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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll (3670 Views)
My Fellow Agnostic And Atheist, What If We Got It All Wrong? / To All Atheist, Agnostic, Skeptics E.t.c Do People Know You As An Atheist? / Positive Atheism's Big List Of Robert green Ingersoll Quotations (2) (3) (4)
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Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 6:38pm On May 29, 2013 |
Link : http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/why_i_am_agnostic.html A very good read, I must say. The ministers, who preached at these revivals, were in earnest. They were zealous and sincere. They were not philosophers. To them science was the name of a vague dread -- a dangerous enemy. They did not know much, but they believed a great deal. To them hell was a burning reality -- they could see the smoke and flames. The Devil was no myth. He was an actual person. a rival of God, an enemy of mankind.
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Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Lionpikin(m): 6:07pm On May 30, 2013 |
Please @ Musqueeto, who is an agnostic, what is the difference between an agnostic and an atheist? I need enlightment because, I am a bit confused on who I am. thanks 1 Like |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by inspiredbyGOD(m): 10:13pm On May 30, 2013 |
Lionpikin: Please @ Musqueeto, who is an agnostic, what is the difference between an agnostic and an atheist? I need enlightment because, I am a bit confused on who I am. thanksYou shouldn't be confused. From your username, it should be obvious that you are the child of a lion. .............................. Okay, okay, on a serious note, you can just "google up" the terms to find out their meaning or you could read about it on wikipedia. 1 Like |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by inspiredbyGOD(m): 10:14pm On May 30, 2013 |
Interesting read @op |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Lionpikin(m): 11:41pm On May 30, 2013 |
@inspired by God, thanks a lot, i ll do dat now |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 4:45am On May 31, 2013 |
inspiredbyGOD:.:Long time.. where u go hide? |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 4:47am On May 31, 2013 |
Lionpikin: @inspired by God, thanks a lot, i ll do dat nowhttps://www.nairaland.com/1301165/lightning-strikes-science-vs-religion/5#15962736 I'll post links to other comments too asap. It's been discussed at length on this forum, but continues to crop up once in a while. 1 Like |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 5:07am On May 31, 2013 |
Strange. It feels like I'm reading Bro. Frosbel's story.. Anyways, those who believe that Christianity has always been painted in pink and innocent should read this. In my opinion, Christianity has only evolved faster than Islam.
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Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 6:21am On May 31, 2013 |
Apologist things..
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Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:04am On May 31, 2013 |
I guess judges are bunch of sadist because they sentence people to life in prison and ultimately to death... Maybe we should do away with laws that keep people behind bars for life because it is very cruel... 1 Like |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:12am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi: I guess judges are bunch of sadist because they sentence people to life in prison and ultimately to death... No greetings, Striklymi? Still butthurt? By the way, your comment is one of the most shallow defenses that are commonly used to defend the bible/old testament wickedness Which Judge does the following; -allows ra.pe (Deuteronomy 20:10-14) -kills children as punishment for father's sins (2 Samuel 12:14-31) -kills children and takes health + wealth of a man just to test his faith (Book of Job) -allows slavery (Leveticus 25;44) |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:16am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi: I guess judges are bunch of sadist because they sentence people to life in prison and ultimately to death... And that's why some make the case that the purpose of prisons should be for reform not condemnation. How much more a God that claims to author our morality? |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by inspiredbyGOD(m): 7:32am On May 31, 2013 |
musKeeto:I just decided to stay off nairaland in order to get my acts together. Hopefully, I will stay on this new path without getting all confused and I won't have to second-guess myself. 1 Like |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:35am On May 31, 2013 |
...and the Olodo speaks! First impression was to put up one big sign that has your name (OLODO) written all over it and ignore your post but since I ma in a jolly good mood today, getting entertained with your Olodo sounds like a very nice idea... Logicboy03: Didn't know this Olodo secretly likes being greeted... Logicboy03: ...and the Olodo assumes I tried to put up a defence for Sacred scriptures. Logicboy03: Even if I explain with my anus you still won't understand...no need to bother myself. |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:38am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi: ...and the Olodo speaks! Let me not derail Muskeeto's treads byh engaging the new and improved butthurt-abusive Striklymi. *f4cks off thread to do whatever an evangelistic atheists does* |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by inspiredbyGOD(m): 7:38am On May 31, 2013 |
musKeeto:Is it possible for, let's say, a serial killer (who obviously derives pleasure from killing people) to be reformed? |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:42am On May 31, 2013 |
Logicboy03: Still lying for Dawkins, or is it the FSM (hard to tell which is the God and which the prophet sometimes), are we? |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:46am On May 31, 2013 |
musKeeto: Note that prisons are put up for very different reasons...reform those you intend to bring back to society, give justice to those who have been hurt in one way or the other, act as a preventive measure to deter those who have plans to commit similar crimes etc. If one is sentenced to death for a crime committed, what exactly is that punishment supposed to achieve? I am very sure it has nothing to do with 'refurbishing' the individual but to appease justice... Man only wants an avenue where we eat our cake and have it, and really we care little about the rationality of certain things because it has to do with God...if we look closely to the way we do things as man...it really is not very different from the principles God applies. musKeeto: God has his moral codes and I believe he knows that man at certain times is not ready to receive the full extent of this morality and that is why he doesn't force this morality on us, save for certain instances. |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 7:48am On May 31, 2013 |
Logicboy03: OLODO!!! |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 8:00am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi:Good. The laws by whose authority the judge performs his duties are agreed upon by the society, aren't they? It's up to him to decide. And life imprisonment expires after death. Do you think if humans lived to be a 1000 years old, we'd be comfortable with locking up people for centuries? striktlymi:Can justice ever be appeased? Is the law perfect? Anyways, I'm not a lawyer and my knowledge on this matters would be quite deficient. striktlymi:Exactly. God was created in the image of men. striktlymi:Yawn. Whose morality do we agree upon then? Krishna, Chukwu, Yahweh, Allah? |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 8:22am On May 31, 2013 |
musKeeto: Life in prison to the flesh is equivalent to an eternity in prison to the spirit. musKeeto: You really do not know the extent of these things, do you? If man is capable of living upto a thousand years then everything we know now would be very relative....a middle aged man would be 500 and when one is 100, he would be considered a boy... Now, to answer your question, the answer is still in the affirmative...man will not have a problem with locking up people for that long giving the nature of the crime. musKeeto: Justice can be appeased in the sense that there will be some form of closure. musKeeto: Your opinion man! T his does not change the truth. This is similar to the words of Alfa: "Will things into existence". musKeeto: You still do not get it... This is not about whose morality we follow...it is more about who does right giving one's sphere of knowledge. You can say that God choose to work with the morality of man with a caveat.... Try and understand what it means to say: "to whom much is given, much is expected"... It is said that ignorance of the law is no excuse but in God's watch, ignorance can be an excuse if and only if, the individual sincerely does not know any better. |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by mazaje(m): 8:34am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi: I guess judges are bunch of sadist because they sentence people to life in prison and ultimately to death... The problem is that your god is an unjust judge and does not know what justice means. . .We has humans do not go about judging each other in such an unjust way. . . |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 8:35am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi:Na. One continues infinitely. There's no equivalence whatsoever.. striktlymi:It doesn't matter how long our lives become. We would still be considered liable for our actions at a certain age. striktlymi:Before we continue along this line, I'd like you to pause and consider that some certain crimes attracted life imprisonment as punishment just a few years back. It's possible that a few centuries from now, there may no longer be prisons, but rehabilitation centers. striktlymi:Form of closure to the victim. Justice has no feelings whatsoever. (hmm, at this point, I'm even tempted to question if there's anything like justice in the real sense.. crazy).. striktlymi:Yeah. We do that everyday. striktlymi:This introduces a new dimension to the discussion. Would you agree then that there's no objective morality? Also, would it be right to say that if there's no 'objective' morality, that there are universal attributes on which morality can be built on? Let's say, in no particular order, survival, love? striktlymi:Yawn. Speaking for God now, aren't you? |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 8:39am On May 31, 2013 |
Hallo Mazaje, mazaje: That is not true... mazaje: The above is demonstrably false. |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 8:43am On May 31, 2013 |
inspiredbyGOD:.: Lol. Put him on the battlefield. He would satisfy his quench there. Obviously, there are those who delight in watching their victims slowly die. Lots of craziness in this world man. |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by mazaje(m): 8:56am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi: Hallo Mazaje, Let me give you just one of the form of your god's justice that is immoral. . . Amo 4:6 "I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. Amo 4:7 "I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up. Amo 4:8 People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. Amo 4:9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, destroying them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. Amo 4:10 "I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword, along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. Please what kind of justice is this?. . .Will you infect your children with diesease and starve them for refusing to obey you. . .Do judges order people to be starved, infected with diseases, devoured by wild animals etc for breaking the law?. . .Many christians find this immoral and dispecable. . .. The above is demonstrably false. No it is not, even the hell myth has lost support amongst many christians in the west and other parts of the world. . . The people here do not accept hell as a just punishment for any body any more, so they come up with different theories to say people are not getting what the bible is saying or refuse to accept it outrightly. Many here on nairaland do not accept hell as a just punishment, because it is immoral to them. . .Its is not a just system of punishment. Firstly the bible says that who ever does not believe in Jesus is condemned already. What kind of justice is this that is predicated on belief?. . .I know you will not accept a parent that keeps beating his child all the child's life for disobedience. . .I repeat many christians do not see the hell punishment as a just punishment any more, they see it as unjust, sadistic and cruel and many have rejected it. . . |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 9:19am On May 31, 2013 |
musKeeto: I don't expect you to understand it anyways. musKeeto: ...and the above means?...of course I know that there will still be an age where one will be tried as an adult, subject to some peculiarity. musKeeto: Have you given it a thought that maybe years from now what we might have are 'killing zones' as against rehabilitation centres considering the growth rate of the number of humans in the world. musKeeto: There is something called justice and it definitely can be appeased...justice though relative in some cases because of the subjectivity of man, can actually be very objective... If someone kills in cold blood and the individual is placed on 'death row'...can't we say that justice has been served? If the law states: 'a life for a life' and that was done...then it is justice....if the law states: 'Life in prison' and it was meted out to the killer then justice has been served... Justice here as to do with what is considered fair and reasonable and in the world we find ourselves...it is agreed that whatever is enshrined in the constitution should be the basis for judgement hence justice. musKeeto: It depends on what you mean by 'objective morality'...this has been looked at in so many threads and really what I see is a situation where those debating are saying the same thing from very different perspective... If we say morality is objective, the questions here are: Objective to whom?...By objective do we mean a situation where the individual who is assessing morality, does so by looking strictly at the facts? In line with the questions above then it is safe to say that morality can be looked at without attaching personal sentiments into the matter hence it can be objective if and only if one can maintain his objectivity... But now it becomes problematic when the questions are asked: what defines right and wrong and from whose perspective do we determine the basis of right and wrong? What is right for 'A' can be wrong for 'B' and as such the whole objectivity thingy fails... As far as humans are concerned, morality remains subjective. musKeeto: Survival??...do we say that a Mother who get's stuck in the middle of the sahara desert without any hope of rescue, decides to kill her newly born who just refuses to die, in order to quench her thirst, necessarily does wrong? Or do we say that the same mother because of the love she has for her child prefers to die instead of killing the child, who anyways has just a few hours to live, necessarily does wrong because of her actions? Muskeeto the question is really not a straightforward 'yes' or 'No' kinda question...what is LOVE? Is love objective or subjective? In the case of the lost mother and child, who should show love and sacrifice him or herself? The child or the mother? musKeeto: I do not pretend to be God's spokesperson...you know that I am a Catholic and as far as I am concerned, the Pope is the spokesperson of God on Earth 1 Like |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 9:24am On May 31, 2013 |
^^^ Got to give it to you. You're more straightforward and less dubious. Yahweh slave. |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 9:34am On May 31, 2013 |
mazaje: Now, by what or whose standards do you adjudge the above to be immoral and a sour taste in the mouth of Justice? Let me ask you this: When you kill an ant, is that immoral or injustice to you? mazaje: To settle the above I have just one question: Have there been times where the laws that were upheld as just and moral in the past are now rendered obsolete, bad and distasteful in the present, all through human history? |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 9:40am On May 31, 2013 |
musKeeto: ^^^ Of course I am a slave of Yahweh...I only wish I become a very good slave of Yahweh. But when we take a cursory look at our very small world...can't we all be said to be slaves?...A philosopher puts it beautifully..."Men are born free but walk about in chains". |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by mazaje(m): 9:44am On May 31, 2013 |
striktlymi: Standard that we set for ourselves as humans. . .It is unjust for a father to starve his kids or infect them with dieases for acts of disobedience. . .What has an ant got to do with this?. . .It is immoral to go about killing ants in the wild for no just reason, unless if they come into your house and are constituting a problem. . .Else killing an ant that is going about on its own is immoral. . . To settle the above I have just one question: Have there been times where the laws that were upheld as just and moral in the past are now rendered obsolete, bad and distasteful in the present, all through human history? Sure, but what has that got to do with the hell wahala that is completely unjust, sadistic and cruel that so many christians are now seeing it for what it is?. . . |
Re: Why I Am Agnostic -- Robert Green Ingersoll by Nobody: 10:10am On May 31, 2013 |
mazaje: When ants constitute a problem for you, then you kill them even though you did not create them? Now another question: why then is it wrong for God to kill his own creation if he believes they are constituting a problem? mazaje: The ish is not about hell...the ish came about as a result of your post: mazaje: The point here is to demonstrate to you that what you have up there is false...man has indeed gone out of his way to be unjust to his fellow man... |
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