Mallam Shehu Sani is president, Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria (CRCN). In retrospect, Sani, a peace and rights advocate led former President Olusegun Obasanjo to the Boko Haram enclave in Maiduguri in September 2011, an epochal visit that served as a launching pad in subsequent efforts to practically broker truce. Speaking in this interview with Aza Msue in Kaduna over the proposed Federal Government amnesty to Boko Haram, Sani said only a freelance journalist, Mallam Ahmed Salkida, who has constantly had interviews with Boko Haram leaders, will be able to mediate and bring about true amnesty. According to him, big names like ‘security chiefs’ and ‘the Sultan’, listed as potential arbitrators will not solve the insurgency. His submissions on the amnesty saga are in their entirety, illuminating. Excerpts:

What is your take on the recent Federal Government’s proposed amnesty for Boko Haram?

Well, amnesty is one of the many proposals that have been voiced by Nigerians as a way out of this insurgence and violence; but it is not a magic formula. It is not going to lead to the end of the insurgence, neither is it going to end the violence. That President Jonathan Goodluck has announced amnesty and has constituted a committee does not mean that people will take train from Yobe and Borno states to Eagles Square in Abuja waiting for amnesty.

Secondly, there are many categories of persons who want this amnesty; there are those who want amnesty because they want peace, there are those who want amnesty because they want to save their necks from the insurgence, there are those who want it because they intend to milk this country dry from the billions of money that will be given out for the programme and there are those who want it because it is the way out but they do not know how possible. And you cannot have amnesty and the next day you have all the guns and bombs submitted. What I have seen about this proposed amnesty is an attempt to scam Nigeria and raise false hope; those who think amnesty is all about bringing peace the next day are simply wasting their time and they are elements who simply want to profit from amnesty. With an amnesty the government will be in the position to pump billions of naira in the names of unemployed persons from Northern Nigeria and then parade them as being insurgents and give them the money.

This proposed amnesty by the Federal Government will not work. Number one, the Boko Haram group did not say amnesty is one of the conditions to which they will end this violence. Secondly, this committee that is set up by the Federal Government is not different from all other committees that have been parading themselves and engaging in dialogue with the Boko Haram group, and it has never worked.

The only viable contact with the Boko Haram was the one facilitated by me that took former president Olusegun Obasanjo to Maiduguri for peace talk and the one by a freelance journalist, Ahmed Salkida, which brought Dr. Ahmed Datti. Other dialogues apart from the two I mentioned were simply scams. There were series of false peace talks in Saudi Arabia, false peace talks in Maiduguri and false declaration of ceasefire which I have consistently debunked which have come out to be true and I’m saying there is every likelihood that the insurgents will debunk the amnesty.

There was the committee by the northern states’ governors, the one by Ambassador Zakari Ibrahim, the one by Borno State Government, and now one by the Federal Government. Nigerians have continuously been fooled with series of ceasefire. It is another road to deception; Nigerians should be worried because billions of tax payers’ money is about to be siphoned for a fruitless fight that is going to lead us nowhere.

So, how can the Federal Government tackle this insurgency once and for all?

I have already said that there are two ways of tackling this insurgency;the use of force and the use of dialogue. Well, government has consistently deceived itself that force can end the insurgency, they are not wrong in the sense that the insurgency has ended in some countries using force; unfortunately, it did not work here. Secondly, there is the option of dialogue. Before an amnesty, you need to have a committee and this committee should be seen to be independent and must have the representatives of the Federal Government and it must have the respect of members of the sect.

It is only when they have the respect of the sect that they will have the chance to work things out but if you set up a committee that is made up of the Chief of Air Staff, Chief of Naval staff, D.G SSS, in fact all security chiefs and some sweethearts of the president, do you think the insurgents will listen to you? It is just a simple logic; the very fact that the committee will serve as the mediating body should make it independent and have the capacity and the respect for whatever is going to be the outcome. And this committee should be credible, it should comprise first and foremost, the leaders of different Islamic sects in Northern Nigeria and then you also have representatives of JNI, Ahmed Salkida, a freelance journalist. Now Nigerians should ask themselves why dialogue has continued to fail.

It has continued to fail because they have continued to do the wrong thing. No matter the high level committee set up, as long as that committee cannot reach out to the leader of Boko Haram, it is technically and virtually impossible to pin down on this insurgents.

The committee that I have suggested that should comprise all these should ensure a ceasefire from the side of the Boko Haram for at least seven to eight months; they should also extract commitment within this period to end arrest and harassment .There should be no shooting, bombing and killings of innocent persons so that there would be a period of silence for eight months. Then the root cause of this insurgence will now be tabled, the killing of Mohamed Yusuf, several Boko Haram members will table their demands and make reasonable contact to their families, aiming for reconciliation over what happened. This committee should reach out to all those people who are in detention, this committee should 100 percent, take stock of victims of Boko Haram who have been killed in all those places. You sit down with them, hear their own story, the orphans and see how justice could be done to them before you talk of amnesty. We simply wake up one day and declare amnesty and think that the next day, amnesty will calm everybody down.

That committee must have reached out to the leader of Boko Haram, followed by a ceasefire and then do justice to victims of Boko Haram. Boko Haram is different from Niger Delta militants.

Are you aligning yourself with other Nigerians who opposed Federal Government’s decision of amnesty?

I have not opposed amnesty and I do not support a bogus amnesty that is simply aimed at defrauding Nigerians. If we want an amnesty that will end this problem…it looks so simplistic to say that there is an amnesty; so people will come out and lay down arms and collect money. We must also understand that there are some acts of violence that are different from the North and Niger Delta. The Niger Delta militants want a fair share of resources from their region; they also want money to be given to them, and some of them have openly come to say they want money as a condition to end the violence. Boko Haram has never made any monetary claim, nobody should go and allocate billions of tax payers’ money for them and I am saying it very clearly, when I led President Obasanjo to Maiduguri, I took onlyN20,000 for fuel; nobody should come and defraud Nigerians in the name of lining up some street boys and misinforming Nigerians that they are militants, then give them some millions and also give some Islamic personalities contracts like they are giving Tampolo and others in the Niger Delta.

Are you totally opposing northern leaders who are clamouring for amnesty for Boko Haram?

Look, what I am just telling you is this; all these elders, most of them are for amnesty because they want to save their necks so that the fire will not reach them; but many of them are part of what has led us into this mess. If they have spoken out against corruption and mismanagement when northerners were in power, we would not have been here, which has made it so easy for the insurgents to recruit millions of our young people who have been abandoned by government.

The leader of Boko Haram did not say he needs money like the Niger Delta leaders, Tampolo and Asari Dokubo. So, am still emphasising on this so that nobody will defraud Nigeria. I am for amnesty but not for scam.

You talked about Salkida a freelance journalist, but from report I have read, Salkida has fled Nigeria over security threats. What do you say about this?

Nigerians should ask themselves questions. Why should such a person flee when he has made sacrifice and even offered to arrange the first meeting directly with the Boko Haram group. Such a Nigerian should be encouraged if he has access to Boko Haram and these people trust him, why don’t we bring him and make him Chairman of the committee? Must he be a billionaire? Must he be a politician or is it because he is a journalist? Didn’t they know that sometimes, a solution to a problem may just be before you? I know the kind of effort and sacrifice that man has put in.

You kicked against the Sultan of Sokoto as the chairman of the amnesty committee, what is your reason?

First of all, the Sultan is a leader of Muslims in Nigeria, despite that the Boko Haram sect has not recognized him or respected him. Apart from making statements, what other efforts has he made? He might have made efforts but without any result.

I am talking to you today not because I am an activist or a commentator, but I went to Maiduguri, and I have proved to you what I have been doing. Why has the Sultan not gone to Maiduguri? So, you see he would have solved a lot of problems but this one, he is ineffective. So, making him the chairman of an amnesty committee will not work. For example, during the postelection crisis in 2011, people like him were targeted and even the Emir of Kano, an old man was also targeted, the Shehu of Borno was also targeted.

So, how can you bring somebody who is being hunted to chair an amnesty committee?

The only thing the chairman of the committee will do is to submit a proposal to Goodluck Jonathan requesting for billions of naira to settle the sect, and some rascals from Sokoto, Katsina, Kano, Maiduguri and Jos will be brought in and money will be given to them and some Islamic leaders will be given contracts as much as they are giving Tompolo. But what connection do they have with Shekaru, or what connection do they have with entire members of Boko Haram?

Do you have any regret for taking expresident Obasanjo to Maduguri after which concrete suggestions were made to the Presidency but might have been ignored?

Well, today, the only pain I feel is the killing of Baba Fugo. Fugo was a man of peace and determination. Both of us sought the permission of the Boko Haram group to organise a reconciliation. But the group came up openly and denied that they were the ones that killed him.

I have to believe them because they killed so many people and admitted but why did they reject this one? Our suggestions to the Presidency were buried by the late General Andrew Azazi because he believed his way was the only way. Azazi misinformed the president to go to South Korea and said Nigeria will end Boko Haram by June last year. So, our efforts were sabotaged by no other person than Azazi, and this is to show how some people who think they are security experts think they can stop Boko Haram, using security formula but they do not know the economic, political and social aspects of it and that is why the problem is persisting. I will continue to say in my own way how to solve this problem. When all Nigerians believed that a peace talk was going on, I said it was not and it came out to be true, and I’m saying that this amnesty will not go anywhere because the committee members, no matter how highly placed they are, if they do not reach out to the sect, it will not work.

Who is that one person that can guarantee the effectiveness of this amnesty?

There is no person. If you ask me of two or three persons, the first person is Ahmed Salkida, but that does not mean there are no other persons who can equally reach out. Those kinds of people will not want their names in print. Everybody thought it was going to the Sultan and when the Sultan failed to deliver, then they have nowhere to go.

As it is now, what will happen if the amnesty fails?

It means we have failed, the Federal Government has failed. The government must reach out to those people who are respected by the sect so that the crucial issues will be properly resolved.

Chai! I still miss Baba. Wish he ruled 3rd term and 4th term.