shdemidemi:

Wrong, they have the same source but two distinct messages

Pauls message was to the body of Christ which ends at rapture, Peters message was to the kingdom of Israel which will be very much applicable at tribulation.

I LAFF IN REVELATIONS

Bidam: I LAFF IN REVELATIONS

Bidam...what is funny na

shdemidemi:

God never expected man to fulfill the law he gave man through Moses, rather, God gave man the law to make all man guilty before Him.
ROMANS 3:19
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Of course He knew that man couldn't fulfill the Law. That was the point. Without that Covenant, man would never have known that something was wrong with him. By making that Covenant with man, God told man that he was incapable of doing good.

Looking at sin from the eye of the law is like calling God a liar, by saying you can be righteous by your deeds and works.

Honestly, I don't understand the above.

debosky:

The bold is indeed what I am trying to say.

Ok. In that case, you were only upholding what I was saying.

Not at all - which is why I clarified in my second post that my thoughts were not well expressed initially - I have edited my first post to reflect this. The intent behind setting off in the car is ultimately to get to New York. Or put differently, you wouldn’t get in the car if you didn’t intend to get to New York.

The former was actually the bolded and I was not even that right. Honestly, I was not sure what your posts were saying. It seemed a lot like you were insisting on the latter most of the time.

My intent was to amplify what you said really, and then drill down to the detail which is where we may understand things differently.

Forgive me for failing to realize it sooner.

We are in agreement on this.

I think so too.

I don’t think we disagree in this sense - what we actually differ on is what you consider as God’s Demands.

Alright then.

The nub of the issue here is the how these demands are perceived from the Old Covenant. Are these Demands equivalent the literal requirements of the Law (e.g. physical circumcision, not wearing clothes made of wool and linen woven together, tithing of agric. produce to the Levitical Priesthood, etc.) ? Or is the Law a foreshadow which includes elements that have been set aside?

That is beyond the scope of this thread. I think I'll start different threads dealing with some of the more popular ones like the Priesthood along with all that is associated with it.

Of course, it can be carried on here, but I want to keep the thread as focused as possible so that it won't weary readers.

debosky: Are these Demands equivalent the literal requirements of the Law (e.g. physical circumcision, not wearing clothes made of wool and linen woven together, tithing of agric. produce to the Levitical Priesthood, etc.) ? Or is the Law a foreshadow which includes elements that have been set aside?

Although I said that the above is beyond the scope of this thread, I did say something touching it in my opening posts. What more I will say in those new threads is basically the detailed play-out of the New Covenant in areas of our lives that the Old Covenant previously addressed with ordinances and rituals.

See below for what I've said concerning it.

Ihedinobi: This New Nature comes with desires and power to fulfill God's demands which are made known under the Old Covenant. So, everyone who receives It finds themselves wanting to do good and increasingly growing intolerant of evil. Such people also find that they have the enablement to see the spiritual realities and eternal principles hidden within the symbols and the rituals of the Old Covenant. They get beyond the shell to the meat of the matter.

It is of them that Jesus spoke saying that a good scribe schooled in the Kingdom would be able to bring out of his treasures things new and old. They find that the beautiful and imposing physical structure called the Temple and which housed the holy things was actually a parable for the body of people who believe in the Lord Jesus, for instance; that the people of the physical nation Israel was actually a metaphor for the people called out from every nation to follow Christ; that the Sabbath was a metaphor for Christ Himself and that it meant that our whole life should be lived in Rest not strain - this was why Christians began to meet on the first, rather than the last, day of the week after Jesus rose from the Dead; that tithing is a statement of gratitude for God's Bounty toward us which we make without compulsion etc etc.

These people understand spiritual realities because they have become spiritual people. To them Moses is a parable. To others, Moses is the meaning, the end in itself. So, while others stumble all over Moses, they themselves ride on it into the deep things of God.

Ihedinobi:

Honestly, I don't understand the above.

Since God put the law to prove to us that we can't fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses and had since made Jesus die for the remission and propitiation of our sins. Why would he expect man that could not pass the test of the law face the same test all over again.

SOLA GRACIA my friend, I hope you get my drift though.

Well, I'm lost in this thread due to time and how busy I am now. Anyway, even the title of the OP says the way of mosaic law is different from the way of Grace and truth. How do I mean? The conjunction "BUT" shows a contrast and\or negative\opposite statement.

The law was given by Moses BUT Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Law and Grace\truth don't mix. Mark 2:22

shdemidemi:

Since God put the law to prove to us that we can't fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses and had since made Jesus die for the remission and propitiation of our sins. Why would he expect man that could not pass the test of the law face the same test all over again.

SOLA GRACIA my friend, I hope you get my drift though.

What suggests to you that He expects man to face the same test all over again?

Goshen360: Well, I'm lost in this thread due to time and how busy I am now. Anyway, even the title of the OP says the way of mosaic law is different from the way of Grace and truth. How do I mean? The conjunction "BUT" shows a contrast and\or negative\opposite statement.

The law was given by Moses BUT Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Law and Grace\truth don't mix. Mark 2:22

So,there was no truth in moses? Na so so lie and deception full the covenant? Abi watin the text dey try talk sef?

Goshen360: Well, I'm lost in this thread due to time and how busy I am now. Anyway, even the title of the OP says the way of mosaic law is different from the way of Grace and truth. How do I mean? The conjunction "BUT" shows a contrast and\or negative\opposite statement.

The law was given by Moses BUT Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Law and Grace\truth don't mix. Mark 2:22

Exactly, the OP shoots himself in the leg with the title to his own thread

The law was given by Moses BUT Grace (to help in time of need, Grace which is not lawlessness but upholds the law) and the Truth (The spirit of God to guide in ALL truth which is the law/word of God) came by Jesus. Very simple statement.

Goshen360: Well, I'm lost in this thread due to time and how busy I am now. Anyway, even the title of the OP says the way of mosaic law is different from the way of Grace and truth. How do I mean? The conjunction "BUT" shows a contrast and\or negative\opposite statement.

The law was given by Moses BUT Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Law and Grace\truth don't mix. Mark 2:22

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelations 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Atleast, noone here will again claim this does not apply to Christians, except they want to say they are not saints and the seed.

DrummaBoy:

Exactly, the OP shoots himself in the leg with the title to his own thread

Sometimes I think it's more charitable to leave off correcting a person's public gaffe for him to learn from in the future and correct by himself. That's why I left Goshen's comment alone.

Now, I know that it's far easier to jump on any train you think is going your way than it is to confirm that you're going the right way at all, but it does not speak well of a person's intellect or disposition to honesty to be so. That's the situation with your comment here.

Do you think that you can prove your claim above to be worthy of acceptance? How did I shoot myself in the foot titling this thread as I did? Did you also note that Goshen whose unschooled comment you swallowed whole admitted to being "lost in this thread", as he himself put it?

anukulapo:

So,there was no truth in moses? Na so so lie and deception full the covenant? Abi watin the text dey try talk sef?

Good questions. In fact, he did something very like imply that Moses was a lie because of that statement on another thread where we discussed sometime ago, but I let it slide hoping he'd realize what he was saying sometime in the future.

anukulapo:

So,there was no truth in moses? Na so so lie and deception full the covenant? Abi watin the text dey try talk sef?

Christ's message was coded and hidden. The Epistles revealed what was said under the law. The law was a SHADOW. Christ is the SUBSTANCE born under the SHADOWS. The Epistles revealed the substance out of the shadows. The law is part of the Old Covenant (old wineskin) and the Epistles (New wineskin) on which the New Testament is revealed must not mix with the Old or else, you ruin the whole wineskin\skin (body of Christ). You've stayed too long on mount Sinai, God is no longer there, He had moved to Zion.

Alwaystrue: The law was given by Moses BUT Grace (to help in time of need, Grace which is not lawlessness but upholds the law) and the Truth (The spirit of God to guide in ALL truth which is the law/word of God) came by Jesus. Very simple statement.



Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelations 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Atleast, noone here will again claim this does not apply to Christians, except they want to say they are not saints and the seed.

Wetin we dey talk wetin you dey talk? Hey, I can't do long post these days anymore cos I'm too busy for now. What does the law represent in that context? You need to use other scriptures to unloose that text. The law stands for 'imperfection' Hebrews 7:19. What then is the TRUTH in that text? The truth is, by the law no one is perfect or shall obtain perfection before God. Romans 3:20. The TRUTH also is, the law stands as SHADOW of good things to COME BUT NOT THE VERY GOOD THINGS IN ITSELF. Hebrews 10:1 but the TRUTH is, Grace is contrast to the LAW by that conjunction, 'BUT' of which the substance is Grace by which are saved through faith, which the law cannot do.

Ihedinobi:

Good questions. In fact, he did something very like imply that Moses was a lie because of that statement on another thread where we discussed sometime ago, but I let it slide hoping he'd realize what he was saying sometime in the future.

What good question was that? I left you on that thread because I don't have much time\strength for talk then. Even now, I might not have much time but let's start this way to know whether lies (half truth) were contained in Moses' teachings or not which translated to imperfection.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. John 10:8

Question:

1. Who are the ALL that came BEFORE Christ came?
2. Why do Christ called ALL of them THIEVES AND ROBBERS?

An answer to these two questions from scriptures will continue the discourse. Please don't give me too much philosophy to answer these questions o . Please answer #1 & #2 with scriptural reference please.

Goshen360:

What good question was that? I left you on that thread because I don't have much time\strength for talk then. Even now, I might not have much time but let's start this way to know whether lies (half truth) were contained in Moses' teachings or not which translated to imperfection.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. John 10:8

Question:

1. Who are the ALL that came BEFORE Christ came?
2. Why do Christ called ALL of them THIEVES AND ROBBERS?

An answer to these two questions from scriptures will continue the discourse. Please don't give me too much philosophy to answer these questions o . Please answer #1 & #2 with scriptural reference please.

are you using that scripture to imply that ALL the Prophets including Moses are thieves and robbers? This is incredulous.

Bidam: are you using that scripture to imply that ALL the Prophets including Moses are thieves and robbers? This is incredulous.

@Bidam, why are you jumping to conclusions now.
Let us wait for him to come back and give us the revelation he has for us.

He will further explain each of what the terms used in John 10 chapter (context) stand for relating to what:
the sheepfold,
the sheep,
the sheep that were not in the fold that time,
the wolves
the porter of the gate,
we already know who the gate is,
the hireling
and the thieves and robbers who pass the window that the sheep don't obey since they don't know their voice.
mean.

Since he brought it up, I want to see how far he is willing to go to prove his point. It will be a change to know what he thinks.
Patience..

Goshen360:

What good question was that? I left you on that thread because I don't have much time\strength for talk then. Even now, I might not have much time but let's start this way to know whether lies (half truth) were contained in Moses' teachings or not which translated to imperfection.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. John 10:8

Question:

1. Who are the ALL that came BEFORE Christ came?
2. Why do Christ called ALL of them THIEVES AND ROBBERS?

An answer to these two questions from scriptures will continue the discourse. Please don't give me too much philosophy to answer these questions o . Please answer #1 & #2 with scriptural reference please.

Here,we have two to compare (moses' and jesus' covenant). If the new (Jesus) said "ALL...",how can it be implied that the second (Moses) which is the old and singular is being refered to as "ALL..."?

Goshen360:

What good question was that? I left you on that thread because I don't have much time\strength for talk then. Even now, I might not have much time but let's start this way to know whether lies (half truth) were contained in Moses' teachings or not which translated to imperfection.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. John 10:8

Question:

1. Who are the ALL that came BEFORE Christ came?
2. Why do Christ called ALL of them THIEVES AND ROBBERS?

An answer to these two questions from scriptures will continue the discourse. Please don't give me too much philosophy to answer these questions o . Please answer #1 & #2 with scriptural reference please.

1. Those who came claiming to be the long-awaited Christ a possible example among whom was a Theudas whom Gamaliel spoke of as an example of a false starter (see Acts 5:34-39) and another Judas of Galilee also spoken of by the same person in the same place.

2. Because they claimed that which was not theirs - Messiahship - and tried to draw men after themselves, men whom God had given as an inheritance and a reward to His Christ.

@Goshen
PING!!!
Hope you'll be free very soon to come and respond to the questions you posted and the reactions that followed.

Goshen360:

What good question was that? I left you on that thread because I don't have much time\strength for talk then. Even now, I might not have much time but let's start this way to know whether lies (half truth) were contained in Moses' teachings or not which translated to imperfection.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. John 10:8

Question:

1. Who are the ALL that came BEFORE Christ came?
2. Why do Christ called ALL of them THIEVES AND ROBBERS?

An answer to these two questions from scriptures will continue the discourse. Please don't give me too much philosophy to answer these questions o . Please answer #1 & #2 with scriptural reference please.

Why do you always twist the bible? So even John d baptist,Isaiah,Jeremiah, David (a man after God's heart) e.t.c were all thieves.

This is quite alarming,the kind of heresy you propagate is absolutely ludicrous. Jeez!!!!!!

Yhwh made a covenant with avraham to give his descendants land and he gave those descendants rules to follow to continue to live there unless you are a descendant of avraham or u join them and keep that covenant which is eternal you have no share in that land. That is the so called old covenant. The new covenant is that Jesus died for our sins so we can go to heaven and not hell and burn for ever a consequence yhwh never gave to Abraham's descendants exile from the land is the primary punishment

chukkynwob:


Why do you always twist the bible? So even John d baptist,Isaiah,Jeremiah, David (a man after God's heart) e.t.c were all thieves.

This is quite alarming,the kind of heresy you propagate is absolutely ludicrous. Jeez!!!!!!

anukulapo:
@Goshen
PING!!!
Hope you'll be free very soon to come and respond to the questions you posted and the reactions that followed.

1. Those who came claiming to be the long-awaited Christ a possible example among whom was a Theudas whom Gamaliel spoke of as an example of a false starter (see Acts 5:34-39) and another Judas of Galilee also spoken of by the same person in the same place.
2. Because they claimed that which was not theirs - Messiahship - and tried to draw men after themselves, men whom God had given as an inheritance and a reward to His Christ.

anukulapo:

Here,we have two to compare (moses' and jesus' covenant). If the new (Jesus) said "ALL...",how can it be implied that the second (Moses) which is the old and singular is being refered to as "ALL..."?

Bidam:
are you using that scripture to imply that ALL the Prophets including Moses are thieves and robbers? This is incredulous.

Oh my goodness. Old thread. .. you people above trying to cover up plain statement from our Lord.

How in the world did I missed these posts? Okay, your answers are here people.

I really love this Biblical Scripture. Thank you Father in Heaven for the Gift of Jesus Christ, Amen. For without Him, Grace wouldnt exist. Words cant convey how Grateful I am for His Abundant Grace.

Goshen360:










Oh my goodness. Old thread. .. you people above trying to cover up plain statement from our Lord.

How in the world did I missed these posts? Okay, your answers are here people.

How do you feel when you mark your own exam script?

So if you come across a old heretic post (and with all the truth you possess) you'll just let it go because it is a old thread?

I guess that's what one should do. Since all things must be "new". SMH

anukulapo:

How do you feel when you mark your own exam script?
So if you come across a old heretic post (and with all the truth you possess) you'll just let it go because it is a old thread?
I guess that's what one should do. Since all things must be "new". SMH

What heretic post you talking about? Look, the thing about the word is, There're horrible things you can't cover up. It is what it is and Christ made it plain and simple so if I made a statement and have the answer but don't have time then and\or missed the post, seeing it now, why should it be a problem to talk about it?