One of the greatest prophesies foretold in the OT was that the messiah would be a descendant of David.This prophesy was fulfilled as romans 1:3 tells us "he is a descendant of David according to the flesh"

Where did Jesus get this flesh from?

That's the problem.. The genealogy in Matthew and mark go back from Jacob (albeit conflicting). But we all "know" that Jacob isn't the "father" of Jesus. Its easy to put one and two together to figure out that the authors of the bible tried so hard to make sense of what they were writing but failed miserably. Mistake after mistake, confusion after confusion. quite tiring

@op, why are you asking this question? Do you have an already prepared answer but just waiting for comments?
*if it is just a question, then I have no answer because no matter how you look at it, Jesus was not a physical descendant of David.
* if you already have the answer, can you just spare us the trouble of back and forth debates and just tell us where he got the flesh

chukwudi44: One of the greatest prophesies foretold in the OT was that the messiah would be a descendant of David.This prophesy was fulfilled as romans 1:3 tells us "he is a descendant of David according to the flesh"

Where did Jesus get this flesh from?

Which flesh are you reffering to?
was the First Adams flesh gotten from any descendant? If not why would the Last Adams(Christ)be from Davids lineage?
Stop quoting scriptures out of context.

Prophecy: Descendant of David
"Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD,
"That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth."
Jeremiah 23:5 (NKJ)

The LORD has sworn in truth to David;
He will not turn from it:
"I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body . . ."
Psalm 132:11 (NKJ)

Isaiah 11 (GNT)

One verse per line

1⁠ The royal line of David is like a tree that has been cut down; but just as new branches sprout from a stump, so a new king will arise from among David's descendants. 2⁠ The spirit of the Lord will give him wisdom and the knowledge and skill to rule his people. He will know the Lord's will and honor him, 3⁠ and find pleasure in obeying him. He will not judge by appearance or hearsay; 4⁠ he will judge the poor fairly and defend the rights of the helpless. At his command the people will be punished, and evil persons will die. 5⁠ He will rule his people with justice and integrity. 6⁠ Wolves and sheep will live together in peace, and leopards will lie down with young goats. Calves and lion cubs will feed together, and little children will take care of them. 7⁠ Cows and bears will eat together, and their calves and cubs will lie down in peace. Lions will eat straw as cattle do. 8⁠ Even a baby will not be harmed if it plays near a poisonous snake. 9⁠ On Zion, God's sacred hill, there will be nothing harmful or evil. The land will be as full of knowledge of the Lord as the seas are full of water. 10⁠ A day is coming when the new king from the royal line of David will be a symbol to the nations. They will gather in his royal city and give him honor. 11⁠ When that day comes, the Lord will once again use his power and bring back home those of his people who are left in Assyria and Egypt, in the lands of Pathros, Ethiopia, Elam, Babylonia, and Hamath, and in the coastlands and on the islands of the sea. 12⁠ The Lord will raise a signal flag to show the nations that he is gathering together again the scattered people of Israel and Judah and bringing them back from the four corners of the earth. 13⁠ The kingdom of Israel will not be jealous of Judah any more, and Judah will not be the enemy of Israel. 14⁠ Together they will attack the Philistines on the west and plunder the people who live to the east. They will conquer the people of Edom and Moab, and the people of Ammon will obey them. 15⁠ The Lord will dry up the Gulf of Suez, and he will bring a hot wind to dry up the Euphrates, leaving only seven tiny streams, so that anyone can walk across. 16⁠ There will be a highway out of Assyria for those of his people Israel who have survived there, just as there was for their ancestors when they left Egypt.

i.chuka:

Which flesh are you reffering to?
was the First Adams flesh gotten from any descendant? If not why would the Last Adams(Christ)be from Davids lineage?
Stop quoting scriptures out of context.

Did God not make a promise to David?How was this prophesy fulfilled?why don't you quote the right scripture?

chukwudi44: One of the greatest prophesies foretold in the OT was that the messiah would be a descendant of David.This prophesy was fulfilled as romans 1:3 tells us "he is a descendant of David according to the flesh"

Where did Jesus get this flesh from?

FROM JOSEPH HIS FATHER.

obadiah777: FROM JOSEPH HIS FATHER.

Do you mind explaining to me how Joseph fathered Jesus?

chukwudi44:

Do you mind explaining to me how Joseph fathered Jesus?

NOT A PROBLEM. 4 POINTS

1- THE USE OF WORDS MUTATE OVER TIME. WHEN THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN, THE WORD 'VIRGIN' MEANT 'UNWED'. VIRGIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 'SEX'

2-THE RELIGION CHRISTIANITY IS A MELDING OF ALL THE PHILOSOPHIES OF THE EMPIRES THAT HAVE CONTROLLED THE WORLD. THE RELIGION CHRISTIANITY HAS ITS ROOTS IN THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE. IN THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE THE KING NIMROD DIED. AND MONTHS AFTER HE DIED HIS WIFE SEMIRAMIS BECAME PREGNANT. SHE WAS SCARED TO LET PEOPLE KNOW SHE HAD BE WHORING AROUND SO SHE TOLD THE PEOPLE SHE HAD IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. THIS IS WHERE THE STORY OF MARYS IMMACULATE CONCEPTION CAME FROM. FROM THE STORY OF NIMROD ( JOSEPH ), SEMIRAMIS ( MARY ) AND TAMMUZ ( JESUS )

3-IF YOU STUDY THE ROMANS 1 VS 3 VERSE IT SAYS BY THE SEED OF KING DAVID. WELL SEED MEANS SPE-RM. ONLY THE MAN PRODUCES THIS. AND A PERSONS PEDIGREE IS BY THE HOUSE OF HIS FATHER BECAUSE OF THIS ( NUMBERS 1 VS 18 ). SO THE SEED HAD TO COME FROM JOSEPH BECAUSE THE SEED IS PASSED DOWN THROUGH MEN AND THE SEED IS WHAT DETERMINES THE PEDIGREE ( NUMBERS 1 VS 18 ). MARY IS A WOMAN SO SHE HAS NO SEED TO PASS DOWN. WOMENS WOMB ARE LIKE INCUBATORS. THEY ARE THERE TO NOURISH. THATS ALL.

obadiah777: NOT A PROBLEM. 4 POINTS

1- THE USE OF WORDS MUTATE OVER TIME. WHEN THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN, THE WORD 'VIRGIN' MEANT 'UNWED'. VIRGIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 'SEX'

2-THE RELIGION CHRISTIANITY IS A MELDING OF ALL THE PHILOSOPHIES OF THE EMPIRES THAT HAVE CONTROLLED THE WORLD. THE RELIGION CHRISTIANITY HAS ITS ROOTS IN THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE. IN THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE THE KING NIMROD DIED. AND MONTHS AFTER HE DIED HIS WIFE SEMIRAMIS BECAME PREGNANT. SHE WAS SCARED TO LET PEOPLE KNOW SHE HAD BE WHORING AROUND SO SHE TOLD THE PEOPLE SHE HAD IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. THIS IS WHERE THE STORY OF MARYS IMMACULATE CONCEPTION CAME FROM. FROM THE STORY OF NIMROD ( JOSEPH ), SEMIRAMIS ( MARY ) AND TAMMUZ ( JESUS )

3-IF YOU STUDY THE ROMANS 1 VS 3 VERSE IT SAYS BY THE SEED OF KING DAVID. WELL SEED MEANS SPE-RM. ONLY THE MAN PRODUCES THIS. AND A PERSONS PEDIGREE IS BY THE HOUSE OF HIS FATHER BECAUSE OF THIS ( NUMBERS 1 VS 18 ). SO THE SEED HAD TO COME FROM JOSEPH BECAUSE THE SEED IS PASSED DOWN THROUGH MEN AND THE SEED IS WHAT DETERMINES THE PEDIGREE ( NUMBERS 1 VS 18 ). MARY IS A WOMAN SO SHE HAS NO SEED TO PASS DOWN. WOMENS WOMB ARE LIKE INCUBATORS. THEY ARE THERE TO NOURISH. THATS ALL.

Sorry sir this thread is for those who believe in the virginal birth of Jesus.Tanx for your contribution.

chukwudi44:

Sorry sir this thread is for those who believe in the virginal birth of Jesus.Tanx for your contribution.

DO YOU HAVE COMPREHENSION PROBLEMS ? I JUST SHOWED YOU THE VIRGINAL BIRTH. DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ ?

obadiah777: DO YOU HAVE COMPREHENSION PROBLEMS ? I JUST SHOWED YOU THE VIRGINAL BIRTH. DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ ?

So where is this talk about Joseph's sperm comming from?

chukwudi44:

So where is this talk about Joseph's sperm comming from?

OH YOU MEAN VIRGIN-AL NOT VAG-INAL. OK I SEE WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM. YOU WANT TO PARTAKE OF THAT DOCTRINE OF DEMONS * DUSTS FEET OFF THREAD *

Jesus came from the lineage of David through Mary and Joseph.

" In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:26

frosbel: Jesus came from the lineage of David through Mary and Joseph.

" In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:26

How is Jesus related to Joseph?

chukwudi44:

How is Jesus related to Joseph?

I personally believe, subject to further analysis , that Jesus descended by blood from Mary and indirectly through Joseph , who by virtue of his engagement to Mary was of one flesh with her.

@ OP and topic,

Simple answer.... But will require an Apostolic tithe and offering laid at the Apostle Goshen360's feet to get an answer...

frosbel:


I personally believe, subject to further analysis , that Jesus descended by blood from Mary and indirectly through Joseph , who by virtue of his engagement to Mary was of one flesh with her.

Joseph actually had nothing to do with incarnation and thus could not really be the link.It will only be possible if Mary was also descended from David

obadiah777: NOT A PROBLEM. 4 POINTS

1- THE USE OF WORDS MUTATE OVER TIME. WHEN THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN, THE WORD 'VIRGIN' MEANT 'UNWED'. VIRGIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 'SEX'

2-THE RELIGION CHRISTIANITY IS A MELDING OF ALL THE PHILOSOPHIES OF THE EMPIRES THAT HAVE CONTROLLED THE WORLD. THE RELIGION CHRISTIANITY HAS ITS ROOTS IN THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE. IN THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE THE KING NIMROD DIED. AND MONTHS AFTER HE DIED HIS WIFE SEMIRAMIS BECAME PREGNANT. SHE WAS SCARED TO LET PEOPLE KNOW SHE HAD BE WHORING AROUND SO SHE TOLD THE PEOPLE SHE HAD IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. THIS IS WHERE THE STORY OF MARYS IMMACULATE CONCEPTION CAME FROM. FROM THE STORY OF NIMROD ( JOSEPH ), SEMIRAMIS ( MARY ) AND TAMMUZ ( JESUS )

3-IF YOU STUDY THE ROMANS 1 VS 3 VERSE IT SAYS BY THE SEED OF KING DAVID. WELL SEED MEANS SPE-RM. ONLY THE MAN PRODUCES THIS. AND A PERSONS PEDIGREE IS BY THE HOUSE OF HIS FATHER BECAUSE OF THIS ( NUMBERS 1 VS 18 ). SO THE SEED HAD TO COME FROM JOSEPH BECAUSE THE SEED IS PASSED DOWN THROUGH MEN AND THE SEED IS WHAT DETERMINES THE PEDIGREE ( NUMBERS 1 VS 18 ). MARY IS A WOMAN SO SHE HAS NO SEED TO PASS DOWN. WOMENS WOMB ARE LIKE INCUBATORS. THEY ARE THERE TO NOURISH. THATS ALL.

Obadiah777,

This is getting out of hand with you and this is total complete FALSEHOOD on your ways in handling God's word. You bastardize God's word with your FALSE INTERPRETATION. Repent of your ways and STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE WITH FALSE INTERPRETATION. If you can't handle the word of truth, kindly leave it alone. God is NEVER seeking your help to interpret his word.

chukwudi44:
Joseph actually had nothing to do with incarnation and thus could not really be the link.It will only be possible if Mary was also descended from David

YES! Mary was a descendant from David....I will show you line-by-line and precept upon precept.

Goshen360:

Obadiah777,

This is getting out of hand with you and this is total complete FALSEHOOD on your ways in handling God's word. You bastardize God's word with your FALSE INTERPRETATION. Repent of your ways and STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE WITH FALSE INTERPRETATION. If you can't handle the word of truth, kindly leave it alone. God is NEVER seeking your help to interpret his word.

LMAO YOU DONT WANT ME TO START ON YOU TODAY BRAH GOSHEN. WHEN I RIP YOU A NEW ONE PEOPLE WILL START CALLING ME A BULLY. ABEG PARK FOR CORNER MAKE I PASS LOL

chukwudi44:

Did God not make a promise to David?How was this prophesy fulfilled?why don't you quote the right scripture?

Dude,
I know where you are heading and its false.
Mark2:22..James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.(His Flesh was new,same as His Spirit)His Flesh never came from Davids lineage.
He came in the Likeness of human form..Phlns2:7,Romns8:3.
He's the New creation.the descendant of David was part of the Old creation.and the two can never mix..Mk2:22.

@ chukwudi44,

First, you must understand the "according to the flesh" to be "according to human nature or family descendant or genealogy or natural birth or in respect to humanity" . The word 'flesh' in Romans 1:3 (every word or same word have different meaning depending on context as used. e.g, seed can seed different things in context - the context will clarify as used) is the Greek word, sarx and in that context, it means of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship, born of natural generation.

The word 'made' is the Greek word ginomai and means to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

The word 'seed' in this context is the Greek word sperma and means family, tribe, posterity that found its Root Word\Etymology in the Greek, speirō meaning the idea of extending.

Hence, Romans 1:3 can translate thus in KJV:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was come into existence, begin to be, receive being of the family, tribe, posterity of David according to the natural or physical origin, generation or relationship, born of natural generation.

Therefore, the following translations AGREE to semantic and Root Word\Etymology of KJV of Roman 1:3

New Living Translation (©2007)
The Good News is about his Son. In his earthly life he was born into King David's family line,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
This Good News is about his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. In his human nature he was a descendant of David.

Expanded Bible (EXB)
The Good News is about God’s Son. ·As a man [or With reference to his earthly life;  According to the flesh], he was born ·from the family [a descendant;  of the seed] of David [2 Sam. 7:11–14].

If you understand this, then I can proceed to showing you that it wasn't the seed of Joseph that produced Christ as some false teachers will claim but Mary was a descendant of King David and Jesus was of the seed of the woman, in this case, "A virgin shall conceive and shall bring forth...." Isaiah 7:14.

Goshen360:

Obadiah777,

This is getting out of hand with you and this is total complete FALSEHOOD on your ways in handling God's word. You bastardize God's word with your FALSE INTERPRETATION. Repent of your ways and STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE WITH FALSE INTERPRETATION. If you can't handle the word of truth, kindly leave it alone. God is NEVER seeking your help to interpret his word.

I have to agree with you , some people now take God for a joke and misuse both his word and twist his purpose for mankind. It used to be funny once upon a time , but no more.

May God have mercy on them.

^ Brother Frosbel, Please, I beg of you, we have to keep an eye on Obadiah777; he's been saying some terrible things in the recent from\about scriptures. HIS MOUTH MUST BE STOPPED AND HE MUST BE EXPOSED FOR HIS FALSEHOOD!....and I'm really really serious about this. It's not a funny issue please; the integrity of God's word MUST be protected and preserved.

frosbel:

I have to agree with you , some people now take God for a joke and misuse both his word and twist his purpose for mankind. It used to be funny once upon a time , but no more.

May God have mercy on them.

EVEN FROSBEL IS TALKING ? MR JESUS IS A WHITE MAN AND I WORSHIP A WHITE JESUS. LISTEN HERE FROSBEL, THERE IS A REASON NO ONE TAKES YOU AND GOSHEN SERIOUSLY, AND THATS BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE A JOKE. YOU ALL PREACH SMOOTH THINGS AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS. AND YOU BOTH CANNOT BREAK DOWN SCRIPTURES TO SAVE YOUR LIVES.

This is not a difficult issue. Infact it was a subject that came up among the early apostles. Eusebius devotes an entire chapter (chapter 7) to addressing this issue with clarity in his book (the history of the church).

THE PROBLEM I FIND WITH GOSHEN AND FROSBEL IS THAT THEY TREAT SCRIPTURES AS IF IT DOES NOT RELATE TO REAL LIFE. AS IF IT IS SOME FAIRYTALE BOOK OF LOVE IN SOME FAR AWAY LAND AND NOT THIS WORLD WE LIVE IN. A GREAT MAN ONCE SAID IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN, IN THE BIBLE, THEN YOU ARE NOT READING IT CORRECTLY OR THE LORD HAS BLINDED YOUR EYES. THIS IS THE CASE WITH FROSBEL AND GOSHEN. THEIR SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION NEVER RELATES TO WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE GROUND LEVEL. THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORY IS ZERO AND AS SUCH THEY CANNOT CONNECT THE HISTORICAL DOTS BETWEEN REAL LIFE AND SCRIPTURES. THEY DONT KNOW THE SEQUENCE OF EMPIRES AND WHAT THE DOCTRINES ( CALLED AN EPHAH OF WCKEDNESS IN THE BOOKOF ZECHARIAH )THESE EMPIRES INTRODUCED INTO THE WORLD AND HOW THE DOCTRINES GOT CARRIED OVER FROM ONE EMPIRE TO THE NEXT. I CANT BELIEVE A MAN OF GOD PEDDLES THE FILTH THESE GUYS PEDDLE. FIRST OFF THE STORY OF THE VIRGIN BIRTH. ANYONE WHO IS A STRONG HISTORY AND BIBLE SCHOLAR KNOWS THIS IS ANCIENT BABYLONIAN DOCTRINE. YET THESE FALSE PROPHETS ( FROSBEL AND GOSHEN ) ACT STUPIFIED WHEN A REAL PROPHET BRINGS OUT TRUTHS. WELL THE TRUTH IS NEVER POPULAR WHICH IS WHY CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED ALTHOUGH IT WAS PROPHESY. THIS IS THE ORIGIN OF YOUR VIRGIN BIRTH THEORY http://ministeriomisionerodepoderenjesus..co.uk/2010/11/semiramis-priests-nimrod-tammuz-and-his.html

THESE TWO FALSE PROPHETS MAKE ENDLESS POSTS FULL OF SICKLY DOCTRINES ABOUT LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE. IF GOD WAS ALL ABOUT LOVE WHY IS THERE SO MUCH WAR IN THE WORLD ? EXODUS 15 VS 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name I IMPLORE ALL YOU WHO LISTEN TO THESE FALSE PROPHETS TO DESIST BEFORE THEY TAKE YOU DOWN THE WRONG PATH. I ORIGINALLY JUST IGNORE AND LAUGH AT THEIR DOCTRINE BUT SINCE THEY WANT TO GET CONFRONTATIONAL ITS TIME TO EXPOSE THESE FALSE PROPHETS. THE ONE CALLED FROSBEL SWEARS UP AND DOWN THAT THE LORD CAN NEVER EVER BE BLACK AND I AM PUSHING FALSE DOCTRINE BECAUSE I SAID THE LORD IS BLACK. ONCE AGAIN AS REPEATED EARLIER,LACK OF HISTORICAL KNOWLEDGE AND INABILITY TO READ THE BIBLE PROPERLY IS WHY THESE TWO FALSE PROPHETS THINKS THE LORD IS WHITE ( SELF HATRED ) . LETS LISTEN TO WHAT A MAN WHO HAS WRITTEN OVER 10 BOOKS INCLUDING TWO BIBLES IN HEBREW HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE COLOR OF OUR LORD, THE REAL JEWS AND THOSE IN ISRAEL TODAY. LETS FIND OUT WHO THE REAL PROPHETS ARE AND WHICH OF US IS PEDDLING FALSEHOOD



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9Ded9Ctx0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaumhtblhxY

AND LET ME END THE MATTER BY SAYING THESE TWO MEN ARE LAZY CHRISTIANS. THEY DONT RESEARCH. ONE OF THEM ( GOSHEN ) ONLY READS THE NEW TESTAMENT AND SAYS THE OLD TESTAMENT IS OBSOLETE. WHEN THE MEAT OF THE BIBLE IS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. THE NEW TESTAMENT IS SIMPLY LETTERS MOSTLY TO PEOPLE. ALWAYS COMES UP WITH CRAP LIKE ' YOU HAVE TO FILTER THE OLD TESTAMENT THROUGH THE NEW TESTAMENT' ? WHAT KINDA IGNORANT STATEMENT IS THAT ? SCRIPTURE SAYS I COME IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK. NOT JUST THE NEW TESTAMENT. ANYWAY I END MY RANT. PEOPLE DO NOT LET THESE MEN ( GOSHEN AND FROSBEL ) WHO PEDDLE DOCTRINE OF DEMONS SUCH AS A WHITE JESUS ( WHICH IS ACTUALLY THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST ) AND VIRGIN BIRTH ( WHICH IS THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN WORSHIP ) ANOTHER DOCTRINE OF DEMONS, DO NOT LET THESE MEN TAKE YOU DOWN THE WRONG PATH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. NARROW IS THE RIGHT PATH. THE RIGHT PATH IS NOT COMMON. CHRIST WAS RIDICULED FOR HIS DOCTRINE. ANYONE WHO HAS THE REAL DOCTRINE OF CHRIST WILL BE RIDICULED FOR IT. CHOOSE WISELY. WE ARE AT THE END, DONT LET A COUPLE OF REPROBATES LEAD YOU TO DESTRUCTION. END OF THE MATTER

This is the problem with lies. Joseph was indeed said to be the link to the "House of David" in which Jesus was born. However, the scripture tells us he did not sire Jesus through Mary - namely - that some spirit being did his work for him beforehand!

How then is Jesus "Son of David" ? ? ? ? ?

Spirits impregnating virgins, bastard child (no offence, a technicality only) out of wedlock, alleged virgin getting pregnant without being touched by a man, and such other nonsense, is what is proffered up as sensible doctrine for Christians of the 21st Century.

I have had my time: I don tire to argue: this is a doctrine that ALL Christians WOULD scoff at, were it proffered by another religion as truth.

They forget, conveniently, that the punishment for being with child without wedlock at the the time, was death - - - by stoning.

They prefer, to believe instead, that, not that the woman and the man (or possibly the writers) contrived this story to hide their shame - - - > but that a spirit being in fact came and impregnated the woman.

These are people that would look down on doctrines of similar st.upidity from other parts of the world.

Wahallahi. . . I can NEVER understand Christian st.upidity!