Goshen360: Yeah, good morning @ y'all.


2. I'm a FULL 100% New Testament teacher, believer & Christian. I have NOTHING to do with the law(s) of Moses GIVEN ONLY to the national Israel as their constitution. It doesn't apply to Christians. Romans 3:19, 2 Corinthians 3:6 & Romans 2:14. YES, it is very true that whatsoever is written is written for our learning BUT it doesn't apply to us, Christians. Therefore, when I teach we are not under the law of Moses, I'm consistent with what I teach in that regards.

Goshen360:

There's nothing like the 10 commandments being special than the rest. They are all included in the what is called the law (singular) of Moses. The Bible doesn't call any ceremonial and some dietary etc. They are whole in one altogether. The people who received them never separated them or give preference to the 10 above the law. Please, go ahead and open another thread so we can deal with that as well.

Goshen , we can separate the Law of Moses into two distinct parts for clarity in our discussion.

1. Ceremonial Laws - Dietary, circumcision, washing & cleansing , feasts, etc

2. Moral Laws - Ten Commandments, s.exual conduct, justice, restitution etc.


Can you confirm if No.2 is still relevant to Christians TODAY.

Mind you , I am not an expert on this , but willing to join you in fellowship and discuss , learn and agree to agree or agree to disagree as the case may apply

First, my brother. Like I said, it is religion and the law keepers that gave all those separations. To understand this subject, we need to first find out where in scripture were these laws categorized. Does the people who received them gave upper preference on the 10 than the others? Remember, when the law is spoken of in the New Testament, it is spoken as a whole and one, not categorized. Let's start from their first.

2. To further answer your #2 question, sexxual sins etc and the likes you found in the law of Moses and also found in the New Testament are NOT saying that because Moses said so, but is saying that in the Spirit of the New Testament not as though the law of Moses said it. The Sabbath is one of the 10, do Christians follow it? To break one is to be guilty of all. Hence, we don't do such things because it said by Moses but because our new nature is dead to sin and fulfill those instructions in the Spirit of the New Testament.

#sits down as a humble student ready to learn from the masters.

The christian is governed by a new law which actually set us free from the lam of Moses and its written in our heart thats y the bible declares "the christian can not sin". Rome 8:2 "the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

deSika:
#sits down as a humble student ready to learn from the masters.

I am not , was never and will never be a 'Master', only Jesus is the Master.

I am a student like you brother, and we are all here to learn

Umh

Some 'religious' people are actually on this thread to catch us by our words. We know them already Be careful what you say o, As for me, I will answer for myself But is gonna shut every mouth by His word!

New International Version (©2011)
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Romans 3:19

I'm yet to see a single scripture that categorize then 10 commandments as special to other scriptures. It is the law keepers that does that. If anyone here knows where the Israelites gave special preference to the 10 than the others, please show me\us and let every mouth be silenced.

The law in its entirety including the ten commandments was only given to national Israel not to the church of Christ and it was called the 'law of sin & death'. I challenge anyone to show us scriptures that the ten were special than the rest oral laws.

frosbel:

I am not , was never and will never be a 'Master', only Jesus is the Master.

I am a student like you brother, and we are all here to learn

noted

Goshen360: New International Version (©2011)
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Romans 3:19

I'm yet to see a single scripture that categorize then 10 commandments as special to other scriptures. It is the law keepers that does that. If anyone here knows where the Israelites gave special preference to the 10 than the others, please show me\us and let every mouth be silenced.

The law in its entirety including the ten commandments was only given to national Israel not to the church of Christ and it was called the 'law of sin & death'. I challenge anyone to show us scriptures that the ten were special than the rest oral laws.

Jesus Christ did not come to break the LAW , he came to fulfill the LAW.

The Law of Sin and Death is in the Letter which really means that we cannot fulfill the requirements of the LAW in the flesh, however the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus means that we can now fulfill the requirements of the LAW in the spirit and by the power of GOD.

The Letter kills but the Spirit gives life or the flesh profits nothing, again the Spirit gives life.

The LAW of GOD morally speaking , has been fulfilled in Jesus and by obeying Jesus we obey the Law automatically, any other way will not work.

God's LAWs are still valid and very nourishing to the soul/

"The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple" - Psalm 19:7

" All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal." - Psalm 119:160


If the LAW of GOD is no longer valid , does this then mean we can now :

1. have other gods before GOD
2. make unto ourselves graven images and bow before them
3. take the name of the Lord our God in vain
4. refuse to remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, though this has been fulfilled in Jesus who is our Sabbath
5. Not honour our father and thy mother
6. KILL
7. Commit adultery
8. Steal
9. Bear false witness against our neighbor
10.Covet.

the 10 commandments were like subheadings for the laws which includes all the types of laws we no. the bible says, Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, so Jesus has fulfilled all the requirements of the law and we must remb the law wasnt for the non jews. the law was never made for us.

christemmbassey: The christian is governed by a new law which actually set us free from the lam of Moses and its written in our heart thats y the bible declares "the christian can not sin". Rome 8:2 "the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

can i ask yu this bro.
how do yu explain christians who backslide
thank u

deSika:
can i ask yu this bro.
how do yu explain christians who backslide
thank u

what do u mean by backslide sir?

Goshen360: First, my brother. Like I said, it is religion and the law keepers that gave all those separations. To understand this subject, we need to first find out where in scripture were these laws categorized. Does the people who received them gave upper preference on the 10 than the others? Remember, when the law is spoken of in the New Testament, it is spoken as a whole and one, not categorized. Let's start from their first.

2. To further answer your #2 question, sexxual sins etc and the likes you found in the law of Moses and also found in the New Testament are NOT saying that because Moses said so, but is saying that in the Spirit of the New Testament not as though the law of Moses said it. The Sabbath is one of the 10, do Christians follow it? To break one is to be guilty of all. Hence, we don't do such things because it said by Moses but because our new nature is dead to sin and fulfill those instructions in the Spirit of the New Testament.

The law of moses is a shadow of the reality that is to come, it helps us to see the mind and insight into what he wants. though we are not under law we yet still know how to please God based on what he had said and accepted in the past even his judgement.

Grace means we will not face instant/capital punishment as it were under the law, however, grace or "undeserved kindness" does not means we do the things we know he(yahweh) does hate since that will mean that we have a wicked heart and abuse of the Grace.

such ^ abused of God's "undeserved kindness" extended to us judges us unfit for his kingdom.

All those ^ gives us christians insight into our walk with God.

Christianity is not lawlessnes.

May we not go beyond what is written.

truthislight:

The law of moses is a shadow of the reality that is to come, it helps us to see the mind and insight into what he wants. though we are not under law we yet still know how to please God based on what he had said and accepted in the past even his judgement.

Grace means we will not face instant/capital punishment as it were under the law, however, grace or "undeserved kindness" does not means we do the things we know he(yahweh) does hate since that will mean that we have a wicked heart and abuse of the Grace.

such ^ abused of God's "undeserved kindness" extended to us judges us unfit for his kingdom.

All those ^ gives us christians insight into our walk with God.

Christianity is not lawlessnes.

May we not go beyond what is written.

Thanks Bro, we now have grace to uphold the LAW not to break it , only this time the LAW is written on the tablets of our hearts and GOD gives us the power to obey him, if we walk after the Spirit.

Goshen360: Some 'religious' people are actually on this thread to catch us by our words. We know them already Be careful what you say o, As for me, I will answer for myself But is gonna shut every mouth by His word!

Apostle Gosh...i hope this is not mean't for me sha?

There's nothing like the 10 commandments being special than the rest. They are all included in the what is called the law (singular) of Moses. The Bible doesn't call any ceremonial and some dietary etc. They are whole in one altogether. The people who received them never separated them or give preference to the 10 above the law. Please, go ahead and open another thread so we can deal with that as well.

The reformed teaching is that the law was given in three parts:

The moral law, which God gave first to Adam, and later to Moses on Sinai (the Ten Commandments).

Ceremonial laws, given to the people of Israel, prefiguring Christ.

Judicial laws, given to the State of Israel.

The moral law is eternal, binding Adam, the first man, as well as any Christian today.

Ceremonial laws were abolished in the New Testament.

Judicial laws only concerned the State of Israel.

As noted, the moral law was delivered to Moses as the Ten Commandments. Thus the Ten Commandments apply to Christians today as such. Of other laws in the OT, the moral component applies.

In as much as you (bro Goshen) doesn't acknoledge the moral law (10 commandments) truth is is if you break any single commandment amongst the 10, you would be regarded as a sinner in the sight of God.

Take a look as Exodus 20:3-18 and tell me if its no longer applicable in our generation.

meetgaby:


what do u mean by backslide sir?

@deSika pls clear the above so that i can reply, God bless.

meetgaby:


what do u mean by backslide sir?

ntr.v. back·slid (-sl d ), back·slid·ing, back·slides. To revert to sin or wrongdoing,
especially in religious practice. back slid er n.backslide[ˈbækˌslaɪd]... eg to enter into another religion

CrazyMan:
The reformed teaching is that the law was given in three parts:

The moral law, which God gave first to Adam, and later to Moses on Sinai (the Ten Commandments).

Ceremonial laws, given to the people of Israel, prefiguring Christ.

Judicial laws, given to the State of Israel.

The moral law is eternal, binding Adam, the first man, as well as any Christian today.

Ceremonial laws were abolished in the New Testament.

Judicial laws only concerned the State of Israel.

As noted, the moral law was delivered to Moses as the Ten Commandments. Thus the Ten Commandments apply to Christians today as such. Of other laws in the OT, the moral component applies.

In as much as you (bro Goshen) doesn't acknoledge the moral law (10 commandments) truth is is if you break any single commandment amongst the 10, you would be regarded as a sinner in the sight of God.

Take a look as Exodus 20:3-18 and tell me if its no longer applicable in our generation.

DO U UNDASTAND GRACE? The christian has nothing to do with the LAW OF MOSES. Pls study Galatians3.

deSika:
ntr.v. back·slid (-sl d ), back·slid·ing, back·slides. To revert to sin or wrongdoing,
especially in religious practice. back slid er n.backslide[ˈbækˌslaɪd]... eg to enter into another religion

If u know who a christian is, u will agree that a christian can not backslide especially going by ur 2nd definition.

frosbel:

Jesus Christ did not come to break the LAW , he came to fulfill the LAW.

^ To fulfill he had to first break and tell the religious leaders of his days the end is coming to or has come to the era of Moses because the law was given UNTIL faith will come and NOW that faith had come, NO LONGER NEED FOR THE LAW...of Moses.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed. Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. Galatians 3:23-25.

If Christ had fulfilled the law of Moses then, why are Christians still trying to keep it in the first place it wasn't given or written to us. Many people teach that Christ came to show the true intent of the law. That's not true! He came to fulfill it and by doing that, it was abolished!

frosbel:


Jesus Christ did not come to break the LAW , he came to fulfill the LAW.

The Law of Sin and Death is in the Letter which really means that we cannot fulfill the requirements of the LAW in the flesh, however the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus means that we can now fulfill the requirements of the LAW in the spirit and by the power of GOD.

What exactly is the 'law of sin & death'? It is the law of Moses itself including the 10 commandments. I will show you that in a moment. What exactly is the 'law of the Spirit of life'? It is the new laws in Christ not according to that of Moses and the fountain of this law of Spirit of life in Christ is LOVE.....on love hangs all the laws and the prophets.

frosbel:

The Letter kills but the Spirit gives life or the flesh profits nothing, again the Spirit gives life.

When you say the 'letter' kills, that letter there is NOT what is written down for us as scripture to study the text. Many people misunderstands this concept and thinks it is referring to the text of the scriptures. NO, that 'letter' itself is the whole law of Moses that kills, that is results to death for people then.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

New Living Translation (©2007)
He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

KJV calls it letter, NLT calls it written laws\old written covenant. That is what the 'letter' means in context if you read the surrounding verses. It is the ten commandments inclusive. How is that so, you remember, when Moses got the law the first time, and the people where already into idolatry before he came back, thousands of people died by that when he broke it on them.

frosbel:

The LAW of GOD morally speaking , has been fulfilled in Jesus and by obeying Jesus we obey the Law automatically, any other way will not work. God's LAWs are still valid and very nourishing to the soul/

"The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple" - Psalm 19:7

" All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal." - Psalm 119:160


If the LAW of GOD is no longer valid , does this then mean we can now :

1. have other gods before GOD
2. make unto ourselves graven images and bow before them
3. take the name of the Lord our God in vain
4. refuse to remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, though this has been fulfilled in Jesus who is our Sabbath
5. Not honour our father and thy mother
6. KILL
7. Commit adultery
8. Steal
9. Bear false witness against our neighbor
10.Covet.

I do not say we are not under the law or be lawless but we are not under subject to the law OF MOSES. All the laws listed up there are NO LONGER LAWS UNTO US AS CHRISTIANS BUT THEY ARE THINGS WE DON'T DO IN THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS THAT FLOWS FROM THE FOUNTAIN OF LOVE.....remember, on love hangs ALL the law and the prophets and love is the fulfillment of the law. We don't carry on with the spirit of Moses, as in DOs & DON'T but in the Spirit of life in Christ that is grounded in love. If you love God & your neighbour, why will you bear false witness? steal his or her properties, commit adultery, kill etc.

Besides, Sabbath is one of the 10, do you or Christians keep it? All those laws listed are given to us as the in the Spirit of life in Christ NOT as in the Spirit of Moses to Israel. You will also find most of those things in the New testament but many others 613 laws, excluding the 10 are not found no where in the New Testament. Why, we're not bound to keep the law of Moses.

Bidam:

Apostle Gosh...i hope this is not mean't for me sha?

No my brother, trust me, it's NOT for you. I'm beginning to see some attack on my personal character that people treating subjects of discussion. Honestly, it's NOT for you my brother. I will call your name when I meant to talk to you, you know me now. You can correct me and I can also correct you but when some hypocrites hide under many I.Ds to perpetrate evil as Christians and they think they are destroying other, I can spot them by all means.

CrazyMan:
The reformed teaching is that the law was given in three parts:

The moral law, which God gave first to Adam, and later to Moses on Sinai (the Ten Commandments).

Ceremonial laws, given to the people of Israel, prefiguring Christ.

Judicial laws, given to the State of Israel.

The moral law is eternal, binding Adam, the first man, as well as any Christian today.

Ceremonial laws were abolished in the New Testament.

Judicial laws only concerned the State of Israel.

As noted, the moral law was delivered to Moses as the Ten Commandments. Thus the Ten Commandments apply to Christians today as such. Of other laws in the OT, the moral component applies.

In as much as you (bro Goshen) doesn't acknoledge the moral law (10 commandments) truth is is if you break any single commandment amongst the 10, you would be regarded as a sinner in the sight of God.

Take a look as Exodus 20:3-18 and tell me if its no longer applicable in our generation.

The Sabbath is among the 10, do you keep it? Breaking one is guilt of the rest.

2. There's nothing like moral, ceremonial, Judicial etc being categorized. If you have any where the bible did all these categorizing, kindly show us. The law was given to Moses as a WHOLE and ONE UNIT. The people that accepted it never specialized one from the other.

Yes, you can find what is written in the law of Moses as part of what is instructed in the New Testament, it not for us in the spirit of the law of Moses BUT from the fountain of love. When the scriptures says, the law is abolished, it didn't specified the categories that some specifies.

christemmbassey: DO U UNDASTAND GRACE? The christian has nothing to do with the LAW OF MOSES. Pls study Galatians3.

What has the moral laws handed down by God himself got to do with the law of moses?

If the LAW of GOD is no longer valid , does this then mean we can now :

1. have other gods before GOD
2. make unto ourselves graven images and bow before them
3. take the name of the Lord our God in vain
4. refuse to remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, though this has been fulfilled in Jesus who is our Sabbath
5. Not honour our father and thy mother
6. KILL
7. Commit adultery
8. Steal
9. Bear false witness against our neighbor
10.Covet.

Quoted from frosbel post...

The question is also directed at you...

^ ^ You people need to understand what I'm saying. How do you and frosbel claim Christ ONLY fulfilled the Sabbath and left the rest 9 unfilfilled? That's illogical to say. What I'm saying is, Christ fulfilled ALL & EVERYTHING and re-instructed to us in the Spirit of the New Testament NOT as DOs and DON'T as it was given to Moses.

Goshen360: The Sabbath is among the 10, do you keep it? Breaking one is guilt of the rest.

2. There's nothing like moral, ceremonial, Judicial etc being categorized. If you have any where the bible did all these categorizing, kindly show us. The law was given to Moses as a WHOLE and ONE UNIT. The people that accepted it never specialized one from the other.

Yes, you can find what is written in the law of Moses as part of what is instructed in the New Testament, it not for us in the spirit of the law of Moses BUT from the fountain of love. When the scriptures says, the law is abolished, it didn't specified the categories that some specifies.

I have low batter right now I would treat your questions accordingly later in the day...

CrazyMan:
What has the moral laws handed down by God himself got to do with the law of moses?



Quoted from frosbel post...

The question is also directed at you...

You want to know the LAW OF GOD to christians? Ok, bro Goshen pls can u give us 1john 3:22-23, cos Am on phone tnx

christemmbassey: If u know who a christian is, u will agree that a christian can not backslide especially going by ur 2nd definition.

thats wt i want u to explain. i no people wu were christians but are now nominal.

Goshen360:

No my brother, trust me, it's NOT for you. I'm beginning to see some attack on my personal character that people treating subjects of discussion. Honestly, it's NOT for you my brother. I will call your name when I meant to talk to you, you know me now. You can correct me and I can also correct you but when some hypocrites hide under many I.Ds to perpetrate evil as Christians and they think they are destroying other, I can spot them by all means.

Umh

deSika: thats wt i want u to explain. i no people wu were christians but are now nominal.

Sorry Sir, they were no christians but church goers or what we call churchians. Pls if i may ask, who is a 'christian' ?

Goshen360: New International Version (©2011)
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Romans 3:19

I'm yet to see a single scripture that categorize then 10 commandments as special to other scriptures. It is the law keepers that does that. If anyone here knows where the Israelites gave special preference to the 10 than the others, please show me\us and let every mouth be silenced.

The law in its entirety including the ten commandments was only given to national Israel not to the church of Christ and it was called the 'law of sin & death'. I challenge anyone to show us scriptures that the ten were special than the rest oral laws.

actually the whole sanai covenant is null and void, the written law is part of that covenant. Those "mosaic laws" are allow when they agree with the principles of the new testament.