musKeeto:

To make it worse, they claim he can interact with us through 'prayers' and a 'still small voice'.. yet everyone of them hears differently (consider the tithe and trinity issues)... isn't that proof that it's all in their head?

plaetton:

I can make the same argument.
How can a thinking human being believe that god just jumped from out nowhere with being created from another, and then created the universe?
Get my drift?

plaetton:
Again again and again, if you believe with certainty that someone put the universe here, but you simply cannot explain who that someone is or the origin of that someone, then that belief is silly.

plaetton:
That is my point.
How can you maintain that the origin of god is beyond human comprehension and yet believe that the same invisible god exists?.

musKeeto:

To make it worse, they claim he can interact with us through 'prayers' and a 'still small voice'.. yet everyone of them hears differently (consider the tithe and trinity issues)... isn't that proof that it's all in their head?

Ozegbe:
true. Agnostic are actually weak atheists

musKeeto:
Let's say God created the universe. Does he have any other functions? The earth's still spinning, you know..

musKeeto:
Well, just for the sake of argument and not wanting to lose, the 'blue horse' created me.. or ooman's pig..

musKeeto:
Same thing I could ask about your GOD? When he said let there be light, was he tired of living in darkness?

musKeeto:
Lol. So cryptic.

Evil Brain:

Oh for fück's sake, not this nonsense argument again!

Read this post slowly, so you understand. Natural selection is not a random choice. In fact it is the opposite of random. It is a natural way of picking the most viable option out of countless possibilities.

You mentioned 30 million genes which seperate us from apes. It is true that any one of these genes could become mutated, but what you haven't recognized is that most of those mutations would result in a non-viable organism. Over 75% of all humans ever conceived end up as miscarriages mostly due to genetic mutations.

Of those mutants that survive long enough to be born, most would have diseases that render them sterile or prevent them from reaching adulthood or sèxual maturity. sickle cell disease is a mutation of one single base pair (out of 3 billion) yet even with the best medical care, most sufferers don't live past early adulthood, and very few get to have children.

Only a tiny fraction of your 4^30 million possible mutations could produce a viable adult human capable of reproducing, and that is where natural selection comes in. Living things are constantly competing against each other and its the strong that survive. If you happen to carry a mutation that puts you at a disadvantage to others (eg one that gives you a big ugly nose) you'll be less likely to have children because only ugly girls who can't get normal looking guys will be willing to slèèp with you. And if any kids you manage to have inherit your big nose gene, they'll have the same problem as well. With time your big nose gene will become very rare or die out completely.

On the other hand, the genes that gives you an advantage over others will do the opposite. Imagine a gene that makes African children resistant to malaria. With each generation, more malaria resistant babies will survive, while more of their "normal" mates die. As long as the mutation doesn't have any major disadvantages, it will become more and more common until it eventually becomes the new normal.

And that's the short version of how natural selection, genetic drift and evolution work.

Any questions?

Niflheim: @muskeeto,you are so correct,the same god cannot be talking to all pastors and yet they come to us with different messages, these are symptoms of schizophrenia!!!

striktlymi:

Yes! You are right and I agree with the above but what we can't shake is the fact that the Universe is here and someone or something must have put it here...that someone or something is who/what I call God.



An inability to explain something because of incomplete knowledge does not make it silly...Science cannot tell us the how, where, why, or when (exactly when) of humans...does this make science silly?



There are a lot of things that are beyond human comprehension but it does not mean that those things do not exist.

striktlymi:

Yes! You are right and I agree with the above but what we can't shake is the fact that the Universe is here and someone or something must have put it here...that someone or something is who/what I call God.



An inability to explain something because of incomplete knowledge does not make it silly...Science cannot tell us the how, where, why, or when (exactly when) of humans...does this make science silly?



There are a lot of things that are beyond human comprehension but it does not mean that those things do not exist.

kambo:

i'm not conversant enuff in d medical/scientifc field to make
sound enuff deductions as i wud like to. A more informed person wud run rings around me.
But even wt dat theyre some logical arguments dat cud b proposed..
Point is to b able to poke holes at
som scientific claims a groundg or sufficient understndg of d scientfc foundation of d partclr field e.g genetcs must b acquired.
U agree wt these.
Same princple applies scripturally, to make an assertion about d bible God, groundg in the framework of the cosmic story must b acquired without wich ur liable to fire lopsided , perverted arguments while contestg ,in pride, for its verity. If i say for example theres is no atg,no dna etc. No dna permutation process frm wich only a small percentage survive , then we cant even reason out. In d same way if atheists deny some given bible facts like man is a Spirit and theres a spirit world.. Reasong bcmes impossible on many issues . Because these assertions are d buildg blocks for higher thoughts like ATG is d buildg block for dna.

plaetton: [/b]

The big difference here is that no scientists claims a monopoly of scientific knowledge. Scientific knowledge is open to everyone, irrespective of religious affiliation. What is true to one scientists have to be proven to other scientists as well as non-scientists.
By the same token, if an atheists can read the scriptures, he should also be able to see same things and hear the same voices or spirits that a so-called mog can do.
Why not?
Why can't I hear god speaking or the holy ghost speaking to me? Why Do others and I see only fraud , manipulations and delusions in the same scriptures?
Is there some kind of mental deficiency among atheists or are the scriptures themselves deficient?

Isn't recourse to "spiritual principles" a copout of last resort?
If I ask you to explain spiritual principles in detail, you would then tell me that they are things beyond human comprehension, just like god.
Haba!

Dux-01:
how will you be able to hear him when he speaks when You don't believe that he EVEN EXISTS. you want proof meanwhile that bible says without FAITH(which i think you dnt believe in)you cannot please him.you want to walk by sight but he is sayin You walk by faith.

plaetton: [/b]

Things like?

plaetton:

Do you agree then that god is simply a notion?
Whether a grand notion or a silly notion, but nevertheless, a notion?.

Dux-01:
how will you be able to hear him when he speaks when You don't believe that he EVEN EXISTS. you want proof meanwhile that bible says without FAITH(which i think you dnt believe in)you cannot please him.you want to walk by sight but he is sayin You walk by faith.

musKeeto:
Same faith that leads the Muslim to Islam, the Christian to Christ, the Hindu to Krishna, the Yorubaman to Oduduwa, the Igbo to Chineke...

smh...

Niflheim: @striktlymi,why were you clapping for Nikkyshyne when you yourself knew that she failed woefully in the area of Freewill(It does not exist)

Niflheim:
and worshipping something just because it created you(The company called irobot in the US,makes robots to help people and not for the purpose of worshipping

Niflheim:
people)...............................................................@striktlymi,are you trying to promote ignorance here?

striktlymi:

Hey musky,

Nah men...that is man for you!

striktlymi:

Let's have the human brain for starters...

Ozegbe:
@striktlymi am just curious to know if you go to church every sunday, clapping, singing and dancing and even praying to god in the name of jesus? Am asking because you seem enlightened enough to be doing dat.

Dux-01:
how will you be able to hear him when he speaks when You don't believe that he EVEN EXISTS. you want proof meanwhile that bible says without FAITH(which i think you dnt believe in)you cannot please him.you want to walk by sight but he is sayin You walk by faith.

striktlymi:

The bold got me laughing real hard...it is impossible to miss the sarcasm...

plaetton:

We know the human brain. we touch it, we experiment with it, we know what it does and we have an idea, although limited, of how it works.
We know what areas of the brain controls what bodily functions.
The brain is not an abstract notion. It is a real physical object.

striktlymi:

If I were an examiner and you the examinee...I would have scored the above 95%...

Some would say...what the heck...it's still an A+ but others would come knocking at my door demanding an explanation for the shortfall...

Well plaetton you are correct but what lead us here is the inability of man to comprehend a lot of things which we know exist...the brain holds a lot of mysteries that man is yet to understand...

plaetton:

Bingo! my friend.
Faith is the key word here.
Faith is what seperates facts from fables.
Is Faith not a product of the mind?

In simple words, through faith the mind reconfigures itself to believe in and to perceive god, right?

So when an atheist says that god is a product of the mind, why would you argue with that assertion?

striktlymi:

Hi there Dux,

Don't you think that it is not necessary for one to believe in God first before one experience him?

Logicboy03:


Just shut up. The simple point is that the brain is physical not an abstract

All your babbling about mystery is irrelevant.

Ozegbe:
you have not answered my question. You shouldnt be on that side of the road. By the way would you also mind telling me the part of the bible you believe in? Sowie, i actually meant the church you attend

striktlymi:


...aren't you derailing your own thread? Let's not make this about me.


May be it's best I go back to the sidelines and just watch...I am sure LB will be happy with that.

Dux-01:
well,we may say it is not but If God says so and he is almighty i just have to obey.it is just like this:God says we must be pure in heart to make heaven.some may argue but if God says so and he is omniscient i suppose he should have his reasons.

Logicboy03:





No......I need you here so that I can debunk you.