latitude was in Lagos and then, up to Chad. That
was the extent of the whole North East. Now, some
of them can’t govern even one state… They are
now six states. I know, but you governed six states
and now, some of them have problems with one
state… Yes. What were the challenges you faced
governing the North East as a military governor?
Actually, at that time, because of competent civil
service… I was a military man but once you get to
the rank of a lieutenant-colonel, after major, you
are being taught some management courses. It
needs a few weeks for somebody who has gone
through the military management training, you
have junior staff college, senior staff college; by
that time, you will have enough experience for
most administrative jobs because you must have
had enough of the combat ones. I think I didn’t
have much problem. And then, the competent civil
servants. Civil servants then were very professional.
And not political as we have them now? No. They
were really professionals and they can disagree
with you on record, on issues. They were not afraid
to make recommendations to the military governor
or administrator? No, they were never. People like
the late Liman Ciroma, Waziri Fika, who was
eventually Secretary to the Government of
Babangida. And the late Abubakar Umar, who was
Secretary to the Government of Bauchi State; and
the late Moguno. They were real professionals,
committed technocrats. So, you didn’t really have
much challenges? No, not much challenges. There
was no insecurity then, like we have in the North
East today? No, the police then, with their Criminal
Investigation Department (CID), were very, very
competent. They interacted closely with the
people. So, criminals in the locality were easily
identified and put under severe surveillance. And
really, there was relative peace in the country.
What were your major achievements in the North
East as governor? I think the way the state was
divided into three; if you remember, it became
Borno, Bauchi and Gongola. So, the way we divided
the assets, including the civil service and so on, I
think it was one of our achievements because it
was so peaceful then. We had a committee on civil
service. And eventually you became minister of
petroleum under Obasanjo? Yes. That was the only
ministry you held under Obasanjo? Yes. During your
time as petroleum minister, what were you doing
differently that they are not doing now that has
made the sector totally rotten? Well, I was lucky
again. When I was made a minister, I met an
experienced man, a person of great personal
integrity, the late Sunday Awoniyi. He was the
permanent secretary then before the Supreme
Military Council approved the merger of the
Nigerian National Oil Corporation (NNOC) and the
Ministry of Petroleum Resources and made Nigerian
National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). Sunday
Awoniyi was then the permanent secretary of the
ministry. That was when I was sworn in eventually,
I think in 1977, it became NNPC when the ministry
and the NNOC were merged. He retired from the
civil service. Another competent technocrat,
Morinho, he became the Director of Petroleum
Resources and he had a very competent team of
Nigerian engineers, petroleum engineers and
chemical engineers. And as minister of petroleum, I
signed the contract for Warri Refinery, for Kaduna
Refinery, for more than 20 depots all over the
country, for laying of pipelines, more than 3200
kilometers and I couldn’t recall Nigeria borrowing a
kobo for those projects. And then, by the time I
became head of state, because I went to War
College in the United States before the military
handed over to the Second Republic and came
back in 1980 and then, there was coup at the end
of 1983. And that time, you can verify from
Professor Tam David-West who was Minister of
Petroleum Resources. We were exporting 100,000
barrels per day of refined products. Exporting from
the country? Yes, refined one. Refined one, not the
raw one they are taking to import to…? No. 100,
000 barrels? Yes. Because we had four refineries
then. They have all collapsed… Well, that is the
efficiency of the subsequent governments! You
achieved so much success and all that. But there
was an issue that became quite contentious:
N2.8billion. They said N2.8billion oil money was
missing. It couldn’t have been missing. The
governor of the Central Bank then, the late Clement
Isong, said it was ridiculous, that N2.8billion
couldn’t be missing because he said even the king
of Saudi Arabia, couldn’t issue a cheque of
N2.8billion. When you have paid your money for
petroleum, they are normally put in the country’s
external account and no bank will release that
amount of money at a go because it was deposited.
And then, at that time, Nigeria was exporting about
1.82 million barrels a day. And the cost of barrel a
day was about $18. You work out N2.8billion. How
could N2.8billion be missing and we still have
money to run the country? So, it was just a
political… How did that issue come about? What
happened and how did you feel during that period?
No, no. Shagari did the only honourable thing. He
ordered a judicial enquiry and put a serving Justice
of the Supreme Court, the late Justice Irikefe, to
carry out investigation. And their terms of
reference were put there. They said anybody who
had an idea of missing N2.8billion, let him come
and tell Justice Irikefe. Nobody had any evidence. It
was just rubbish. Well, later, Tai Solarin and
Professor Awojobi were confronted and Fela, the
late Fela, to go and prove their case. They had no
evidence, most of them took the newspaper
cuttings of their allegations to the tribunal. As
evidence? As their evidence…Cuttings of
newspapers publications where they said
N2.8billion was missing. That was their evidence.
That was what they took to the Irikefe panel. And
Fela sang about it! Fela was your friend. He
couldn’t have been, because of what Obasanjo
regime did to him. Because we were part of
Obasanjo regime. There is one other incident that
has also been in the public domain: that Shagari
gave you an order and you disobeyed your
commander-in-chief. What happened then? Which
order was that? That he gave you an instruction
not to go to war against Chad or something like
that? Well, that was when I became GOC. When I
came back from War College, I was in Lagos. Then,
4 Infantry Division was in Lagos, in Ikeja. I was in
War College when I was posted there before
General Obasanjo’s government handed over to
Shagari. So, when I came, after about four months
or so, I was posted to Ibadan, to command 2
Infantry Division. And after that, I was posted to Jos
to command 3rd Armoured Division. It was when I
was there as the GOC that the Chadians attacked
some of our troops in some of the islands and killed
five of them, took some military hardware and
some of our soldiers. Then, I went into Army
headquarters and told them then, the Chief of
Army Staff then, General Wushishi, why they
shouldn’t just allow a country, our neighbour to
move into our territory, where we had stationed, to
kill our people. So, I moved into Maiduguri, former
Tactical Headquarters, and I got them out of the
country. Something dramatic happened: I didn’t
know I had gone beyond Chad and somehow,
Shagari, in the United States, was sent pictures
that I was with my troops and had gone beyond
Chad, beyond Lake Chad. So, I was given direct
order by the president to pull out and I did. Oh,
you did? I did. I couldn’t have disobeyed the
president. So, I handed over the division to Colonel
Ogukwe, who was my course mate but was my…
He was in National Population Commission (NPC)? I
think so. Colonel Ogukwe. Yeah, he must have
been. I handed over the tactical headquarters to
him. So, you never went against presidential
directive? I couldn’t have. He was the Commander-
in-Chief. But maybe it was too slow for them, for me
to withdraw, but you don’t disengage so quickly.
But after that, Shagari was overthrown? Yes. Now,
they said you were invited to head the government
after the coup? Yes. As the most senior officer? Yes.
What really happened because it was not a Buhari
coup? No. Could we say you never plotted a coup
throughout your military career? No. I didn’t plot a
coup. You were not a coup plotter? No. You were
invited? Yes. Where were you when you were
invited? I was in Jos. They sent a jet to me flown by
one of General Gowon’s younger brothers. He was a
pilot. He told me that those who conducted the
coup had invited me for discussion. You went to
Lagos? I went to Lagos. I was flown to Lagos. Yes.
And they said ok, those who were in charge of the
coup had said that I would be the head of state.
And I was. When you made that statement that
‘this generation of Nigerians has no country other
than Nigeria,’ for me it was like a JFK statement
asking Americans to think of what they could do for
America. Twenty months after, your same
colleagues who invited you sacked you. What
happened? They changed their minds. They
changed their minds? So, what happened in
between that, because part of what they said when
they took over power was that you had become
“too rigid, too uncompromising and arrogated
knowledge of problems and solutions to yourself
and your late deputy, Idiagbon. What really
happened? Well, I think you better identify those
who did that and interview them so that they can
tell you what happened. From my own point of
view, I was the chairman of the three councils,
which, by change of the constitution, were in
charge of the country. They were the Supreme
Military Council, the Executive Council and the
National Council of State. I was the chairman of all.
Maybe when you interview those who were part of
the coup, they will tell you my rigidity and whether
I worked outside those organs: the Supreme
Military Council, the Council of State and the
Council of Ministers. Before I come to that, there
was also this issue of Decree 4, alleged drug
peddlers who your regime ordered shot. Looking
back now, do you think you made mistake in those
areas? You see, maybe my rigidity could be traced
to our insistence on the laws we made. But we
decided that the laws must be obeyed. But they
said it was retroactive. Yes, they said so. But I think
it should be in the archive; we said that whoever
brought in drugs and made Nigeria a transit point
committed an offence. These drugs, We We (Indian
hemp), is planted here, but the hard drug, cocaine,
most Nigerians don’t know what cocaine is. They
just made Nigeria a transit point and these people
did it just to make money. You can have a certain
people who grow Ashisha or We We and so on
because it is indigenous. Maybe some people are
even alleging that those who want to come for
operation, brought the seed and started to grow it
in Nigeria. But cocaine, it is alien to our people. So,
those who used Nigeria as a transit, they just did it
to make money. And this drug is so potent that it
destroys people, especially intelligent people. So,
the Supreme Military Council did a memo. Of
course, I took the memo to the Supreme Military
Council and made recommendation and the
Supreme Military Council agreed. There was no
dissenting voice? There was no dissenting in the
sense that majority agreed that this thing, this
cocaine, this hard drug was earning Nigeria so
much bad name in the international community
because Nigeria was not producing it, but Nigerians
that wanted to make money didn’t mind
destroying Nigerians and other youths in other
countries just to make money. So, we didn’t need
them. We didn’t need them. But there were pleas
by eminent Nigerians not to kill the three men
involved in the trafficking? Pleas, pleas; those that
they destroyed did they listen to their pleas for
them not to make hard drug available to destroy
their children and their communities? So, it is not
something you look back now at 70 and say it was
an error? No, it was not an error. It was deliberate. I
didn’t do it as an head of state by fiat. We followed
our proper system and took it. If I was sure that the
Supreme Military Council then, the majority of them
decided that we shouldn’t have done so, we could
have reduced it to long sentencing. But people who
did that, they wanted money to build fantastic
houses, maybe to have houses in Europe and
invest. Now, when they found out that if they do it,
they will get shot, then they will not live to enjoy at
the expense of a lot of people that became mental
and became harmful and detrimental to the society
and so on, then they will think twice. Decree 4 was
what you used to gag the press? Decree 4. You
people (press), you brought in Nigeria factor into it.
When people try to get job or contract and they
couldn’t get it, they make a quick research and
created a problem for people who refuse to do the
Source: Sun — with Hon Lanre Fayemi and 15
ot

Listening to very sound minds has always been my pleasure and this is certainly not an aberration.

Simple, direct, focused!

Not once did he obfuscate issues or try to pass the buck or refuse to accept responsibility!

Kai Nigeria - a land that hates her best and uplifts the dregs of society

Hmmm,at 70,ure very analytical and sound!Thought they said Buhari will be too old by 2015,now i tink i disagree!

Buhari please shut d f up.you are no saint so stop pretending like one .your stewpeed policies back then are one of nigerias many problems.mshewww

A good read, thanks for posting.

http://sunnewsonline.com/new/cover/the-sun-exclusive-buhari-bares-it-all/


And eventually you became minister of petroleum under Obasanjo?

Yes.

That was the only ministry you held under Obasanjo?

Yes.

During your time as petroleum minister, what were you doing differently that they are not doing now that has made the sector totally rotten?

Well, I was lucky again. When I was made a minister, I met an experienced man, a person of great personal integrity, the late Sunday Awoniyi. He was the permanent secretary then before the Supreme Military Council approved the merger of the Nigerian National Oil Corporation (NNOC) and the Ministry of Petroleum Resources and made Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). Sunday Awoniyi was then the permanent secretary of the ministry. That was when I was sworn in eventually, I think in 1977, it became NNPC when the ministry and the NNOC were merged. He retired from the civil service. Another competent technocrat, Morinho, he became the Director of Petroleum Resources and he had a very competent team of Nigerian engineers, petroleum engineers and chemical engineers. And as minister of petroleum, I signed the contract for Warri Refinery, for Kaduna Refinery, for more than 20 depots all over the country, for laying of pipelines, more than 3200 kilometers and I couldn’t recall Nigeria borrowing a kobo for those projects. And then, by the time I became head of state, because I went to War College in the United States before the military handed over to the Second Republic and came back in 1980 and then, there was coup at the end of 1983. And that time, you can verify from Professor Tam David-West who was Minister of Petroleum Resources. We were exporting 100,000 barrels per day of refined products.

Exporting from the country?

Yes, refined one.

Refined one, not the raw one they are taking to import to…?

No.

100, 000 barrels?

Yes. Because we had four refineries then.

They have all collapsed…

Well, that is the efficiency of the subsequent governments!

You achieved so much success and all that. But there was an issue that became quite contentious: N2.8billion. They said N2.8billion oil money was missing.

It couldn’t have been missing. The governor of the Central Bank then, the late Clement Isong, said it was ridiculous, that N2.8billion couldn’t be missing because he said even the king of Saudi Arabia, couldn’t issue a cheque of N2.8billion. When you have paid your money for petroleum, they are normally put in the country’s external account and no bank will release that amount of money at a go because it was deposited. And then, at that time, Nigeria was exporting about 1.82 million barrels a day. And the cost of barrel a day was about $18. You work out N2.8billion. How could N2.8billion be missing and we still have money to run the country? So, it was just a political…

Very interesting

Op, I cannot wait for pt3

Mods, front page please