https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGXVRFrqjXs&feature=share&list=PL532842D8006E79BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Ml_M7b2g8&list=PL532842D8006E79BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uht4o_fJKUo&feature=share&list=PL532842D8006E79BC

Nice video Frosbel.

All this effort to stop Christians going to church? I did a search and came up with the root cause of this heretical teaching and found out that it is called Spirit and Truth international which is a splinter group of a popular Cult organisation called the Way International. Wolves in sheep clothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_International#Criticism_and_cult_allegations

^^

Trust a cult member to defend his cult.

The video in no way discourages fellowshipping in larger congregations, it simply defines exactly what church means and reinforces the truth that Christians do not have to meet in large groups.

Summary : We can meet in 2s or 3s or in smaller groups, in the home, work place or even market square

"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20

frosbel:

Trust a cult member to defend his cult.

I have read the history of the cult you are following in the suggested link (wikipedia) above, or are you here to defend it?

^^^^

Oh dear, true to form , deeperlife members show their inate ability to slander anyone who leaves their closed cult.

I am not a member of the way international or truth or tradition, I attend a church in my locality which thank God is not the deeperlife cult.

However , I find many of the articles on the truth or tradition web site truly revealing and refreshing.

frosbel: ^^^^

Oh dear, true to form , deeperlife members show their inate ability to slander anyone who leaves their closed cult.

I am not a member of the way international or truth or tradition, I attend a church in my locality which thank God is not the deeperlife cult.

However , I find many of the articles on the truth or tradition web site truly revealing and refreshing.

You may like to think that you are not a member of the Way international but if where you attend now believes and teaches what they teach you may as well count yourself as part of them. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then its most likely to be a duck, don't you think?

OLAADEGBU:

You may like to think that you are not a member of the Way international but if where you attend now believes and teaches what they teach you may as well count yourself as part of them. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then its most likely to be a duck, don't you think?

You have added false witnessing and lying to your hobby of slander , first off, I am only realizing that truthortradition broke away from way international due to some scandals etc, which is a good thing , no ?

Secondly, I never agree with anyone 100% , I follow my bible closely nowadays.

Keep up with your slander and false witnessing, SATAN must be proud

I suggest you listen to the message and stop attacking unrelated or disconnected people.

frosbel:

You have added false witnessing and lying to your hobby of slander , first off, I am only realizing that truthortradition broke away from way international due to some scandals etc, which is a good thing , no ?

Secondly, I never agree with anyone 100% , I follow my bible closely nowadays.

Keep up with your slander and false witnessing, SATAN must be proud

I suggest you listen to the message and stop attacking unrelated or disconnected people.

"Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone" (Hosea 4:17).

I think the time has come for me to leave you alone to your deeds and to follow you with prayer trusting the Lord to deal with you in His own time if its not to late, for He is longsuffering.

^^^

Keep your advice to yourself.

God knows those who are his.

Now stop derailing this beautiful thread.

frosbel: ^^^

Keep your advice to yourself.

God knows those who are his.

Now stop derailing this beautiful thread.

Of cause the advice is for me. Here is another one our Lord Jesus Christ gave to His disciples in reference to the hypocritical Pharisees of His own day:

"Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch" (Matthew 15:14).

I'll leave you with your blind followers until y'all fall into the ditch.

OLAADEGBU: All this effort to stop Christians going to church? I did a search and came up with the root cause of this heretical teaching and found out that it is called Spirit and Truth international which is a splinter group of a popular Cult organisation called the Way International. Wolves in sheep clothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_International#Criticism_and_cult_allegations

Bro Ola, I can't remember where Frosbel said people should not go to church. We are the church and we only gather together not forsaking the assembly of ourselves (as church). I think it is wrong for you say out-rightly that the video or Frosbel meant to stop Christians from going to church.

Just my little observation though

frosbel: ^^

Trust a cult member to defend his cult.

The video in no way discourages fellowshipping in larger congregations, it simply defines exactly what church means and reinforces the truth that Christians do not have to meet in large groups.

Summary : We can meet in 2s or 3s or in smaller groups, in the home, work place or even market square

"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20

The church has structure. Spiritually and in leadership. Two or three people gathering does not constitute a local assembly. Family prayer is still christian fellowship, colleague meeting at lunch hour in the office is still christian fellowship but it doesn't constitute a local church.

Joagbaje:

The church has structure. Spiritually and in leadership. Two or three people gathering does not constitute a local assembly. Family prayer is still christian fellowship, colleague meeting at lunch hour in the office is still christian fellowship but it doesn't constitute a local church.

Abi oh the local church must not be done away with or how else would the likes of Oyaks be able to accumulate billions from church members. Meanwhile uncle Joe how are you preparing for first fruit sunday? is it today or next week sunday in your church? I am sure mega bucks would have started rolling in by now as some companies have started paying January salary. Any which way sha Maga must pay.

It is all well and good to say the church should have 'structure'; but it is pitiful to be flippant and dismissive of Jesus' words that where two or three are gathered in His name there He is in their midst.

For example, I see a reference to "the local church"? OK then: which is 'the local church' in Yaba or Ikeja or Ikoyi? And what is a "local assembly"?

When two or three gather together, why is that not a "local assembly"?

Do the different denominations and abominations holding different church services at the same time on the same street even sometimes in different parts of the same building ------ more importantly never coming together and worse even competing with one another --- amount to a "local church"?

Digression:

Meanwhile @frosbel

Here on this thread you are saying some people are in a cult; whereas only a few hours earlier you had yourself said that the Pentecostal movement attacks those opposed to them by calling them cults. https://www.nairaland.com/1171911/it-true-man-christ-not/5#14022724

Interesting.

Enigma:

Digression:

Meanwhile @frosbel

Here on this thread you are saying some people are in a cult; whereas only a few hours earlier you had yourself said that the Pentecostal movement attacks those opposed to them by calling them cults. https://www.nairaland.com/1171911/it-true-man-christ-not/5#14022724

Interesting.

I would not like to generalize the Pentecostal movement, maybe I used the word too loosely. There are still many good ministries out there that I listen to , learn from , and would want to fellowship with.

However, I have had some pretty bad experiences in some churches that like to call others cults, when in fact they possess more of the attributes and character of a cult.

2 churches I attended for instance , who are experts in calling others cults , had the following traits :

- They had a supreme leader who they looked up to, emulated and copied.
- You contest one doctrine and you cannot be a worker , your membership will also be suspect
- You leave the church and you lose all your friends and brethren on advice from church leadership
- They have a dress code which members are expected to adhere to
- To act and think like a Berean makes you a dangerous person
- They sever ties between you and your blood relatives
- Insist on not taking medicine in some cases , which has caused the death of many members ( yet they call JW a cult for refusing blood transfusion )

Many more to list, let me end here.


For cults who exhibit these traits to call other 'churches' cults , is the epitome of hypocrisy and Phariseeism .

Pastor Kun:

Abi oh the local church must not be done away with or how else would the likes of Oyaks be able to accumulate billions from church members. Meanwhile uncle Joe how are you preparing for first fruit sunday? is it today or next week sunday in your church? I am sure mega bucks would have started rolling in by now as some companies have started paying January salary. Any which way sha Maga must pay.

Uncle Joe we are still awaiting your testimony oo! How much first fruits were you able to rake in today? Hope you were able to meet your target

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm3Jm7iP5Kg

Joagbaje:

The church has structure. Spiritually and in leadership. Two or three people gathering does not constitute a local assembly. Family prayer is still christian fellowship, colleague meeting at lunch hour in the office is still christian fellowship but it doesn't constitute a local church.

intarasting, but i'd rather sit and watch.

Goshen360:

Bro Ola, I can't remember where Frosbel said people should not go to church. We are the church and we only gather together not forsaking the assembly of ourselves (as church). I think it is wrong for you say out-rightly that the video or Frosbel meant to stop Christians from going to church.

Just my little observation though

Get the true meaning of Church from these articles.

Question: "What is the difference between the universal church and local church?"

Answer: To understand the difference between the local church and the universal church, one must get a basic definition of each. The local church is a group of believers in Jesus Christ who meet in some particular location on a regular basis. The universal church is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ worldwide. The term church comes from at least 2 words. One of the words has to do with the meeting together or “assembly” (1 Thessalonians 2:14; 2 Thessalonians 1:1). This word is one that pertains to the work of God in saving and sanctifying believers as “called-out ones.” When the word church is found in the English Bible, the word used is this one. The second word is one that speaks of ownership and literally means “belonging to the Lord.” This is the word that is transliterated into the actual word church. This Greek word is only used twice in the New Testament and is never used directly naming the church (1 Corinthians 11:20; Revelation 1:10).

A local church is normally defined as a local assembly of all who profess faith and allegiance to Christ. Most often the Greek word ekklesia is used in reference to the local assembly (1 Thessalonians 1:1; 1 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 11:8 ). There is not just one specified local church in any one area necessarily. There are many local churches in larger cities.

The universal church is the name given to the church worldwide. In this case the idea of the church is not so much in the assembly itself but rather in those constituting it. The church is the church even when it is not holding an official meeting. In Acts 8:3, one can see that the church is the church even when its members are at home. When examining the actual text of Acts 9:31, one can observe that the King James rendering of the word churches should actually be the singular church, which describes the universal church not just the local churches. Some may try to describe the universal church as the invisible church. Be careful not to do this. The universal church is never described in scripture as invisible, and surely it was not meant to be invisible. Here are more verses that talk about the universal church: 1 Corinthians 12:28; 15:9; Matthew 16:18; Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18.

http://www.gotquestions.org/universal-local-church.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html

Enigma: It is all well and good to say the church should have 'structure'; but it is pitiful to be flippant and dismissive of Jesus' words that where two or three are gathered in His name there He is in their midst.

For example, I see a reference to "the local church"? OK then: which is 'the local church' in Yaba or Ikeja or Ikoyi? And what is a "local assembly"?

When two or three gather together, why is that not a "local assembly"?

Do the different denominations and abominations holding different church services at the same time on the same street even sometimes in different parts of the same building ------ more importantly never coming together and worse even competing with one another --- amount to a "local church"?

Digression:

Meanwhile @frosbel

Here on this thread you are saying some people are in a cult; whereas only a few hours earlier you had yourself said that the Pentecostal movement attacks those opposed to them by calling them cults. https://www.nairaland.com/1171911/it-true-man-christ-not/5#14022724

Interesting.

I hope these links addressess your objections.

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/universal-local-church.html

Joagbaje:

The church has structure. Spiritually and in leadership. Two or three people gathering does not constitute a local assembly. Family prayer is still christian fellowship, colleague meeting at lunch hour in the office is still christian fellowship but it doesn't constitute a local church.

Good point. God isn't a God of confusion but of orderliness and decency. The "two and three gathering" can also be in houses which is usually called house churches, the likes that occur in underground churches. These are also local churches.

"Let all things be done decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40).

frosbel:

I would not like to generalize the Pentecostal movement, maybe I used the word too loosely. There are still many good ministries out there that I listen to , learn from , and would want to fellowship with.

However, I have had some pretty bad experiences in some churches that like to call others cults, when in fact they possess more of the attributes and character of a cult.

2 churches I attended for instance , who are experts in calling others cults , had the following traits :

- They had a supreme leader who they looked up to, emulated and copied.
- You contest one doctrine and you cannot be a worker , your membership will also be suspect
- You leave the church and you lose all your friends and brethren on advice from church leadership
- They have a dress code which members are expected to adhere to
- To act and think like a Berean makes you a dangerous person
- They sever ties between you and your blood relatives
- Insist on not taking medicine in some cases , which has caused the death of many members ( yet they call JW a cult for refusing blood transfusion )

Many more to list, let me end here.


For cults who exhibit these traits to call other 'churches' cults , is the epitome of hypocrisy and Phariseeism .

The fact that you had problems with the churches you attended does not give you the right to instigate others to oppose this injunction:

"Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation" (Hebrews 13:7).

OLAADEGBU:

The fact that you had problems with the churches you attended does not give you the right to instigate others to oppose this injunction:

"Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation" (Hebrews 13:7).

Another misrepresentation of my position, but then again what is new with you these days . I know how painful it is when former members leave your church, since you think you have the edge when it comes to truth.



Funny enough, most of my experiences emanated from your cult.

Decently And In Order

"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).

Our text is the theme verse of the Book of 1 Timothy. Paul's primary burden in this epistle is to set in order for Timothy the proper management of the church ministry. The book can be broken into three parts. The church's message is given in the first chapter which talks of sound doctrine, declaring the gospel message and the defense of the faith. The church's members are examined in the second and third chapters, including qualifications of the pastors and deacons. Lastly, the church ministry is patterned in the final chapters. "Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine" (1 Timothy 4:13).

Why is such detail given to laying out the proper structure of the local church? Some in the early church had promoted a disordered and completely unstructured worship methodology. "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying" (1 Corinthians 14:26). In verse 33 Paul declares, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

Still today some proclaim that the church is an organism and therefore should not emphasise organisation. But if an organism becomes internally disorganised, it dies. If the train has ultimate freedom to run off the track, it is destroyed. Often what is called "freedom of the Spirit" becomes license for immaturity and carnality. The command given to the Corinthian church is worthy of our consideration: "Let all things be done decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40). DW

For more . . . .

What the heretics on this thread prays for is the death of this "organism"

"I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house" Acts 20:20

"Aquila and Prisca greet you heartily in the Lord, with the church that is in their house ." 1 Cor. 16:19

15 Please give my greetings to our Christian brothers and sisters* at Laodicea, and to Nympha and those who meet in her house .- Colossians 4:15

and to our sister Apphia and to Archippus, a fellow soldier of the cross. I am also writing to the church that meets in your house - Philemon 2

40 Paul and Silas then returned to the home of Lydia, where they met with the believers and encouraged them once more before leaving town - Acts 16:40

5 Please give my greetings to the church that meets in their home. Greet my dear friend Epenetus. He was the very first person to become a Christian in the province of Asia - Romans 16:5


Appears Paul disagrees with you Ola

OLAADEGBU:

There is no hiding from the fact that you detest submission to leadership in all its ramifications as this article depicts:



Spiritual rebels will always expose themselves for what they are.

"I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house" Acts 20:20

"Aquila and Prisca greet you heartily in the Lord, with the church that is in their house ." 1 Cor. 16:19

15 Please give my greetings to our Christian brothers and sisters* at Laodicea, and to Nympha and those who meet in her house .- Colossians 4:15

and to our sister Apphia and to Archippus, a fellow soldier of the cross. I am also writing to the church that meets in your house - Philemon 2

40 Paul and Silas then returned to the home of Lydia, where they met with the believers and encouraged them once more before leaving town - Acts 16:40

5 Please give my greetings to the church that meets in their home. Greet my dear friend Epenetus. He was the very first person to become a Christian in the province of Asia - Romans 16:5


Appears Paul disagrees with you Ola

Case closed!!

frosbel: Case closed!!

You wished.

frosbel: "I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house" Acts 20:20

"Aquila and Prisca greet you heartily in the Lord, with the church that is in their house ." 1 Cor. 16:19

15 Please give my greetings to our Christian brothers and sisters* at Laodicea, and to Nympha and those who meet in her house .- Colossians 4:15

and to our sister Apphia and to Archippus, a fellow soldier of the cross. I am also writing to the church that meets in your house - Philemon 2

40 Paul and Silas then returned to the home of Lydia, where they met with the believers and encouraged them once more before leaving town - Acts 16:40

5 Please give my greetings to the church that meets in their home. Greet my dear friend Epenetus. He was the very first person to become a Christian in the province of Asia - Romans 16:5

Appears Paul disagrees with you Ola

I don't see contradictions. People had church services in their houses as venues . Acuila and Priscilla were both pastors who had a church in their house . That's a local assembly. People had services in different places. In the church globally and locally there is structure of spiritual leadership . The pastoral office feed ,corrects and disciplines. But your idea of 2 or 3 friends coming together defeat s the church structure of discipline and leadership and submission to authority.

frosbel:

Another misrepresentation of my position, but then again what is new with you these days . I know how painful it is when former members leave your church, since you think you have the edge when it comes to truth.



Funny enough, most of my experiences emanated from your cult.

There is no hiding from the fact that you detest submission to leadership in all its ramifications as this article depicts:

Those Who Rule Over You

"Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation" (Hebrews 13:7).

The very idea that the church has "rulers" is resisted by many modern Christians, especially those in "autonomous" churches with "congregational" systems of governance. But in the last chapter of Hebrews, there are three commands given to Christian church members in relation to "them which have the rule over you." Christ, the Head of the church, has assured that each true local church will have God-called pastors, elders, or other "rulers" to lead the church in its divinely ordained ministry.

Whatever these leaders are called, or however they are appointed, if they have indeed "spoken unto you the Word of God," then the members of the church are commanded to "remember them" and their "faith follow."

Secondly, they are commanded to "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account" (Hebrews 13:17). Thirdly, they are to "Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints" (Hebrews 13:24) with the word "salute" meaning literally "embrace" in the sense of glad greetings and fellowship.

The position of "ruler" in a church is not that of a dictator. The Greek word for "have the rule over" means more exactly, "lead." God-ordained leaders are not "lords over God’s heritage," but "examples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:3). They must "give account" (1 Peter 4:5) to God for their faithfulness and shall receive "greater condemnation" if they misuse their authority (James 3:1). They need—and deserve—to have us remember them in prayer, embrace them in fellowship, submit to their leading, and follow their faith as long as they truly proclaim and follow the word of God themselves. HMM

For more . . . .

Spiritual rebels will always expose themselves for what they are.