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Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 5:59pm On Dec 20, 2012
Sweetnecta, you had better write your own quran because as I said above over which you are silent, your interpretation is as you think it should be, not as it is.

All islamic scholars say Mohammed was commanded to read (see my post above addressed to you for details) but you alone say it is to recite plus other lies. There is nothing you say again that will have credibility. Once a liar, always a liar. Lai lai la (lie lie lie).
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by tbaba1234: 8:43pm On Dec 20, 2012
This is from Lanes lexicon: A classical arabic dictionary

as used in a case of this kind app. signifies properly he read, or recited, the Scripture chanting; like as ,

1 properly signifies " he recited" poetry " chanting with a high voice:"

http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000030.pdf

Do you now get it?


I don't wanna go in too deep with you because you don't even know what you are talking about.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 9:36pm On Dec 20, 2012
@Proo212:
by proo212(m): 5:50pm

when Jibril [as] said at the cave to Muhammad [sa] "IQRA" Muhammad [sa] cant pick up a book and read, cant proclaim any message or anything, but can only recite by saying what he heard. He heard Iqra and after hearing it repeated it. then he told people. He didnt add to or remove from what he heard.


According to your argument, I think what Mohammed should have said was "Recite" 3 times when Jibril to him to recite...since that is what he heard Jubril say, Jubril did not tell him anything else (If you believe the word Iqra'a means to recite).
i figure someone will think like you just did in the bold.

the first argument against it is that Jibril [sa] continued the revelation upon Muhammad [sa] saying he cant recite, since he was not a poet, he couldnt say he cant read since he knew he cant read, he couldnt say he cant proclaim since he had nothing to proclaim, by finishing the first verse the word IQRA is and continued on to add 4 other verses. Muhammad [sa] got the message that he was to recite because God opened his heart to it. Jibril further confirmed after it as he occupied the whole horizon by tell Muhammad [sa] "I am Jibril and you are a messenger of God".

other evidence against your idea is that there is no 2 words that follows each other in the Quran. none. other arguments would be that every ramadhan, Jibril would come to muhammad and both will recite to each other what is Quran at that time [a fraction of what is Quran now]. they would do this one each time to each other. There was no time Jibril says to Muhammad, the Iqra in surah Alaq is more than 1 at the beginning. In the last year of Muhammad on earth, that Ramadhan, they recited it in an unusual manner; 2 times to each other whereby Muhammad told his companion that that may be his last year on earth.


so that you know, if a muslims says, IQRA in that verse 1000 times before he continues and recite the whole verse, the people will just assume that he is repeating it and count it as just 1 time in the verse. you can repeat a word, a verse, etc in recitation. it does not matter because there is a continuation process that everyone understands when you recite.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 10:07pm On Dec 20, 2012
@Tbaba

This talk about Mohammed commanded by Gabriel to'recite' is false. What all other islamic scholars, including an authority in islam, Pickthall said is 'read'.

Apart from Sweetnecta who cooked the idea of 'recite' which you are now copying, who again said is 'recite'? Where else did you see 'recite'. Please let us know your source(s). Wait a minute: you once said you have many sources you can refer to, please do before you are tagged a 'liar' like sweetnacta (sweetliar).

If you cannot show your source(s) it means you and sweetnecta are trying to formulate your own quran for the purpose of this argument.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 10:43pm On Dec 20, 2012
Tbaba

We are not discussing arabic definition of 'recitation' your complex dictionary shows. Are you saying Pickthall who interpreted the whole quran that is internationally accredited and one of the most popular translations didn't understand all you are trying to explain before he wrote ''Mohammed was commanded to read''?

The owner(s) of www.islambasics.com and other islamic scholars who said Mohammed was commanded to 'read' didn't know all you are explaining before they said so?

Don't try to explain away the truth. Those who are following this thread are not fools even though some fanatics may turn blind eyes to good reasoning.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by proo212(m): 4:55pm On Dec 21, 2012
Truthman2012, do not mind sweetnecta and tbaba. These guys are slimy. Is IQRA recite or read? They have decided in this instance that IQRA means to recite. Their Quran doesn't seem to agree with them though

One of the ways they add Mohammed to the bible is to quote Isaiah 29:12 as the one referred to in the scripture of one who cannot "READ" to support Surah 96:1 which says 96:1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Iqra/ bi-ismi rabbika allathee khalaqa

I have given a few translations and all of the translation said READ and the reply was I/we do not know how to READ. If you notice neither the bible or the Quran says to recite but this Isaiah 29:12 verse has been used severally on this board to support Deut 18:18

New International Version (©1984)
Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I don't know how to read."

New Living Translation (©2007)
When you give it to those who cannot read, they will say, "We don't know how to read."

English Standard Version (©2001)
And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, "Please read this." And he will say, "I cannot read."

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
And if the document is given to one who cannot read and he is asked to read it, he will say, "I can't read."

International Standard Version (©2012)
Or when they give the book to someone who cannot read, and say, 'Read this, please,' he answers, 'I don't know how to read.'"

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then you give the book to someone who can't read, saying, "Please read this." He answers, "I can't read."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray you: and he says, I am not learned.

American King James Version
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray you: and he said, I am not learned.

American Standard Version
and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I am not learned.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the book shall be given to one that knoweth no letters, and it shall be said to him: Read: and he shall answer: I know no letters.

Darby Bible Translation
And they give the book to him that cannot read, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I cannot read.

English Revised Version
and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Webster's Bible Translation
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

World English Bible
and the book is delivered to one who is not educated, saying, "Read this, please;" and he says, "I can't read."

Young's Literal Translation
And the book is given to him who hath not known books, Saying, 'Read this, we pray thee,' And he hath said, 'I have not known books.'
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 7:50pm On Dec 21, 2012
@Proo212

Thank you my brother. These people need prayers. When they see the truth, they cannot comprehend because they are spiritually blind.Their arguments are always from spiritually-blind point of view. It is a pity. They are carnal and cannot understand things of the spirit.

The say ''the holy quran''. Tell me what is holy about Gabriel's revelations. A lying and violent spirit from satan.

Nobody can be a more sinner than Mohammed. Though it was not his fault. He is said to be a gentle, honest and quiet man before he had contact with Gabriel. But when Gabriel fully possessed him, he became another man: violent, wicked and blood-thirsty.He was a man to be pitied.

A worst christian is better than the best of muslims. Like Mohammed, many of them are naturally good, well behaved but when they become possessed of Gabriel spirit, they sting more poison than snake.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 8:55pm On Dec 21, 2012
@proo212:
by proo212(m): 4:55pm
Truthman2012, do not mind sweetnecta and tbaba. These guys are slimy. Is IQRA recite or read? They have decided in this instance that IQRA means to recite. Their Quran doesn't seem to agree with them though

One of the ways they add Mohammed to the bible is to quote Isaiah 29:12 as the one referred to in the scripture of one who cannot "READ" to support Surah 96:1 which says 96:1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Iqra/ bi-ismi rabbika allathee khalaqa

I have given a few translations and all of the translation said READ and the reply was I/we do not know how to READ. If you notice neither the bible or the Quran says to recite but this Isaiah 29:12 verse has been used severally on this board to support Deut 18:18


New International Version (©1984)
Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I don't know how to read."
do you know the exact word that was used in the original language the text of the bible you quoted? was it read or a hebrew or syriac or semitic veriant of arab "IQRA"?

IQRA has recite is the only meaning at that very first time for Muhammad [as]. it has recite for me, even today. Later IQRA has proclaim as additional meaning for Muhammad [sa] as he was preaching Islam to people, using verses of Quran. it is also proclaim for me here now as i am preaching to you. IQRA means read to all those who can read, the Quran and other books. to simply dug in your heels to read as the only meaning and begin to support it with flimsy evidence like english translation of a verse of OT is bad argument. Did the prophet [as] who God revealed this biblical verse to read it from a book or recited to himself, first and in proclamation of it as a revealed verse to his audience?

What is so interesting is that Muhammad couldn't read. Jesus didnt read his Gospel. He preached it, as in proclamation when he recited verses like "Hear this oh israel, your Lord is my Lord and He is One God". and many other verses.

come on, proo212. how are you going to argue blindly like this? If satan is playing with you, you need to walk away from the accursed soul. You may not realize it that its satan that will make you celebrate the birth of Jesus who was born in spring in december. Spring is always warmer weather, not some darn winter.

Did Jesus celebrated his own birthday? but you just cant help yourself and start a tradition that has no footing in true guidance?
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 9:53pm On Dec 21, 2012
@Proo212

I want to advise you not to have engagement with sweenecta. He is a deceitful interpreter of both the bible and the quran. You can see how he deliberately denied that Mohammed was not commanded to 'read' but 'recite' until he was proved a liar.

I deliberately did not post my source of info at first because of people like him. I know he would deny so that I could expose his lies and he fell for it.

The Bible says satan is a liar and whenever he speaks lies, he talks about himself. Sweetnecta is a liar and whenever he speaks lies he talks about himself. His words are not credible.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by aurenflani: 10:00pm On Dec 21, 2012
truthman2012: Sweetnecta, you had better write your own quran because as I said above over which you are silent, your interpretation is as you think it should be, not as it is.

All islamic scholars say Mohammed was commanded to read (see my post above addressed to you for details) but you alone say it is to recite plus other lies. There is nothing you say again that will have credibility. Once a liar, always a liar. Lai lai la (lie lie lie).

Go face your denials and sort yourself out. We are not your students in your school. Liar.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 10:33pm On Dec 21, 2012
aurenflani:

Go face your denials and sort yourself out. We are not your students in your school. Liar.

What is your point here? You are not a student truely otherwise you will know the basic thing about your false religion. Your boss, sweetnecta is telling lies that please you because you are a child of deception.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by pointblank123: 1:16pm On Dec 22, 2012
THE VERDICT:

Having gone through the arguments of both parties and in the absence of any other argument, I hereby rule as follows:

From the evidences made available by truthman2012, it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that:

(1) Gabriel is a lying spirit for commanding Muhammad to read when there was nothing to read. He has been proved as a liar.

(2) Gabriel is an evil, violent and wicked spirit because he punished Muhammad for failing to read when when there was nothing to read.

(3) Because Gabriel was an evil and lying spirit, his revelations (quran) are false. A satanic device to direct mankind to Hell.

(4) Because the quran is the book that contains the falsehood of lying Gabriel, every word in the quran is a lie. What it says about Jesus and Christianity is a part of his lies. Therefore the quran is not credible.

(5) If any muslim on nairaland goes to hell, it is not because is ignorant of the truth but because he refuses to accept the truth.

I rise.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 5:35pm On Dec 22, 2012
^^^^ if a man is given a book and he says he can not read, its the same thing with a man who is told to recite or proclaim and says i do not know how to recite [because he is not a reciter of poetry] or proclaim because there is nothing to proclaim and there is no audience to proclaim to. but to say that this man who has no book in front of him is told to read when the same word means recite or proclaim is being dishonest. you can not tell a man who is not a reader to read especially if you didnt give him a book or have taught him how to read. even if you have taught him how to read you must tell him what to read.

to recite is most appropriate because an unlearned person can at least be wise enough to repeat what you are saying, if you are saying to him recite [repeat] without saying anything else, the first time, the second time and it was the third time you said more than that word "recite" and before you stopped you had stated as part of your overall statement 'Who taught man by the Pen. Who taught man that which he knew not."


Recite: In the Name of thy Lord who created,
created man of a blood-clot.
Recite: And thy Lord is the Most Generous,
who taught by the Pen,
taught man that he knew not.
No indeed- surely man waxes insolent,
for he thinks himself self-sufficient.
Surely unto thy Lord is the Returning.


you can now accept what you accept. or rethink your idea and come up with a new understanding.

i hope you know people are taught to read and write. but you can recite meaning repeating what you hear. you are only instructed and you dont have to be taught to speak. it comes naturally in the same way it is natural to eat, etc.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 7:03pm On Dec 22, 2012
Sweenecta, are you appealing after the verdict to repeat your lies in the appeal court?

All islamic scholars said Mohammed was commanded to read and because he was could not read, Gabriel strangled/pressed him almost to death three times.

After his inability to read and punished thrice, Gabriel decided to say something which he forced him to recite. All these have been taught you by Proo212 and my humble self.

You said it was easier for Mohammed to recite as an illiterate man than to read. Yes. Since it was easier for him, why did he not recite that Gabriel had to torture him thrice. Was he unable to recite as well? What called for his punishment if he recited? That further confirms that he was commanded to do what he was incapable of doing - read.

If a man cannot read, he must be able to recite. What is recitation? It means to repeat what is told or memorized. Why would Mohammed not be able to recite what is told him in his own language that made Gabriel punish him so severely? Lies.

The case remains as judged by Pointblank. Your lies are not admissible in the spiritual appeal court of justice.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 8:36pm On Dec 22, 2012
@pointblank 123;
by pointblank 123: 1:16pm
THE VERDICT:

Having gone through the arguments of both parties and in the absence of any other argument, I hereby rule as follows:

From the evidences made available by truthman2012, it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that:

(1) Gabriel is a lying spirit for commanding Muhammad to read when there was nothing to read. He has been proved as a liar.

(2) Gabriel is an evil, violent and wicked spirit because he punished Muhammad for failing to read when when there was nothing to read.

(3) Because Gabriel was an evil and lying spirit, his revelations (quran) are false. A satanic device to direct mankind to Hell.

(4) Because the quran is the book that contains the falsehood of lying Gabriel, every word in the quran is a lie. What it says about Jesus and Christianity is a part of his lies. Therefore the quran is not credible.

(5) If any muslim on nairaland goes to hell, it is not because is ignorant of the truth but because he refuses to accept the truth.

I rise.
sidon because you aint going to where, no how. who gave you a law certificate? mushroom university in aluu. gang banger state? we need to review your credentials and you are definitely going to be disbarred or send efcc on your case for being corruptible. only a person using his hands to think will say that a man from a poetic society will think IQRA is read when it is stated to a man who is illiterate. Muhammad Ali the legendary boxer is not educated, but sure know how to belt out poetry. he coined rumble in the jungle, thriller in manila without thinking about it. it is silly to assume that a word has one meaning especially when that meaning does not fit the situation. seriously.

i was talking to my spouse. i asked her to talk. she said what am i going to talk about. i repeat. talk. she said what am i going to talk about. so i said talk about how much you love me. i saw a smile broke across her lips and her face lit up. speak. when a person hear that, except a person who had something to say along will definitely ask what is it that i should about.


you as a judge should be able to know a little about logic. if you do not know how to speak fanti, when you hear someone speaking it to you, you will definitely say i dont understand. if you are an uneducated man, you will not be able to read your language which you easily speak. if you have sight, you will know how to differentiate between yellow and green colors. but you may not be able to describe them, except point to them as different colors.


the truth is clear and different from falsehood. mr quack judge, today your license is permanently revoked and you are hereby put behind bars in kirikiri. reason is that you fail to see that christianity is not a revealed religion, but was made up. another reason is that Jesus was not a founder of any religion, but he himself practiced on that Abraham himself who was neither a jew nor a christian practiced. Jesus was not son of God because God does not have a need for any. Jesus was is not God because God does not get tortured or killed. Go is unlike anything.

I could give you tons and tons of reasons, except that i believe you have been convicted by your lack of ability to know reality from wrong. i will recommend that the prison authority get you to see shrinks for evaluations. you need it because you are infatuated with illogical.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by bigmanahmad: 12:05pm On Dec 23, 2012
WHEN A NON MUSLIM PRESENT US WITH A QUESTION, IT MAY BE THAT HE WANTS TO ACQUIRE KNOWLEDGE OR IT MAY ALSO BE THAT HE WANTS TO RIDICULE OUR DEEN...WHAT EVER HIS INTENTIONS MAY BE (GOOD OR BAD), LET US ALL KEEP IN MIND THIS VERSE OF THE GLORIOUS QUR'AN;

The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel (the evil) with one which is better (i.e. Allah ordered the faithful believers to be patient at the time of anger, and to excuse those who treat them badly), then verily! he, between whom and you there was enmity, (will become) as though he was a close friend. (41;34)

WHO KNOWS MAY BE TRUTHMAN MAY BE GUIDED THROUGH HIS CURIOSITY (ALTHOUGH IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS QUESTION DOES NOT LOOK LIKE WHAT A CURIOUS PERSON WOULD ASK)...
@TRUTHMAN and others....salam alaykum
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 2:27pm On Dec 23, 2012
bigmanahmad: WHEN A NON MUSLIM PRESENT US WITH A QUESTION, IT MAY BE THAT HE WANTS TO ACQUIRE KNOWLEDGE OR IT MAY ALSO BE THAT HE WANTS TO RIDICULE OUR DEEN...WHAT EVER HIS INTENTIONS MAY BE (GOOD OR BAD), LET US ALL KEEP IN MIND THIS VERSE OF THE GLORIOUS QUR'AN;

The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel (the evil) with one which is better (i.e. Allah ordered the faithful believers to be patient at the time of anger, and to excuse those who treat them badly), then verily! he, between whom and you there was enmity, (will become) as though he was a close friend. (41;34)

WHO KNOWS MAY BE TRUTHMAN MAY BE GUIDED THROUGH HIS CURIOSITY (ALTHOUGH IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS QUESTION DOES NOT LOOK LIKE WHAT A CURIOUS PERSON WOULD ASK)...
@TRUTHMAN and others....salam alaykum
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by pointblank123: 7:56pm On Dec 23, 2012
bigmanahmad: WHEN A NON MUSLIM PRESENT US WITH A QUESTION, IT MAY BE THAT HE WANTS TO ACQUIRE KNOWLEDGE OR IT MAY ALSO BE THAT HE WANTS TO RIDICULE OUR DEEN...WHAT EVER HIS INTENTIONS MAY BE (GOOD OR BAD), LET US ALL KEEP IN MIND THIS VERSE OF THE GLORIOUS QUR'AN;

The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel (the evil) with one which is better (i.e. Allah ordered the faithful believers to be patient at the time of anger, and to excuse those who treat them badly), then verily! he, between whom and you there was enmity, (will become) as though he was a close friend. (41;34)

WHO KNOWS MAY BE TRUTHMAN MAY BE GUIDED THROUGH HIS CURIOSITY (ALTHOUGH IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS QUESTION DOES NOT LOOK LIKE WHAT A CURIOUS PERSON WOULD ASK)...
@TRUTHMAN and others....salam alaykum

Hi

I don't think it is proper for any christian to ridicule islam as a religion. If any christian writes with the intention to ridicule, he has missed the essence of the gospel. What would it benefit anybody to get people angry by ridiculing them?

What is happening is reasoning together so that the Devil will not take advantage of us. What the muslims are saying about christianity is not to ridicule. I think they are trying to open our eyes to what they believe is the right think.

Please stop seeing writing against christianity and islam as ridicule but debate. Thank you.

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