I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not rise Against it. This Church Jesus was referring to is the Church of the true worshipers which is in our heart, it is not the physical churches we see today which are the gates of hell.

deelobe: My brothers and sisters the bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I am a pastor. Indeed apastor is a shepherd he is not God. Many Christians are now involved in pastor worship not God worship. You cannot do anything unless the pastor tells you go ahead. What happened to listening to the Spirit of God. The Bible says in John 2, that we have an unction from the holy one and that we know all things. Many Christians are too lzy to pray. They would rather sow seeds. A seed will solve anything they say. That is not true.

I was in a ministry for over twenty something years of my christian and pastoral life but I ran because of the money issues, moral decadence. We have choices as Christians. You can stay in the mess some pastors have created or rise and put your walk in order

And per your question. Are there real pastors. Yes they are. The Lord will never His children without help. He said I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not rise Against it. Elijah during the reign of ahab said Lord am the only prophet who has bowed to Satan. God told him I have one thousand and one prophets who have not succumb.. There are still many God fearing pastors pray for God to open your eyes to see them.

Lastly, let us keep praying for Pastors. Where I was they started well but something crept in along the line and they bowed to mammonism so now they are ensured by the list of the flesh, pride of life.

Thank you brother, nicely said and worthy of emulation.

GoodSamaritan: Your problem is ignorance, and nothing but ignorance.

The Bible says, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" (Hosea 4:6).

Pastor Kun, kindly show us one verse in the Bible where God says that He will spread the gospel all over the world through poverty. Secondly, show us how this thread can win souls to Christ.

Pastor Kun, if you can't find any scriptural verse like that, please apologize to us for raising this controversial thread, and beg God for forgiveness.

We're waiting...

Show us one verse in the new testament which supports the notion that the gospel can only be spread through the propagation of the 'name it and claim it, prosperity and/or tithe doctrines ?

mohioma: Why do we av so many divsions,why is d body of christ divided? #a song by a gospel musician#

Panam Percy Paul

According to the question, some are in my church.

deelobe: My brothers and sisters the bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I am a pastor. Indeed apastor is a shepherd he is not God. Many Christians are now involved in pastor worship not God worship. You cannot do anything unless the pastor tells you go ahead. What happened to listening to the Spirit of God. The Bible says in John 2, that we have an unction from the holy one and that we know all things. Many Christians are too lzy to pray. They would rather sow seeds. A seed will solve anything they say. That is not true.

I was in a ministry for over twenty something years of my christian and pastoral life but I ran because of the money issues, moral decadence. We have choices as Christians. You can stay in the mess some pastors have created or rise and put your walk in order

And as to your question. Are there real pastors. Yes they are. The Lord will never His children without help. He said I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not rise Against it. Elijah during the reign of ahab said Lord am the only prophet who has bowed to Satan. God told him I have one thousand and one prophets who have not succumb.. There are still many God fearing pastors pray for God to open your eyes to see them.

Lastly, let us keep praying for Pastors. Where I was they started well but something crept in along the line and they bowed to mammonism so now they are ensured by the list of the flesh, pride of life.

You should have stayed and taught the TRUTH if you were not thrown away. Truth is: Many Pastors called themselves to make Money because they saw Church as BUSINESS. If tithes and offering were not taken in Church like it is done at PEACE HOUSE GBOKO, Benue State- Bro. Gbile, you wouldn't see many Churches in town!

mollie12:

No need sir. That's just telling us to jump from frying pan to fire.

A church that has too many freemasonry ties for comfort and that does not believe the bible is the final authority. We'll pass sir. There is no need to reinvent the church: Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.

And the confusion we see in the world today is what Jesus Christ taught right? All I said is investigate the church & see for urself .Dont listen to hearsay

Many re called buh few re choosen.

Pastor Kun: So what happens when the Pastors are busy copying themselves especially in the financial modelling that they have reckoned as the manifestation of success in Ministry? do you still get the pastor you deserve then? No doubt there are a few out there that are not infatuated by money and how to use gimmickry to pull it out of the pockets of the dazzled and mesmerized members, but overall, the true proof of pastoral care is lost.

Jesus asked - 'what do you want me to do for you'?
The pastor is a shepherd and should be ready to lay his life down for the sheep, is that the case of most pastors? Hell no, they haven't cared enough to lay down their unnecessary desire to compete with the corporate world in showcasing the trappings of financial success.
How would they care for the sheep? How would they not have a desire to bring the sheep together to milk/fleece them so they can keep up appearances that 'The Lord is Good All the time'?

The ministry is not an enterprise or business, its a work of sacrifice, not a profit driven, heartless endeavor to maximize returns but a selfless love driven effort to reach out to those that God brings your way with the mind of doing your best in every way to make their lives better because by gathering them, certainly you would be better too.

Instead of turning the blind eye and throwing all these funny ridiculous sayings about, put pressure on your pastor to make him/her more like Jesus and be the good shepherd that cares more for others than for himself, gives to others more than what he gives to himself.

Many of the Things you say are true but that is not what bothers me. I am amazed that you being a pastor, will think that the right place to correct the church is in the world. You spill out the wrongs and "dirty linen" of your own house to unbelievers, atheist, Muslims and all the liks to judge? That bothers me a lot. It's an holier than thou attitude- self righteousness. you don't caste your pearls to swines. What happens in the House should stay in the house and should be settled in the House. The bible frowns against, Christians taking church issues or fellow brothers issue to the world to judge; infact it says is a shameful act . Please read 1 Cor 6:1-8.

It's about time we learnt to stand up for the truth in the church and not to be hypocritical. Same people who shouted " hosanna in the highest" to Jesus, shouted " crucify in" in less than a week later. Its the same christians that tells pastor to ride on, that will come to nairaland to say they are false prophet and then allow all kinds pf people to give unsavoury comment about the work of God.If the church is not doing well or offends you, then it's the church you should tender your case to not the world.

Pastor Kun: So what happens when the Pastors are busy copying themselves especially in the financial modelling that they have reckoned as the manifestation of success in Ministry? do you still get the pastor you deserve then? No doubt there are a few out there that are not infatuated by money and how to use gimmickry to pull it out of the pockets of the dazzled and mesmerized members, but overall, the true proof of pastoral care is lost.

Jesus asked - 'what do you want me to do for you'?
The pastor is a shepherd and should be ready to lay his life down for the sheep, is that the case of most pastors? Hell no, they haven't cared enough to lay down their unnecessary desire to compete with the corporate world in showcasing the trappings of financial success.
How would they care for the sheep? How would they not have a desire to bring the sheep together to milk/fleece them so they can keep up appearances that 'The Lord is Good All the time'?

The ministry is not an enterprise or business, its a work of sacrifice, not a profit driven, heartless endeavor to maximize returns but a selfless love driven effort to reach out to those that God brings your way with the mind of doing your best in every way to make their lives better because by gathering them, certainly you would be better too.

Instead of turning the blind eye and throwing all these funny ridiculous sayings about, put pressure on your pastor to make him/her more like Jesus and be the good shepherd that cares more for others than for himself, gives to others more than what he gives to himself.

Why xtian all the time?
What of islam? When will NL ever discuss imas and alfas in this forum? Or are they saints?

GENUINE MEN OF GOD POPULATE THE KINGDOM OF GOD WHILE PROFESSIONAL MEN OF GOD POPULATE THE CHURCH OF GOD

gbigbega:

Many of the Things you say are true but that is not what bothers me. I am amazed that you being a pastor, will think that the right place to correct the church is in the world. You spill out the wrongs and "dirty linen" of your own house to unbelievers, atheist, Muslims and all the liks to judge? That bothers me a lot. It's an holier than thou attitude- self righteousness. you don't caste your pearls to swines. What happens in the House should stay in the house and should be settled in the House. The bible frowns against, Christians taking church issues or fellow brothers issue to the world to judge; infact it says is a shameful act . Please read 1 Cor 6:1-8.

It's about time we learnt to stand up for the truth in the church and not to be hypocritical. Same people who shouted " hosanna in the highest" to Jesus, shouted " crucify in" in less than a week later. Its the same christians that tells pastor to ride on, that will come to nairaland to say they are false prophet and then allow all kinds pf people to give unsavoury comment about the work of God.If the church is not doing well or offends you, then it's the church you should tender your case to not the world.

which church will you speak the truth that they will not brand you agent of satan? Dont you know that in most churches now the words of the GO is the bible? Oga, we will shout it on the mountains, over the hills and everywhere untill they change or until the guilible brethren recover themselve and walk out of their bondage. Pastor Kun, God bless you plenty.

christemmbassey: which church will you speak the truth that they will not brand you agent of satan? Dont you know that in most churches now the words of the GO is the bible? Oga, we will shout it on the mountains, over the hills and everywhere untill they change or until the guilible brethren recover themselve and walk out of their bondage. Pastor Kun, God bless you plenty.

I am not sure you noticed where I said its ungodliness to do so, and I also gave a bible reference. bible goes against it because accusing church, is doing the work of the devil for him. Bible says this is a sin and any true child of God will desist from sin. Except you are of the devil- a wolf in sheep clothing.

Don't think some of us don't know that many of you who hail stones at the church are not of God. Shout it at the roof top but the gate of hell wil not prevail. ISA 54:17b says " ... Their righteousness if of me, saiths the Lord" what God is saying is, " I am the one who decides if what they are doing is righteous or not, I am the only one who sees their intent and I alone can judge them correctly". When you take the position of condemnation, judgement or accusing, you choose the side of the Devil. Every child of God has just one mandate from God and that is Preach the Gospel. Anything beyond this comes from the devil. I am therefore not surprise that some will talk anyhow against the body of Christ because they are not of us.

gbigbega:


I am not sure you noticed where I said its ungodliness to do so, and I also gave a bible reference. bible goes against it because accusing church, is doing the work of the devil for him. Bible says this is a sin and any true child of God will desist from sin. Except you are of the devil- a wolf in sheep clothing.

Don't think some of us don't know that many of you who hail stones at the church are not of God. Shout it at the roof top but the gate of hell wil not prevail. ISA 54:17b says " ... Their righteousness if of me, saiths the Lord" what God is saying is, " I am the one who decides if what they are doing is righteous or not, I am the only one who sees their intent and I alone can judge them correctly". When you take the position of condemnation, judgement or accusing, you choose the side of the Devil. Every child of God has just one mandate from God and that is Preach the Gospel. Anything beyond this comes from the devil. I am therefore not surprise that some will talk anyhow against the body of Christ because they are not of us.

where did Jesus hide and call the religious leaders of his time, hypocrites and whitewashed graves? Let me tell you, if u dont know, the pastor is NOT the church, he is only a member of the church, 1cor12:27. The OP is not about church, but REAL PASTORS, Jesus knew about FAKE PASTORS/FALSE PROPHETS, that he warned us in Matt7:15-20, and Titus1:10-11 says that their mouth should be stoped, this is even the work of the genuine pastors and every decerning christian. Now my brother tell me what you are defending, thieves(jn10:10), false prophets, traders, money doublers and agents of satan. God bless.

teniyi: We still have Rev King in Prison, also TB Joshua another good Pastor. Lol

I don't know why people see the kind of giving that TB Joshua does as good. this is against the scriptures and it's hypocrisy. Scriptural giving says you should do it in secret and not make it public so that you can receive reward from God. bible says if you do it for men to see, you already have your reward. This is why many genuine men of God don't publicse their giving. It's unscriptural. I know first and that RCCG do a lot of giving, they have orphanage, give people scholarship, train people on handle work, involve in community services like giving food to communities, building village centers for villages, sending relief materilas to people who are involved in any disaster, give free medical attention and drugs to the sick and many more. This is a mandatory aspect of the church day to day runs. You can ask any one who is very close to the church administration to confirm this- I speak first hand.

this givings are not publicised by the church because Jesus says we should not do it and if we are true sons of God we should obey His commandment. It is surprising when I see so called men of God seeking human approval by publicizing the small givings they do. It is unbiblical and every true man of God should know this simple principle.
mathew 6:1-4
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

gbigbega:


I don't know why people see the kind of giving that TB Joshua does as good. this is against the scriptures... Scriptural giving says you should do it in secret and not make it public so that you can receive reward from God. bible says if you do it fr men to see, you already have youR reward. This is why many genuine men of God don't publicse their giving. It's unscriptural. I know first and that RCCG do a lot of giving, the have orphanage, give people scholarship, train people on handle work. Involve, involve in community services like giving food to communities, building village centers for villages, releasing people who are involved an any disaster, give free medical attention and drugs to the sick and many more. This is a mandatory aspect of the church day to day runs. You can ask any one who is very close to the church administration to confirm this- I speak first hand.

this givings are not publicised by the church because Jesus says we should not do it and if we are true sons of God we should obey His commandment. Is surprising when I see so called men of God seeking human approval by publicizing the small givings they do. It is unbiblical and every true man of God should know this simple principle.
mathew 6:1-4
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

what is the dif between this ur post and the OP? I tot u're in support of all the activities of who ever calls himself 'pastor', u even call me names etc, welcome to truth. God bless.

the real pastors are still poor walking on foot from one church to another.

Pastor Kun:

So what happens when the Pastors are busy copying themselves especially in the financial modelling that they have reckoned as the manifestation of success in Ministry? do you still get the pastor you deserve then? No doubt there are a few out there that are not infatuated by money and how to use gimmickry to pull it out of the pockets of the dazzled and mesmerized members, but overall, the true proof of pastoral care is lost.

Jesus asked - 'what do you want me to do for you'?
The pastor is a shepherd and should be ready to lay his life down for the sheep, is that the case of most pastors? Hell no, they haven't cared enough to lay down their unnecessary desire to compete with the corporate world in showcasing the trappings of financial success.
How would they care for the sheep? How would they not have a desire to bring the sheep together to milk/fleece them so they can keep up appearances that 'The Lord is Good All the time'?

The ministry is not an enterprise or business, its a work of sacrifice, not a profit driven, heartless endeavor to maximize returns but a selfless love driven effort to reach out to those that God brings your way with the mind of doing your best in every way to make their lives better because by gathering them, certainly you would be better too.

Instead of turning the blind eye and throwing all these funny ridiculous sayings about, put pressure on your pastor to make him/her more like Jesus and be the good shepherd that cares more for others than for himself, gives to others more than what he gives to himself.

Are you insinuating that you're not a real pastor?

There are no Pastors in Nigeria in the same mould as Reverend Martin Luther King who lead protest marches to fight for the rights of the oppressed minorities in the 1950s. He made his famous "I have a dream speech" in front of nearly half a million blacks and other ethnic minorities in Washington D.C.

Do we hear of any of our own pastors organising demonstrations at places like eagle square in abuja to peacefully protest against the removal of fuel subsidy? No, because in reality they don't give a crap about the suffering masses because they're all just businessmen interested in what they can get from the masses

christemmbassey: where did Jesus hide and call the religious leaders of his time, hypocrites and whitewashed graves? Let me tell you, if u dont know, the pastor is NOT the church, he is only a member of the church, 1cor12:27. The OP is not about church, but REAL PASTORS, Jesus knew about FAKE PASTORS/FALSE PROPHETS, that he warned us in Matt7:15-20, and Titus1:10-11 says that their mouth should be stoped, this is even the work of the genuine pastors and every decerning christian. Now my brother tell me what you are defending, thieves(jn10:10), false prophets, traders, money doublers and agents of satan. God bless.

My brother, I am not defending anybody. What is wrong is wrong and I will not support such. I am only saying that we should correct wrong doing according to biblical principles. Two wrongs can't make a right. As Christians, we have a battle to fight, it's a battle against the devil and not ourselves. It's a thin line that we all easily cross.

In another wrd, no matter what my blood brother does to me, I don't complain to the newspapers or tell the whole world. We settle it inside the house. Reason why their is decay in the church is because those who know the truth are too afraid to say it. we are as guilty has the one taking advantage of our negligence. the Burian Christian in the bible will not accept any doctrine except they have confirmed it is correct. If the church need help, be the help it needs and not complicate it. there are two side, those who cause or contribute to the problem and those who solve it.

christemmbassey: what is the dif between this ur post and the OP? I tot u're in support of all the activities of who ever calls himself 'pastor', u even call me names etc, welcome to truth. God bless.

I did not call u names. Sorry, if u think I did that.

What I just did was correct a notion not condemn and my response was directed at the one who made the error. This is actually my point, we should be bold to stand against what we feel need to change in our respective churches. I will feel offended, If I make mistake as your brother and you go ahead to gossip me without letting me know you opinion about my act. It's tantamount to betrayal.

I did not abuse you and I did not target my response to any specific person.

OLAADEGBU:

Are you insinuating that you're not a real pastor?

He is a fake pastor like those he keep insulting

ChrisGnarly: @50calibre. u say so cos Kumuyi ve started fading down slowly? all of them will soon fade like him and d new fake once will come up again. if ur juju fade what nest u either go and renew or u fade down d new once now come up too. d real once ar there forever they ar there till dy death do them part. is pastor chris (christ embasy) still d same as compare to 5 yrs ago or so?

You are devoid of wisdom and its obvious you are not a christian.

The article below is not my own. I can't remember when I saw it, but I think it would help us to understand what the topic of discussion is all about. It is quite lengthy.

Part One:

I will start by outlining the primary pattern that underpins these modern schemes. Then I will drill down, listing each technique one by one, exposing how they work. Finally, at the end, I will outline the biggest monetary scam of all.

First let's discover the primary pattern behind their methods...

The Multilevel Marketing Pattern

When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market?" - John 2:13-16
We've all been approached at some time by a friend caught up in the hope of multilevel marketing. The business they are pushing is simple, sell toothpaste or web sites or whatever, and then recruit people under you doing the same, taking a cut from their sales. Soon you will be so rich that you can buy a flash European car and give stacks of money to Godly causes. That is the dream. The proof the dream works is embodied in the wealth of the dream's leaders. Do you see how rich our leaders are? They made all their money by following the dream, proving that you can too. Except, that it's a lie.

Coming up is the key to the pattern, are you ready? These leaders did not become wealthy by following the dream, instead they became wealthy by building up a group of people who believe passionately in the dream, and then selling dream-promoting wares to this captive audience. I will say it again, because you need to understand this pattern. They did not become rich by selling toothpaste; they became rich by hyping dream-promoting books, tapes, DVDs, and conferences to their own private market of dream believers. This same pattern is practiced by some Christian leaders and their churches. The dream is the prosperity gospel. Their captive market is their congregation. The products are, well you guessed it: books, tapes, DVDs, and conferences, and t-shirts, and most ominously spiritual rewards and the prevention of spiritual punishments.

These leaders use their faked "success" to promote a distorted gospel which basically says: "tow the line obeying the leaders buying whatever we tell you to buy, and donate money whenever we tell you to donate, and then God will pour riches into your life." They tell us that they became successful by following this dream, but in reality they became rich by sucking money out of those caught up in the buzzing environment where this distorted gospel seems real. Let's drill in and discuss some of the products and techniques they use to line their pockets with money that ought to have stayed with God's people or gone to legitimate good works. You are about to discover how these spiritual vampires feed...

Tip: A clue that you are caught up in one of these churches is if you hear things like, "This is your spiritual home; you can't go to another church. You must be loyal." They are very jealous about protecting their market, and do not want to lose one of their paying customers to another church. Some even try to prevent their patrons leaving by making them sign contracts or "covenants", like a mobile phone company locking you into a two year term. But the Bible does not teach that Christians are bound to their local church organization, this idea is foreign to Scripture.

Books
The first product is the leader's book (often ghost written and fraudulently claimed to be authored by the leader). Let's be honest, many of these books are below par. Like bad business books they have one good idea, if that, and then are padded with motivational sayings and anecdotal stories of how the leader obeyed the dream and so God hosed him down with wealth. The theological content is basically non-existent. These books would tank on Amazon or in a real bookstore, but hyped to their captive market they sell like hot cakes.

DVDs
Next comes the ever popular DVD. Most of which are videos of the leader preaching in his church on a certain topic. Let me ask you a question, is it ethical for a leader who has been paid by his church to prepare and deliver a sermon, to then take that performance and sell it back to his own church members for a healthy profit? I'm not talking here about paying for reproduction costs or the money going into church funds. I'm talking about DVDs being sold at the same cost as a movie DVD and the profit going into the leader's own pocket. And like the books most of these DVD's are awful, not worth the money paid. Minimal content with gallons of fluff. Some are so bad that my friends and I have been in hysterics, like the preacher whose proofs for his latest invented doctrine is to slap the bible he's carrying and say, "It's bible, it's bible!". But, these DVDs are hyped and hyped, and the captive audience buy stacks of them. In the worst money hungry churches you're expected to buy them, and it is noticed if you don't.

Hyped Conferences
The hype for these conferences start months before hand. Other church members look at you strangely if you are thinking about not going. What, you can't afford the huge entry fee? What's wrong with you, don't you love God? Don't you want to be blessed? Don't you want to be successful and wealthy? Don't you want to be part of us? Because you won't be, unless you go to THE CONFERENCE! Each speaker is completely amazing. The next best thing to the second coming.
He's built a church up from nothing to one with thousands of people. She's the most Godly woman in the universe who is the best wife ever with the best kids and the best lifestyle, and she's the pastor's wife too. He's from overseas. She's a corporate CEO. Wow. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be triple awesome! It's going to be mega massive triply awesomely awesome!
The spiritual reward for going is implied to be life changing. The conference fee is nothing, compared to the fire-fighting-bomber worth of blessings and wealth God will dump on your head from upon high.
And Jesus had conferences too, don't forget, like the Sermon on the Mount, where He charged, oh, he didn't charge anything for that spiritual teaching. In fact it was free wasn't it? Hmmm. Well, often the first-movers can't figure out how to monetize their success, we can't blame Jesus for that, can we? Gosh, if only He had some books to sell at the back...

Understand, I'm not against conferences. I'm against overly expensive hyped conferences that deliver hardly any lasting value to their attendees; Conferences that are linked to your standing in your church, and supposedly what God thinks of your commitment to Him. And why are they so expensive? Where does all that money go? Well, in the next section you're going to find out...

Your Counter Strategy: Hire a hotel room, and sit there reading your Bible with a few Christian friends - trust me, spiritually you'll get more out of it and it'll cost less. Realize that you don't need the sugar high of a conference to get closer to God. Deprogram yourself from the idea that conferences are like a spiritual hot-point you just have to be at. See the hype for what it is. Be led by the Spirit to conferences, not pulled by the fear of losing your church friends and God's blessing.

The Christian Speaking Circuit
If you have a big market (congregation) and are willing to let others come and sell there, then your fellow pastors will invite you to come and sell into their markets (congregations) too. The bigger your own market, the larger the markets that will open their doors to you - as long as you are willing to reciprocate. Quid pro quo. There is a Christian speaking circuit, just like there is a motivational speaking circuit. The circuit has no formal structure like say a football league, but rather is like an exclusive network or an old boys club.

Young speaking-cubs sweat blood to be allowed into the circuit. These wannabes practice hard and desperately seek in-circuit patrons because the financial rewards are significant. Revenue flows in four ways: from sales of products, from special "love offerings" taken for the speaker, from various perks, and from the formal payments (honorariums) for speaking. Not all visiting church speakers are on the circuit, the difference is in the amount of money their visit extracts. There is nothing wrong with a speaker's flights and accommodation being paid for, along with the speaker receiving a fair payment for his time. But if the amounts are excessive and the perks extravagant, then that is an unacceptable waste of the Lord's money.

Some speaker's egos are so ripe that they demand business or first class flights, expensive chauffeured cars, five star hotel accommodation, gourmet dining, and the right to bring a small entourage along with them (at the church's expense). Their fees can be enough to buy a family car, and then they have the audacity to expect a special "love offering" to be made for them. The sales of their books and DVD's are carefully planned, and the hosting pastors are expected to hype their products. Of course the hosting pastor will then get the same treatment later at the visiting speaker's church, including his own big fat love offering. If the visiting speaker does not have a church, then the hosting pastor will expect a cut from the speaker's product sales.

These Sunday service speaking engagements are the bread and butter, to the glamour and super-liquidity of the hyped conferences. Only the true speaking-circuit superstars get to keynote at these hype-fests. The speakers at these conferences are like sharks in a feeding frenzy, seeking to boost their profit margins with the over inflated prices of their products. Their speaking fees and perks are why these conferences cost so much, and can sometimes even run at a, ahem, cough, "loss". It is unbelievable what some of these speakers expect from the Body of Christ. I would not like to be in their shoes when they finally meet our Lord, or for that matter anywhere within the blast radius.

Pastor Owned Businesses that Feed Off the Flock
Another way bad pastors extract money from their captive market is to set up a business, and then get their congregation to patronize their business. Businesses like: bookshops, counselling, gyms, production firms, computer consulting, cinemas, business coaching services, supermarkets, building firms, music festivals, music studios, real-estate firms, and many more. The bookshop is the most common, often located inside the church itself. Members in the church who show loyalty to their pastor's businesses are rewarded, often with increased standing in the church. Members who refuse to use the pastor's businesses are frowned upon.

The Honour the Pastor Scam
Money focused churches tend to be run on cultic patterns. One of these cultic patterns is the division of the church into exclusive rings: the all-powerful pastor perched at the centre, the inner-ring of sycophants around him consisting of the pastor's lieutenants and the church's privileged class (the rich, the famous and the very pretty), and the outer-ring of the ordinary folk who would love to be in the inner-ring, but are not. The power of those in the inner-ring is determined by the amount of favour the pastor bestows upon them.

To get more favour the inner-ring will employ many favour-currying measures, one of which is a scam called "Honouring the Pastor". It works this way, the inner-ring will figure out what the pastor would like, say for his birthday. Then the inner-ringers will squeeze the outer-ringers for the money to buy this item. Using this method pastors have been "given": diamond rings for their wives, cash gifts, jet skis, luxury cruises, motorbikes, cars, holidays, boats, and a myriad of other expensive luxury items.

Are the pastors complicit in this game? Of course they are. They couldn't demand the gift openly themselves, but seek plausible deniability by having their inner-ring lieutenants do the work. Of course they could refuse the gift when it is presented, and make it clear that they don't want the Lord's money spent on such things again, but they never do. These pastors exchange their favour, for cash from their congregation.

High Pressure Offerings
Another way the pastor uses his inner-ring to extract cash, is via high pressure offering talks in the church services. One of the church's inner-ring will take the Sunday offering, which in these money focused churches can turn into a mini-sermon. These inner-ring members are competing against each other's past high scores. At stake is their standing with the pastor and hence their standing in the church. If they rake in the cash then their position is secure, but if they score low then no matter what excuses they have they know the pastor will blame them. In the extreme money focused churches it is made known who gave the most and who gave the least, and in these churches the giving will not be in secret but people will be expected to come up the front so that everyone can see how much they give. Or people will be watched to see if they put anything in the offering container as it is passed down the aisles. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. - 2 Corinthians 9:7

Cathedral Building Wars
Like the cathedral building wars in the middle ages where cities and countries vied against each other to build the most impressive cathedral. The pastors of these money focused churches fight to own the most impressive church to top their rival pastors - their egos demand that they are the king of the heap. The most impressive churches require the most magnificent buildings, the most professional entertainment in their services, the best church programs, and the best conferences, the best websites, the best radio and TV programs, and the most members. All this costs a lot of money. And just like in the days of old these self-anointed church kings seek to tax their subjects to fund their private war. Understand that these cultic churches ultimately exist to serve their pastor's insecure egos, and their congregation suffer under their madness. This type of church culture breeds a harsh environment where people are discarded as soon as they are no longer useful. This is a dysfunctional ethos entirely alien to that of Jesus's teachings.

to be contd...

Part Two:

Siphoning Cash into Property
Is it ethical for the pastor (or his company or trust) to own property that the church is paying for? Of course not. Another variation on this scam is the church trust being controlled by the pastor and his family, so they control both the church's cash and property. Some of these pastors are very clever in how they hide the money trail. But ultimately if church money is paying for an asset the pastor owns, except via his wages of course, then it is almost certainly wrong. Imagine the furor if a politician was caught siphoning off government money into property or assets owned by himself.

Excessive Wages
The Bible teaches that the spiritual worker deserves to be paid: The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honour, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." - 1 Timothy 5:17-18 I believe it is reasonable to assume that Paul the Apostle meant only fair wages, not excessive wages, and that Paul would have agreed with what Peter the Apostle wrote: To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers-not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. - 1 Peter 5:1-3

Obviously one of the ways greedy pastors can extract money from God's people is via excessive wages. The amount of which they will often decide themselves, or have conferred on them by their sycophants (via the church board, or the church wages review committee, for example). No honest pastor would have a problem with his congregation knowing how much their church pays him, or at least what range his wage fell in, like say "between $50,000 and $60,000". This is normal. Openness regarding the pastor's stipend has been a practice of the Christian church for hundreds of years, and continues today. Only those pastors who have an excessive wage would be reluctant to let the amount become public knowledge.

If your pastor refuses to be open about his wage then be very suspicious. It is likely he knows that the amount would be considered excessive. If it is excessive, then watch him dodge the issue like a sweaty politician. Be even more suspicious whenever you hear a pastor's wage being justified by comparing him to a CEO. If you hear this CEO nonsense then you can instantly know two things: first, the pastor's wage is massive; second, you are being scammed. A pastor is not a CEO no matter how big his church empire is; a CEO runs a for monetary-profit organization, a pastors serves the people of God - they are not the same thing.

By the way, if the pastor claims to be a CEO, then you must be a shareholder. Shareholders have full rights to the accounts, including how much their "CEO" is earning. Your Counter Strategy: Find out how much your pastor is paid. If he will not reveal the information then stop giving to that church until it is revealed. Especially stop if you hear any of this "CEO" rubbish.

Perks
Expensive leased cars, holidays, clothing allowances, spending money, restaurant meals, hotels, flights, and expense accounts, are some of the perks demanded by these luxury smitten pastors. Some say that if they are preaching the "prosperity gospel", then they have to appear prosperous to "walk their talk". But of course that is a deception. They are using God's money to misrepresent how wealthy they are, to help prove their false teaching works. Despicable.

Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. - 2 Corinthians 4:2

What is worse, many of these churches make their members complicit in this deception. Members are instructed to wear expensive clothes and groom themselves in the manner expected of the rich. They are encouraged to buy (or lease) the most impressive car they can afford. Members are required to appear happy and successful. The excuse given is that the appearance of success breeds success, but this is nonsense, more likely it breeds significant debt. The real reason the leaders want their church members to appear successful is to trick others into thinking that the prosperity dream that they preach really works.

Nepotism
A church isn't a family business you know; it is a family, but it's not a business. Are the pastor's relatives high up in the church? Are they the ones with the most powerful positions? Then that is nepotism. A good church will choose the very best people for the job, while a bad church will reward those closest to the pastor with the lucrative positions of power If you see nepotism, then that is a sign that something is very wrong.

Their Fabricated Tithing Doctrine
This is the big daddy. This is their sacred cow. This is the beating heart of their evil empire. The crown jewel. The Death Star. The one ring to bill them all. The pot of gold. Their matrix (into which they want to plug you). Their Wizard of Oz. Their magic spell. Their special power. Their secret recipe with the eleven herbs and spices. Their Golden Goose. The very air upon which they breathe!

Question this doctrine and watch these money hungry pastors bare their fangs. This is a teaching that they will bear no compromise on. Tithing, or at least their own version of tithing, is their one true love. Here are some bullet points about tithing that these money hungry pastors don't want you to know:
The New Testament Church did not tithe.
The New Testament does not teach tithing for Christians.
Their favourite Malachi verses cannot be used for Christians since Christians are not under the law of Moses. Abraham's one off tithe of his war booty did not set up a precedent for Christians to regularly tithe their income. The version of tithing they teach cannot be found in Scripture (see below).
The "Storehouse" in Malachi cannot be equated to your local church organization. There are plenty of rich (money wise) Christians who do not tithe. This would be impossible if their version of tithing was true. The New Testament teaching is that you decide how much to give, and there are no rules about where it goes. You cannot be compelled to give.

It may come as a surprise to learn that their tithing doctrine is a combination of twisted scriptures and wishful thinking, as opposed to solid Biblical exegesis reflecting a central thrust of New Testament teaching. Here is their tithing doctrine stated in a nutshell:

"Christians must give ten percent of their gross income only to their church organization. If they do, then God will bless them for any offerings they make to the church organization beyond this ten percent. But if they do not give ten percent gross, then they are stealing from God and God will curse them." There are variations of this teaching, and sometimes it is called a "principle", but the above definition contains the core essence of this doctrine. It is vital to grasp that tithing is not for Christians. Tithing was part of the old law (of Moses) which was fulfilled (completed) by Jesus. You know that Christians are not under the law of Moses don't you?

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. - Romans 7:6

Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. - Galatians 2:16

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." - Galatians 3:10

New wine should not be put into old wine skins, nor should new unshrunk cloth be used to patch an old garment; if you think you need to obey the law of tithing then you need to obey the whole law (or you will be cursed, Galatians 3:10).

What is more, this tithing doctrine they teach isn't found in either the New or Old Testament. Tithing in the Old Testament does not match what these pastors preach - this unique tithe teaching is of their own invention.

Tip: If you are struggling to feed your family or buy them clothes, then understand that you do not need to give to the church. You can still do so if you choose, but you should not feel under compulsion since your family is more important. Also understand that if you are poor then that does not mean God is cursing you, or that you have done something wrong; this is an erroneous teaching these greedy men promote to guilt you into giving. Remember, your duty is to your family first. If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. - 1 Timothy 5:8

Tip: Churches that push this erroneous tithing doctrine will often try to enforce tithing via written agreements (called covenants), and also by monitoring what people give (so they can compel them to give more if they are not meeting the ten percent target). First, grasp that these "covenants" are illegitimate and not worth the paper they are printed on, because they contain false doctrine (like tithing) and set up the pastors as a false authority over you. God would not be party to a covenant that contains falsehoods, therefore God was not party to the covenant you were pressured to sign, therefore you are free from this burden. It is as if you never signed it. Second, recording what you give and using that information to pressure you to give more is wrong, the Bible implies that our giving is best done in secret so that only we and God know what we gave. Don't go to a church where they monitor what you give. (note: some churches voluntarily let you record what you have given via a numbered envelope system for tax purposes. Done correctly, no one in the church will know what you gave. There is nothing wrong with this kind of recording.)

Your Counter Strategy: Stop giving to that church until they change their ways. That doesn't mean to stop giving to Godly works, we would encourage you to give as the Holy Spirit prompts you and as you decide. But it is valid to protest false doctrine by refusing to fund the system that promotes that false doctrine.

The Carrot and the Stick
These pastors are not only money hungry, but often power hungry too. They want to be both pastor and master. They commit the sin of the Pharisees and appoint themselves as middle men between God and you. They seek to replace the Holy Spirit in your life. They "lord it over" their flocks. Using the connection they claim to have with God they threaten you with the stick of spiritual curses if you disobey them, and dangle the carrot of spiritual blessings if you comply. They seek to dominate your life; often implying that they have say in where you work, where you fellowship, who you marry, and of course, when, where, and how much you should give. This is a false spiritual authority not supported by Scripture. In fact I believe it to be quite devilish (the desire to control and dominate others).

In these pastor's prosperity teaching, obeying the pastor and giving money are the two pillars necessary for a successful Christian life. If you sit back and think about it, you will quickly see what a con it is. These men want to be at the head of everything, they want to dominate you, they want to be seen as the big man, and some even secretly desire adoration (almost worship). This is the opposite of true Christian leadership:

Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves. - Luke 22:24-27

I call God as my witness that it was in order to spare you that I did not return to Corinth. Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, because it is by faith you stand firm. - 2 Corinthians 1:23-24 Jesus called them together and said, "You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. - Mark 10:42-44. Threatening people with curses if they do not obey or donate is spiritual extortion. It is contrary to the nature of grace and the person of Jesus.

Your Counter Strategy: Don't be afraid of these men. Ignore their bluster. Grow a backbone and stand up to them. And if you give, then give to honour God and not out of fear of punishment or greed for financial gain. Memorize this verse: Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. - 2 Corinthians 9:7

Summary
I believe many church goers would be shocked if they could comprehend the real attitude their pastor has towards them. From my experience with both the cults and these money focused churches, it is my impression that instead of being looked upon with love, these pastors see their congregation as farm animals to be milked. It is my prayer that this article will set you free from this kind of spiritual bondage. I hope now you will be able to spot this counterfeit Christian life and be able to transition into a closer walk with Jesus; a walk built on love, trust and grace, not fear.

To summarize what we have learnt about the methods money hungry pastors use to feed off their flock: We discovered the multilevel marketing pattern that these often ex-salesmen (not theologians) model their churches. We examined some of the products they sell into their captive market like books and DVDs. We unhyped the hyped conferences, and exposed the Christian speaking circuit. Next we talked about how spiritually dishonest pastors set up their own businesses that their followers are expected to patronize. After that came the scam of "honouring the pastor" with gifts of luxury items. We delved into the high pressure offering mini-sermons that are designed to guilt people into giving. We examined how most of the money gained is used to build the pastor's modern day cathedrals, projects that their fragile egos demand. We exposed the scam of siphoning the church's cash into properties and assets owned by the pastor. We covered the obvious points of excessive wages and extravagant perks, and that was followed by the not so obvious problem of nepotism. Their big daddy came second to last - their fabricated tithing doctrine was exposed for what it is, a fraud. Finally we discussed the spiritual carrot and stick of the false authority that the pastors claim.

Realize that a number of churches follow the patterns that this article exposes. However there are many good churches who do not practice these methods. If you have been hurt by these practices then feel free to give up on these twisted money-focused environments, but please do not give up on Jesus. Men who peddle the word of God for profit are not sent from God?

Feel free to think this one through for yourself.

End.

REVOLUTNIS:

He is a fake pastor like those he keep insulting

Pastor Kun certainly sounds like a pot calling a kettle black.

OLAADEGBU:

Pastor Kun certainly sounds like a pot calling a kettle black.

You mean Pastor Kumuyi

@RanchOwner
Pls who is the author of the article you put up and is there a web link it can be located on?

I found it very enlightening

Pastor Kun:

You mean Pastor Kumuyi

I mean you Kunle Oshob who also doubles as fake Pastor Kun. It's only those who have no respect for their elders nor are accountable to anyone or authority that would make such statement as yours.

OLAADEGBU:

I mean you Kunle Oshob who also doubles as fake Pastor Kun. It's only those who have no respect for their elders nor are accountable to anyone or authority that would make such statement as yours.

It still remains an established fact that Kumuyi teaches a lot of false doctrines even though I personally respect him as an elderly person. Doctrines such as not watching TV in the eighties, the popular fraudulent tithe doctrine, deceiving believers into not taking drugs e.t.c are some of the false teachings he is known for amongst several others. It's not too late for him to change though as Zombies like you can never change if he doesn't change.

Pastor Kun:

It still remains an established fact that Kumuyi teaches a lot of false doctrines even though I personally respect him as an elderly person. Doctrines such as not watching TV in the eighties, the popular fraudulent tithe doctrine, deceiving believers into not taking drugs e.t.c are some of the false teachings he is known for amongst several others. It's not too late for him to change though as Zombies like you can never change if he doesn't change.

The onus is on you to provide the evidence that Kumuyi "teaches a lot of false doctrines" in the absence of this you remain the false prophet that you are. The apostle Peter describes your characteristics in these latter days:

"But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire".

(2 Peter 2:10-22).

This is to you fake pastors and those who follow you blindly by liking your posts.

OLAADEGBU:

The onus is on you to provide the evidence that Kumuyi "teaches a lot of false doctrines" in the absence of this you remain the false prophet that you are. The apostle Peter describes your characteristics in these latter days:.

Story !!! The false teachings of deeper life/Kumuyi I listed in my previous posts are in public domain so the onus is actually on you to prove he didn't teach the falsehoods but of course you know he did hence your resorting to smear campaign to try and discredit me.