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Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? - Religion - Nairaland

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Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Ozegbe(m): 9:17pm On May 10, 2013
We all know that the difference between atheists and religious folks is the believe system. One accepts all by faith and the other require physical and beyond doubt evidence to accept a claim.
Now I ask; what difference are atheists (ozegbe, logicboy, muskeeto, dawkin, ooman and others ) from the famous “doubting” Thomas? Thomas knew Jesus while he was alive. He walked with him, ate with him, preach along with him and saw him raise the dead (am sure he wasn't too surprised, since someone has done that before (elijah)), but when Jesus died and rose up by himself, a phenomenon he had never heard of before, he doubted.

Let me break down my points

In John 20:24[b] “but Thomas, one of the twelve disciples of Jesus was not with them when Jesus came”.[/b]
This can be likening unto me too and other atheists, when Jesus came I was not in the world then; I hadn’t been born…..
In verse 25a it says ” the other disciples therefore said unto him, we have seen the lord”

This is a clear example of the entire god representative we see in the world today. The pastors, bishops, prophet, christian apologist and their likes, telling us they have seen the lord, they've heard from god, god spoke with them directly, jesus touch them, they heard a small voice, a man on the cross visited them and so on like that.

In 25b Thomas answered them like we atheists keep answering them and said “ except I see in his hands the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe” this was somebody who supposedly saw jesus rot miracles, howbeit me who haven’t seen one.
Lets continue…….verse 26 [8] “after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came jesus, the doors been shut, and stood in the midst, and said, peace be unto you”[/b]
Jesus came after 8 days to clear Thomas’s doubt, but he wont come to me after 3 years of yeaning to see him and clear my own doubts.

And finally….
In verse 27 “then saith he to thomas, reach hither my finger, and behold my hands and reach hither my hands and thrust it into my side and be not faithless, but believing”

Here jesus clearly provided hard, undeniable physical evidence for Thomas to believe. Thomas after this believed totally and worship god and am sure he would be in heaven afterwards.
This is exactly what the atheists want and this is what I want too. Am i different from Thomas? If yes, how? Why won’t Jesus provide me with physical evidence of himself? I too like Thomas want to believe.
The only thing we ever get is faith, gods representatives on earth telling us the same thing like Thomas was told over and over again, but like Thomas unless I see him physically I will not believe.

If jesus could show to Thomas who even saw him perform miracles, hard physical evidence of his ascension, then he shouldn't punish me for asking same. if god will punish me and not Thomas for demanding physical evidence, then he isn't a just god that Christian’s claim he is, because I too like Thomas want evidence.

Christians do you think its fair enough for jesus to show me physical evidence too?
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by An0nimus: 9:52pm On May 10, 2013
*following*

1 Like

Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 10:09pm On May 10, 2013
Hallo Oze,

The major difference between the Atheist (irrespective of the brand of Atheism) and Thomas is that Thomas believe God exist but Atheists either reject this belief or out-rightly hold the opinion that God does not exist...

Thomas never doubted the existence of God but the resurrection of Christ...


As per your question: I don't see anything wrong if a sincere Atheist asks for proof before he can be a Christian...


#There exist more than enough evidence to support God.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by tobechi74: 10:20pm On May 10, 2013
wen u examinee it critically,we are all doubters in different ways

a judge needs an evidennce to sentence a notorus hardened ex convict to jail

we all need proof one way or the other.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by HumbledbYGrace(f): 10:38pm On May 10, 2013
An0nimus: *following*
I think I know the reason why...
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by An0nimus: 11:10pm On May 10, 2013
HumbledbYGrace: I think I know the reason why...
Do tellsmiley
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by HumbledbYGrace(f): 11:28pm On May 10, 2013
An0nimus:
Do tellsmiley
you know so give ur brain something to work on
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Ozegbe(m): 11:33pm On May 10, 2013
striktlymi:


#There exist more than enough evidence to support God.

when you talk about evidence, are you referring to the complexity of the universe? the supposedly yet unexplained natural phenomenon? and other faith based evidence. you said there exist more than enough evidence to support god's existence? i don't think you read the OP. I will assume you didn't read the OP.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by wiegraf: 5:47am On May 11, 2013
Op, I get what you're trying to do and it is indeed sensible in some lights, but just a few (when did the post become this long?) notes.

I wouldn't say you speak for all atheists or even the majority. We're a disparate group, only common denominator: no god. Yes, there are trends one would usually find among atheists, but again, I'm not sure you speak for the majority.

For one, to clarify, evidence need not be physical per say. If it is, better. But just physical evidence on its own (which might seem like a lot) is not enough, it must be logical as well. One cannot divide by zero regardless of whatever nonsense one spews. So, how did this bit of evidence get to us? Is so and so possible, how and why? etc. Questions like these and more have to be answered. Proving the existence of a god might not even require (direct) physical evidence, logic alone might be enough, but it must be completely convincing in such a case.

I wouldn't say I want to believe, why? I can live very fine without the concept of a tyrant like yahweh, or even the more benign version of gods, looking over my shoulder. Many would say 'but you need a purpose', I consider that patently foolish. I'm sentient, I can define my own purposes, just like any alleged gods would be capable of defining theirs.

Religious themselves call it 'free will' methinks, they even make a big deal about it. Yet when one chooses to use said will, and common sense, to not believe in dog they get their pants all twisted in knots. (Like you've sort of observed with your op. They see no problem when they themselves, or others, use the same tools to toss out Thor and Santa though, sort of like the case of oga thomas. Hypocrisy?). So long as my purposes (and actions) do not infringe on the rights of others, it's not their business. Forcing a purpose on one (in this context) is slavery, simple.

So, if indeed gods existed, I would owe them nothing. I did not ask to be created.

Consider my kids would owe me nothing as well, after their childhood anything further is very much left to them (or us). If they think continuing the relationship is worth it, cool. If not, I might be disappointed, but they definitely do not owe me anything. If I were a terrible parent I would also expect them to challenge me when they can, after all they were my responsibility. I brought them into this world, they didn't ask me for a favor. Same thing with any gods, even if they did show up they would have a lot of explaining to do before I 'worship' or whatever them.

Btw, the nature of belief sef. One cannot just start believing in Santa at will. Try...

Etc, etc, etc, etc..

Again, just notes, so people don't misunderstand a few things and also some clarity. You're playing on their own terms (by considering their zombeism), which is cool, but they have silly terms. That 'evidence' might have been good enough for thomas, but it certainly does not mean the rest of us should be satisfied with something similar as proof of its existence, or that we should slavishly respect/worship it even if evidence did show up. Actions aren't good or evil just because dog said so, regardless of their whargarbl
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 6:22am On May 11, 2013
Ozegbe:

when you talk about evidence, are you referring to the complexity of the universe? the supposedly yet unexplained natural phenomenon? and other faith based evidence. you said there exist more than enough evidence to support god's existence? i don't think you read the OP. I will assume you didn't read the OP.



That is Striklymi for you. Instead of addressing any op that challenges his religious dogma, he chooses to take the thread into another tangent
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 6:37am On May 11, 2013
Yawn.. Wetin concern me concern doubting Thomas?

And for those who claim the universe is God's creation... Was that his only function? To create the world?

For all we know, the Big Bang may have killed him.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Ozegbe(m): 7:54am On May 11, 2013
musKeeto: Yawn.. Wetin concern me concern doubting Thomas?

And for those who claim the universe is God's creation... Was that his only function? To create the world?

For all we know, the Big Bang may have killed him.
lmao
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by mazaje(m): 8:54am On May 11, 2013
striktlymi: Hallo Oze,

#There exist more than enough evidence to support God.

And you still told me on the other thread that you can not provide evidence to support your god, no?. . . .Give me one evidence to show that any god exist on its own. . .Don't point to other things, just a single evidence that your god exist on its own is all i ask. . .
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by 3cassavasticks: 9:06am On May 11, 2013
mazaje:

And you still told me on the other thread that you can not provide evidence to support your god, no?. . . .Give me one evidence to show that any god exist on its own. . .Don't point to other things, just a single evidence that your god exist on its own is all i ask. . .
I am a theist. Let me answer you. The universe has a creator because it has a beginning and works according to an intelligible order.
If this order is not enough evidence for you, then please show me something that began to exist and is intelligently arranged without anything causing it to be that way.
If you deny this without providing relevant counter-evidence, you are either a dishonest liar or simply a fool

P/s I am not a muslim, christian pagan, hindu, etc. I am simply believe in God. (i noticed you guys like putting people in boxes in this forum)

1 Like

Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 9:08am On May 11, 2013
mazaje:

And you still told me on the other thread that you can not provide evidence to support your god, no?. . . .Give me one evidence to show that any god exist on its own. . .Don't point to other things, just a single evidence that your god exist on its own is all i ask. . .

Hallo Mazaje,

What thread do you refer to? I am pretty sure you are definitely taking things out of context.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 9:09am On May 11, 2013
Ozegbe:

when you talk about evidence, are you referring to the complexity of the universe? the supposedly yet unexplained natural phenomenon? and other faith based evidence. you said there exist more than enough evidence to support god's existence? i don't think you read the OP. I will assume you didn't read the OP.


Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 5:23pm On May 11, 2013
3cassava sticks:
I am a theist. Let me answer you. The universe has a creator because it has a beginning and works according to an intelligible order.
If this order is not enough evidence for you, then please show me something that began to exist and is intelligently arranged without anything causing it to be that way.
If you deny this without providing relevant counter-evidence, you are either a dishonest liar or simply a fool

P/s I am not a muslim, christian pagan, hindu, etc. I am simply believe in God. (i noticed you guys like putting people in boxes in this forum)


A beginning therefore a creator? FAIL! Poor reasoning

Define intelligible order? Why is it intelligible? Because you say so?
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by menmustwank: 5:57pm On May 11, 2013
Logicboy03:


A beginning therefore a creator? FAIL! Poor reasoning

Define intelligible order? Why is it intelligible? Because you say so?
Olodo, i have been waiting for dummies like you to come and display your foolishness.

so you think the universe doesn't have intelligible order in it but you can make intelligible conversations in an unintelligible universe?

number two: so your conversation has a beginning but nothing caused it? it didn't originate from anything? it just appeared?

you be original mumu o!

Show me something, (just one thing) that began to exist and is intelligently arranged without anything causing it to be that way.

1 Like

Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 6:03pm On May 11, 2013
menmustwank:
Olodo, i have been waiting for dummies like you to come and display your foolishness.

so you think the universe doesn't have intelligible order in it but you can make intelligible conversations in an unintelligible universe?

number two: so your conversation has a beginning but nothing caused it? it didn't originate from anything? it just appeared?

you be original mumu o!


You first make the assumption that human speech is intelligible.....imagine a telepathic communication

The earth has a beginning....does it personally have a creator?
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by menmustwank: 6:13pm On May 11, 2013
Logicboy03:
You first make the assumption that human speech is intelligible.....imagine a telepathic communication
assumption? so you are not intelligible? As stupid as you are, I can still understand you. You still possess intelligibility because you are carefully arranging alphabets in an order or else we won't be able to communicate.


The earth has a beginning....does it personally have a creator?
the printed book was as a result of reactions in the printer, does it mean that the book didn't have a personal creator?

You FAIL. Try again
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 6:17pm On May 11, 2013
menmustwank:
assumption? so you are not intelligible? As stupid as you are, I can still understand you. You still possess intelligibility because you are carefully arranging alphabets in an order or else we won't be able to communicate.
It's intelligible to you because you're familiar with the language.. Else all these font would just be weird diagrams.. ever read Japanese scripts?
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by menmustwank: 6:23pm On May 11, 2013
musKeeto:
It's intelligible to you because you're familiar with the language.. Else all these font would just be weird diagrams.. ever read Japanese scripts?
Don't be an idiot please. intelligibility does not depend on your ability but on the thing itself. Japanese is still intelligible whether you understand it or not.
That someone is blind does not mean that light does not exist. Light and the science of photons will still exist even if the whole world was blind. Use your brain. I'm assuming you have one.

You have failled too. Try again
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 6:28pm On May 11, 2013
menmustwank:
Don't be an idiot please. intelligibility does not depend on your ability but on the thing itself.
You're a lost cause.. So the symbol 'A' would be the first letter of the alphabet all by itself, with or without human influence.. Language just popped out of nowhere and became intelligent all on its own? ... wetin person no go hear from these new age trolls?
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by menmustwank: 6:33pm On May 11, 2013
Beautiful! enhe, your brain seems to have started working

musKeeto:
You're a lost case.. So the symbol 'A' would be the first letter of the alphabet all by itself, with or without human influence.. Language just popped out of nowhere and became intelligent all on its own? ... wetin person no go hear from these new age trolls?
So you now know that it is impossible for something to begin to exist and be intelligible without an intelligent cause making it that way abi.

Congratulation, you have pass your first exam.

Let us now wait for your mumu brother logicdunce to catch up.

2 Likes

Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 6:39pm On May 11, 2013
menmustwank: Beautiful! enhe, your brain seems to have started working


So you now know that it is impossible for something to begin to exist and be intelligible without an intelligent cause making it that way abi.

Congratulation, you have pass your first exam.

Let us now wait for your mumu brother logicdunce to catch up.

Good twisting...
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by menmustwank: 6:42pm On May 11, 2013
musKeeto:

Good twisting...
facepalm.

I can now see that your problem is not logic it is fanatic dogma.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Nobody: 6:56pm On May 11, 2013
menmustwank:
facepalm.

I can now see that your problem is not logic it is fanatic dogma.

Yawn.. Are you Anony in disguise?

Let's do a quick review, shall we.. expose your disingenuity

musKeeto:
It's intelligible to you because you're familiar with the language.. Else all these font would just be weird diagrams.. ever read Japanese scripts?


menmustwank:
Don't be an idiot please. intelligibility does not depend on your ability but on the thing itself. Japanese is still intelligible whether you understand it or not.


menmustwank:
So you now know that it is impossible for something to begin to exist and be intelligible without an intelligent cause making it that way abi.

I need no further comments to make my point.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by menmustwank: 7:04pm On May 11, 2013
musKeeto:

Yawn.. Are you Anony in disguise?

Let's do a quick review, shall we.. expose your disingenuity





I need no further comments to make my point.
I need no further further comments i have made my points.



let us now wait for your boyfriend to ome and display his own mumurism. Your own idiocy is enough for now.



btw who is anony (you have been trying to put me in many boxes since i came on this forum).
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Blacklight: 7:12pm On May 11, 2013
"That which begins to exist" - a vacuous, sleight of hand attempt to introduce "that which always existed" and keep it outside scrutiny.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by menmustwank: 7:14pm On May 11, 2013
Blacklight: "That which begins to exist" - a vacuous, sleight of hand attempt to introduce "that which always existed" and keep it outside scrutiny.
another idiot speaks.
Re: Are Atheist Any Different From The "Famous Doubting Thomas"? by Blacklight: 7:27pm On May 11, 2013
menmustwank:
another idiot speaks.

A Bingo relentlessly advancing his lunacy...watery shite!

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