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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] (6439 Views)
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Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 1:29pm On May 04, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: I think you are the one who needs to read that article again, didn't you read the section on bottlenose dolphins? And how do you know they are not serious about it? Homosexual penguin couples raise chicks together, that is as serious as it can get man. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 1:34pm On May 04, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: So your only problem is with the method of killing, not the act itself? |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by mumumugu(m): 1:41pm On May 04, 2013 |
Logicboy03: It seems the op doesnt know the meaning of CONSENTthe op asked a question. Do scientist seek animal consent before use in laboratory experiment? Plz answer |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by mumumugu(m): 1:46pm On May 04, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA:whose consent? Whose permision? The animal permision |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 2:05pm On May 04, 2013 |
wiegraf: First let me make this clear: I was being sarcastic when I said animals do not have rights. I meant they should have rights, we say they do, but we do not treat them like they do. I also want you to understand my case. I am not advocating bestiality, I just want us to consider it. How can we say it is wrong yet we do all these other horrible things to them? You have made a case(albeit incomplete) for that and let me highlight my next point. How can we say bestiality(and other cases of paraphilia) is wrong yet we agree to homosexuality? Again you have put the issue of consent and have not agreed to my own definition of it. Now this is something I will still like to discuss but let me ask my third question: I have seen cases of humans having romantic relationships with objects, and by objects I mean cars, walls, what is your take on that? |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 2:10pm On May 04, 2013 |
Logicboy03: And so because something is not supported by society it becomes wrong? Since when did you become a conformist? What is really wrong in kissing in public? |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 2:26pm On May 04, 2013 |
inurmind: Okay, cool!!!...how I love it when I make wrong guesses... inurmind: Not really...I won't want us to look at it strictly from the perspective of right and wrong...these tend to be rather subjective. inurmind: Rather inappropriate behaviour cause it's against nature's laws I guess...yes, I agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with a lion taking a peek at the buttocks of a goat but having s*x with this goat is another matter entirely. The lion strictly speaking cannot be held liable even when he decides to have s*x with this poor antelope but the truth is that animals act based on instinct (to a large extent) and not necessarily on a well defined thought-process... Humans on the other hand have a well defined way of assessing proper and improper conduct in line with the laws of nature...we know when something is natural and when it is beyond the realm of nature. Now consider a situation where a goat comes into some individual's matrimonial home, and decides to 'colonise' the individual's wife (or daughter) for the night...will it be out of place for that individual to cry blue murder and put the 'bagger' to the butchers knife? If it would be proper for this individual to react in this way when the converse is the case, why then should we consider bestiality when the animal being 'raped' is technically some other animals babe? inurmind: But actually, these 'laws' apply to all as long as it is the 'normal' case...I assume we are looking at the 'normal' case here. inurmind: I agree! inurmind: I understand but don't you think that one of such privileges is for them to enjoy some form of protection from their well advanced 'brothers'? inurmind: You mean "puny brained" orthodox idiiot? Lol!!! |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 2:41pm On May 04, 2013 |
mumumugu: the op asked a question. Do scientist seek animal consent before use in laboratory experiment? Plz answer Consent applies to se.x |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by PAGAN9JA(m): 3:11pm On May 04, 2013 |
Logicboy03: My bro. you do not become a slave. when you grow old, your grandchildren will bow to you in respect of you. It doesnt make you a slave. no one bows to slaves when they get old. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by PAGAN9JA(m): 3:14pm On May 04, 2013 |
inurmind: i did not read about dolphins. show me the part again. cmon how do you know they are homosexual. animals do tend to confuse their sentiments and priorities. they are not involved in penetrative copulation. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by PAGAN9JA(m): 3:15pm On May 04, 2013 |
inurmind: yes thats right. the right method puts to rest any unnecessary killings. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by PAGAN9JA(m): 3:16pm On May 04, 2013 |
mumumugu: the op asked a question. Do scientist seek animal consent before use in laboratory experiment? Plz answer animal testing is a wrong act. this is why you have animal rights activists propagating against it today. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by PAGAN9JA(m): 3:16pm On May 04, 2013 |
mumumugu: whose consent? Whose permision? The animal permision what are you talking about i was asked the meaning of consent, thats all. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 6:49pm On May 04, 2013 |
inurmind: Strawmanned and missing by point! Bestiality is wrong on the count of consent. Shikena... I never said kissing in public is wrong. I was only making the point that something not being illegal does not entail support. Shikena |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by FromGuiriga(m): 7:07pm On May 04, 2013 |
Interesting topic. If the animal has not consented to the act, then the act against the animal is wrong in my humble opinion. This include killing them for consumption, using them for testing and so forth. I have yet to meet any living breathing animal that volunteered it's life for someone else' consumption. They usually run away. If another person feels that there is nothing wrong with it then perhaps that person is free to do with the animal as they please, depending on culture, the country laws and regulations his conscience and so forth. If I hunt for animals to kill for food then I cannot complain when the animal hunts me and kills me for food. A dead man cannot complain. You get the point thou. That's my 2 cents. Give thanks! |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 7:41pm On May 04, 2013 |
striktlymi:Inasmuch as I agree with you, the problem is that your God looks at cases from the point of right and wrong, take the ten commandments for example. So why shouldn't you? Rather inappropriate behaviour cause it's against nature's laws I guess...yes, I agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with a lion taking a peek at the buttocks of a goat but having s*x with this goat is another matter entirely. Your use of the word "poor" suggests that the antelope will be raped. That is surely wrong. But what of if the antelope consents to it? (Yeah, this is getting really weird ) Humans on the other hand have a well defined way of assessing proper and improper conduct in line with the laws of nature...we know when something is natural and when it is beyond the realm of nature. In your own words, animals do not have a well defined thoght process, so there is no way a goat is going do that, except he has an evil spirit in him or something. But let's assume a goat, or more realistically, a chimpanzee attempts to have sexual intercourse with a lady. The main issue here remains consent. If she consents to it, then no probs, if not, then the man may be justified in inflicting harm upon the animal. Although to be honest with you, when you think of the animal not having a well defined thought process, it kind of makes you deliberate on whether the animal deserves death or not. But then it hits you, animals, [b]as well as humans[b] are put to death when they commit heinous acts. In that regard, there is enough justification for killing the animal. If it would be proper for this individual to react in this way when the converse is the case, why then should we consider bestiality when the animal being 'raped' is technically some other animals babe.I don't think the animal having some faraway babe might be a good enough justification sir. But actually, these 'laws' apply to all as long as it is the 'normal' case...I assume we are looking at the 'normal' case here. My friend the point of this thread is to examine and consider abnormal cases, leave normality to the christian threads I agree! Well shouldn't that protection extend to freedom from murder, false imprisonment, assault and the like? You mean "puny brained" orthodox idiiot? Lol!!! No o, you da boss. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 8:09pm On May 04, 2013 |
inurmind: Inasmuch as I agree with you, the problem is that your God looks at cases from the point of right and wrong, take the ten commandments for example. So why shouldn't you? Like I said before that view is subjective... inurmind: Your use of the word "poor" suggests that the antelope will be Molested. That is surely wrong. But what of if the antelope consents to it? (Yeah, this is getting really weird ) You know the antelope will NEVER consent...getting near to a lion is bad enough let alone playing the bedroom game with one... inurmind: In your own words, animals do not have a well defined thoght process, so there is no way a goat is going do that, except he has an evil spirit in him or something. But let's assume a goat, or more realistically, a chimpanzee attempts to have intimate intercourse with a lady. The main issue here remains consent. If she consents to it, then no probs, if not, then the man may be justified in inflicting harm upon the animal. Although to be honest with you, when you think of the animal not having a well defined thought process, it kind of makes you deliberate on whether the animal deserves death or not. But then it hits you, animals, [b]as well as humans[b] are put to death when they commit heinous acts. In that regard, there is enough justification for killing the animal. The bold really puts an end to the discussion cause there you have it: bestiality is not appropriate. inurmind: I don't think the animal having some faraway babe might be a good enough justification sir. You mistake my point here...if it bestiality is not appropriate when the tables are turned then it should not be considered when humans are the main drivers. inurmind: My friend the point of this thread is to examine and consider abnormal cases, leave normality to the christian threads You mistake my meaning here...'normal' in terms of individuals who are in their right senses e.g sane humans as against mentally challenged individuals who really cannot be held liable for their actions. In order words humans that are rational... inurmind: Well shouldn't that protection extend to freedom from murder, false imprisonment, assault and the like? It should but again there will be exceptions to the rule in line with what Pagan 9ja mentioned earlier on how the 'killing' should be done and the dignity that every creature is entitled to. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 8:16pm On May 04, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: No problem: Bottlenose dolphins PAGAN 9JA: Really? Please elaborate. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 8:20pm On May 04, 2013 |
@striktlymi, forgive me for my tiny errors, wanted to do things sharp sharp. Will have to continue this discussion tomorrow, have something very important doing. Goodnight! |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 8:41pm On May 04, 2013 |
inurmind: @striktlymi, forgive me for my tiny errors, wanted to do things sharp sharp. No p bros... Lovely night rest! |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by wiegraf: 12:28am On May 05, 2013 |
inurmind: Then instead of compounding the problem, ie their lack of rights, we should be trying to fix it, no? This is a simple two wrongs don't make a right imo. Hypocritical? Yes. But we have to start from somewhere. These changes are generational, as are all issues that usually concern rights. inurmind: How can we say bestiality(and other cases of paraphilia) is wrong yet we agree to homosexuality? Homosexuality between two consenting adults clearly has no victims. It's nobody else's business, in any form whatsoever. inurmind: How is it anyone else's problem? Clearly no one is having his rights impinged on. With animals, they're a responsibility. We treat them like $hit, true, but it shouldn't be so. As for the issue of consent, think of one of the reasons we so vehemently condemn pe.dos, even if a kid 'consented' s/he was in a situation that was way over their head. The adult is usually (and rightly so) deemed a predator in these cases, as the adult usually has all the cards, manipulates, etc. Now, animals are even dumber than kids, no? Btw, this is just my view. I'm not exactly selling something here, but I can see the case for outlawing bestiality as having merit, unlike a lot of the other stuff religious want outlawed for ridiculously foolish reasons. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 10:22am On May 05, 2013 |
striktlymi:Okay how about a lion and a tiger? Again, the main issue being consent. The bold really puts an end to the discussion cause there you have it: bestiality is not appropriate.Forgive this pinky of a troublemaker, but I still cannot see how. You mistake my point here...if it bestiality is not appropriate when the tables are turned then it should not be considered when humans are the main drivers.I understood what you said, but remember, I didn't say it wasn't appropriate. You mistake my meaning here...'normal' in terms of individuals who are in their right senses e.g sane humans as against mentally challenged individuals who really cannot be held liable for their actions. In order words humans that are rational...This I now get. There can never be dignity in death my friend, at least not unless you consent to it. The lifespan of those animals are being shortened, it is still a form of abuse, no matter how painless the death may be. Every being wants to survive, it is a primary instinct to live, and depriving a being of his most precious asset is a most extreme case of abuse, we must not deny that. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 10:24am On May 05, 2013 |
^^^Will address this sweety, got to dash off to the Mainland... |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 10:35am On May 05, 2013 |
wiegraf: Agreed, but what solution do you proffer? A reduction of the pain inflicted on the animal to the barest minimum, while we still get our meat ? or a total eradication of all practices in which animals suffer distress and pain? |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 10:36am On May 05, 2013 |
striktlymi: ^^^Will address this sweety, got to dash off to the Mainland... Giving me a taste of my own igbo abi? No probs. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 10:39am On May 05, 2013 |
From_Guiriga: Interesting topic. If the animal has not consented to the act, then the act against the animal is wrong in my humble opinion. Thanks! |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 10:44am On May 05, 2013 |
Dibangoking: yeah coz ur theory on population control is laughable.....check it out urself......homosexuality,bestiality et al should nw be accepted based on reduced reproduction By the way dibangoking sorry for just answering this, infact I take God beg you, please no send evil spirit to me for night o. Anyway that was not my only reason, I gave others in the original post. Rereading time man. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 2:27pm On May 05, 2013 |
inurmind: No o! O ti o!! I can't fit to do dat kain thing for you o...Lol!!! |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Kay17: 4:35pm On May 05, 2013 |
Unconvincing rubbish! How is consent solicited from an animal? One can not make sense out of it, its chaotic. We can only rationalise this within a cultural context. I believe in our times, we associate a healthy sexual relationship with consent frm all the parties participating, and we irrationally extend this to cases of bestiality. Though it is consistent with our perception, yet irrational. We treat animals like trash |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Nobody: 4:38pm On May 05, 2013 |
Kay 17: Unconvincing rubbish! How is consent solicited from an animal? One can not make sense out of it, its chaotic. We can only rationalise this within a cultural context. Arent you a lawyer or something? Anyways, in law, the difference between se.x and ra.pe is consent. Under 18 year olds cant have se.x with older people because they are judged not to be mature enough to give consent. Consent defines s.ex. It makes so much sense and it is so rational. Animals cant give consent |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:36pm On May 05, 2013 |
inurmind: I have seen those videos. THey actually just tend to rub their genitals or graze them nect to each other as a sign of dominance and aggression. This helps them secure more females by dominating other males. Another info of note is that this behaviour is observed only in closed areas/artificial enclosures where many dolphins are clubbed together and kept in a smaller space, than the open seas. For example, the largest study conducted in Shark Bay was with 120 dolphins kept together. Just imagine all the territorial fights breaking out over that small radius. Another thing of note is that these are juveniles and this brings us to my 2nd statement of animals confusing their emotions and se.xual priorities. below:
Let me give you an example. A dog once tried to hump my leg. My leg is just a leg. But he felt perv.erted towards my left leg and kept trying to climb it. His thing was completely erect. Thats how. animals tend to get confused over their s.exual priorities. |
Re: On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] by Kay17: 5:37pm On May 05, 2013 |
^^ I think I covered what you said. |
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