Forgive me for my tardiness, please. I've been a bit under the weather. I just don't want to hold up the discussion any longer than I already have, so I'll offer my explanation now.

The Church is the bride of the Lord Christ. She is also called the Jerusalem above or the heavenly Jerusalem and the mother of us all. Between Jesus and her, all believers are born. She is the fullness of Him that filleth all in all, and we can say that she is clothed in the glory of the One Whose Glory, like the light of the Sun, is unborrowed but all His Own. She is His co-ruler. Through her, the Lord governs His dominions, hence the crown of twelve stars (in the Scriptures, the number twelve symbolizes government). She is no mere tool for her Lord but is one with Him in Purpose and Nature, of her the Scriptures say that the Lord will be glorified or admired in His Saints. She is the Glory of her Lord. Like the moon, she reflects her Lord, however, unlike the moon, she is herself the expression of her Lord quite like the light of the sun is the expression of the sun. For this reason, she can be said to be positionally greater than the moon which is only a mirror. So, it is in order that she be described as having the moon under her feet.

If all the above cannot be faulted, then we can say that the man-child she produces is a company of believers. It cannot be the Lord Christ Himself because He is the Husband of the Church not the child. The 144 000 are described as the firstfruits of the Lamb. The man-child is presented as being caught up to God's Throne at birth, apparently in preference to the woman's other children. But remember that the mother of us all and therefore her children reigns with Christ. So the Throne of God is not the exclusive purview of the man-child, his brethren have a share as well in It. But he has the share of the firstborn. The man-child exercises the full right and power of the Throne of God. That is his inheritance, his brethren, on the other hand, exercise varying degrees of that right and power according to their attainment in Christ. The man-child is the group of believers of all generations who press on unwaveringly till they have attained to the full purpose of God's call. They are only another representation of the 144 000.

I think that brings us to the questions I asked you about the rewards. But before we delve into those, do you have any problems with my depositions concerning the woman and the man-child?

One more thing about the man-child that actually destroys the argument that it is the Lord Christ is that the child was caught up to God's Throne at birth. Evidently, that did not happen with our Lord Jesus, but Scriptures speak of a coming of age of believers, an attainment to the age of responsibility at which time we are assured of a crown. Remember Paul saying that there was laid up for him a crown after his race was done. The man-child is a compound word. It speaks of maturity as well as youth. Consider that the Church has been travailing and groaning and in upheaval for very long now, why is this so? She is suffering birth pangs: she is birthing her first son. Maturity is an individual fight for believers but the Throne is a collective responsibility, therefore as each believer attains unto the full maturity, he is in waiting until his brethren come of age too. As soon as their number is completed, together they are entrusted with all the responsibilities of God's Throne. So even though it is a company of full-grown men, it is a new-born baby when their number is completed.

Ok, now I wait.

Ihedinobi: Forgive me for my tardiness, please. I've been a bit under the weather. I just don't want to hold up the discussion any longer than I already have, so I'll offer my explanation now.

The Church is the bride of the Lord Christ. She is also called the Jerusalem above or the heavenly Jerusalem and the mother of us all. Between Jesus and her, all believers are born. She is the fullness of Him that filleth all in all, and we can say that she is clothed in the glory of the One Whose Glory, like the light of the Sun, is unborrowed but all His Own. She is His co-ruler. Through her, the Lord governs His dominions, hence the crown of twelve stars (in the Scriptures, the number twelve symbolizes government). She is no mere tool for her Lord but is one with Him in Purpose and Nature, of her the Scriptures say that the Lord will be glorified or admired in His Saints. She is the Glory of her Lord. Like the moon, she reflects her Lord, however, unlike the moon, she is herself the expression of her Lord quite like the light of the sun is the expression of the sun. For this reason, she can be said to be positionally greater than the moon which is only a mirror. So, it is in order that she be described as having the moon under her feet.

If all the above cannot be faulted, then we can say that the man-child she produces is a company of believers. It cannot be the Lord Christ Himself because He is the Husband of the Church not the child. The 144 000 are described as the firstfruits of the Lamb. The man-child is presented as being caught up to God's Throne at birth, apparently in preference to the woman's other children. But remember that the mother of us all and therefore her children reigns with Christ. So the Throne of God is not the exclusive purview of the man-child, his brethren have a share as well in It. But he has the share of the firstborn. The man-child exercises the full right and power of the Throne of God. That is his inheritance, his brethren, on the other hand, exercise varying degrees of that right and power according to their attainment in Christ. The man-child is the group of believers of all generations who press on unwaveringly till they have attained to the full purpose of God's call. They are only another representation of the 144 000.

I think that brings us to the questions I asked you about the rewards. But before we delve into those, do you have any problems with my depositions concerning the woman and the man-child?

One more thing about the man-child that actually destroys the argument that it is the Lord Christ is that the child was caught up to God's Throne at birth. Evidently, that did not happen with our Lord Jesus, but Scriptures speak of a coming of age of believers, an attainment to the age of responsibility at which time we are assured of a crown. Remember Paul saying that there was laid up for him a crown after his race was done. The man-child is a compound word. It speaks of maturity as well as youth. Consider that the Church has been travailing and groaning and in upheaval for very long now, why is this so? She is suffering birth pangs: she is birthing her first son. Maturity is an individual fight for believers but the Throne is a collective responsibility, therefore as each believer attains unto the full maturity, he is in waiting until his brethren come of age too. As soon as their number is completed, together they are entrusted with all the responsibilities of God's Throne. So even though it is a company of full-grown men, it is a new-born baby when their number is completed.

Ok, now I wait.

Thanks my brother, i no mind the 'tardiness'. How are you doing now, hope better? i feel your poimts on the woman being the church, but it could still be Israel, as most of what you gave are equally applicable to Israel. Jehovah is Israel's Sun. Compare Psalm 84:11, Psa_27:1; Isa_60:19,20; Mal_4:2. On twelve symbolising government in scriptures, i'm not very aware of that except for of course Israel which has 12tribes. i don't fault your paragraph though i'm still hooked to that scripture that pictured/symbolised Israel as consisting stars, sun and moon.
Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
The patriachs of Israel are here typified as stars, moon and sun, and the woman in Revelation is clothed with this symbols.
The other paragraphs are quite breath-taking to me. i may need some time perhaps to digest and study on that. It has always seemed more straightforward and plain to me that the woman is Israel and the man-child Jesus. Consider again below,
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
i think/thought this a picture of the expectation of the Messiah by Israel.

Luk 3:15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
Luk 7:19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come or look we for another?
Gen 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Mat 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Luk 1:69 And hath raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luk 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
This on the way Satan wanted to kill Jesus as soon as He was born. See Matthew 2. The 144,000 were sealed from hurt.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
It says the woman brought forth a man child. It's easier and straight to see A man child Jesus than to see man child 144000 which were likely made up of male and female.
i do not see where the passage states that the child was caught up to God's Throne at birth. It only says her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. The passage is consistent with Jesus in the scripture below,
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Of course, i agree that we the saints will rule with Christ as Rev 2v26,27 also says. It's more consistent with Jesus who was caught up in the ascension.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
This fits Israel more than the church. i don't think the church has any wilderness runnings to do. i know the Israelites were warned by Jesus to flee ata certain time. So also the prophets.
Jer 6:1 O ye children of Benjamin, gather yourselves to flee out of the midst of Jerusalem, and blow the trumpet in Tekoa, and set up a sign of fire in Beth-haccerem: for evil appeareth out of the north, and great destruction.
Jer 4:29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
Jer 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
It's more practical for a nation Israel's inhabitants to flee to a particular place prepared her of God, than for the church universal to flee to a particular place.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Again, it mentions man child. Doesn't refer to firstfruits or firstborns(a position Israel can also fit into)

These are some of my simple reasons why i think the woman to be Israel as a nation(not the man Jacob), and the man child to be Jesus.

My dear brother, I am recovering quite nicely, thank you. And I am completely at home with your expression of willigness to study any part of my submissions some more. Now, if I may, let me answer your core protests.

I have always assumed that you are aware that the Old Covenant and all that pertained to it was a shadow of things to come and these things to come are fully and finally captured in the New Covenant. The shadows were imperfect and could not hold fully that which the Real would when it finally came. The Israel of which you spoke, the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob after the flesh, was a promise of the true Israel drawn from all the families of the Earth: the Israel of God. As such, much that was written of her was actually in view of the One to which she pointed. In truth, the Israel of the flesh cannot be herself described as the woman in Rev 12 any more than the city Abraham sought was really earthly.

As for the man-child, even were we to insist that it is the Lord Jesus Himself, as He is so are we. But I tell you, my dear brother, as Jehovah is the Husband of Israel, so is Jesus the Husband of the New Israel.

Finally, keep in mind that the New Covenant replaced and cancelled out the Old.

Sorry, I missed two, perhaps crucial, things. One is the issue of the man-child being firstborn, the other is the man-child being caught up to the Throne at birth.

Taking the latter first, the Scriptures are enough evidence. They paint the dragon as waiting for the delivery of the man-child so that he could destroy it. We are then told that the man-child is born and caught up to the Throne. You tell me, please, how any other conclusion fits.

As for the matter of the firstborn, someone else on this forum, I forget who now, ran an analysis of the Scriptural meaning of the firstborn. It simply speaks of preeminence. The firstborn is the one who inherits the place and work of his father. I believe that that was symbolized with the inheritance of a double portion. The firstborn naturally followed order of birth unless the one who was so by birth proved unworthy or an act of God picked another out. Consider Jacob, Reuben, Joseph and Judah; or Ephraim and Manasseh; or Jacob and Esau.

There is a Throne to which every Christian is called. It is the Throne of God and it is large enough to accommodate all the called, but only those who overcome will come into the full inheritance of it. If my previous analysis proves correct, then the fact that the man-child is caught up to the Throne before their brethren confers pre-eminence among their brethren upon them, a little like Joseph with his brothers. Thus, among believers, they may be said to have the place of the firstborn.

Consider also that the Firstborn actually represents the rest of the family necessarily. This is something like what the firstfruits of the harvest symbolizes: a taste and a promise of the rest of the harvest. The firstfruits is for all intents and purposes the whole harvest, the full harvest is not expected to depart from the bounds of the firstfruits which are expected to be the best of the harvest. The Bible calls the 144 000 the firstfruits of the Lamb and describes them as a sort of inner circle of God's King, then it speaks of the man-child as caught up to the Throne before their brethren apparently. Go figure.

Rapture....wishful thinking copied from the hallucinatory renderings o some illiterates.

deezzle: Rapture....wishful thinking copied from the hallucinatory renderings o some illiterates.

You wish.

deezzle: Rapture....wishful thinking copied from the hallucinatory renderings o some illiterates.

a) Read revelations in the bible.

b) Read harry potter while high on alcohol/weed



A and B, no difference

Logicboy03:



a) Read revelations in the bible.

b) Read harry potter while high on alcohol/weed



A and B, no difference

So where are the wand-wavers and magic schools in Revelations and the visions of heaven in Harry Potter, I wonder?

Ihedinobi:

So where are the wand-wavers and magic schools in Revelations and the visions of heaven in Harry Potter, I wonder?

1) Magical Creatures
-Harry Potter; multiple headed demon (dog), Dragons
-Revelations in the bible; Multple headed demon (beast), Dragons

2) Prophecy
-Harry Potter- wizards prophecy
-Revelations in the bible- apostles prophecy

3) Battle between good and evil
-Harry potter- Dumbledores army+ the good wizards Vs the bad wizards + Voldermort (a serpent-like bad guy)
-Revelations- Heavens army+ the righteous VS the demons + Satan (a serpent-like bad guy)



The difference between Logicboy and Ihedinobi? Logiboy reads, criticises and thinks about literature. Ihedinobi submits to whatever he is told about the literature.

Logicboy03:

1) Magical Creatures
-Harry Potter; multiple headed demon (dog), Dragons
-Revelations in the bible; Multple headed demon (beast), Dragons

2) Prophecy
-Harry Potter- wizards prophecy
-Revelations in the bible- apostles prophecy

3) Battle between good and evil
-Harry potter- Dumbledores army+ the good wizards Vs the bad wizards + Voldermort (a serpent-like bad guy)
-Revelations- Heavens army+ the righteous VS the demons + Satan (a serpent-like bad guy)



The difference between Logicboy and Ihedinobi? Logiboy reads, criticises and thinks about literature. Ihedinobi submits to whatever he is told about the literature.

Is that right? Logicboy reads, I know, criticizes, well, in a manner of speaking, but think about anything? Most definitely not. Logicboy is an intellectual ostrich, if I ever knew one.

In any case, literature employs quite a few techniques including allegory, a type of symbolism. Perhaps if you read Animal Farm, you'd really think that George was speaking of pigs and chickens. Wouldn't be too surprising considering your intellectual prowess.

Ihedinobi:

Is that right? Logicboy reads, I know, criticizes, well, in a manner of speaking, but think about anything? Most definitely not. Logicboy is an intellectual ostrich, if I ever knew one.

In any case, literature employs quite a few techniques including allegory, a type of symbolism. Perhaps if you read Animal Farm, you'd really think that George was speaking of pigs and chickens. Wouldn't be too surprising considering your intellectual prowess.

lolololol. I takes deep thinking to criticise. You contradicted yourself.


unfortunately, revelations can not be symbolism. It would render the whole book meaningless. There is a political tone to the animal farm. One will easily recognize the symbolism there. But for the revelations to be symbolism or just metaphorical, one would be left with nothing but an epic story of the forces of good and evil. Nothing more.


Wow.....Ihedinobi hitchslapped with his own straw man (of animal farm)

Logicboy03:


lolololol. I takes deep thinking to criticise. You contradicted yourself.


unfortunately, revelations can not be symbolism. It would render the whole book meaningless. There is a political tone to the animal farm. One will easily recognize the symbolism there. But for the revelations to be symbolism or just metaphorical, one would be left with nothing but an epic story of the forces of good and evil. Nothing more.


Wow.....Ihedinobi hitchslapped with his own straw man (of animal farm)

Is there ever a time that you're noy a complete waste of thoughtful conversation?

How much thought does it take to say, "that's really terrible hat you've got on?" I only have to dislike the hat to criticise it. There is a morr involved thoughtful criticism too. You are terrific at the first and clueless at the second.

About Revelations, why should I waste my own time showing you how easy it is to tell that it is all symbolic? Like I said, my friend, you're too dumb for people who have challenging lives to lead to sit around conversing with. Obviously, you think that Revelations holds that a strange breed of leoard will rule the world someday.

Ihedinobi:

Is there ever a time that you're noy a complete waste of thoughtful conversation?

How much thought does it take to say, "that's really terrible hat you've got on?" I only have to dislike the hat to criticise it. There is a morr involved thoughtful criticism too. You are terrific at the first and clueless at the second.

About Revelations, why should I waste my own time showing you how easy it is to tell that it is all symbolic? Like I said, my friend, you're too dumb for people who have challenging lives to lead to sit around conversing with. Obviously, you think that Revelations holds that a strange breed of leoard will rule the world someday.

See what Anonyism does to you? You start talking nonsense. False analogies.

Anyone reading my comment would see that I have read the bible and harry potter in depth and I gave an analysis- a critical analysis on the fictional nature of both.

Now, you then compare my criticism to that of criticising a hat out of simple dislike, no other reason. A rational and truthful person would see through your nonsense and put up a better analogy;

I would criticise a hat with an analysis- The hat is crooked, frayed and not in the right size for the head.



You sir, are a great disciple of Anony's dishonesty.

Ihedinobi:

Is there ever a time that you're noy a complete waste of thoughtful conversation?

How much thought does it take to say, "that's really terrible hat you've got on?" I only have to dislike the hat to criticise it. There is a morr involved thoughtful criticism too. You are terrific at the first and clueless at the second.

About Revelations, why should I waste my own time showing you how easy it is to tell that it is all symbolic? Like I said, my friend, you're too dumb for people who have challenging lives to lead to sit around conversing with. Obviously, you think that Revelations holds that a strange breed of leoard will rule the world someday.

I am yet to find a non-magical review or analysis of revelations. You are not the first or one billionth christian to have reviewed the book of revelations. You can claim whatever you like but the precedent has been set- revelations is a book that all christians find difficult to explain due to the lack of a moral lesson other than a fight between good and even plus the fact of so many magical creatures/events that one cant separate the metaphorical from the literal.

^^^ Seriously speaking, I have some work to ddeliver about now. Goodbye.

Logicboy03:

1) Magical Creatures
-Harry Potter; multiple headed demon (dog), Dragons
-Revelations in the bible; Multple headed demon (beast), Dragons

2) Prophecy
-Harry Potter- wizards prophecy
-Revelations in the bible- apostles prophecy

3) Battle between good and evil
-Harry potter- Dumbledores army+ the good wizards Vs the bad wizards + Voldermort (a serpent-like bad guy)
-Revelations- Heavens army+ the righteous VS the demons + Satan (a serpent-like bad guy)

Logicboy03:

Anyone reading my comment would see that I have read the bible and harry potter in depth and I gave an analysis- a critical analysis on the fictional nature of both.

Now, you then compare my criticism to that of criticising a hat out of simple dislike, no other reason. A rational and truthful person would see through your nonsense and put up a better analogy;

Is this what you call 'a critical analysis' of both? Ihedinobi's comparison to a hat is too lenient on you. Your analysis is completely devoid of any thinking whatsoever.

Your 'critical analysis' is tantamount to saying the following

1. A football is spherical

2. A cannonball is spherical

Conclusion - both are objects are designed to be kicked around on a football pitch.

Logicboy's rubbish analysis #debunked!

debosky:



Is this what you call 'a critical analysis' of both? Ihedinobi's comparison to a hat is too lenient on you. Your analysis is completely devoid of any thinking whatsoever.

Your 'critical analysis' is tantamount to saying the following

1. A football is spherical

2. A cannonball is spherical

Conclusion - both are objects are designed to be kicked around on a football pitch.

Logicboy's rubbish analysis #debunked!

Wow, even more nonsense anonyism!! Failed analogies.


Here is what I said in summary;
1) The bible contains fictional characters and magical creatures
2) Harry Potter contains fictional characters and magical creatures


conclusion; the bible and harry potter are books of fiction.


----------------------------


Now can everyone see why I say that some narialand christians are dubious intellectual cowards

Logicboy03:

1) Magical Creatures
-Harry Potter; multiple headed demon (dog), Dragons
-Revelations in the bible; Multple headed demon (beast), Dragons

2) Prophecy
-Harry Potter- wizards prophecy
-Revelations in the bible- apostles prophecy

3) Battle between good and evil
-Harry potter- Dumbledores army+ the good wizards Vs the bad wizards + Voldermort (a serpent-like bad guy)
-Revelations- Heavens army+ the righteous VS the demons + Satan (a serpent-like bad guy)



The difference between Logicboy and Ihedinobi? Logiboy reads, criticises and thinks about literature. Ihedinobi submits to whatever he is told about the literature.

Logicboy03:
Wow, even more nonsense anonyism!! Failed analogies.

Here is what I said in summary;
1) The bible contains fictional characters and magical creatures
2) Harry Potter contains fictional characters and magical creatures

conclusion; the bible and harry potter are books of fiction.

That is not what you said - all you did was pick on superficial similarities and arrived at a conclusion. This is NO DIFFERENT from comparing a football to a cannonball. Like Ihedinobi said, such superficial analysis is well suited to individuals of low intellect like Logicboy.

Harry Potter contains fictional characters - why? Because the author set out to create fictional characters - she intended to do so. The book of Revelations were described, by it's author, as a vision, not fiction.

Conclusion - Two different books with completely intents cannot be classified as the same.

Conclusion - Logicboy cannot even make a simple comparison without exposing his appalling lack of intellectual depth.

Logicboy's rubbish analysis #debunked AGAIN!

debosky:

That is not what you said - all you did was pick on superficial similarities and arrived at a conclusion. This is NO DIFFERENT from comparing a football to a cannonball. Like Ihedinobi said, such superficial analysis is well suited to individuals of low intellect like Logicboy.

Harry Potter contains fictional characters - why? Because the author set out to create fictional characters - she intended to do so. The book of Revelations were described, by it's author, as a vision, not fiction.

Conclusion - Two different books with completely intents cannot be classified as the same.

Conclusion - Logicboy cannot even make a simple comparison without exposing his appalling lack of intellectual depth.

Logicboy's rubbish analysis #debunked AGAIN!

[img]http://3.bp..com/-dC_w--zmOWU/UBchGTo8dLI/AAAAAAAAAYo/Tspy6jnfDWo/s1600/Not_This_Bullshit_Again.jpg[/img]

.

Martian: It is important to note that the ban on Christianity is aimed directly at the Catholic church. During this time period the Catholic church was building political power though the guise of Christianity, and behind the curtain were claiming assets for the Catholic church. The Japanese Shoguns were smart enough to see the long term goals of the church and were not fooled by the pretense of missionaries being in Japan for good works.



...........unfortunately, most of the indigenous leaders in africa had(and still have) the intellect of Ihedinobi

qatar is a muslim country and they are doing fine

Been holding myself since buh please accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior u say quatar is doing well lol just one d no. Of muslim contries not doing well ouweighs d ones doing well let me list a few iraq,iran,pakistan,afgahnistan,syria, even d once peaceful egypt them many n those saying Jesus didn't know d earth was round u r wrong wen he was talking about rapture he said in dat day many shall look for death and will not find it and also said he shall come like a thief in the night in d same chapter I'm sure they didn't understand him then but we do now cus we knw d facts aint talking further