Ihedinobi:


And who says that disbelief is merely the absence of belief? That is mere indifference and can only result from ignorance of the issue.

Disbelief about a given thing is belief about its opposite?

Disbelief is the absence of belief. An agnostic is still a disbeliever.

@ bold- a strawman that you should feel good arguing with yourself

Ihedinobi:
I guess you'll have to define time, since I have no idea what you mean.

Feigning ignorance

Ihedinobi:

If the beginning of the universe is material, then there was no beginning at all because matter which began the univerae must have existed prior to its beginning. In which case, I wonder what your objection to an eternal God without beginning and end really is.

Faulty argument. Premise and conclusion do not follow. A material universe could have a material beginning. Infact, it must have a material beginning.

The big bang is material as far as we know...

Fiuthermore, a material universe can still come out from another universe.....material beginnings from the multiverse hypothesis.....a material beginning, if we ever find one other than the big bang would be easily explainable.

Dumbazz

Ihedinobi:

Have you ceased to be a materialist? Do you believe that something other than matter exists?

Strawman. focus on God and time and beginning abeg

Ihedinobi:

I still do not see the meaning of the condition of existence. Do you plan to supply it at some point?

Feigning ignorance. My comment is as clear as crystal

Ihedinobi:

I have an idea what you are trying to say but you yourself are defeating your own argument. Either God by definition created everything out of nothing or else the material universe has always existed and never had a beginning. Which is it, buddy?

wow two failed options. The answer is we dont know. The big bang is as far as we know.....anyone claiming anything else, especially without scientific proof is a foolish liar

Logicboy03:



Disbelief is the absence of belief. An agnostic is still a disbeliever.

@ bold- a strawman that you should feel good arguing with yourself

Disbelief is not the absence of belief, my friend. It is belief of the opposite of the thing which is in question. You cannot say that you don't believe in God and also not believe that there is no God. If you don't believe that there is a God, it only means that you believe that there is no God. Is the latter not still a belief?

Feigning ignorance

Dodging the question

Faulty argument. Premise and conclusion do not follow. A material universe could have a material beginning. Infact, it must have a material beginning.

The big bang is material as far as we know...

Fiuthermore, a material universe can still come out from another universe.....material beginnings from the multiverse hypothesis.....a material beginning, if we ever find one other than the big bang would be easily explainable.

Dumbazz

Even if our universe resulted from another universe, do you hold that this other universe is not material? As long as you believe that matter is all there is, it is eternal and that gives you the same problem of how anything can exist eternally.

Strawman. focus on God and time and beginning abeg

A straw man misrepresents your argument so that I can attack the false representation. My response was not a straw man because, as far as I know, and I have requested correction a number of times, you are really a materialist and you believe that matter is all there is. Therefore, I can question that position legitimately.

Feigning ignorance. My comment is as clear as crystal

It isn't. That existence depends on time is not a definition of existence itself as a condition. That's like saying that you have defined organic life by saying that it is dependent on oxygen.

wow two failed options. The answer is we dont know. The big bang is as far as we know.....anyone claiming anything else, especially without scientific proof is a foolish liar

My friend, forced ignorancr won't work here. The information from the Big Bang is enough to tell what the options are. Either matter is eternal or it owes its existence to something other than itself. Again, which is it?

Ihedinobi:

Disbelief is not the absence of belief, my friend. It is belief of the opposite of the thing which is in question.

A muslim doesnt believe in your God. Does that mean that he believes in the opposite of Yaweh?

How foolish

Ihedinobi:
You cannot say that you don't believe in God and also not believe that there is no God. If you don't believe that there is a God, it only means that you believe that there is no God. Is the latter not still a belief?

Fail!


See how you embarrass yourself with dishonesty?



You are such a liar and a dubious debater. So, explain how an agnostic is a disbeliever. Explain this. Christians place agnostics as disbelievers. so how does that happen that agnosticism is a disbelief then?

Let us see you explain the impossible

Ihedinobi:

Even if our universe resulted from another universe, do you hold that this other universe is not material? As long as you believe that matter is all there is, it is eternal and that gives you the same problem of how anything can exist eternally.

Guy....you have lost the argument. Dont even try abeg!

You said that if the universe had a beginning then the beginning must be immaterial.....
Now when I give an example of a possible material beginning- a universe from another universe, you then try to claim that this older universe is not material....Fail!!!


Does an immaterial universe make sense to u? Ode

Ihedinobi:

A straw man misrepresents your argument so that I can attack the false representation. My response was not a straw man because, as far as I know, and I have requested correction a number of times, you are really a materialist and you believe that matter is all there is. Therefore, I can question that position legitimately.

OKAY

Ihedinobi:
It isn't. That existence depends on time is not a definition of existence itself as a condition. That's like saying that you have defined organic life by saying that it is dependent on oxygen.

Fail...woeful analogy.

living things must eat- yes
things that exist must exist within time-
things that exist must exist in the present or they dont exist anymore.

3 facts about existence.


I didnt define anything, just gave you facts

Ihedinobi:
My friend, forced ignorancr won't work here. The information from the Big Bang is enough to tell what the options are. Either matter is eternal or it owes its existence to something other than itself. Again, which is it?

Bullshiit, the big bang explains the expansion of the universe- simple and short.

There is no God in the equations or scientific papers. So you are babbling when you say the big bang supports God.

As long as there's ignorance, there will be God. The weakness of today's scientific arguments are the strengths of the GOD idea.

musKeeto: As long as there's ignorance, there will be God. The weakness of today's scientific arguments are the strengths of the GOD idea.

God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance

Logicboy03:


A muslim doesnt believe in your God. Does that mean that he believes in the opposite of Yaweh?

How foolish

Now you're merely being wilfully unintelligent. Is the Muslim's unbelief an empty belief? Does he not believe that Yahweh is not God? His dis/unbelief in Yahweh as God is the exacr aame as the belief that Yahweh is not God.

Fail!


See how you embarrass yourself with dishonesty?



You are such a liar and a dubious debater. So, explain how an agnostic is a disbeliever. Explain this. Christians place agnostics as disbelievers. so how does that happen that agnosticism is a disbelief then?

Let us see you explain the impossible

Lol. What is impossible to explain here? Agnostics do not believe that God can be known, thus they do not believe that God is Yahweh. That is the equal of a belief that God is not Yahweh and that God cannot be known.

Guy....you have lost the argument. Dont even try abeg!

You said that if the universe had a beginning then the beginning must be immaterial.....
Now when I give an example of a possible material beginning- a universe from another universe, you then try to claim that this older universe is not material....Fail!!!


Does an immaterial universe make sense to u? Ode

Such a child and a dishonest one at that. Wgere did I make any such claim? Have you forgotten how to read? Read through again more slowly.

I said that as long as you hold that matter is all there is, it is eternal, so even if our universe is the product of another, that one would still necessarily be material unless you think that there is more than matter in existence.

OKAY

Fail...woeful analogy.

living things must eat- yes
things that exist must exist within time-
things that exist must exist in the present or they dont exist anymore.

3 facts about existence.


I didnt define anything, just gave you facts

And I asked for a definition, did I not? I'd like to hear one now, if you please.

Bullshiit, the big bang explains the expansion of the universe- simple and short.

There is no God in the equations or scientific papers. So you are babbling when you say the big bang supports God.

How very dishonest you are, Lb. The Big Bang is a scientific theory of origins. It holds that a singularity exploded to become the vast universe. But where did the singularity come from, Lb? Did it just happen out of nothing? (Absurdity alert!) Or was it always there? (Matter is eternal, thus Lb is a dishonest son who would grant that eternal existence is possible as long as the subject is matter and not God!)

Lie some more for me, son.

---

Er, what happened to the following two questions I asked you in the post before last?

Ihedinobi: Where?



How am I doing so? You're not just trying to avoid my questions, are you?

Ihedinobi:

Now you're merely being wilfully unintelligent. Is the Muslim's unbelief an empty belief? Does he not believe that Yahweh is not God? His dis/unbelief in Yahweh as God is the exacr aame as the belief that Yahweh is not God.

But you earlier said

-Disbelief in God = A belief in no God

Now you have changed it to;

-Muslim disbelief in God = a belief that Yaweh is not god.

How can disbelief mean two very different things?

Why no go with the easy definition- A disbelief is an absence of belief in something

1. disbelief - doubt about the truth of something
incredulity, mental rejection, skepticism

doubt, doubtfulness, dubiety, dubiousness, incertitude, uncertainty - the state of being unsure of something
2. disbelief - a rejection of belief
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/disbelief

So there you have it.....so did you make your own dictionary to define disbelief as a belief in the opposite?


#Ihedinobi debunked....

Ihedinobi:
Lol. What is impossible to explain here? Agnostics do not believe that God can be known, thus they do not believe that God is Yahweh. That is the equal of a belief that God is not Yahweh and that God cannot be known.

Fail....you said that disbelief in god = a belief in no god

But agnostics dont say that they believe that there is no god. They just say that they dont know. They are disbelievers because they simple do not hold a positive belief in god.

Ihedinobi:
Such a child and a dishonest one at that. Wgere did I make any such claim? Have you forgotten how to read? Read through again more slowly.

I said that as long as you hold that matter is all there is, it is eternal, so even if our universe is the product of another, that one would still necessarily be material unless you think that there is more than matter in existence.

what if there is something so infinitesimal that it is smaller than matter/quarks etc but still physical?

hmm? We are still making leaps in quantum science bro....

Keep strawmanning the eternal material universe with yourself.


You lost the argument when you said that the beginning of a material universe can not be material. FAIL

Ihedinobi:
And I asked for a definition, did I not? I'd like to hear one now, if you please.

Go find a dictionary

Ihedinobi:
How very dishonest you are, Lb. The Big Bang is a scientific theory of origins. It holds that a singularity exploded to become the vast universe. But where did the singularity come from, Lb? Did it just happen out of nothing? (Absurdity alert!) Or was it always there? (Matter is eternal, thus Lb is a dishonest son who would grant that eternal existence is possible as long as the subject is matter and not God!)

Lie some more for me, son.

huh......God is not in the big bang equations or scientific paper.....adding God to the big bang is foolish. We do not understand the nature of the world with theology. We understand it with science

#ouch

then get off of the ride.

Logicboy03:


But you earlier said

-Disbelief in God = A belief in no God

Now you have changed it to;

-Muslim disbelief in God = a belief that Yaweh is not god.

How can disbelief mean two very different things?

Why no go with the easy definition- A disbelief is an absence of belief in something

Compare the bolded with the following:

Logicboy03: A muslim doesnt believe in your God. Does that mean that he believes in the opposite of Yaweh? 

Now, tell me exactly what I changed. Note the words I highlighted in your post.

So there you have it.....so did you make your own dictionary to define disbelief as a belief in the opposite?


#Ihedinobi debunked....

Take an IQ test as soon as you can and try to see a psychologist or something. Why does one reject a belief? Let me rephrase, "does one not reject a belief because they believe it is not true?

How weird that anyone has to explain this to a human being, much less an adult one.

Fail....you said that disbelief in god = a belief in no god

But agnostics dont say that they believe that there is no god. They just say that they dont know. They are disbelievers because they simple do not hold a positive belief in god.

What can I say? Go and read what I said there again.

what if there is something so infinitesimal that it is smaller than matter/quarks etc but still physical?

This is the most incredible display of unintelligence you have ever made to my knowledge on this forum, Lb. I am going to frame it and hang it in my signature and marvel at the enormity of your unintelligence. I think you have a real shot at being tomorrow's Richard Dawkins.

WOW!!!!!!!! Something so small that it is no longer matter [size=32pt]BUT IT IS STILL PHYSICAL[/size]! Absolutely INCREDIBLE!!!! WOW!!!!

So matter has a size limit, ehn? Wetin person no go hear for Nairaland?

hmm? We are still making leaps in quantum science bro....

Keep strawmanning the eternal material universe with yourself.


You lost the argument when you said that the beginning of a material universe can not be material. FAIL

Wow! I said that? I know for sure that the universe owes its existence to something other than.matter, that is my argument, so I wonder how I lost the argument before even offering my counter. We're still examining your incredulous position as a materialist and I've already lost the argument?

Go find a dictionary

Is that the new Dawkinsian way of saying, "I have no clue"?

huh......God is not in the big bang equations or scientific paper.....adding God to the big bang is foolish. We do not understand the nature of the world with theology. We understand it with science

#ouch

Lol. More and more claims and nary an offer of validation! Keep screaming it, Lb. Maybe at that next decibel, it'll magically become true!

Excuse me here guys! Please what science thought you guys that the Big Bang came from nothing?


Even after one of you pointed out the existence of the Singularity as the cause of the Big Bang, you all still assumed what I don't understand.

The argument is solid.... Nothing comes from nothing. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but can change from one form to another. The same goes for energy. Matter is energy. ( E = mc2 )

The Singularity is ENERGY, the Universe is Matter. Something from something!

Even the Higgs Boson, the Large Hardron Collider at CERN built to recreate the Big Bang, does so by colliding together highly acerlarated protons and electrons. Which is something going to create something.

The big question is what caused the Singularity or where did the Singularity come from.

Now Science is yet to go beyond that. All scientific equations breaks down at that point.

Although Christians are dead wrong on the nature of their God, this does not mean the Universe may not have AN or SOME Intelligent Designers. After all, the LHC at CERN designed to recreate at a small scale, the Big Bang, HAS tons of Highly intelligent packs of scientists as the designers and controllers.

But no sane person after all would expect some uneducated old men, who didn't even know the earth, they were on was not FLAT to understand how the Universe came to be.