Do you really believe that this happened? Or do you think it's metaphoric?

op where is the naked jewish girl?

advocate666: op where is the naked jewish girl?

Porn

inurmind: Do you really believe that this happened? Or do you think it's metaphoric?

It wasn't an apple. And, it happened as written.

aletheia:
It wasn't an apple. And, it happened as written.

So you believe a talking serpent for some unknown reason chose and was able to tempt eve to take a fruit which contained reasoning powers and which god for no good reason placed in Eden?

inurmind:
So you believe a talking serpent for some unknown reason chose and was able to tempt eve to take a fruit which contained reasoning powers and which god for no good reason placed in Eden?

The serpent's reason is not unknown neither did the fruit contain reasoning powers and God has a reason for all He does. Yes I believe the events of Genesis 3 happened as recorded.

aletheia:
The serpent's reason is not unknown neither did the fruit contain reasoning powers and God has a reason for all He does. Yes I believe the events of Genesis 3 happened as recorded.

wow...

Bold...

You would probably believe anything written in the bible.

Atheist:-D:

wow...

Bold...

You would probably believe anything written in the bible.

Not just anything is written in the bible.

Some things are written in the bible.

Yes, I believe that the bible is a true record / witness of everything written in it - including the events of Genesis 3.

aletheia:
The serpent's reason is not unknown neither did the fruit contain reasoning powers and God has a reason for all He does. Yes I believe the events of Genesis 3 happened as recorded.

Okay, what was the serpent's reason and what did the fruit contain?

inurmind:
Okay, what was the serpent's reason and what did the fruit contain?

The serpent was a creature. . .the power behind the serpent is shown to us in scripture:
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Gen 3:1
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:2

The reason was a desire to be god and is given thus:
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:13-14

It is not what the fruit contains. . .but rather what its source is and what it represents. The fruit comes from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As I stated earlier the account of Genesis 3 is history but it also contains for us archetypes about the condition of man. Every man (and woman) is presented with a choice. To eat from the tree of life or to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. To live or to die.

aletheia:
The serpent was a creature. . .the power behind the serpent is shown to us in scripture:
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Gen 3:1
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:2

If it was the devil then how come the snake was punished for it not the devil?
Besides, the verse you quoted does not in any way imply that it was the devil, it infact implies that it wasted snake. The term "beast of the field" could only be describing an animal.

aletheia:
The reason was a desire to be god and is given thus:
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:13-14

The reason you gave is inconsistent. How is he being like god by leading man to death?

aletheia:
It is not what the fruit contains. . .but rather what its source is and what it represents. The fruit comes from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As I stated earlier the account of Genesis 3 is history but it also contains for us archetypes about the condition of man. Every man (and woman) is presented with a choice. To eat from the tree of life or to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. To live or to die.

So the fruit was a perfectly normal fruit? Do you know what you are saying? Another funny thing is that you have started making it seem metaphoric. Anyway, if the knowledge of good and evil Is not about gifts of reason then what is it about?

inurmind:
If it was the devil then how come the snake was punished for it not the devil?

^
Perhaps you may reconsider what I wrote:

aletheia: The serpent was a creature. . .the power behind the serpent is shown to us in scripture:

Everyone involved in the tragedy was punished. . .man, woman, serpent. . .so the excuse "the devil made me do it is not tenable".

inurmind:
Besides, the verse you quoted does not in any way imply that it was the devil, it infact implies that it wasted snake. The term "beast of the field" could only be describing an animal.

Again. . .

aletheia: The serpent was a creature. . .the power behind the serpent is shown to us in scripture:

inurmind:
The reason you gave is inconsistent. How is he being like god by leading man to death?

^

aletheia:
The reason was a desire to be god and is given thus:
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:13-14

I will ascend into heaven.
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God
I will sit upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds
I will be like the most High

This is Satan's manifesto so to speak. Part of his plan to achieve his end is to co-opt man and angels in rebellion and disobedience to God.

inurmind:
So the fruit was a perfectly normal fruit? Do you know what you are saying? Another funny thing is that you have started making it seem metaphoric.

^
You want Genesis 3 to be metaphor? In what way is saying that "it also contains for us archetypes about the condition of man" making it seem metaphoric.
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.Gen 3:6
I reiterate:

aletheia:
It is not what the fruit contains. . .but rather what its source is and what it represents. The fruit comes from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The fruit is the outward, visible manifestation of nature of the tree. As Jesus says (to paraphrase): "Make the tree good and its fruit will be good. Make it bad and it's fruit will be bad."

inurmind:
Anyway, if the knowledge of good and evil Is not about gifts of reason then what is it about?

Man before the fall was a rational, thinking being so the tree of knowledge of good and evil "is not about gifts of reason". It is about a life lived apart from God, outside of God's will. It is about desiring like Satan to be god.
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:5
Thus Satan tempts by presenting us with the same desire that actuates his rebellion. . .to usurp the position of God.
So long as you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you cannot eat from the tree of life.

inurmind:

Besides, the verse you quoted does not in any way imply that it was the devil, it infact implies that it wasted snake. The term "beast of the field" could only be describing an animal.

Have you seen a ventriloquist at work before? He does the talking, but it sounds like the words are coming from the lifeless dummy in his hands. Satan was the 'ventriloquist'. Snakes do not talk.

inurmind:

The reason you gave is inconsistent. How is he being like god by leading man to death?

Satan aimed to be like God by receiving worship. By driving a wedge between God and his earthly children, he reasoned, perhaps some of the worship that they (and their unborn children) would have given to God could perhaps be diverted to him. The fact that humans would start to die as a result of their disobedience was just unfortunate collateral damage.

honeychild:

Have you seen a ventriloquist at work before? He does the talking, but it sounds like the words are coming from the lifeless dummy in his hands. Satan was the 'ventriloquist'. Snakes do not talk.

The book of genesis was talking about the snake. "beast of the field" is a word used to describe animals. I reckon it was the later scribes who wrote the other books of the bible who misinterpreted it to be the devil.
See, the bible is a book that has been modified countless times. It is a book that keeps evolving. I know this might sound crazy to you but if you read the read the book of genesis, you will find out that there was never a devil in the first place, there was never even a Jesus or a holyspirit. All these things were added later on to make the stories more credible.

inurmind: The book of genesis was talking about the snake. "beast of the field" is a word used to describe animals. I reckon it was the later scribes who wrote the other books of the bible who misinterpreted it to be the devil.

^
You are just running around chasing your own tail. Again:

aletheia:
The serpent was a creature. . .the power behind the serpent is shown to us in scripture:
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Gen 3:1
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev 20:2

Your wilful ignorance stems from your supposition that the form of the snake today is what it was then. The creature you see today is cursed and has undergone a shape-shift. The bible verses clearly show that the serpent was a creature set above other "beasts of the field". The use of the word "more subtil than" indicates that it was possessed of some intelligence and motivation and the record does show that it had the power of speech.

The bible record also shows that the power that motivated the serpent was none other than Satan.

inurmind:
See, the bible is a book that has been modified countless times.

^
You need to provide proof of this claim. Of course, this is untrue.

inurmind:
It is a book that keeps evolving.

^
Do show us the "less evolved" versions of the Bible.

inurmind:
I know this might sound crazy to you but if you read the read the book of genesis, you will find out that there was never a devil in the first place, there was never even a Jesus or a holyspirit. All these things were added later on to make the stories more credible.

This is irrelevant and diversionary. Genesis 3 is the issue here. Besides which Bible has stories of Jesus added to Genesis?

aletheia:
^
You are just running around chasing your own tail. Again:


Your wilful ignorance stems from your supposition that the form of the snake today is what it was then. The creature you see today is cursed and has undergone a shape-shift. The bible verses clearly show that the serpent was a creature set above other "beasts of the field". The use of the word "more subtil than" indicates that it was possessed of some intelligence and motivation and the record does show that it had the power of speech.

You really are not making a point. How in any way did I imply that the serpent was always like that? And you are blindly contradicting yourself: First you say the phrase "more suble than" indicates it was intelligent and could talk, yet it also indicates that it was motivated, how? Besides how come only the snake could talk? What of the other animals? Why was it the snake alone?

aletheia: The bible record also shows that the power that motivated the serpent was none other than Satan.

I thought you said we are talking about genesis 3 alone? If we go by that chapter there was not even a devil in the first place, just an animal called the serpent.

aletheia: ^
You need to provide proof of this claim. Of course, this is untrue.


^
Do show us the "less evolved" versions of the bible.


This is irrelevant and diversionary. Genesis 3 is the issue here. Besides which Bible has stories of Jesus added to Genesis?

One sentence: do some research on Buddha, Krishna, and the canaanite gods.

I believe it happened. However I do believe it's much amenable to being called mythical. That said I have a question for you inurmind: Do you believe that life sprung from non-life and somehow through evolutionary processes devleoped other lifeforms ?

inurmind: First you say the phrase "more suble than" indicates it was intelligent and could talk, yet it also indicates that it was motivated, how? Besides how come only the snake could talk? What of the other animals? Why was it the snake alone?

^
1. If you want to argue about a word, then acquaint yourself with the connotations and denotations of the word. "Subtil" means crafty, cunning, prudent as used in the KJV bible. Craft or cunning implies intelligence. Intelligence implies motives.

2. This particular snake spake. . .the Bible record is clear on that. . .And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Did all snakes in the Garden of Eden speak. Perhaps or perhaps not. What is clear and evident is that this one serpent (or snake) spoke.

inurmind:
I thought you said we are talking about genesis 3 alone? If we go by that chapter there was not even a devil in the first place, just an animal called the serpent.

And the bible is clear that the power behind and motivating the serpent is Satan. If you are hinging your argument on the word "devil", then its pitiable. Devil just means false accuser and slander. So even if that word doesn't occur in Genesis 3, the false accusation and slander which is the activity of the devil is clearly and evidently seen. And so by the simple deductive principle of "if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it's a duck" applies.

inurmind:
One sentence: do some research on Buddha, Krishna, and the canaanite gods.

This is not an answer, just empty bluster and posturing behind the fig leaves of pretend scholarship: If the book of Genesis antedates your Buddha and Krishna by 1000s of years, how then can these be examples of "less evolved versions" of the bible. You need to try harder. Again I ask you:

aletheia: Do show us the "less evolved" versions of the Bible.

aletheia:
The serpent's reason is not unknown neither did the fruit contain reasoning powers and God has a reason for all He does. Yes I believe the events of Genesis 3 happened as recorded.

thank you.

aletheia:
^
1. If you want to argue about a word, then acquaint yourself with the connotations and denotations of the word. "Subtil" means crafty, cunning, prudent as used in the KJV bible. Craft or cunning implies intelligence. Intelligence implies motives.

2. This particular snake spake. . .the Bible record is clear on that. . .And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Did all snakes in the Garden of Eden speak. Perhaps or perhaps not. What is clear and evident is that this one serpent (or snake) spoke.


And the bible is clear that the power behind and motivating the serpent is Satan. If you are hinging your argument on the word "devil", then its pitiable. Devil just means false accuser and slander. So even if that word doesn't occur in Genesis 3, the false accusation and slander which is the activity of the devil is clearly and evidently seen. And so by the simple deductive principle of "if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it's a duck" applies.


This is not an answer, just empty bluster and posturing behind the fig leaves of pretend scholarship: If the book of Genesis antedates your Buddha and Krishna by 1000s of years, how then can these be examples of "less evolved versions" of the bible. You need to try harder. Again I ask you:

Okay, I'm going to create a thread centering on the book of genesis, particularly chapter 3, with archeological, cultural and historical evidence backing me. It's about time we all made ourselves aware of the truth.

Uyi Iredia: I believe it happened. However I do believe it's much amenable to being called mythical. That said I have a question for you inurmind: Do you believe that life sprung from non-life and somehow through evolutionary processes devleoped other lifeforms ?

Frankly I do believe in evolution. And it's not just because of the fossils, it's because I see it on my own body. But that doesn't mean I'm satisfied with the knowledge gained. As humans we still need to seek truth, to gain knowledge. But the bible is like a prison, religion is like a life sentence. It mocks the intellect of man, blinds his reasoning. And I believe we should have passed the stage of believing in fairy godmothers, tales of Cinderella's missing shoe and Santa Claus. But we really haven't, we are just as naive and gullible as little children, now it's just in a different casing.

Evolution........is like a theory to me and not a fact

Dibangoking: Evolution........is like a theory to me and not a fact

i thought it is called "evolutionary theory" and not "evolutionary facts"

have they changed the name?

"It's easy to be an atheist when your successful...but it is very difficult to be an atheist when you are laying on your death bed ... you begin to think, what if these people (Christians) are right?" - Donald Whitaker

To you people claiming to be an atheist, here is a quote from a former Atheist now a Christian.

Ask yourself where are people like Thomas Hobbs?

Change before is too late
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." - Jesus (Revelation 3:20)

buffstical: "It's easy to be an atheist when your successful...but it is very difficult to be an atheist when you are laying on your death bed ... you begin to think, what if these people (Christians) are right?" - Donald Whitaker

To you people claiming to be an atheist, here is a quote from a former Atheist now a Christian.

Ask yourself where are people like Thomas Hobbs?

Change before is too late
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." - Jesus (Revelation 3:20)

many atheists remain atheists on their death beds. Hitchens, a perfect example.

by the way, your link is not opening