems of the world. Now let name what non-Christians have done to this planet.
1. Adolph Hitler - responsible for the death of 6 million jews
2. Osama Bin Laden - Responsible for most terrorist attacks on people.
3. Africans leaders
i. Responsible for the selling of their people during the slave trade
ii. Responsible for the brain drain happening.
iii. Bunch of western butt-lickers that do and copy whatever western nations tell them to do or are doing. (mind you real-Christianity was not created in the western world, it was created by our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ from Heaven down to earth (israel) then it spread across)
4. Chinese governments - Put their people under oppression with no freedom of speech.
5. African dictators - responsible for killing of innocent blood.
6. Soviet union leaders - all atheist and killed people that didn't believe in their own goal.
7. Racist people (most whites) - who felt that people who were not like them should be in chain or be segregated against.
8. Mass shooting that happen in america are done by a bunch of phyco atheists

Now let us talk about what Christians have done to this world, I mean Christians not fake Christians.
1. Abraham Lincoln - Freed the slaves even though not because he loved black people that much. He never had slaves. Even recites a quote that was spoken by Jesus, "a house divided against itself cannot stand."
2. Martin Luther King - was against violence and was for peaceful protest(faith with works), if not for God that used him with other black people, some of you here talking will not be talking.
3. Some of the founding fathers of america - believed in natural right given by God.
4. Christians missionaries - going around the world preaching the gospel and feeding the poor while being prosecuted.
and all others that I forgot to mention.

Ignorant christian

-The Europeans who engaged in the African slavery were largely christians. The big chrisitan denominations were ok with slavery at the time and apologized- the cathllic church, baptists, Anglicans etc

-Hitler was a christian who believed that killing the Jews was the work of our lord

-#there were also civil rights leaders who were not christians

-many of the founding fathers had slaves

-kindky explain what the christian founders of America did to the native indians when they got to america. The native indians were almost wiped out
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by striktlymi(m): 8:27am On Feb 09, 2013
naijaboyof4life:

What evil has religion done to this world. It is non-Christians causing the problems of the world. Now let name what non-Christians have done to this planet.
1. Adolph Hitler - responsible for the death of 6 million jews
2. Osama Bin Laden - Responsible for most terrorist attacks on people.
3. Africans leaders
i. Responsible for the selling of their people during the slave trade
ii. Responsible for the brain drain happening.
iii. Bunch of western butt-lickers that do and copy whatever western nations tell them to do or are doing. (mind you real-Christianity was not created in the western world, it was created by our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ from Heaven down to earth (israel) then it spread across)
4. Chinese governments - Put their people under oppression with no freedom of speech.
5. African dictators - responsible for killing of innocent blood.
6. Soviet union leaders - all atheist and killed people that didn't believe in their own goal.
7. Racist people (most whites) - who felt that people who were not like them should be in chain or be segregated against.
8. Mass shooting that happen in america are done by a bunch of phyco atheists

Now let us talk about what Christians have done to this world, I mean Christians not fake Christians.
1. Abraham Lincoln - Freed the slaves even though not because he loved black people that much. He never had slaves. Even recites a quote that was spoken by Jesus, "a house divided against itself cannot stand."
2. Martin Luther King - was against violence and was for peaceful protest(faith with works), if not for God that used him with other black people, some of you here talking will not be talking.
3. Some of the founding fathers of america - believed in natural right given by God.
4. Christians missionaries - going around the world preaching the gospel and feeding the poor while being prosecuted.
and all others that I forgot to mention.

Good morning naijab,

I admire your zeal but the above is ridden with all manners of fallacies! Logicboy responded well though some of his comments too are fallacious!

Fallacy jam fallacy!


#Observing...
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 11:47am On Feb 09, 2013
striktlymi:

Good morning naijab,

I admire your zeal but the above is ridden with all manners of fallacies! Logicboy responded well though some of his comments too are fallacious!

Fallacy jam fallacy!


#Observing...


YOU MUST BE SILLY.

You know that his comment was full of fallacies but as a christian you couldnt accept the fact that an atheist (me) corrected him and showed him how evil christians can be. You want to pull me down with your brothers fallacious comments


Show me something fallacious about my comment please or shut up. angry
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by striktlymi(m): 2:43pm On Feb 09, 2013
Logicboy03:


YOU MUST BE SILLY.

You know that his comment was full of fallacies but as a christian you couldnt accept the fact that an atheist (me) corrected him and showed him how evil christians can be. You want to pull me down with your brothers fallacious comments


Show me something fallacious about my comment please or shut up. angry

grin
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 6:11pm On Feb 15, 2013
Logicboy03:


YOU MUST BE SILLY.

You know that his comment was full of fallacies but as a christian you couldnt accept the fact that an atheist (me) corrected him and showed him how evil christians can be. You want to pull me down with your brothers fallacious comments


Show me something fallacious about my comment please or shut up. angry
Bro, you gotta take it easy.
You could have simply asked her to point out the fallacies. Emotional outbursts like this is what allows people to assert that atheists take religion more seriously than the practitioners.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 6:13pm On Feb 15, 2013
striktlymi:

Good morning naijab,

I admire your zeal but the above is ridden with all manners of fallacies! Logicboy responded well though some of his comments too are fallacious!

Fallacy jam fallacy!


#Observing...
Please, point out the fallacies for logicboy.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 3:50pm On Feb 16, 2013
kwangi: Please, point out the fallacies for logicboy.

obviously striklyme has nothing
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 3:14am On Feb 28, 2013
kwangi: The answer is no to all your questions.
As for the Nigerian atheist, being an atheist for him/her is a status of "enlightenment" and "exposure" (You must agree those terms are relative).
They attack everybody who does not subscribe to atheism. Labeling them as ignorant and of lower IQ.
They don't care whether any of the religions under their attack pose any threat to the social, political... life of the society.
And paganism is devoid of any of these ills.
If they consider thing the way those guys in your link do, people would find it hard terming atheism a religion.

Atheism isn't a religion and you're perception of condescension as an attack is a bit extreme. I think you might have an issue with the lack of humility and unwillingness to hide their lack of belief, even daring Muslims, Christians, and Pagans to violate their right to express themselves freely. I find it quite brave.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 3:39am On Feb 28, 2013
Denise216:

Atheism isn't a religion and you're perception of condescension as an attack is a bit extreme. I think you might have an issue with the lack of humility and unwillingness to hide their lack of belief, even daring Muslims, Christians, and Pagans to violate their right to express themselves freely. I find it quite brave.
A bit extreme? That's an attack!
Just accept that.
Ofcourse, you can't be humble and be in fight mode at the same time! That's why there is lack of humility and 'unwillingness to hide their lack of belief".
Your choice of words are interesting. The way you couched the part about belief...
...Lack of belief! Everybody lacks belief!!!
The question is, in what? There are two ways to say that.
-their lack of belief in the supernatural.
-their belief in the non-existence of the supernatural.
Their (atheist) lack of belief in the supernatural is inevitably a belief in something else. I noticed it was convenient for you to just write lack of belief and just stop there.
Since religion is a belief system, don't you think atheism falls into that category? Atleast, the law courts in your dear country thinks it is.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 1:22am On Mar 01, 2013
kwangi: A bit extreme? That's an attack!
Just accept that.
Ofcourse, you can't be humble and be in fight mode at the same time! That's why there is lack of humility and 'unwillingness to hide their lack of belief".
Your choice of words are interesting. The way you couched the part about belief...
...Lack of belief! Everybody lacks belief!!!
The question is, in what? There are two ways to say that.
-their lack of belief in the supernatural.
-their belief in the non-existence of the supernatural.
Their (atheist) lack of belief in the supernatural is inevitably a belief in something else. I noticed it was convenient for you to just write lack of belief and just stop there.
Since religion is a belief system, don't you think atheism falls into that category? Atleast, the law courts in your dear country thinks it is.

It's not an attack just because it makes you uncomfortable. Religion is a political economic system, no more no less. I used the word "belief" out of respect for people its more than that. Your problem is that they aren't hiding what they believe and for some reason you feel entitled to an explanation. Go figure.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 8:48am On Mar 01, 2013
^^There's really nothing in my post that's difficult to understand!
Ok, if they are not attack then what are they?
I think you just don't want to accept that because it doesn't help your argument.
As for the belief part, forget it. Can't you see you are running in circles?
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by ijawkid(m): 10:24am On Mar 01, 2013
kwangi: A bit extreme? That's an attack!
Just accept that.
Ofcourse, you can't be humble and be in fight mode at the same time! That's why there is lack of humility and 'unwillingness to hide their lack of belief".
Your choice of words are interesting. The way you couched the part about belief...
...Lack of belief! Everybody lacks belief!!!
The question is, in what? There are two ways to say that.
-their lack of belief in the supernatural.
-their belief in the non-existence of the supernatural.
Their (atheist) lack of belief in the supernatural is inevitably a belief in something else. I noticed it was convenient for you to just write lack of belief and just stop there.
Since religion is a belief system, don't you think atheism falls into that category? Atleast, the law courts in your dear country thinks it is.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 11:05am On Mar 01, 2013
Logicboy! You have not answered my question about prayers!
Did you forget innocently or conveniently?
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 2:28am On Mar 02, 2013
kwangi: ^^There's really nothing in my post that's difficult to understand!
Ok, if they are not attack then what are they?
I think you just don't want to accept that because it doesn't help your argument.
As for the belief part, forget it. Can't you see you are running in circles?

I'm not running in circles, I'm not just giving you what you want; support for your offense. It's not an attack, its an observation that has no affect on your ability to practice your beliefs. You have this idea of how non-religious/non-spiritual people should conduct themselves. You're also projecting; being offended doesn't grant you victim status and that is something you having a problem accepting.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 3:55am On Mar 02, 2013
Na wa o!
I think you've lost it.
Who's the victim?
Read the topic again, it's a question, not a complain.
You see what I 'm talking about? You're assuming things.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 10:15am On Mar 02, 2013
kwangi: Na wa o!
I think you've lost it.
Who's the victim?
Read the topic again, it's a question, not a complain.
You see what I 'm talking about? You're assuming things.

You took offense to an observation that doesn't impact your faith or ability to practice it. You still consider it an "attack" and for no good reason other than it made you uncomfortable. Deal with it kiddo, they're saying worse about Blacks in Brazil.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 11:28am On Mar 02, 2013
Denise216:

You took offense to an observation that doesn't impact your faith or ability to practice it. You still consider it an "attack" and for no good reason other than it made you uncomfortable. Deal with it kiddo, they're saying worse about Blacks in Brazil.
Wow!
Looks like you are the one taking offense.
You sound really pissed.
Please do away with the emotional outbursts. You risk sounding incoherent
Try and see things for what they are, even if the reality doesn't go down well with you.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 11:21am On Mar 03, 2013
kwangi: Wow!
Looks like you are the one taking offense.
You sound really pissed.
Please do away with the emotional outbursts. You risk sounding incoherent
Try and see things for what they are, even if the reality doesn't go down well with you.

^ Is a better example of "running in circles". I guess the point is to get me to focus on defending my emotional or lack of emotional state instead focusing on the issue. I find this happens a lot with male debaters when they can't support/defend their own premise and the opponent is female. Stay on topic, defend your premise, or concede, either way is better than the stunt you're trying to pull.

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