https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6paIw_8pzQ

Reserving this space till it dares make front page

Why do the Shi'ah prostrate on Turbah?

Therefore celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and be of those who prostrate themselves in adoration (Holy Qur'an 15:98)

The Shi'ah Muslims prefer to prostrate on a small block of earth, called a Turbah, which is usually made from clay from the land of Karbala in Iraq.

According to the Shi'ah Ja'fari fiqh - which is one of the five main schools of law in Islam - prostration must be performed on pure earth or what grows on it, provided that it is not eaten or worn. This includes dust, stone, sand and grass, provided that it is not a mineral. Prostration on paper is permitted, because it is made of a material which grows on earth, but not cloth or carpets.

The legal scholars of all the Sunni schools of law concur regarding the validity of prostration on earth and that which grows on it.

Did the Prophet (s) and his Companions ever do this?
Praying on the earth was certainly the practice of the Prophet (s) and those around him.

Narrated Abu Sa'id al-Khudri: I saw Allah's Apostle prostrating in mud and water and saw the mark of mud on his forehead.

[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 12, no. 798; vol. 3, book 33, no. 244]

Narrated Anas bin Malik: We used to pray with the Prophet in scorching heat, and if someone of us could not put his face on the earth (because of the heat) then he would spread his clothes and prostrate over them.

[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 2, book 22, no. 299]

According to this hadith only in exceptional circumstances would the Prophet (s) and his Companions prostrate on cloth.

The Prophet (s) also used to have a Khumra on which he would put his forehead for prostration.

Narrated Maymuna: Allah's Apostle used to pray on a Khumra.
[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 8, no. 378]

According to al-Shawkani, a famous Sunni scholar, more than ten Companions of the Prophet (s) have narrated traditions mentioning his prostration on a Khumrah. And he lists all the Sunni sources recording these traditions which include Sahih Muslim, Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abu Dawud, Sunan al-Nasa'i and many others.
[Al-Shawkani, Nayl al-Awtar , Chapter of Prostration on the Khumrah, vol. 2, p. 128]


So what is a khumrah?

a small mat sufficient just for the face and the hands while prostrating during prayers.
[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 8, no. 376 (as explained by the translator in paranthesis)]


Ibn al-'Athir, another famous Sunni scholar, in his Jami al-'Usul has written:

"Khumra is [like that] upon which the Shi'ah of our time perform their prostrations."
[Ibn al-'Athir, Jami' al-Usul, (Cairo, 1969), vol. 5, p. 467]

"Khumra is a small mat made from palm fibres or other material…. and it is like that which the Shi'ah use for prostration."
[Talkhis al-Sihah, p. 81]


But why the earth of Karbala?
The special characteristics of the soil of Karbala (Iraq) were known and it was an object of special attention during the time of the Prophet (s) as well as in later times:

Umm Salama says: I saw Husayn (a) sitting in the lap of his grandfather, the Prophet (s), who had a red block of soil in his hand. The Prophet (s) was kissing the dust and weeping. I asked him what that soil was. The Prophet (s) said: "Gabriel has informed me that my son, this Husayn, will be murdered in Iraq. He has brought this earth for me from that land. I am weeping for the suffering that will befall my Husayn." Then the Prophet (s) handed the dust to Umm Salama and said to her: "When you see this soil turn into blood, you will know that my Husayn has been slaughtered." Umm Salama kept the soil in a bottle and kept watch over it until she saw on the day of Ashura, 10th of Muharram 61 A.H., that it turned to blood. Then she knew that Husayn bin Ali (a) had been martyred.

[al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak, vol. 4, p. 398]
[al-Dhahabi, Siyar a`lam al-nubala', vol. 3, p. 194]
[Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, vol. 6, p. 230]
[al-Suyuti, Khasa'is al-kubra, vol. 2, p. 450; Jam` al-Jawami, vol. 1, p. 26]
[Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Tahdhib al-tahdhib , vol. 2, p. 346]


'Ali ibn Abi Talib, passed by Karbala after the battle of Siffin. He took a handful of its soil and exclaimed: 'Ah, ah, on this spot some men will be slain, and will enter Paradise without reckoning!'
[Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Tahdhib al-tahdhib , vol. 2, p. 348]


Why is it compulsory to prostrate on the clay from Karbala?

It is not !

But the Shi'ah prefer to prostrate on the earth of Karbala because of the importance given to it by the Prophet (s) and the Imams from his Family (Ahl al-Bayt). After the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a), his son Imam Zayn al-'Abidin (a) picked some up, declared it to be sacred dust, and kept it in a bag. The Imams (a) used to perform prostrations on it and make a tasbih out of it, and recited Allah's praises on it.

[Ibn Shahrashub, al-Manaqib, vol. 2, p. 251]


They also encouraged the Shi'ah to perform prostrations on them, with the understanding that it was not compulsory, but with a view to achieving greater recompense. The Imams (a) insisted that prostration before Allah must be on clean earth only and that it was preferable if it was performed on that earth of Karbala.

[al-Tusi, Misbah al-Mutahajjad, p. 511]

[al-Saduq, Man la yahduruhu'l faqih, vol. 1, p. 174]


The Shi'ah for a long time have kept this earth with them. Then, fearing that it might be desecrated, they kneaded it into small tablets or pieces, which are now called mohr or Turbah. During prayers we prostrate on it not as a compulsory act but in view of its special nature. Otherwise, when we have no pure soil with us, we prostrate on clean earth, or something that originates from it.

It is a pity that some people maliciously insist that the Shi'ah worship stones or that they worship Husayn (a). The truth is that we worship Allah alone by prostrating on the Turbah, not to it. And we never worship Imam Husayn, Imam Ali, or the Prophet Muhammad (s). We worship only Allah, and it is in accordance with Allah's order that we perform prostration only on pure earth.


Conclusion
This is the reason why Shi'ah Muslims carry small tablets, usually made from the earth of Karbala, which enables them to do prostration on this highly recommended object and to follow the sunnah of the Prophet (s).

http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/laws_practices/7.htm

Not so fast. There are several issues to be observed from this write up.
1. if the soil must be pure, was it pure before the killing of Husayn(RA) or is it the killing that purified it more than any other soil?
2. Even in the narration quoted(even though unathenticated) nowhere is it stated that the Prophet (sallalhau alayhi wa salam) prostrated on it. he merely held it so if you want to follow the text, follow it exactly.
3. name the companions who also prostate on karbale stones.
4. when using narrations, state the authenticity form either sunni or shia perspective. so people will know the status of the narrations.
5. it is not sufficient to just quote narration from collectors of narrations, what is the collectors opinion of that narration. for example Abu Dawud comments on some ahadiths in his book by saying it is abrogated, so it will be unjust for someone to quote that narration as a narration from Abu Dawud and not say Abu Dawud position.
6. As an aside when you quote sunni narrations to support sunni positions, there is no point there, but when you quote auhtenticated sunni sources to oppose sunni views, then you have a point. likewise if we sunnis will quote shia sources (since we do not share authentication), it will only be useful if we quote what opposes your beliefs from your imams. which insha Allah abound and we will quote.

Abu Muhammad: Not so fast. There are several issues to be observed from this write up.
1. if the soil must be pure, was it pure before the killing of Husayn(RA) or is it the killing that purified it more than any other soil?

if that land was not pure,the blood of the Prophet (sa) through his grandson,would not have been spilled there.if there is any objection to the purity of that land,Allah (swt) would not have honored that land with the blood of the Prophet (sa) on it.before the tragedy of Karbala,the Prophet (sa) got hold of the soil of that land.that land is honored through Muhammad (sa) and the third holy Imam,Imam Hussain (as),the beloved grandson of Muhammad (sa).

and you want us to believe Sunnis love the Ahlul-Bayt (as)? shame!!!

2. Even in the narration quoted(even though unathenticated) nowhere is it stated that the Prophet (sallalhau alayhi wa salam) prostrated on it. he merely held it so if you want to follow the text, follow it exactly.

he didn't prostrate on it,but he never prostrated on rug or carpet as sunnis do today.the Prophet (sa) insisted prostration is on earth.prostrating on the earth of karbala or somewhere else,is irrelevant as long as the prostration is done on earth.that is the point.and it is ridiculous hadiths in reliable sunni books is claimed "unauthenticated" when it supports the Shia.cant you be consistent with what you present?

3. name the companions who also prostate on karbale stones.

Jabir Ibn Abdullah al-Ansar (may Allah bless him and be pleased with him).its not "stones".its "soil".

4. when using narrations, state the authenticity form either sunni or shia perspective. so people will know the status of the narrations.

these are sunni hadiths from bukahri/muslim about the insistence that prostration be done on earth.

5. it is not sufficient to just quote narration from collectors of narrations, what is the collectors opinion of that narration. for example Abu Dawud comments on some ahadiths in his book by saying it is abrogated, so it will be unjust for someone to quote that narration as a narration from Abu Dawud and not say Abu Dawud position.

your entire religion is abrogation.how fake!

if you have any problem with any hadith stated,state it and it would be tackled.if not,keep quiet.

[quote]
6. As an aside when you quote sunni narrations to support sunni positions, there is no point there, but when you quote auhtenticated sunni sources to oppose sunni views, then you have a point. likewise if we sunnis will quote shia sources (since we do not share authentication), it will only be useful if we quote what opposes your beliefs from your imams. which insha Allah abound and we will quote.

back your words with evidence or keep quiet.

LagosShia:
if that land was not pure,the blood of the Prophet (sa) through his grandson,would not have been spilled there.

I am not sure Abu Muhammad mentioned anywhere that the land was not pure.

LagosShia: Jabir Ibn Abdullah al-Ansar (may Allah bless him and be pleased with him).its not "stones".its "soil".

Not saying this is true or not true, but I think a source would be nice.

LagosShia:
But the Shi'ah prefer to prostrate on the earth of Karbala because of the importance given to it by the Prophet (s) and the Imams from his Family (Ahl al-Bayt).

The importance given to it by the Prophet is not sufficient justify that preference. For example, when Muslims prefer to prostrate in the Masjid Haram, if they are able to, they do so based on evidence. What saying of the Prophet supports this preference?

LagosShia: he didn't prostrate on it,but he never prostrated on rug or carpet as sunnis do today

LagosShia: these are sunni hadiths from bukahri/muslim about the insistence that prostration be done on earth.

There is an authentic hadith of the Prophet praying on a Khumrah. This provides sufficient evidence that praying on any other (pure) surface, other than the earth is allowed in principle. Is a person's prayer void he prayed on a rug? Where's the evidence for this?

LagosShia: This is the reason why Shi'ah Muslims carry small tablets, usually made from the earth of Karbala, which enables them to do prostration on this highly recommended object and to follow the sunnah of the Prophet (s)

I didn't get this part. How is "carrying small, tablets usually made from the earth of Karbala" following the Sunnah of the Prophet? Has the Prophet ever done this, or given instruction to do this?

@LagosShia Frankly, you sounded very harsh in your response to Abu Muhammad. I believe this is a question of fiqh which people could have divergent views. Can't we just peacefully disagree on some things?

Thank you brother Ibrahim. I almost expect them to go violent and they did not disaapoint. the blood of the messenger of allah was spilled in battle with the kuffar, does that make it preferable to pray on such soil?

Jabir prayed on soil/stone, please quote in full and the source

Sunni hadiths about prostrating on earth, did anybody ever dispute about prostrating on earth? do not deflect, the issue is about the soil of karbala not any other soil.

About abrogation, the quran also refers to abrogation, unless you don't believe that part. (and we would not be surprised)

there are people following the satanic desires within themselves to spread confusion over what is crystal clear even in their own books.this topic is not about whether it is the soil of Karbala,Makkah,Lagos,Abidjan,Cape Town or Washington one prefers to prostrate on.

this topic is about the following:

-it is bid'ah to prostrate on rug as the Prophet (sa) instructed his companions not to use cloth to pray on.
-it is Sunnah to pray on soil as the Prophet (sa) insisted sujood (prostration) be made on earth.

this is the view of Ibn Jawzaiyyah (one of the prominent students of Ibn Tie-Me-Yeah).anyone who disagrees should prove that it is not bid'ah to pray on rug,and it is not sunnah to pray on soil,and therefore the Shia Muslims are wrong.if you cannot prove the above on the two points I have raised,then hold your peace.i am not going to argue over this issue and go in circles and stray from the topic into arguments or side-topics,when even a classical Wahhabi scholar in his own book had issued a fatwa supporting what the Shia uphold to this day.whatever else you want to know,google it or raise it in another thread and I will answer.this topic is only about prostrating on earth as a sunnah and not prostrating on rug because it is a bid'ah.and we know that (the Prophet (sa) said: ) "every bid'ah is misguidance,and every misguidance is in the hell fire.this is a popular hadith the sunnis like to parrot.so now apply it to yourselves.the Prophet (sa) also said "pray as you have seen me pray".chikena!

Why do Shia prostrate on turbah (pieces of clay)?

Question:

Some of my Muslim brothers and sisters ask why we (prostrate) on the turbah? Can you please elaborate, as to why we (prostrate) on it and on where this hadith came from?

Answer:

1. The Earth is a Place of Prostration

There is a narration narrated in Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari (Sunni books), as well as the Shia books, where the Prophet (pbuh) says:

“The earth is made for me as place of prostration and purification.”

(Bukhari 1:209, Muslim 1:371, Wasa’elu-Shi’a 3:423)

From this narration, we understand that when we prostrate, it should be on ‘earth’ or something directly from the earth. This includes soil, sand, pebbles and minerals (except gold and silver). It also includes paper and leaves from trees because they grow from the earth. (Tissue is probably the last option if nothing else is available).

The other condition is that the thing we pray on must not be wearable or edible. Therefore, we cannot pray on leaves from plants which are edible or from which clothes can be made (e.g. cotton).

Imam al-Sadiq (as) says:

“Prostration is only allowed on earth or things that are from the earth, except those things which can be worn or consumed”. (Wasailul Shia, 3:591)

2. Why we do not (prostrate) on Carpet?

We do not (prostrate) on carpet because it is not earth and is not made from earth. The above narration says that we should (prostate) on the earth, and therefore carpet is no something we can (prostrate) on. This is confirmed by other narrations. Abu Said al-Khudri narrates about the Prophet:

“We were in the mosque and the roof of the mosque was made of date palm branches so that we could not see up into the sky. One day it rained heavily. The Prophet (pbuh) led the prayer with us, so much so that I saw the marks of the mud on the forehead of the Prophet (pbuh…” (Bukhari, 2:386)

A’isha narrates:

“The Prophet (pbuh) never placed anything between his forehead and the earth…”

(Mosnad Imam Ahmad, 6:58)

At the time of the Prophet, carpets did exist and if the Prophet (pbuh) wished, he could have prayed/(prostrated) on a carpet or laid the mosque’s floor with carpet. However, this never happened.


3. Narrations about the Straw Mat (Khumrah)

We also have many narrations from Sunni sources that the Prophet (pbuh) would have a small straw square that he would prostrate on. It seems that when it was too hot to place one’s forehead on the soil, the Prophet would use a straw mat to prostrate on. As this is made from trees, it is considered a product of the earth.

Um Salama: ‘The Prophet would pray on a small strawmat’.

Anas: ‘The Prophet would pray on a straw mat’.

(Bukhari, 1:231)

Therefore, it is at least a precaution to avoid praying on carpet as the Prophet (pbuh) did not ever do this. Imam al-Sadiq (as) says:

“I prefer that he prostrates on the earth. The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) used to like to place his forehead on the earth. I like for you what the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) used to like.”

(WasailulShia)

Answered by: Dr Ali Alsamail
Certified by: Sheikh Mansour Leghaei

http://www.askthesheikh.com/why-do-shia-prostrate-on-turbah-pieces-of-clay/

Hadith Explaining the Sunnah of Prostrating on Earth:

1.) Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as) was asked about the philosophy behind prostrating on the earth, he said:

“Because prostration is surrendering and humiliation to the Almighty. Therefore, it shouldn’t be on what is worn and eaten because people are slaves of what they eat and wear, and prostration is worshipping of Allah, so one should not put his forehead during prostration on that which is worshipped by the people (food and clothing) and that which conceits people.”
Wasa’il al-Shi’ah, Vol 3 page 591


2.) Sunan Abu Dawud, Urdu Edition, page 381, 376:

“The Prophet (s) had the sign of Mud on his forehead and Nose, due to prostration on Mud”

3.) “Jabir Ibn Abdullah (ra) reported : We were praying with Messenger of Allah [s] at noon (dhuher prayer) so I held pebbles in my palm to make it cold then switch it to my other palm and when I prostrate I put them down for my forehead”
1.Sunan al-Nisa’i, Volume 2 page 204
2.Sunan al-Bayhaqi Volume 1 page 439
3.Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Volume 3 page 327.

Thank God you said is not obligatory to prostrate on turba.

That's all I'm looking to hear. But you add more burdens on yourselves carrying that clay around everywhere. Allah's earth is sufficient.

Empiree:
Thank God you said is not obligatory to prostrate on turba.
That's all I'm looking to hear. But you add more burdens on yourselves carrying that clay around everywhere. Allah's earth is sufficient.

is it also burden to carry prayer mats around?

the point is whether on a piece of clay, or directly on the earth, do you agree that prostrating on the mat is not sunnah?

Rafidi:


is it also burden to carry prayer mats around?

the point is whether on a piece of clay, or directly on the earth, do you agree that prostrating on the mat is not sunnah?

Well, i dont have problem with it. I know not all Shia really pray on it. I guess it is your choice as long as you dont arribute specific deity with it

Empiree:
Well, i dont have problem with it. I know not all Shia really pray on it. I guess it is your choice as long as you dont arribute specific deity with it

brother, why do you sound confused and scared?

are you insinuating that there are Muslims, and in particular Shia, who attribute specifi deity with it? what sort of statement is that?

you have been presented with facts from Sunni Sahih books that even in the time of the Prophet (s), the Prophet (s) insisted that the companions pray on earth/clay and not on any material. and it is also mentioned that companions molded clay and did sujood on it. and you have been told time without number that we prostrate ON it and not TO it or FOR it. if it is not a matter of imaginative "shirk", it is about how convenient in carrying it around. your first point is about carrying it around being a burden. i asked you if carrying prayer mats around can also be seen as burder. you have skipped that first point and raised another insinuation.

regarding the clay/turbah from Karbala, it is from a holy land, and there is no Shia who would have access to turbah (clay) from Karbala and would leave that to pray on ordinary clay from elsewhere or in somewhere else. the sanctity of Karbala is not a matter of dispute to the generality of Sunnis aside the Wahhabis. there is no doubt that Karbala is holy.

Rafidi:


brother, why do you sound confused and scared?

are you insinuating that there are Muslims, and in particular Shia, who attribute specifi deity with it? what sort of statement is that?

you have been presented with facts from Sunni Sahih books that even in the time of the Prophet (s), the Prophet (s) insisted that the companions pray on earth/clay and not on any material. and it is also mentioned that companions molded clay and did sujood on it. and you have been told time without number that we prostrate ON it and not TO it or FOR it. if it is not a matter of imaginative "shirk", it is about how convenient in carrying it around. your first point is about carrying it around being a burden. i asked you if carrying prayer mats around can also be seen as burder. you have skipped that first point and raised another insinuation.

Why are you stressing yourself over this?. You are insinuating what I didn't even think about. As for clay and Mat analogy, doesn't add up.

Anyways, here are some did for u

Read more. .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamistruth./2011/01/25/prostration-sajda-on-carpet/amp/?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Empiree:
Why are you stressing yourself over this?. You are insinuating what I didn't even think about. As for clay and Mat analogy, doesn't add up.

Anyways, here are some did for u

brother, are those attachments the only ahadith found in regards to prostration on the earth? those hadiths do not contradict praying on earth or from products of the earth. if you had read the preceding posts, we wont have to rehearse. we Shia maintain based on the prophetic hadith, that we should pray as the Prophet (s) prayed. from all indications, we insist that we pray on the earth. if we cant pray on the earth, then we can pray on any material that is a product of the earth. khumrah or palm leaf is fine. wooden mats are also fine. even paper is fine to prostrate on if you cannot prostrate on the earth. however, it is evident from a number of sources that prostration is on the earth.

the prostration on persian rugs or turkish carpets is an innovation. even Ibn Taymiyyah had passed a fatwa against it. it is an innovation in salat that later came to be accepted.

in Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 638:

Narrated Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri:
A cloud came and it rained till the roof started leaking and in thosedays the roof used to be of the branches of date-palms. Iqama was pronounced and I saw Allah’s Apostles prostrating in water and mud and even I saw the mark of mud on his forehead.

in Sunan Abu Dawud, Urdu Edition, page 381, 376:

“The Prophet (s) had the sign of Mud on his forehead and Nose, due to prostration on Mud”

All of the below traditions have been taken from Volume 7 of Kanz ul Ummal from the section on sujood laws/hadiths:

We read in Kanz ul Ummal, Vol 7 Tradition No. 19804

“From Umm Attiya it is narrated that the Salat of one who does not place his nose right on the EARTH is not accepted”

We should also point out that Ali Muttaqi al-Hindi raises no objection to this tradition in Kanz ul Ummal.

We also read:

Ibn Attiya narrates “Verily God does not accept the Salat of One who does not put his Nose right on the EARTH/SOIL”.
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 7 Hadith 19775

we read the fatwa of Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

“Abdullah Ibn Abbas said: He who doesnt put his nose with his forehead on the Earth/Soil when doing Sajdah (Prostration), his Salat is invalid”

We have taken this from the following Sunni sources

1. Kanz ul Ummal Vol 7, Page 464 (No. 19802)
2. Al Mu’jam al Awsat by Tabarani Vol3, Page 139 (No. 4111)

Sa’id Ibn Al Mussayab stated that praying on cloth was Bida’h

Imam of Ahle Sunnah, Jusrit of all Jurists and the most superior among all Tabaeen Saeed bin al Mussayyib had the following views about praying on carpet/cloth. Ibn Sa`ad records from Qatadah:
أخبرنا قتادة قال سألت سعيد بن المسيب عن الصلاة على الطنفسة فقال محدث

“I asked Sa’id Ibn Al Mussayyib about praying on carpets. He said ‘It is something new’.”
Tabqaat Ibn Saad, Vol. 3 Page 160, By Mohammad bin Saad Al-Basri

Tabqaat Ibn Saad, Vol. 3 Page 160, By Mohammad bin Saad Al-Basri

In the Urdu version of Tabaqat al Kubra we read:

“Narrated from Qatadah that when Sa’id Ibn Al Mussayyib was asked about praying on cloth, He said: ‘It is Bidah’.”
Tabaqat Ibn Sa`ad (Urdu), Vol 3 Part 5 page 160 (published by Daarul Ishaat Karachi)
Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Masud never prostrated other than on soil

Those ignorant Nasibis who call Shia innovators and deviated for keeping a Sagdagah with them for prostration during prayers shall read about the practice of a great Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Masud who never prared on anything other than soil. We read the testimony of another Sahabi Abu Ubaidah recorded by Al Haythami in his Majma’ al-Zawa’id by, Volume 2 page 57 Hadith 2272:

وعن أبي عبيدة أن ابن مسعود كان لا يصلي أو لا يسجد إلا على الأرض‏.‏

“Abu Ubaidah narrates that the companion Ibn Mas’ud never prayed or prostrated except on the soil”

read more: http://www.shiapen.com/fiqh/shia-method-of-prayers-salat/turbah.html

Rafidi:


brother, are those attachments the only ahadith found in regards to prostration on the earth? those hadiths do not contradict praying on earth or from products of the earth. if you had read the preceding posts, we wont have to rehearse. we Shia maintain based on the prophetic hadith, that we should pray as the Prophet (s) prayed. from all indications, we insist that we pray on the earth. if we cant pray on the earth, then we can pray on any material that is a product of the earth. khumrah or palm leaf is fine. wooden mats are also fine. even paper is fine to prostrate on if you cannot prostrate on the earth. however, it is evident from a number of sources that prostration is on the earth.

My concern really is, say for instance, you enter to pray in a masjid already furnished with carpet or rug, do you think it is still necessary to prostrate on that little clay of yours?. If so why since the place is already earthy and clean?. What other excuse do you have?.

For the mat, it is only carried for space, or to avoid praying with cloth on dirts, etc. Not specifically for prostration or anything of sort. If i enter masjid and already carried my rug with me, but I am fortunate to get a space, the rug means nothing. It is not about prostration.

Like me, I carry my carpet in my car all the time in case i travel and it is prayer time. I can always stop by roadside and pray. Purpose of this is in case the area is not pleasant. Not becuz of prostrating on it. But from what i gathered, you seem to attach importance to the clay which is what I am against. There is no importance with mat, rug or carpet with me.

the prostration on persian rugs or turkish carpets is an innovation. even Ibn Taymiyyah had passed a fatwa against it. it is an innovation in salat that later came to be accepted.

really dont know how this is innovation to begin with. Is it bcuz of the name tag or what?. rug is rug. carpet is carpet unless it is made of port skin.

Empiree:
My concern really is, say for instance, you enter to pray in a masjid already furnished with carpet or rug, do you think it is still necessary to prostrate on that little clay of yours?. If so why since the place is already earthy and clean?. What other excuse do you have?.

For the mat, it is only carried for space, or to avoid praying with cloth on dirts, etc. Not specifically for prostration or anything of sort. If i enter masjid and already carried my rug with me, but I am fortunate to get a space, the rug means nothing. It is not about prostration.

at a time intolerance is at all time high, even if i have the turbah with me i wouldnt pray on it.

the Shia face the same issue during hajj. the saudis or other intolerant zealots would kick it away. the Shia pilgrims have deviced two ways to use the turbah in Makkah or during the hajj season. they wear it round their neck like a chain and prostrate on it when they go down. or they use wooden mats.

Like me, I carry my carpet in my car all the time in case i travel and it is prayer time. I can always stop by roadside and pray. Purpose of this is in case the area is not pleasant. Not becuz of prostrating on it. But from what i gathered, you seem to attach importance to the clay which is what I am against. There is no importance with mat, rug or carpet with me.

really dont know how this is innovation to begin with. Is it bcuz of the name tag or what?. rug is rug. carpet is carpet unless it is made of port skin.

aside from the fact that we insist that prostration is done on the earth, as the Prophet (s) did, of course without a shadow of doubt we place importance on prostration on the turbah from Karbala particularly. we believe Karbala is a garden of the gardens of paradise. the paradise of Allah on earth. the land where the purest of blood was shed. a land that has tradition with the prophets of Allah like Adam and Noah. this is based on our understanding as Shia and the hadiths we have passed to us from the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as). no one really expects you to understand, accept or see this as important. you do not follow the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) as sources of your shariah. you see them as either some nobodies or some "holy toys" you only praise with your lips. our love for the Ahlul-Bayt (as) means obedience to their words and emulating their deeds. to us they are the inheritors of knowledge, the executors of the prophetic will, Allah's store of wisdom, Allah's proof to His creations, the protectors of the shariah whom the Prophet (s) ordered us to follow his sunnah and the sunnah of his rightly guided successors. they are the rightly guided successors whose sunnah we follow as we follow the sunnah of Muhammad (s). so when we emphasize on certain things that you overlook or consider as not important or even as bid'ah, it stems from followership. who do you follow after the Prophet (s). the same goes regarding all divisive issues between the Sunnis and Shia like mutah, Ashura, Arabaeen, taraweeh wudu etc.

the Prophet (s) prevented his companions from using their clothes to pray in the desert even when the sun was scorching hot. he insisted that they pray on the earth. they then used water to make the sand cold. and centuries later you want to convince me i should use wool to pray on because it is "cool" and looks beautiful and expensive. no i am not convinced. continue using your nice persian rugs. we will continue praying on clay or any direct product from the earth like wooden mats or khumra as the Prophet (s) did. and the Prophet (s) exactly warned: "pray as you have seen me pray". the significance of sujood on the earth is humility to Allah (swt). it has to do with khushoo. it has to do with the fact that the earth is masjid and for prostration. it has so many spiritual meanings and hidden meanings that perhaps we are yet to grasp.

so my brother, it is your choice. the problem is in those who do not allow us to have our own choice.