As Christians we know that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus but at what point does faith become foolishness/wickedness?

There are people who share the same belief as Herbert and Catherine Schaible, the Philadelphia couple who belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They are currently serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they refused to take the sick child to the hospital have his bacterial pneumonia treated, but prayed instead.

Last week, they lost another child after the 8-month-old boy suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for a least a week and stopped eating.

I'm almost certain that these are very loving and nurturing parents who care deeply about their children but their faith healing has cost them the loss of two children and a violation of their probation.

Does the Bible explicitly state or infer that taking medicine is a sin? I need my Bible scholars to help me out here. If it is, then why did God give man (doctors) the ability to diagnose and treat diseases. Let's keep in mind that these treatments are supposed to help us have a better quality of life.

It is important to note that taking medication doesn't necessarily mean that one's faith is in medical help and pills. The pills are taken in faith, believing that we'll be well after taking the pills.

Imagine our world without doctors, nurses and other medical professionals. The chaos will be unbearable. And why should we punish our children because of our faith?

If it is not sinful to drive a car, which solves transportation problem, then why is it a sin to go to the hospital to solve our medical issues?

Do you know anyone that shares the same belief as the Schaibles? What's your take on faith and medication?

Share your thoughts...

www.infonubia.com

Nothing quite sets my blood on fire like stories like these.

Poor innocent children dead because of foolish parents with misplaced beliefs

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Info wassup dude? nice to see you on this side.

Jesoul, thanks for stopping by to show some love...I appreciate it! . thanks for the info you provided. I checked it out a few times, nothing much to it

This also makes me sick in the pit of my stamach....but what is to be done because faith without works is meaningless right?

People like those parents need a check up, no offense but seriously? We can apply this kind of faith if the doctors had tried their best and applied all their medical knowledge on the patient and had lost the fight, then we can put the situation in God's hands. He alone will do what he knows is best for the child and the parents

HumbledbYGrace: This also makes me sick in the pit of my stamach....but what is to be done because faith without works is meaningless right?

People like those parents need a check up, no offense but seriously? We can apply this kind of faith if the doctors had tried their best and applied all their medical knowledge on the patient and had lost the fight, then we can put the situation in God's hands. He alone will do what he knows is best for the child and the parents

I dey fill u,propaganda so on point. Smh

The bible explicitly advocates that when we pray with no doubts in our hearts,our prayers will avail.

victor-NR-ceo:

I dey fill u,propaganda so on point. Smh

The bible explicitly advocates that when we pray with no doubts in our hearts,our prayers will avail.

@ bolded exactly which now leaves a question: was there something lacking in their faith or its one of those lesson learned the hardway?

The OP clearly unveils the non-existence of jehovah(God). Mysterious things happens to everyone,either to one's benefits or detriments,whether u an atheist or monotheist or wareva. Though,in the part of the christians,their can be separated from that fact,because of their divine inclination. Buh,how have they(christians) been differently affected?

HumbledbYGrace: @ bolded exactly which now leaves a question: was there something lacking in their faith or its one of those lesson learned the hardway?

If they were lacking in faith y did they still persist in faith after the fate with the first child?
With this proportion,the family's trust can be compared to the trust from abraham(father of all nations).

@op, may that childs soul rest in peace. Their prayers didn't work because they didn't have faith. If they knew they didn't have faith for the childs healing they should have taken her to the hospital

HumbledbYGrace: @ bolded exactly which now leaves a question: was there something lacking in their faith or its one of those lesson learned the hardway?

faith is not just believing, its putting your bible based belief into action, its a conviction, not an illusion. From the story above the childs parents didn't have faith, they just had prayerful expectations

Yooguyz:
faith is not just believing, its putting your bible based belief into action, its a conviction, not an illusion. From the story above the childs parents didn't have faith, they just had prayerful expectations

o e otlile botsekeng, thanks for shedding more light into this faith issue

victor-NR-ceo:

If they were lacking in faith y did they still persist in faith after the fate with the first child?
With this proportion,the family's trust can be compared to the trust from abraham(father of all nations).

we can't compare it, because Adam's faith and trust in God paid off....anyway I wouldn't wnat to make assumption based on what m not sure about, I would have loved this if they were here to answer to my questions. They might have known what they were doing, they might have had reason

Yooguyz: @op, may that childs soul rest in peace. Their prayers didn't work because they didn't have faith. If they knew they didn't have faith for the childs healing they should have taken her to the hospital

It's not about faith. Maybe God wanted the kid to die as punishment for their sins.

2 Samuel 12:
David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and spent the nights lying in sackcloth on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.
18 On the seventh day the child died. David’s attendants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, “While the child was still living, he wouldn’t listen to us when we spoke to him. How can we now tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate.”

Having been a victim of this same sort of situation when I was only hours away from death a few years ago, it appears we need to embark on a nationwide campaign to create awareness among our gullible but precious and beloved brethren.

This is why I keep banging on my table over and over again about cults and their danger, not only to the vulnerable but to the cause of Christ.

Brethren, read your bibles, ask God for wisdom and stop follow following men.

Smh

Yooguyz:
faith is not just believing, its putting your bible based belief into action, its a conviction, not an illusion. From the story above the childs parents didn't have faith, they just had prayerful expectations

@bolded: You realise there's a subtle difference between illusion and faith.. They're both of the mind though and usually need aren't based on any proof/evidence.

@theRest: What does 'they just had prayerful expectations' mean?

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. Christ in Our Place .

5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith[b] into this grace in which we stand, and we[c] rejoice[d] in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

1)Christians must understand what the journey with Christ really means. Our faith is not an energy to receive from God like it use to be with God's prophets and apostles. The only faith we have now is the trust in the faithfulness in God.
2)Crying to God in prayers would not change Gods mind, remember this is the same God that watched His only begotten son suffer and die for our sins in accordance with His will. The death of Christ gives us an assurance to share in Gods glory but does not immune us from natural situations and circumstances like any other human on the face of this earth.
3) every believer as a spirit and a body. The body can be treated by medicine and science ,cos naturally our bodies weaken and frail as we get older but the spirit grows through the word of God.
So when we feel sick we consult doctors
When we need money we work
When our finances are intermittent we seek financial advisers
If you want to renew your mind or know the mind of God seek the Bible

Knowledge is greater than any problem any man face.

Good morning info,

Sad story indeed but not very different from a number I have been privileged to witness first hand. It is very disturbing to think that at this age some persons will call themselves Christians but allow themselves to be used by 'others' or continue wallowing in scriptural ignorance.

When Jesus told us that if our faith is strong enough we will indeed move mountains, he did not mince words. Faith is a good to have but really do we now say because we have faith then we should go about abusing it? Those couples did a terrible wrong, both to God and to man...

Let's look at it this way: A man dying of thirst, came to a stream where he can quench this thirst but instead of availing himself of this God-given natural resource decided to, instead, pray and have faith that God will quench his thirst without drinking from the stream.

This in the least is very silly. God has granted us the grace to know a thing or two about medicine. Today so many diseases can be cured using simple medicines which are available to everyone. Instead of this couple to use what God has given, they decided to do it their own way...why ask God to give you what is in your laps already?

I have a lot to say on this but my post is already too long...

Thank you!

^^^^^

Good morning Info

I go die ooooo

Your comments are spot on, otherwise !!! Too many gullible people in our country today being preyed on by false prophets.

musKeeto:

@bolded: You realise there's a subtle difference between illusion and faith.. They're both of the mind though and usually need aren't based on any proof/evidence.

@theRest: What does 'they just had prayerful expectations' mean?

G morning musky,

The bold is demonstrably false...illusion is necessarily false from the get go but faith does not embody falsehood at the onset.

striktlymi:

G morning musky,

The bold is demonstrably false...illusion is necessarily false from the get go but faith does not embody falsehood at the onset.

And that's why i used 'subtle'...

Morning...

musKeeto:
And that's why i used 'subtle'...

Morning...

I hear u! Lol!!!...anyways, I don't think 'subtle' is the appropriate word to use to qualify this 'difference'.

striktlymi:

I hear u! Lol!!!...anyways, I don't think 'subtle' is the appropriate word to use to qualify this 'difference'.

Why?

Ask someone who's left a religion for another, I think you have. Or ask frosbel who once believed in Tithe, Trinity, Hell.....

musKeeto:

Why?

Ask someone who's left a religion for another, I think you have. Or ask frosbel who once believed in Tithe, Trinity, Hell.....

I am happy you know I have! I am not like anyone else (I believe you share same sentiments)...when I was in the other religion I believe because I am convinced about what I was doing...

Leaving does not mean that my convictions are out the window...far from it. I am still convinced of those realities but I choose not to follow. I really don't know what some other converts talk about when they say: 'They were formally deceived'...

frosbel: Having been a victim of this same sort of situation when I was only hours away from death a few years ago, it appears we need to embark on a nationwide campaign to create awareness among our gullible but precious and beloved brethren.

This is why I keep banging on my table over and over again about cults and their danger, not only to the vulnerable but to the cause of Christ.

Brethren, read your bibles, ask God for wisdom and stop follow following men.

Smh

The fact that you were a victim of some sort of situation does not change the potency of the word. The not the only one seeking healing from God, many who sought him have found him. If you were a victim of "whateva" it's because you are not doing something right. Search yourself.

striktlymi:

I am happy you know I have! I am not like anyone else (I believe you share same sentiments)...when I was in the other religion I believe because I am convinced about what I was doing...

Leaving does not mean that my convictions are out the window...far from it. I am still convinced of those realities but I choose not to follow. I really don't know what some other converts talk about when they say: 'They were formally deceived'...

How do you tell 'illusion' from 'faith'?

musKeeto:

How do you tell 'illusion' from 'faith'?

Now, it depends on the context you are using the word 'illusion' but generally one key factor that sets both apart is that 'illusion' is demonstrably false while the reality (truth or falsehood) of faith is yet to be ascertained.

striktlymi:

Now, it depends on the context you are using the word 'illusion' but generally one key factor that sets both apart is that 'illusion' is demonstrably false while the reality (truth or falsehood) of faith is yet to be ascertained.

This is getting interesting.. Make I go find food chop.. will be back to nibble on this..

musKeeto:

This is getting interesting.. Make I go find food chop.. will be back to nibble on this..

Chop remain for me sha...

Yooguyz:
The fact that you were a victim of some sort of situation does not change the potency of the word. The not the only one seeking healing from God, many who sought him have found him. If you were a victim of "whateva" it's because you are not doing something right. Search yourself.

Total and arrant nonsense!!

Yooguyz: @op, may that childs soul rest in peace. Their prayers didn't work because they didn't have faith. If they knew they didn't have faith for the childs healing they should have taken her to the hospital

My bro, I believe the bolded is the same problem the parents of the child have. What do you use to measure the size of faith? It also give room to the doctrine of if you want something say it and believe it then you would achieve it. People faith cars, houses and all in church. Then the guy that buys a range rover today automatically has more faith in our churches today. If any man can generate a certain faith or energy within himself to receive from God then the power to receive would be dependent on us.

But, that is a wrong doctrine that the prosperity MOG propagate. God does what He does on His terms and not our terms, all we can do Is believe His word that the intentions He has for us are of good and not evil.

Abraham the father of faith got a promise from God that He would have a child through his wife. This is naturally impossible cos Abraham was 100 years old and his wife 90. so Abraham laughed at the promise and God told him the name of the child shall be laughter. abraham's believe based on circumstances surrounding him like His age and that of His wife did not affect God's promise.He believed If God said It, God will do it. Notice that His believe did not stop him from sleeping with the slave woman,neither did it hinder Gods promise.

As Christians we have promises that has been written to us, all we can do is believe in those promises and stop faithing when we are faced with natural issues of life.

The story of this child and the parents might just be the will of God for the rest of us to learn to have faith/trust in the word of God instead of praying through faith for miracles. If they understood this, they might have saved the life if the child by taking him to the doctors.

frosbel:

Total and arrant nonsense!!

are you telling us healing is not scriptural? smh!

shdemidemi:


My bro, I believe the bolded is the same problem the parents of the child have. What do you use to measure the size of faith? It also give room to the doctrine of if you want something say it and believe it then you would achieve it. People faith cars, houses and all in church. Then the guy that buys a range rover today automatically has more faith in our churches today. If any man can generate a certain faith or energy within himself to receive from God then the power to receive would be dependent on us.

But, that is a wrong doctrine that the prosperity MOG propagate. God does what He does on His terms and not our terms, all we can do Is believe His word that the intentions He has for us are of good and not evil.

Abraham the father of faith got a promise from God that He would have a child through his wife. This is naturally impossible cos Abraham was 100 years old and his wife 90. so Abraham laughed at the promise and God told him the name of the child shall be laughter. abraham's believe based on circumstances surrounding him like His age and that of His wife did not affect God's promise.He believed If God said It, God will do it. Notice that His believe did not stop him from sleeping with the slave woman,neither did it hinder Gods promise.

As Christians we have promises that has been written to us, all we can do is believe in those promises and stop faithing when we are faced with natural issues of life.

The story of this child and the parents might just be the will of God for the rest of us to learn to have faith/trust in the word of God instead of praying through faith for miracles. If they understood this, they might have saved the life if the child by taking him to the doctors.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in believing God for a miracle..it is actually funny that you guys are mixing worldly wisdom with what God clearly stated in scriptures. my problem with the couples is not taking the child to the hospital seeing the situation has worsened. It is NOT the will of God that people should be sick. Infact the bible state it clearly that sickness is of the devil. The herbs, pills,medical expertise etc.. is God who gave Man the wisdom to do these things. Was Luke not a physician? Did Paul not advise Timothy to take a little alcohol for his stomach ailments. So why are you people condemning healing which also can come directly from God?