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Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 11:39am On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: I agree with you. The Holy Spirit is God Almighty. Acts 5:3,4 says it all. v3 says they lied to the Holy Spirit, v4 says they lied not to men, but God. Holy Spirit is not man or force, but God, equal with the Father and Messiah. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by shdemidemi(m): 11:45am On Jun 01, 2013 |
truthislight: You sound bitter, what would you then say when you find out you are actually the one wrong--the bible says For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Should I believe you or the book? truthislight:Simple, Because people like you will not see what the Scriptures say. You gloss over it, and interpret it by what you may have heard over the years. truthislight:Christ is definitely all of that according to scriptures truthislight: Not when Jesus did not even know the Day and hour of the time of the end, but only the father knows..Deuteronomy 29:29 "The secret things (God's secret things) belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed (no longer a secret, but must be believed) belong unto us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law." He had a prerogative to keep what is to be kept, He knew day and hour from His God-side. Remember, He is as man as He is God at the same time. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 12:07pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
Isaiah's Vision of the Lord in His Glory Isaiah 6:3 1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2Above it stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he did fly. 3And one cried to another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. Revelation 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,' who was, and is, and is to come." Isaiah gives signs of the times, showing how people will recognize the advent of their God: "Say to those who are fearful-hearted, 'Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with vengeance, with the recompense of God; He will come and save you.' Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb sing. For waters shall burst forth in the wilderness, and streams in the desert." (Isaiah 35:4-6). Which is why, when the disciples of John the Baptist inquired who Jesus was, He drew their attention to these very signs, then being shown right before their eyes: "When the men had come to Him, they said, 'John the Baptist has sent us to You, saying, "Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?"' And that very hour He cured many of infirmities, afflictions, and evil spirits; and to many blind He gave sight. Jesus answered and said to them, 'Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.'" (Luke 7:20-22, Matthew 11:4-6). Who but God gives sight to the blind?: "The LORD opens the eyes of the blind; the LORD raises those who are bowed down; the LORD loves the righteous." (Psalm 146: 8 ); "So the LORD said to him, 'Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD?'" (Exodus 4:11). |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 12:12pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
shdemidemi:Jesus The Father and Holy spirit is God... the Office of God is the father son and holy spirit... those are the 3 distinct person that is the One God... So Jesus is Distinct from the father... Jesus is not the father. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by shdemidemi(m): 12:21pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: Where in my word did I say Jesus is God the father? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 12:25pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
shdemidemi:not correcting you... I was supposed to reply to truthlie explaining the distinction... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 12:27pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
Debroslink: Smh!!!!!..........lol....... Just a part of the scriptures that says God the holy spirit and this discussion is suppose to be over........even after much discussion you're still using this account to prove the holy spirit was called GOD.......ona wayo for this thread don too much,,,,,, We need to see a bolded expression where it is said the holy spirit is called the almighty God or even a God..... It seems the scriptures is not ready to back you guys up..... The holy spirit has been forced into the pagan triology....if you guys can't realize this truth then no amount of help can see you guys through..... And up till now as we speak we can't even see the holy spirit in heaven....... Why....... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 12:33pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: not correcting you... I was supposed to reply to truthlie explaining the distinction... Do you think till this moment you still can distinguish between Jehovah and Jesus??......with all the confusion you guys have installed in your system...lol... Just not long ago you guys never agreed that the Father is the only one GOd....if you and your pals haven't agreed on that aren't you guys insinuating that the holy spirit and Jesus are also the Father so that they can be squeezed into one God ??....... This is what the trinity does to its adherent...they get confused until they don't know where they stand.....one time they are holding on to modalism,the next minute they are back to the trinity....confusion!confusion!!confusion!!!... Now let me ask you this simple question and let me see if you will not fumble and finally tell me Jesus is not the same as the Father.... According to 1 corinthians 8:6,ephesians 4:6 and all through the scriptures who is the one GOD??.......... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 12:33pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid: So what did he lie to? And what is the only spirit? You should question your doctrine or call it pagan for saying the holy spirit is F=ma(force) is active force biblical? Trinity is biblical but active force is not. If he didn't lie to God why did he make that statement? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 12:38pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid: I don't think you understand what we are saying... The father is God Jesus is God holy spirit is God also... Not 3 gods but 1... genesis God speaks of him self as plural... GOD is a title... And the three are 1. When Adam talk to God we later know it was Jesus... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 12:41pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: not correcting you... I was supposed to reply to truthlie explaining the distinction... New Living Translation (©2007) But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life. Who is the one God??.....if you are so sure that Jesus isn't the Father then Jesus is not the almighty GOD....chikena....... 1 Like |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 12:42pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: Please read this scripture and re-evaluate your stance... New Living Translation (©2007) But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life. Is Jesus and the holy spirit still the one God or only the Father??....... I want you guys to tell me if you really believe in the trinity or not..... 1 Like |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 12:46pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: From all the scriptures you quoted no one calles Jesus GOD the son and the holy spirit God the holy spirit..... The one GOD still is the Father....so this scriptures are just like everyday scriptures..nothing spectacular to prove the trinity dogma........ |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 1:01pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid: there is only one GOD comma The FATHER and ONE LORD comma the SON... When the rest of the verse is quoted a problem soon emerges with interpreting this verse to deny Jesus as God. The rest of the verse states that there is one Lord - Jesus Christ. So, to exclude the Son from being God because it says there is to us one God, the Father, would also exclude the Father from being one Lord! In fact, Jude 4 talks about "our only Lord and master, Jesus Christ." Are we therefore to conclude that the Father is not our Lord? Of course not. But by the same measure, if we are to be consistent, neither are we to conclude that the Son is not God either. The fact is, 1 Corinthians 8:6 should be understood in the light of the fact that the terms “God” and “Lord” are used interchangeably of the Father and the Son in Scripture. In Mark 5:19 (Jehovah in the NWT) and Luke 8:39 the two terms are used interchangeably. The Father is called “Lord” (Matt. 11:25), but the Son is also called God (John 1:1, Titus 2:13; 2 Pet 1:1, etc.) Interestingly, the two terms “Lord” and “God” are both used of Jesus at John 20:28. Jehovah is also called by this title (Rev. 4:11). The two terms are used interchangeably of both the Father and the Son. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 1:31pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: So who is the only GOD na??...... Please...who??..... And I hope you don't forget that Jehovah appointed Jesus as Lord and so you see Jesus being called Lord....... And once again I take you back to 1 corinthians 11:3..... We would revolve around this scriptures until you quit the trinity......and mind you the holy spirit sef them never even call am Lord sef............ New International Version (©2011) But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God Once again we know who the one God is..... And from John 1:1 was Jesus called the one God??.ahaaa... And let us consider 2 peter 1:1... You do know this verse is one amongst romans 9:5,and titus 2:13 which has been greatly twisted by trinitarians to satisfy there delusion... Did you know that the words and construct in 2 peter 1:1 is exactly the same as the one found in 2 thesellonians 1:12 which we would read and then compare and fish out the wayo played........ New International Version (©2011) We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Hope you can spot the wayo made by your guys........ And may we just move on to the next verse and expose the inconsistency of the renderers of this verse... 2peter 1:2 New International Version (©2011) Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord...... now can you spot the wayo played??...... Now you say they are used interchangeably,and that is because your fellow trinitarians have chosen to arbitrarily chosen to switch those titles..... Now please can you interchange those titles from 1 corinthians 11:3,1 corinthians 15:24-28,1 timothy 2:5...??..those are just few scriptures that squash your stance.... And oh I forgot to quote 2peter 1:1 from KJV and ASV.......here they are... American King James Version Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ: American Standard Version Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the'saviour Jesus Christ: Weymouth New Testament Simon Peter, a bondservant and Apostle of Jesus Christ: To those to whom there has been allotted the same precious faith as that which is ours through the righteousness of our God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Benalvino...... You can't twist scriptures to support the trinity....the trinity will ever remain pagan..... Now I want you to answer confidently... Who is the only one GOD??....... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by truthislight: 1:34pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: Most people really Confuse what spirit is. The word spirit means many things. See: 1. Spirit creatures are called spirits. 1. Power of spirit creatures is also called spirit. While humans have hands and legs to do things, spirit creatures use their spirits(power) to do things. Satan has his own power(spirit) and uses it to do whatever he wants: "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the "spirit" that now "worketh"(act) in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Ephesians 2:2-3). ....................... From that ^, we can see that the (spirit)power of satan is being use by him to do what he wants and is call, "spirit". Yahweh has his on power to act and to will what ever he wants to do and is called the "Holy spirit", the most powerful force in the univers >>> Holy spirit. Though Yahweh is a spirit person, his power is his Holy spirit. The action of the holy spirit is Yahweh's doing things, be it by delegation or directly. The Holy spirit is an exclusive control of Yahweh except when he Gives it to his servant like when he gave it to Jesus during his baptism and Jesus started performing miracles. How satan uses his power(his spirit) to deceive the sons of disobedient is what he wants to do and he uses his spirit to do that. Ephesians 2:2. ............................. nlMediator: The spirit of God was operational in those disciples, meaning that Go working in them or God's power was upon them. So, such lying was a deliberate going against God who have given them(disciples) his Holy spirit. So, they went against God's leading, went against God holy spirit since the holy spirit is God's. If your children goes against your instruction/your leading they are going against you. Peace. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 1:40pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid:pls are u trying to say that All the times the word GOD was in the bible it referred to Only the Father and not too Jesus? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by truthislight: 1:43pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
nlMediator: The spirit of God was operational in those disciples, meaning that Go working in them or God's power was upon them. So, such lying was a deliberate going against God who have given them(disciples) his Holy spirit. So, they went against God's leading, went against God holy spirit since the holy spirit is God's. If your children goes against your instruction//your leading they are going against you. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 1:47pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
Dux-01: I am talking about specific places where the one GOd who is the only true GOD mentioned........it is only the Father......only the Father is the one God........ That is why Jesus worshipped Him....... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 1:58pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid: Really trying to make the bible look like Cheat but it is not working... the wayo bible or biggest wayo is the new world translation. you keep flipping bible that suits you in English in a way and in another argument suddenly the one that suits you is wayo and the KJV will be the one you use to support your self. so forget this talk. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by truthislight: 1:59pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: The word trinity is not in the bible neither is it a bible teaching. QED. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by shdemidemi(m): 2:02pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid: our brother benalvino has answered your question, although you seem to disagree. But the man had tried, could you please explain the prophesy of the coming of this begotten son. For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. The scriptures called him all those names, they seem like similar names of God, what do u think? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by truthislight: 2:07pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
shdemidemi: ^^^ In this dispensation, the Age of Grace, it's not Jesus who does the baptizing but the Holy Spirit Who is the One doing the baptizing. And He baptizes believers into Christ. It's just a complete reversal to what had been taking place. You have to understand God is one with three entities within him, then the role of the Holy Spirit can then be fully understood. "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Matthew 28:18-20). |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 2:07pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
truthislight: baptize in the name of the father and the son... he no do them... then it say in the name of Yahweh power? na wao... why God they treat him power as different person na? I don already talk about spirit... satan is a spirit and satan is not an it also. Human spirit is the personality of the body which is the outward man and the spirit is the inward man... without the spirit the body doesn't function... with out the body the spirit functions. that is why the angels function and Guess what the disciples thought Jesus was a spirit after resurrection. this one should be put to bed... IF the holy spirit is Gods power according to you guys... then the Holy spirit is God!! |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 2:10pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
shdemidemi: the bible calls the father mighty God also... it calls Jesus almighty God also... again interchangeable but he will conclude that it is the bible that is doing the wayo... must of the verse I am quoting sometimes is from their new world translation |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 2:13pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
benalvino: Lol...you can call the NWT the most wayo-est bible translation..that is not my problem....at least the NWT has the name of the one true God written in its proper place...them try well well for that one..... .......the problem here is I'm all out to make you see the trinity dogma does not originate with God......... The next verse of the 2 peter you quoted even tells you the rendering of verse 1 is wrong......learn to always make scriptures act consistently and uncontradictory......... And I also told you how an exact construct was used in thesellonians and that debunked the wayo played in 2 peter 1:1....... It has always been known that the one true GOD is the Father......Jesus is not the Father and so not the on true GOD ......... No amount of spurious rendering and wrenching can battle that basic fact........ Now I would ask you again...... Who is the one true GOD??...... Read 1 timothy 2:5,1 corinthians 8:6,ephesians 4:6,1 corinthians 11:3 and also read through all of Jesus prayers and tell me who the one true GOD is........ |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 2:16pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
truthislight: the word bible, rapture, are not in the bible, but you believe them don't u? I read ur comment about the Holy Spirit about being a force... But I tell u, it's a blasphemy. The Holy Spirit is Almighty God. Just read Job33:4 using the KJV and not the 20th century adulterated bible versions. The Holy Spirit created you, AND ONLY God has the power to create man. I repeat if u wana respond to me by quoting d scriptures, use the KJV. Any bible version that can't quote 1 John5:7 in full is ADULTERATED. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 2:18pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid:pls who is Our Saviour(saviour of ALL mankind) |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 2:18pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
ijawkid:pls who is Our Saviour(saviour of ALL mankind)Pls ans? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 2:19pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
shdemidemi: Does the title SON apply to the Father??...... And did you notice that in isaiah it say he would be called.....meaning Jesus wasn't all of that before his descending to the earth......not until after his death did those names apply to Jesus and ofcourse Jesus acted in those roles....... And which of the titles should we discuss first??.... Choose...... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 2:20pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
truthislight: In the bold part, pls what is the name the 3 personalities share in common? Remember it didn't say "names of" but "name of". WHAT IS THIS NAME? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 2:20pm On Jun 01, 2013 |
Jesus used personal pronouns when referring to the Holy Spirit: "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. "(John 16:7-15). Scripture uses many terms that are used when speaking of a person and applies them to the Holy Spirit: He helps (John 16:7). He comforts (John 14:16). He convicts of sin (John 16:17). He gives testimony of Jesus (John 15:26). He teaches and brings to remembrance (John 14:26). He guides (John 16:13). He restrains (2 Thess. 2:7). He speaks and instructs (Acts 8:29; 10:19; John 16:13). He interprets our prayers (Rom. 8:26). He sets apart/sanctifies (2Thess. 2:13). He hears (John 16:13). He seals us (Eph. 1:13). He knows and communicates (1 Cor. 2:11; Rom. 8:27). He sends (Acts 13:4). He brings forth life (John 3:6 compare Gen. 1:3). He is a witness (Acts 5:32). He reveals (Eph. 3:5). He prevents/stops (Acts 16:6-7). He wills/separates (Acts 13:2). He has a will by which He decides, chooses and distributes (1 Cor. 12:11). He can be lied to (Acts 5:3-4). He can be tested (Acts 5:9). He can be grieved (Eph. 4:30). He leads (Matt. 4:1). The Spirit "said" to Philip. (Acts 8:29). The Spirit "said" to Peter. (Acts 10:19-20). Peter said he was "told" by the Spirit (Acts 11:12). The Holy Spirit "solemnly testifies" (Acts 20:23). The Holy Spirit "made" some of the early Christians "overseers to shepherd the Church". (Acts 20:28). The Holy Spirit "spoke" (Acts 28:25-27). Acts 15:22 states that "it seemed good to the apostles and the elders." Nothing particularly striking about this as it is just stating that something was good to certain people, in this case the apostles and the elders. However, in verse 28 we see an interesting parallel: "...it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us..." (Acts 15:28). Obviousely, this is similar to the earlier verse. But what is significant with both of these parallel verses is that the writer of Acts includes the Spirit along with various people as though he is just listing another Person. The casual way that this is presented makes this even more striking. The Apostles, elders, and the Spirit recognise something as being "good". Now if the Spirit were not a Person, but rather an impersonal force, as the Watchtower claim, it would be like saying "it seemed good to the wind and to us." Obviously, such a statement would make no sense. In addition to this, it is incredible that that the Watchtower recognise other spirits as being personal but still deny the personality of the spirit: The Watchtower Society tells us:- 1) That God is a Spirit and a person. 2) The angels are spirits and persons. 3) The demons are spirits and are persons. 4) Jesus is a spirit and a person. 5) Satan is a spirit and a person. 6) The Holy Spirit of God is a spirit but is NOT worthy of being a Person!!! * |
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